Gran Turismo Sport Physics Thread (Poll)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by super_gt, Aug 13, 2014.

?

Should we be able to adjust all four corners of the car separately,and tire air pressure?

  1. Yes

    188 vote(s)
    59.5%
  2. No

    13 vote(s)
    4.1%
  3. There are more important things to do for GT7

    115 vote(s)
    36.4%
  1. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    We'll have to wait until the game is released and reviewed to be sure of how it compares to the likes of AC and Pcars :p
     
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  2. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    :confused::confused:
     
  3. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    I didn't contradict myself there. GTS does look like an improvement over past GTs. Just that I'm not sure even with all that improvement it's going to be as good as PC sims.

    Ideally I'd like it to be on the same level as AC, but considering PD needs to pander to the casual crowd as well, I'd settle for 90% of AC's physics fidelity. That's where the "good enough" comment comes from.
     
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  4. super_gt

    super_gt

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    This seems close to the real world :)
     
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  5. Adam41

    Adam41 Premium

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    As I may have said already the competitors had to do a time trial in the Lotus Evora around Brands Hatch Indy on sport hards as part of their qualifying for the Nations Cup.

    I had a go the following day, I'd set a 51.8 on my 9th lap and a 51.7 on my 25th with a load of high 51s in between.

    I've just tried the same combo on GT6 and set a 51.3 on my 6th lap.

    In GTS you can accelerate out of a corner and the rear is planted. Obviously if you come out of the corner and your throttle or steering input is overly aggressive the car will break away but in GT6 the rear is more loose.

    Through the high speed corners, the issue with GT6's MR physics not being able to load up the fronts and constantly having to manage the rear slipping with small steering inputs seems to be much improved in GTS. Some of that weird slip angle to achieve faster times has been ironed out.

    The difference in physics may be up to a second difference over a longer lap but with GTS' physics still being a work in progress and this test only concerning an MR layout car, I'm sure the differences may change up to release. I thought it was at least interesting to compare and shows improvements being made.
     
  6. Saidur_Ali

    Saidur_Ali

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    How does 51.7 compare to the competitors? Did they get many laps to qualify?

    It's only combo I did laps (Think race had Sport Soft tyres though, maybe also driving aids?) on although never attempted a fast lap. Only had four clear flying laps IIRC, two were my first time playing GT SPORT so I was driving rough purposely to test how it handled and other two was in race when I was in lead so took it easy without taking any risks to avoid looking like an idiot.

    Sounds right compared to GT6, I was expecting the rear to lose grip a lot more based on what you said on day before event (Link) but it was quite reasonable which was a positive. Handling balance seems quite a bit better, the ways tyres grip and lose grip and also power delivery. Going to try GT6 later and see how it behaves and report back. Hopefully won't be too slow, was quite happy when I found out from Tidgney what track I will be racing on given it is so simple and have been quite fast on it in past regarding raw pace.

    GT Academy 2014 Rd.1 Day 1 Top 24.jpg

    Did notice on one of the races (Think it was Big Willow), someone changing tyres to Racing Softs. Not sure if that was fair but seemed well run in terms of what was inputted by staff. Come to think of it, is SRF no longer in the game as an aid? That's a positive if so. Was grid order random depending on list order or based on practice times?

    I think I mentioned to you before event hoping there will be a new direct drive GT wheel so was good to see it looks like there is going to be one. Do hope they improve FFB, with that wheel feedback should feel awesome including for other games like PCARS and Assetto Corsa.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
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  7. ynot

    ynot

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    Individual adjustments of each tire would be nice instead of just front and rear. The options they give us are enough for me but each tire seperate would be awesome.
     
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  8. GT_Alex74

    GT_Alex74

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    I think tire pressure on front and rear axles would be the minimum, which I would be satisfied with. Although the ability to setup each corner would be nice, especially for oval racing.

    Wondering if anyone who drove the stock ND MX5 on GTS can also try it on Assetto Corsa and give a comparison.
     
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  9. BrodieBoi94

    BrodieBoi94

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    I answered yes.

    PD need to get as close as possible to real life handling and tuning simulation, and with the ability to adjust each point individually, they will be one step closer.

    I hope they add more realistic values too, and the ability to change the units. I don't know firsthand kgf/mm, I have to use a unit converter to calculate.

    One more thing is tuning parts should be much more in depth. Using Forza as a comparison, you can add cams, individually and many more parts which makes tuning a car to a specific power output easier and more efficient than a power slider. (They should still have the power slider just for EVEN MORE precision when tuning).
     
  10. Adam41

    Adam41 Premium

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    The competitors had a minute or 2 free practice whilst others were getting set up, then had 10 minutes to set a lap. Most guys were doing high 52s, some mid 52s and the Japanese guys set low 52s, the best being a 52.1.

    Your race had ASM forced on. Driving aids (braking or braking and steering, which has replaced SRF) were optional as was the transmission and TC.

    My comments today were regarding on throttle car behaviour. I actually only experiencing the lift off oversteer with the 458 GT3, may have also been because I touched the kerb slightly.

    Everyone should have been on racing softs with the race cars (some people just did what they wanted and entered the track :)).

    Grid order was strange. I thought pole was who got furtherest round the lap in free practice whilst others were being set up. But in the the US v Japan v UK race, I overtook @Tidgney in free practice whilst he was messing with his wheel or something, and he started on pole and I started 6th! So I think it was random.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
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  11. Saidur_Ali

    Saidur_Ali

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    If only they let you compete as well, UK would have had really high chance of winning then on home turf. At least you got to experience winning feeling in Olympic venue with Tom commentating against some of the best drivers. Do you know if the winners get to keep the massive trophies at all?

    Thought something like that was on, would explain why car felt slow even with better tyres compared to when I had a quick go earlier. Good that they got rid of that magic force.

    Just got worried a bit if it will be too much like GT6 but like you said earlier, seems like some of that weird slip angle approach might be a thing of the past. I hope so anyway, didn't try using handbrake.

    I guess that explains why it didn't look a performance advantage then regarding tyres.

    I started second which made sense but then I noticed first person was different than order in practice. Just had a look back on photos and seems it's based on member list order so based on who joins first I assume. I guess I was lucky to start in correct position then, starting 16th would have made it really hard to win on such a short race and more likely to be involved in crashes.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2016
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  12. Tidgney

    Tidgney Premium

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    I think the grid order on the tournament was based on pod number where as the 2nd day it was random (I assume that's a session setting)?
     
  13. Adam41

    Adam41 Premium

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    I don't think @Tidgney entered the session first so doesn't explain his pole. I genuinely think it was random.

    They got to keep the trophies. One of the PR guys was trying to sort the logistics out for one of them to take it back to Spain.
     
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  14. Saidur_Ali

    Saidur_Ali

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    It was whatever order the member list showed before entering free practice from what I've seen. That might be random then but think logic would be if it is based on who joined first but didn't see that part of process so won't know.

    That's quite awesome for the winners then, seemed whoever kept it on track the best won. :lol:
     
  15. mister dog

    mister dog (Banned)

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    So apparently he left on stabilty control, but even still riding those kerbs like that and 2 wheels on the grass a lot of times without any consequence?
     
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  16. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    Not just the curbs but two wheels up on the grass more than once. Like this, at 130 mph in a very high speed corner and off throttle to boot:
    upload_2016-5-22_18-47-48.png

    Hopefully it's just the stability assist at work here.:eek:
     
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  17. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    Interesting comparison with GT6 stock Evora setup.

    I drove my Evora replica ( Full option/fuel weight + 6 speed manual corrected ratios ), 277HP / 1431kg with 39/61 weight distribution ( ballast at pos 43 ) as in real car, Brands Hatch Indy, with SH tire, managed 52.7xxx in 1st lap with cold tires. GT6 is a bit too fast if GTS Evora is the same as stock GT6 Evora with much less weight than my replica ( 100+kg difference )

    Surprisingly, the Evora replica I built is planted considering it has 61% at the rear. If you are interested to drive Evora build with real life specs as close as possible including alignment, give this a try and see if there's much difference to GTS Evora :

    Brands Hatch Indy test : Evora Base Full Option spec, 454PP, 277HP 1431kg, 39/61 split, ballast at position 43, close ratio 6 speed manual corrected box, TRD LSD/Base. Suspension : 250/400, Lotus Optimum Alignment :
    Ride Height: 125 125
    Spring Rate: 4.46 7.14
    Dampers (Compression): 4 4
    Dampers (Extension): 5 3
    Anti-Roll Bars: 5 3
    Camber Angle: 0.3 1.6
    Toe Angle: 0.00 0.18

    SH tire, 52.7s 1st lap cold tires. Time 13.00, grip real, no ABS or other assist, 4/4 brake balance ( nicely balanced handling even with 61% rear weight )
    I would be interested too, to know if the bolded part of your post happens to the setup I used above. I'm using stick controller, so a wheel should give different feedback :)
     
  18. SkyBreaker

    SkyBreaker

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    Is there any word on the clutch? It was terribly implemented in GT5/6.
     
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  19. Adam41

    Adam41 Premium

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    @Ridox2JZGTE that setup just made the issues with MR cars worse, probably because of the stiffer suspension and more rearward weight distribution.

    Through the fast left right before the last corner, you can stay flat but you're constantly managing the rear and you get that weird slip angle going on. In GTS you could take that flat out, turning in, loading up the front tyres and having confidence in the rear it wasn't going to slide away.

    Of course if you let off the throttle, you would then expect the rear to break loose. And I think an element of that was missing in the GTS physics.
     
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  20. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    The fast left right, I entered with half throttle for split second and flat out, did it by instinct. The rear stays planted in that way ( I'm using stick btw ), and I'm thinking it's the way I setup the damper/ARB to stabilize the car due to the heavy rear. If you increase the rear extension to 4, it will be more eager to rotate, responsive to steering/direction change. Reduce rear extension to 2, and it will be lazier.

    The LSD is also a factor, the real Evora has open rear diff ( but also aided by EDL - Electronic Differential Lock from 2010 MY onwards as part of DPM stability control system implementation, EDL is a stability control aid that reduce engine power sent to the inside wheel using the brakes, avoiding wheel spin - this can be switched off, Assetto Corsa do not allow this to be turned off which is inaccurate ), maybe 5/5/5 LSD would make it interesting on the left/right esses, though may not help much with MR quirks in GT6.

    I tried the left/right flat out, and the rear did slip, more likely from the weight transfer physic and tire model issue.

    Thank you for giving time to try the setup :) GT6 MR and RR cars are very touchy. The rear spring on the setup is actually softer than the stock setup that came with the car :) Stock rear spring is 7.79 kg/mm with even softer front spring 4.08 kg/mm.

    I can only hope at least in GTS, stock alignment ( camber/toe ) will be based on real car spec from factory for road cars, not just one value fits all with crazy big toe in like in GT6.

    Forgot to mention, the Evora was tuned on comfort soft originally :)
     
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  21. super_gt

    super_gt

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    First of all I want to apologize for this post.



    I want to bet with you that there will be no tire air pressure tuning/simulation in GT Sport.
    If there is tire air pressure in GT Sport and I lose feel free to ban me.If there is no tire air pressure in GT Sport and I win I do not want nothing,it is a win/win situation for you.
    Will you take this bet?
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2016
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  22. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Given that's not me driving I'm not exactly sure what relevance it has to me and what I experienced?

    First that's not the same build I played (its from the previous day), you have no idea what aids were used in that and it also shows going off track causing an accident (and the resulting rubbish collision physics).


    Why on earth would I take a bet on something I have never claimed would be in GTS and have consistently complained about being missing from the series?

    I seriously suggest that you take a step back and actually think about what your posting in a measured and constructive manner, as you posting habits of the last few days have not been acceptable.