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Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 4' started by El Gigante, Jun 3, 2005.
i finally did it
i know the majority of you have already passed the GTWC but im so happy
its only taking me like a year of learining faster driving techniques and the like!
oh for the record, i used untuned minolta with mainly R2s on front R1s on back, sometimes R3s on front for the shorter race(s)(which helped a LOT)
I am having a go at this in these days with the AMG Mercedes Race car 98', but it only seems to catch up on the straights. I doesn't handle as well as the others it seems.
How do I win the Minolta, as that seems to be the ultimate car for the championship?
El Capitan 200 Miles race in the Endurance Hall.
Piece-of-cake race in a stock road car such as a Mazda RX-7 or Honda NSX on Sports Medium tyres.
You win 250,000Cr and the Toyota 88C-V Minolta Race Car.
Then follow instructions about tyres and pitting in this thread, or one of the others that're linked to within here.
Drive smoothly and cleanly, and DO NOT fit a Stage 4 turbo and expect it to help!
I don't know if they will be of any help (or even any interest) but here are my notes from this series:
Gran Turismo World Championship
Championship Race Series
International A Licence Required
Prize Money: 25,500cr/race, 250,000cr/series
Prize Car: Ford GT LM Race Car Spec II ‘04 (Value 212,499cr)
Tokyo R246 (10 laps) (Grid)
Twin Ring Motegi Super Speedway (21 Laps) (Rolling)
Hong Kong (18 laps) (Rolling)
Seoul Central Reverse (19 laps) (Rolling)
El Capitan (ll laps) (Grid)
New York (15 laps) (Rolling)
Opera Paris Reverse (18 laps) (Rolling)
Suzuka (9 Laps) (Grid)
Grand Valley Speedway Reverse (11 laps) (Grid)
Circuit de la Sarthe I (4 laps) (Rolling)
I have only done this series once before. My notes show I used a Minolta and B-Specced a lot of the races after qualifying. The opposition seems formidable and this is just the sort of racing I don’t like (very high powered race cars).
Try it in the CLK-GTR and see what happens.
Grid: Jaguar XJR-9 Race Car ’88, Mazda 787B Race Car ’91, Sauber Mercedes C9 Race Car ’89, Playstation Pescarolo Courage C60 race Car ’04, Minolta Toyota 88C-V Race Car ’89
At Tokyo R246, poled by 2 seconds with 1’26.979. Terrible race that I aborted on lap 2 after I got barged out of the way and then spun the car. My reflexes just aren’t up to this kind of frantic driving on a grainy pictured TV. The grid was 186 A-Spec, not that that matters.
Try again versus grid of:
Playstation Pescarolo Courage C60 race Car ’04, Mazda 787B Race Car ’91, Nissan R92CP Race Car ’92, Audi R8 Race Car ’01, Minolta Toyota 88C-V Race Car ’89
A-Spec would have been 174 but the CLK-GTR has serious rear tyre wear issues and I span out on near-reds on lap 8. Pitted and switched tyres to R3/R2 which seems to work okay but finished last. The car has bad handling characteristics that do not synchronise with my style. It has snap oversteer braking into corners and has mid-corner to exit understeer.
Moved on to Super Speedway and got utterly panned. The CLK-GTR snap oversteers and then slides whenever you brake for a corner. Awful. Spend a couple of nights spannering it and got it to handle better but it is still not a winner I’m sad to say.
[Notes from much later] I've subsequently learned quite a bit about how to moderate the characteristics displayed by the Merc and may well be tempted to have another go at this at some point[end notes addendum]
Switch to the BWM McLaren F1 GTR Race Car ’97.
Grid: Minolta Toyota 88C-V Race Car ’89, Gillet Vertigo Race Car ’04, Nissan R92CP Race Car ’92, Nissan R89C Race Car ’89, AMG Mercedes CLK-GTR Race Car ’98
Running on R3’s with power cranked up with a Turbo 3 to 723HP, managed to take pole from the R92CP. I’ll run a One Pit Strategy rather than a zero pit and stick with my R3 tyres. The start will be tricky as I reckon I’ll spool up the rears with so much power. I thought I was in trouble when 200 A-Spec came up but I managed to hold the lead off the line. Lost it during lap 6 as the R92 just kept getting faster and faster (I did too but he was doing better . BL 1’26.427. I pitted and switched to R4’s. Came out in 6th place but on lap 7 everyone pitted it seems, except the Vertigo, which held up the R92 when he came out of the pits and allowed me to catch up and pass him. BL on R4’s was 1’25.249 MOV = 3.502 seconds.
Twin Ring Motegi Super Speedway
I drive this track very poorly indeed, which is a bit embarassing as it only has two corners, The AI seem to go fast here too so I’m expecting trouble. I get it. The best I can qualify is 4th. The three Mega-Nippon cars are just too fast for me. Even running R4’a and raising the rear ride height I can’t take the corners as fast as them. Run the race and expect to swear a lot. The big three pit early and I breifly think I have a chance but I persist too long on my reddening tyres and spin out. I haven’t saved the series so I’ll have to swallow the loss and move on I think. Or abandon the series and start again … that’ll be tomorrow tho’ (got to allow time for my blood to cool ROFL).
Did the restart. Took R246 again with about the same performance and tactics. This time at Motegi, try for a different strategy. Run on Super Hards and don’t pit. That didn’t work. Finished a lap down in 4th. I expected them to pit twice and they didn’t. I watched the AI run on the replay and they were taking the bend into the S/F straight at 160mph compared to my 140mph and were 10mph faster than me on maximum speed. No wonder I can’t keep up. I recognise that I will never be able to beat them here and move on.
Pole with 1’14.837 (up 2 seconds). I think if I want to pit only once here I’d better use a harder compound on the rear. Run R3/R2. Got punted into the hairpin on lap one and never recovered. Perhaps need to try a higher TCS here to counteract the spin-cycle factor.
Restarted the PS2, spannered the suspension and drivetrain and got my qualifying time into the 1’12’s.
Damper B: 5/4
Damper R: 9/8
Gears: Tranny Trick then Final 3.000
BL 1’12.069 MOV 7.550 seconds.
Seoul Central Reverse
Will this be a nightmare? Qualify with 1’51.977, up a mere 0.145 seconds. I smell defeat in the air here. I’ve saved at the start of this so I can try again if it all goes horribly wrong. BL 51.902 MOV Huge. Essentially, the gap to second place stayed between 2 and 4 seconds for quite a few laps. I realised that I probably wouldn’t have to pit if I took it steady and was amazed that all the AI did pit. That made for an easy win.
Oh dear! The car handles terribly here. The bumps and dips drive her crazy and she swaps ends at every provocation. Tried everything I could to make it work and everything failed. Dampers, Springs, Ride Height, Stabalisers … nothing made it handle once you were going at a competitive pace. Did the insane thing of stiffening the rear stabs and softening the front whilst increasing rear ride height. Better – not fabulous but it’ll do. Clicked up the rear downforce a touch too. Didn’t note the time but I made pole by a couple of seconds. Didn’t work in the race; span out twice on lap two trying to catch the AI after they charged away from the start.
Try a different set-up strategy, running R3’s all round. Poled with 1’32.562 (up 7.294 seconds) with no drama except for some unanticipated understeer.
Damper B: 4/3
Damper R: 6/8
Gears: Tranny Trick then Final 3.000
Try R3/R2’s and was 8 tenths slower and a lot less friendly to drive. I’m not seeing the ASM activate but it must be doing something as she’s still lots better than before. Running with +16 Weight Balance gets 1’31.221, altho’ she’s still a bit hairy in the corners. Try the race with ASM on (I’m not too proud to admit it helps (tho’ it does hurt to say it!)). BL 1’29.718 after a pit stop on lap 6 to switch tyres to R3/R3. MOV was monumental. I’ll never scorn ASM again as I got overtaken and spun-out by the Big Three on Turn 1 and was in last place by quite a way once I got my self turned in the right direction again. Before the end of the lap I was in P2 again and P1 shortly after . I’ve a feeling the TCS had a lot to do with it as it was flickering an awful lot here.
Anyhow, 200 A-Spec in the bag.
Running with set-up A, poled with 1’27.047 (up 2.824 seconds). The back end is very skittish so try a few amendments. TCS up to 5, rear downforce maxed at 53, weight balance +16. Didn’t help much as it made her a touch pendulum-like. Keep the higher TCS and try reducing the LSD D to 20. Commit to the race and pray. That nearly proved very costly. The low LSD D didn’t have the effect I anticipated and made her a swap-ends monster at Madison Square Gardens. Tried to go the distance on one set of tyres to make it up. Took the lead when the AI pitted but realised I wasn’t going to make it – switched to R4’s for the last three laps and got BL 1’24.326 MOV 4.558 seconds.
Opera Paris Reverse
Put the LSD D back to 40 before I forget. Running Set A the car is terrible again. It snap oversteers when braking for corners or if you turn too sharply and understeers on the way out. I got 1’22.628 for second on the grid (0.6 seconds down). Try Set B. Took pole with a cautious 1’20.413 (up 1.419 seconds). The car still reacts badly to all the ruts and bumps but it’s much better. Raise the Ride Height to 80mm and see of it helps. Couldn’t hold off the Big Three and got punted into the barriers. Restart. Poled with 1’17.287 (up 4.322 seconds). BL 1’14.401 MOV Monumental (the R92CP pitted twice!).
Try Set A for qualifying. Nope – nightmare oversteer and loss of traction booting it out of the corners. Tweak rear downforce back to maximum. Drop LSD D to 30, Rear Brakes to 4 and fit R3’s to rear. Poled with a dreadful 1’53.024 (had two off-track excursions) (up 0.6 seconds). The problem now is understeer. Drop the rears back to R2’s and drop LSD A to 30. No good – still get slidey back end and understeer in the same corner. Most frustrating. Run Set B. Still bad as you can feel the ASM gathering up the car as it want’s to flip around and slide. Poled with 1’51.487 (up 2.128 seconds). Run the race and pray I don’t crash. Well that didn’t help … punted off at Turn 1. Restart. Ran Set A with the ASM turned on. Poled 1’49.063 (up 5.233 seconds). Tried to go the distance on one set of tyres; didn’t work as the rear end lifted into the Spoon and I just ran straight off the track with steering and brakes utterly ignored. Try her on R4’s with a lap 5 pit. Poled 1’47.622 (up 5.993 seconds). Oops, only 187 A-Spec. Leave it for now as my blood is at boiling point.
Back to the attack. Qualify on R3’s using Set A altered to increase rear downforce to 50 and the LSD to 10/30/30. Poled with 1’49.675 (up 3.940 seconds). Bl 1’47.417 MOV 5.757 seconds after a last lap excursion and scare! The cars handling is very strange indeed and I can’t make up my mind what’s causing it’s large variability in steering and braking response.
Grand Valley Speedway Reverse
Using the same set-up as above, poled with 1’40.037 (up 9.819 seconds). I’m planning a lap 6 pit, let’s see if the rear tyres last that long. BL 1’39.595 MOV 3.399 seconds. Had a bad scare on lap 6 as the AI bashed me off into the sand on the last corner and left me in last place and having to pit. Fought my way back to the front and took the win.
Circuit de la Sarthe I
My nemesis, in a car I know will be a nightmare here, with its predilection for braking oversteer and high speed corner understeer. Obviously I’m going to need to pit – will R3’s make it on the rear? Poled with 3’32.686 by only 0.490 seconds. My gearbox is too short but I’m thinking that maybe the tyres will last all the way. Reduce Final Drive to 2.760 and rear brakes to 3. Raise the Ride height 5mm to 75. Here we go, get ready for a wild ride ... yep, punted off at the second corner across Blackpool Beach and into the barriers (the AI are MUCH faster). Reset. Adjust Final Drive down to 2.670. Poled with 3’30.299 (up 2.156 seconds) but the cars handling is scary (and the AI speed down the back straights is also nasty, tho’ I seem to have them beat down the Mulsanne). BL 3’30.867 MOV monumental. The Big Three all pitted at the end of lap 3 and left me free and clear. Had a couple of twitchy moments on the final corners with nearly-red tyres at the end of the race but she held together and conquered.
The McLaren F1 GTR clearly needs a session in the Spannering Club to try and correct her handling peculiarities but she is obviously fast enough for the job, even against the best of the AI opposition. The only place she failed was Super Speedway and that may be more due to the driver than the car.
Anyhow, 200 A-Spec except for the aforementioned Super Speedway race.
Reran that race a number of times before finally submitting and using the Black 787B (R2 tyres and 171KG Ballast gave 200 A-Spec). I only won tho’ because the R92CP seemed to have an incident and lose it, thus allowing me to get in front of him and finally hold the lead once the Minolta pitted out of my way. Watching the replay, he ran smack into the end of the pit-lane wall and then proceeded to muck up attempts to pit on the subsequent lap or so ROFL. My BL was 0’30.660 with TRT of 11’01.897 MOV 13 seconds over the R92CP, despite all his disasters mid-race.
Ok, thanks for all help!
I sat my Mercedes 190 Touring car on the mission on B-spec around Capitan for now. Great to both reorganize my room and race at the same time. Guess I'll jump in for some laps later on. Looking forward to recieving the Minolta
I did it! I had trouble with Hong Kong. I got to race 3 (Hong Kong) and was at a 10+ second deficit. This happened twice so I reloaded the game both times and dropped out of the Championship (so my win ratio would stay at 100%). I practiced my driving line about a week, won Hong Kong by 5 seconds. Won all 10 Championship races.
sweet! good for you
I finished about three day ago I guess. I was really easy cause I had the polyphony digital formula one
a couple times I lapped like almost every single car
The pitting strategy suggested by Famine really helps. I never had trouble in GT3 so I never had to worry about strategic pitting. Cars running reds in GT3 were still driveable, not in GT4 as I have learned.
Uh . . . Why? Its just a number that overall means nothing.
Your win ratio could be 40%, and you can still complete 100% of the game.
It just means that you lost a few moreraces . . . well at 40% they lost a lot of races, but at least they know how good of a racer they are.
I just finished the GTWC in a Chaparral 2J. Was really surprised that most of the races are walkovers. Maybe it's the car. Route 246 was very tough, tho. And Super Speedway & Sarthe were impossible. The rest of the races i'd rate anywhere from a 2 to a 4 out of 10 so far as difficulty goes.
I wanna come back & do the GTWC over in a different car, eventually. I think the 2J does those tighter courses much better than an LMP does...maybe that's why i found Hong Kong, Seoul, New York, and Paris so easy.
Hardly surprising. Or exciting.
yeah...but on the test course I got completely wooped
my top speed was a lot slower...even with the draft.
Yep, Formula cars are not known for their speed.
Their cornering on the other hand is simply amazing.
What is the relevance of this to the GTWC anyway?
There is no Test Course race in GTWC.
(You need to adjust the downforce, i.e. set it to minimum for the Test Course as you don't really need it to take 2 long flat-out bends, and lengthen the transmission a little so you're just above the red line in top gear when going all out, with a little in reserve for drafting.)
I guess I got confused with another extreme event, my bad
We all make mistakes. I make at least one a day here at GTP. Well, okay...one a week.
Shouldn't that be one every post?
Heh, just kidding.....
"When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me." I never said I wouldn't have 100% completion if my win% wasn't 100. I don't like losing races (who does) and if I can do something to keep my win% at 100, I'm gonna do it.
Yeah, but don't you start getting bored if you win all the time? Be honest. What is it like to never lose?
When you win win win all the time, it's like it doesn't mean anything because to keep yourself with a 100% ratio, it means you'll need to
1. Overkill wherever you can, rather than race competitively
2. "sugar-coat" your wins. If you're racing and realize you're gonna lose (and i am going to assume it has happened to you like it has the rest of us since none of us are God), this means you'll safely restart your game, like mommy coming to the rescue.
Am i right?
I think what the chaps are trying to say, Dnt is that whilst maintaining a 100% Win Ratio can be a self-imposed goal like any other in the game, noone who knows the game is ever going to think that it was achieved any other way than Save-Reset.
Mind you, a friend of mine over at GTBN did achieve 100% Completion, 100% Win Ratio and 100,000 A-Spec by the auspices of running two games. He'd do all his testing and tuning on one game and then run the races on the other.
For myself, I used to have a near 100% Win Ration (97% or so) until I started 200 A-Spec runs and tuning my cars 'in race' rather than 'Free Run'. It did bother me at first to see it plummet down to the mid 50's but then I realised it didn't matter. Even if it wasn't for the fact that it's just a game (to use that phrase that always grates ) it really is not a gauge of a drivers skill.
Interesting quote. There were no assumptions made in my post. I was merely asking a question on this statement that you made:
And my question was . . . Why?
You are right though, no one likes to lose. Myself included. Ill admit that I did the same thing in GT 1 and probably 2. But in the end, it really didnt mean anything.
I was still able to complete the game, even with a couple losses tied to my belt.
If anything, the losses encouraged me to work on my lines and suspension tuning skills instead of strapping on a large turbo and overpowering the competition.
(Just as a note: Im NOT accusing you of this)
My win ratio is like 30% (completion is also about 30%) or something crappy, because I mess around a lot and quit loads of races. The GT world championship, on the other hand, is piss easy for me, because I'm a good driver. Not GTP leaderboard good, but still pretty good. Forget GT world championship, I can win every race in the F1 championship in a (stock) Sauber C9, not by seconds but by laps (with the exception of Tokyo R246 which I won by around 30 seconds). On medium tyres, I run in the 1:17s at monaco.
I did all gold licenses, and then went to beat all the demo runs (e.g. the demo car at Infineon raceway S-license test in the Audi R8 is something like 2.5 seconds inside the gold time). That's a good way to practice. There's no point being obsessed with winning races, the racing isn't that much fun in this game anyway, the most fun thing is the driving.
I so very much concur with that last sentence. What keeps me playing GT is how the driving 'feels'.
Despite the bad AI, despite the flawed physics, despite the pro-Japanese-anti-European bias it's just great fun to jump in something like an E-Type and take it to the Nurburgring for a few laps just because I want to .
To be honest, it feels pretty damn good. Not all races are 200 A-spec rewards but certainly nowhere near 1 pointers.
I don't overkill. If I did I certainly wouldn't be losing don't you think so?
As for your numero dos, yes, I do restart if I lose. Don't try to put me down just because you don't agree with the way I play my game.
And I know that, it's just for personal satisfaction like I said.
That's pretty extreme, I don't fully tune my cars for different tracks, mostly just spring rates and auto gear settings.
For personal satisfaction. I'm not looking forward to ever publishing my 100% win ratio game save.
A close second is all the encouraging I need.
Nobody's putting you down, DntMssWthTx. I was just trying to figure out what goes thru your mind as you game, that's all. As you gathered, i would be incredibly bored if i won all the time.
Gotcha, your statement just came off as if you thought less of me for restarting my game when I lose.
For me restarting is the same as losing. The only difference is that you hide the loss from others by not adding it to your stats. You can't hide the loss from yourself, though.
Nothing wrong with losing btw. It only means that you challenged yourself.
Those who cant finish the GTWC, here is the tip:
1. just use normal tires for minolta race car ( as it is very hard to control with hard tires )
2. Win a FGT in Nurburgring 24 hours endurance race
3. 1 last tip for the first one ( first tip ) just race the track until the tire wear goes red, then that time you can go to the pits. ( dont worry. if u go pit very early, it will be better because the AI cars will pit later and u can catch up with them