- 1,851
- GTP_karlos
for gt6 possibly, i agree. But gt5 the sound won't bother me too, too much.
GT5 Sound Thread
- Thread starter Marry_Me_GT
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shirakawaa
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I tried to capture the sound of my father's motorbike for him (he was interested to hear how it sounded with different exhaust parts) but failed miserably. He wasn't impressed! Which is a shame, because he would have been if he were stood where I was. (There's no way I'm riding that thing, 700-ish pounds of 70's production tech. 
)
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- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
LOL! that takes some doing
Seriously though, it seems we will be getting the acceptable if not inspiring Prologue-like sounds for GT5. They need to start the sound recording processes from scratch for GT6 me thinks.
I dunno the clips I posted are a step above Prologue, better than any GT game yet, and sound like the real things. Well recording of the real things, which never quite compare to the real sound waves of actually standing besides the car off course.
People don't seem to think their everyday cars sound pretty bland, but they do..
Just compare to GT5 clips above
IS-F
370z
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shirakawaa
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Absolutely not related with what you wrote, but if you've seen my video (possibly at 480p to get the full sound quality) you also get to gear all other sounds that can be heard from inside the car in addition to the engine tone. That's something I mentioned a few pages ago that would help bring more life to GT5 internal/"bumper" (which are really a substitute of the internal view rather than external cameras) views.
When passing over road imperfections in GT you can usually never hear anything in particular, while with real cars (especially light econoboxes like mine) you can hear them "take the blow".
Or for example when braking hard in real life you can hear the ABS doing its work, the brake pedal making some hydraulic noises when released, car keys slamming around under "heavy G", etc., etc.
Sorry, just realized once again how many aspects are lacking from GT sounds
Even the 1.3 turbodiesel engine of my van in the video has some rumble and growl unheard in GT5 videos.
We'll see in the final build if PD sound engineers will have finally nailed how car sound and what makes noise/sound.
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- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
Even if they mixed all those things in you'd wouldn't really notice it too well due to the masking effect of the broad band road and wind noise, plus the engine off course. You'd have to make them much louder than they sound in real life to discern them
That's the difference between real sound vibrations and the mid range hogging samples.
The GTR Evo F3000 sound bank and tons of little noises, hence the 50 meg size, but I never notice any of it
That's the difference between real sound vibrations and the mid range hogging samples.
The GTR Evo F3000 sound bank and tons of little noises, hence the 50 meg size, but I never notice any of it
shirakawaa
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Well, I am sure I can hear those noises in that video as I remember I could in real life in my car when I recorded it. However, it's true that my car has got a relatively silent stock engine.
On a loud racing car like the GTR Evo F3000 you mentioned, you would probably mostly hear only the engine and the exhaust note.
In GT however there are many relatively silent road cars, so PD sound engineers should consider for them those noises I'm referring about to increase realism.
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- Revelation1115
the viper tuned had the best sound imo
- 676
- Toronto, CAN
- Guynemer27
Sad to say but the game with THIS sound is not yet done, maybe the next generation or the one after that - when you hear this Le Mans recording with good speakers, you can hear by yourself that we are still VERY FAR from the ultimate sound! ;-) Enjoy this pure bliss!
http://ngrignon.free.fr/motor.mp3
http://ngrignon.free.fr/motor.mp3
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- Guynemer27
Indeed... ;-)
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- CoolColJ, GTP_CoolColJ
Still luxury items IMO. Maybe for the PS4 gen.
I think a proper, loud, rough and bassy road and tyre noise is a higher priority addition that will help fill out the soundscape and add realism. Along with more wind buffeting. That's the most prominent thing I hear in any car at any speed
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I'm still convinced sounds like this are possible in games, but the game industry has been so focused on graphics for the latest years that we now have to drive beautiful cars which don't really sound like cars at all.
Just check out some of the sound mods on recent games. And not just talking racing games, but all across the board.
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I agree that with this generation developers could achieve better more realistic sound effects, but they need to focus more on sound, sound is not their priority at all.
look for example at 7.1 ps3 sound, one of the few 7.1 soundtrack games that satisfies me is Killzone 2, very few other ps3 games use the 7.1 properly which is disappointing. (actually the majority of 7.1 ps3 games just remux the existing 5.1 sound and output a fake 7.1 soundtrack, which is more or less pointless because any decent amplifier could do this properly, unlike Killzone 2 where the developers developed a real 7.1 sound engine, you could hear enemies approching from all directions incredible ! I coulod even turn around and shoot an enemy and hit him without even seeing him ! YES the 7.1 sound in killzone 2 is that incredible, improves gameplay and add to realism !
for GT5 prologue the 7.1 sound is more a remux of the 5.1 sound which in itself is not very satisfying, Hopefully sound engineers at polyphony raised the bar with the final GT5 sound engine...I am optimistic LOL
unfortunately even in reviews, reviewers arent considering the quality of sounds in video games a la movie reviews...and this demotivate developers to focus on sound, because developing an incredible 7.1 sound engine like in killzone 2 wont be even mentioned by reviewers, wont affect score reviews, metacritic scores, shipped copies of the game...etc
look for example at 7.1 ps3 sound, one of the few 7.1 soundtrack games that satisfies me is Killzone 2, very few other ps3 games use the 7.1 properly which is disappointing. (actually the majority of 7.1 ps3 games just remux the existing 5.1 sound and output a fake 7.1 soundtrack, which is more or less pointless because any decent amplifier could do this properly, unlike Killzone 2 where the developers developed a real 7.1 sound engine, you could hear enemies approching from all directions incredible ! I coulod even turn around and shoot an enemy and hit him without even seeing him ! YES the 7.1 sound in killzone 2 is that incredible, improves gameplay and add to realism !
for GT5 prologue the 7.1 sound is more a remux of the 5.1 sound which in itself is not very satisfying, Hopefully sound engineers at polyphony raised the bar with the final GT5 sound engine...I am optimistic LOL
unfortunately even in reviews, reviewers arent considering the quality of sounds in video games a la movie reviews...and this demotivate developers to focus on sound, because developing an incredible 7.1 sound engine like in killzone 2 wont be even mentioned by reviewers, wont affect score reviews, metacritic scores, shipped copies of the game...etc
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Buffeting would be nice; we already have a thick wind noise in Prologue - that first appeared in GT3, and doubled as a slipstream aid. Perhaps not totally realistic, as is, but wind seems to have been implemented in GT5, and windscreen wipers visibly "buffeted" in the wind in GT4, so it's possible we might get wind-specific effects, too. The tyre noise might well be improved, since, as I've said before, they apparently got into the micro-scale physics of the interaction between the tyre and the surface, so that the smoke production would look realistic.
Seems like a bit of effort just for a visual effect that could easily be faked (GRiD; NFS); we could probably assume that this investigation was also used for the tyre (grip) model, and possibly for revamping the tyre sounds (including the squeal and scrub sounds), since it has been proven that for contact sounds like this, we need only know of the material properties and the contact characteristics versus time, as a satisfactory approximation. The only tricky thing about tyres is knowing the local conditions at the contact patch, hence properties, and the actual contact as well, since it has a tendency to deform and exhibits different hystereses - but this is all important for grip modeling, too.
I think GT had some of the best 5.1 sound on the PS2, and I was disappointed by other games that didn't use it properly. Maybe we'll see GT up it's game for 7.1 (although, I personally don't use it - I only have 5.1 and headphones).
It is a shame that reviewers don't really concentrate on the product, rather how the think we will perceive it: i.e., graphics first, all else thereafter
If they spent more time on sound, we (the general game-playing public) probably would too!
One thing I'm confused by is this "remux" you speak of; do you mean it seems like they mix to 5.1, then take that mix and redistribute the front and rear pairs to the middle pair? That really is backward, when it's just as easy (once you factor in balancing the "remux") to enlarge the mixing matrices and accommodate 7.1 natively - unless it's all done by hand :scary:
Then again, going from five channel to seven channel (the sub is inconsequential) requires a substantial increase in processor time for mixing alone.
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I dont remember what they call it (I think upmixing, which is remixing by adding simulated channels), but I believe most 7.1 soundtrack ps3 games do what most 7.1 amplifiers do when you enter 5.1 soundtrack and you want a simulation of a real 7.1 soundtrack :
lets suppose you play a game or a movie having only a 5.1 soundtrack, but you possess a 7.1 installation and amplifier in your home (like me), you generally got 3 options :
1/ play only the 5.1 sound (it means the 2 additional right and left rear speakers wont produce any sound)
2/ play only the 5.1 sound but automatically the 2 additional rear speakers will replicate and play exactly what the surround speakers already are playing. it is a lot more immersive than the first option, but you still got only 5.1 soundtrack.
3/ the amplifier recreate a fake 7.1 soundtrack, by using for example the dolbly prologic IIx codec, what this do is simply taking the sound information produced by the 5.1 surround channels and recreate from this a new additional 2 channels simulating a 7.1 sound.
I believe most 7.1 ps3 games are just unfortunately doing this (the third option which is already availaible in most 7.1 amplifiers), this means less work for the sound engineers, and less processing power demanded from the CELL.
what instead, I believe, killzone 2 do (or even motorstorm) is a real 7.1 sound, new sound information is being created by the sound engine (sound of enemies approaching from behind for example or a car approching from behind which you cant hear using only the 5.1 soundtrack) and being transmitted to the additional rear speakers, not just a reworking of the information already produced by the surround speakers, not a fake 7.1 sound but a real 7.1 sound.
I Think even the 7.1 GT5 prologue sound is just doing the third option, no new information is created by the sound engine (less processing power, less work for polyphony), Maybe I am wrong, but even if I am wrong it is clear for my ears that the 7.1 sound in GT5 prologue sounds like a fake one (like the second option), very similar to the 5.1 sound, no new worthy sound information is created.
hopefully this will change with GT5.
this is a link for the dolby pro logic IIx technology :
http://www.dolby.com/professional/technology/pc/dolby-pro-logic-IIx.html
I have no idea how ps3 developers are faking 7.1 soundtracks (but I am sure most are simply faking it or doing it badly, thats what my ears tell me), have they licensed the dolby pro logic IIx technology ? (doubtful, no logo behind the disks cover) or are they emulating what dolby prologic IIx do (probable) ? or maybe us players are being fouled into thinking we have a 7.1 soundtrack but actually developers are just sending us 5.1 soundtracks replicating the 2 additional rear speakers, like the second option I described...
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Thanks for explaining, and sorry for quoting "remux" continually - I should have realised it was more likely to be remix... But mux (multiplexing) and demux are actual terms used in signal processing, so I wasn't sure!
Options 1 and 2 are obviously unacceptable, really: unbalanced power in the system, or too much distortion of the original sound scape.
Option 3 is sensible (not everybody has a good, general purpose entertainment-type audio amplifier), but it seems it has its shortcomings, judging by what you've said.
Anyway, I think it unlikely that the PS3 games have licensed the Dolby method - it seems almost trivially simple to construct the middle speakers' signals from the front and rear pairs, although phase is an issue (as it is in any surround setup, owing to the inconsistent distances between speakers from setup to setup) but some phase correction (e.g. a delay line per speaker) is probably already being used for multichannel audio in games anyway. What the problem is here, perhaps, is that the phase correction is performed on the fully constructed signals, and the "averages" used for the whole soundscape - thus sounds in completely different locations in the scene will be adjusted in exactly the same way, for phase and volume, so probably will sound a bit weird.
In a game, it's actually not that difficult to add the extra pair: instead of only one volume, nowadays sounds in games have one volume per "speaker" (real or virtual, for down-mixing to stereo, for example) - so five in the case of 5.1 and seven for 7.1, automatically calculated according to relative positions. As such, it's probably fine to just assume the game will run in 7.1 and optimise accordingly. These volumes are applied after the phase correction for the speaker geometry in use, which is added onto the phase correction for the sound's position in the game world, so that every sound is in the correct position in every speaker.
The only problem, as you say, is what the processing cost is for phase-correcting and mixing seven channels in real-time for each and every sound source in the game. Seemingly, then, Killzone 2 either uses some cool tricks (thanks to the open-format of sound processing on the PS3), or it was simply decided the "extra" power would be allocated to the sound.
Either way, it may not have gone un-noticed by other developers if it's as good as you say it is. That's probably good news for us.
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so now we got our confirmation from kazunori himself that the sounds of engines have been improved for GT5.
does he mean since the latest Gamescom demao ? GT5 prologue ? or since GT4 ?
I hope we are gonna get some proper sound recording for GT5 demo videos on TGS.
does he mean since the latest Gamescom demao ? GT5 prologue ? or since GT4 ?
I hope we are gonna get some proper sound recording for GT5 demo videos on TGS.
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- 252
Thanks CoolColJ
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- Revelation1115
i just hope that the muscle cars wont sound like a prius! i HATED that in gt4 and gtpsp
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