Islam - What's your view on it?

[baldgye]

If those animals have the ability and can reproduce and exist by being homosexual, then that's its nature. But it's impossible for us to exist by being homosexual.

Clearly I can say that you have a huge misunderstanding about how we live here.

Indeed.

 

[Mr Tree]

you say that you can't accept me to force my beliefs into others. But you expect me to accept others forcing their beliefs on me?

No I don't, I ask you to let others have their opinions and live by them and you live by yours. The fact thay you think homosexuality should be illegal shows how you want to force your ideas onto them.
They wouldn't force it obto you they would kust like to be able to lice the way they are. They wont force you to become gay so I can't see how legalising homosexuality forces an opinion on you.

You force your opinion when say homosexuality is nature, while I say it's sexual preference because it is not biologically possible to reproduce as in (Male /Female). If you can convince me otherwise then I will admit that it's a human nature.

But animals do this they can't reproduce either.
If a couple can't have kids should they be split up? Under your logic it's unnatural as they can't have kids. How do you work around that issue?

The guy in the post before forcing his biased beliefs when saying that I'm ignoring reality and that there's no law or protection to women in SA? Is that acceptable? And that is coming from a person who is likely never been in SA or will ever visit it to a person who lives there and have a wife, friends and relatives.

But statutory marital rape is not considered rape in SA. So my scenario would not be considered rape in SA. You might be better then that but it's still not included in statistics as this is not considered rape in your country.

What!! Who on earth do you think we are??

If my wife doesn't want to have sex with me I'm not going to force myself into her. Yes that's a rape.

Clearly I can say that you have a huge misunderstanding about how we live here.

See the issue above

Why do you think that we always force females in doing what they don't want to do? That's stereotype is not true. I'm not denying its existence in some more conservative places, but females are a lot more empowered than what you clearly think.

For starters they HAVE to wear a burka by law... and more importantly your country doesn't put much in the way of the ultra conservative no it creates app that these people can (ab)use.

To be honnest your country here and there is moving the right way but you shouldn't zxpect a pat on the back while you're catching up with the world of 50-100years ago.

Don't forget ypur views are conservative considered to the rest of the world, imagine how we see the conservative side of your fellow SA inhabitants

If those animals have the ability and can reproduce and exist by being homosexual, then that's its nature. But it's impossible for us to exist by being homosexual.

They can't they're gay.... why is repreducrion the obly wqy to prove it's natural,

 

[Scaff]

If my wife doesn't want to have sex with me I'm not going to force myself into her. Yes that's a rape.

Clearly I can say that you have a huge misunderstanding about how we live here.

Not under Saudi law its not, and that's whats being discussed here.

A wife raped by her husband has zero recourse under Saudi law and it would never be reported in crime statistics in Saudi as the law would not see a crime as having been committed.

Why do you think that we always force females in doing what they don't want to do? That's stereotype is not true. I'm not denying its existence in some more conservative places, but females are a lot more empowered than what you clearly think.

I've worked in Saudi, I've worked with Saudi's, my dad lived and worked in Saudi for five years. While change is happening its glacial and still a long, long way behind what it should be.

However please feel free to let the women's rights activists that are locked up and being tortured just how empowered they are, I'm sure it will wash all their suffering away.

If those animals have the ability and can reproduce and exist by being homosexual, then that's its nature. But it's impossible for us to exist by being homosexual.

You do know that just about every animal species on the planet have sex for reasons other than procreation?

Actually scratch that, you clearly don't; and instead are attempting to assign your religious values to animals. I mean if your argument was to hold water, then Bonobo's are unnatural in every way!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo#Sociosexual_behaviour

 

[Betty blue]

Not under Saudi law its not, and that's whats being discussed here.

A wife raped by her husband has zero recourse under Saudi law and it would never be reported in crime statistics in Saudi as the law would not see a crime as having been committed.

What an absolute disgusting lying! I have no interest in having an uncivilized debate with you based on your hatred !

Keep telling yourself what makes you happy mate

 

[Carbonox]

What an absolute disgusting lying! I have no interest in having an uncivilized debate with you based on your hatred !

Keep telling yourself what makes you happy mate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Saudi_Arabia

"However, there is no penal code in Saudi Arabia and there is no written law which specifically criminalizes rape or prescribes its punishment. If the rape victim first entered the rapist's company in violation of purdah, she also stands to be punished by the law's current holdings.[3] In addition, there is no prohibition against marital rape or statutory rape."

Source article.

But uhh, sure, I guess facts can be hateful if you live in a bubble.

 

[Scaff]

What an absolute disgusting lying! I have no interest in having an uncivilized debate with you based on your hatred !

Keep telling yourself what makes you happy mate

Feel free to cite the section of the Saudi penal code that covers it for me.

I've provided a source already (and its just been posted again), which you quite clearly didn't bother looking at.

My contribution to this has been factual and accurate, you are the one that has just replaced reasoned debate with personal digs and attacks, something the AUP is quite clear is not acceptable.

As such I would suggest you support you accusations against me with evidence or retract them.

https://www.state.gov/j/drl/rls/hrrpt/2017/nea/277263.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape#cite_note-399
http://sexualrightsdatabase.org/static/country-369.html
https://womanstats.wordpress.com/2013/01/16/the-high-rape-scale-in-saudi-arabia/

 

[baldgye]

After all homosexuality is sexual preference not human nature!

What an absolute disgusting lying!

I put more effort into these posts than @Betty blue has ever put into critical thinking.

 

[Mr Tree]

What an absolute disgusting lying! I have no interest in having an uncivilized debate with you based on your hatred !

Keep telling yourself what makes you happy mate

What was disgusting in that post? He just cited sources he had. If you have better sources feel free to enlighten us.

 

[UKMikey]

Just sayin'...

 

[PocketZeven]

My opinion is that while humans arent built to be homosexual, nature however was never built to be perfect. Anomolies is what makes nature evolve and what makes certain species unique. Why some religions are so against LGBT is a mystery though. I dont see any possible negative effect it could have on their lives. I would even say it would only enrich their lives. I just dont get it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

My opinion is that while humans arent built to be homosexual

Yes they are, I'll spare you the details but a little research might come in handy.

 

[BobK]

My opinion is that while humans arent built to be homosexual, nature however was never built to be perfect.

Yes they are, I'll spare you the details but a little research might come in handy.

In fact there are any number of videos available om the internet demonstrating this, they shouldn't be hard to find.

 

[Imari]

My opinion is that while humans arent built to be homosexual...

Humans are built to be social. Moralistic sexuality is a cultural phenomenon.

 

[PocketZeven]

Yes they are, I'll spare you the details but a little research might come in handy.

Living organisms are built with the instinct to reproduce and multiply. Nature built males with a penis and sperm and women with a vagina and eggs. Dont misunderstand me I am not anti LGBT, but these are my views of biology.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Living organisms are built with the instinct to reproduce and multiply.

No. Some utterly lack that instinct. It's far truer to say that sexually mature organisms enjoy sexual relief.

 

[PocketZeven]

No. Some utterly lack that instinct. It's far truer to say that sexually mature organisms enjoy sexual relief.

Most living organisms reproduce. I was referring to flora and fauna, micro organisms etc. A very small percentage perhaps do not. You understand the gest. But going back to topic I dont see why any religion should have any problems with LGBT. Where does the hate come from?

 

[BobK]

Most living organisms reproduce. I was referring to flora and fauna, micro organisms etc. A very small percentage perhaps do not. You understand the gest. But going back to topic I dont see why any religion should have any problems with LGBT. Where does the hate come from?

The hate comes from their respective holy books, which they will assure you are infallibly accurate.

 

[PocketZeven]

The hate comes from their respective holy books, which they will assure you are infallibly accurate.

I guess its difficult for an atheist like me to understand.

 

[Scaff]

Living organisms are built with the instinct to reproduce and multiply. Nature built males with a penis and sperm and women with a vagina and eggs. Dont misunderstand me I am not anti LGBT, but these are my views of biology.

Please explain.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

...not to mention that the entire "males with a penis and sperm and women with a vagina and eggs" doesn't actually apply to the majority of species on the planet.

 

[PocketZeven]

Please explain.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals

...not to mention that the entire "males with a penis and sperm and women with a vagina and eggs" doesn't actually apply to the majority of species on the planet.

I understand you want to debunk my statement, but for the majority of lifeforms a male and female component are required to reproduce. I do not dispute your statement that it happens in other life forms. There are even lifeforms that reproduce themselves without a male/female component. But like I also stated nature is not perfect and that makes it beautifull.

 

[Scaff]

I understand you want to debunk my statement, but for the majority of lifeforms a male and female component are required to reproduce. I do not dispute your statement that it happens in other life forms. There are even lifeforms that reproduce themselves without a male/female component. But like I also stated nature is not perfect and that makes it beautifull.

Nope. Single celled organisms, bacteria and virus are the most common on the planet and do not have different sexes.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...-most-abundant-organism-on-earth-is-19254662/

Nor does anything you have mentioned point to homosexuality not being perfectly natural.

 

[PocketZeven]

Nope. Single celled organisms and virus are the most common on the planet and do not have different sexes.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...-most-abundant-organism-on-earth-is-19254662/

Nor does anything you have mentioned point to homosexuality not being perfectly natural.

The natural part is the ability to reproduce or multiply. Single celled organisms and virus reproduce through other means. homosexuality does not have the purpose of reproducing and is purely a social phenomena. I was not trying to say it was wrong or right. Just that biologically homosexuality does not serve a purpose. Socially it does.

 

[Scaff]

The natural part is the ability to reproduce or multiply. Single celled organisms and virus reproduce through other means. homosexuality does not have the purpose of reproducing and is purely a social phenomena. I wa not trying to say it was wrong or right. Just that biologically homosexuality does not serve a purpose. Socially it does.

Many scientists disagree with you (nor does your argument explain its natural occurrence in non social animal species).

You would have a point if it occurred 100% in a species, but it doesn't. However feel free to ignore the weight of scientific evidence.

Natural doesn't mean you have to be able to reproduce, you seem to be ignoring that members of any species can be infertile.

 

[Imari]

I understand you want to debunk my statement, but for the majority of lifeforms a male and female component are required to reproduce. I do not dispute your statement that it happens in other life forms. There are even lifeforms that reproduce themselves without a male/female component. But like I also stated nature is not perfect and that makes it beautifull.

You're sort of choosing to ignore the fact that making babies is far from the only reason people have sex. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it's one of the less common reasons people have sex. Given that there are plenty of reasons like socialising, pleasure, dominance, and so on, why should sex be limited to persons of different genders?

For an atheist, you're awfully attached to the very religiously inspired idea of "sex is for reproduction only".

 

[PocketZeven]

Many scientists disagree with you (nor does your argument explain its natural occurrence in non social animal species).

You would have a point if it occurred 100% in a species, but it doesn't. However feel free to ignore the weight of scientific evidence.

Natural doesn't mean you have to be able to reproduce, you seem to be ignoring that members of any species can be infertile.

You're sort of choosing to ignore the fact that making babies is far from the only reason people have sex. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it's one of the less common reasons people have sex. Given that there are plenty of reasons like socialising, pleasure, dominance, and so on, why should sex be limited to persons of different genders?

For an atheist, you're awfully attached to the very religiously inspired idea of "sex is for reproduction only".

I did not state that it occurs 100%, neither did I state there werent no exceptions. You are merely focusing on details that werent relevant to my statement. You are missing the gest of the statement. The Wiki you linked to also states its social behavior. The confusion started perhaps that in the statement nature=biology. Which I perhaps wrongly used.

My point boils down that many organisms (like humans) were built with female/male organs for the purpose to reproduce biologically. Which is factual. You are mixing different sciences together. I was not speaking of social behavior, I was merely explaining my own personal views concerning there is no biological purpose for human beings to be homosexual. Just like believing in religion, being in a homogenous relationship etc.

@Imari I agree. But in biology humans being homosexual does not make sense. Socially it does. You are misenterpreting my statement perhaps for being antigay, which I am not.

 

[Scaff]

I did not state that it occurs 100%, neither did I state there werent no exceptions. You are merely focusing on details that werent relevant to my statement. You are missing the gest of the statement. The Wiki you linked to also states its social behavior. The confusion started perhaps that in the statement nature=biology. Which I perhaps wrongly used.

My point boils down that many organisms (like humans) were built with female/male organs for the purpose to reproduce biologically. Which is factual. You are mixing different sciences together. I was not speaking of social behavior, I was merely explaining my own personal views concerning there is no biological purpose for human beings to be homosexual. Just like believing in religion, being in a homogenous relationship etc.

And as I've said and you dismissed out of hand, no biological purpose for them being unable to reproduce either, but it happens (many because natural, biological gene shift happens).

Nor among most of the species you are referring to is sex just a biological function, even the none social ones.

 

[PocketZeven]

And as I've said and you dismissed out of hand, no biological purpose for them being unable to reproduce either, but it happens (many because natural, biological gene shift happens).

Nor among most of the species you are referring to is sex just a biological function, even the none social ones.

Those are anomolies however. Exceptions to the rule (biologically).

Sex has both biological as social functions. I was just seperating the two to share my views of sexuality and religion. What other function does having male/female organs have either then reproduction in biology?


Edit:

For an atheist, you're awfully attached to the very religiously inspired idea of "sex is for reproduction only".

Sorry for the confusion. I wasnt stating that at all. I was just sharing my view on the fact that male/female organs exist for reproduction in biology. I am not disclaiming the social function at all.

 

[Scaff]

Those are anomolies however. Exceptions to the rule (biologically).

Sex has both biological as social functions. I was just seperating the two to share my views of sexuality and religion. What other function does having male/female organs have either then reproduction in biology?


Edit:



Sorry for the confusion. I wasnt stating that at all. I was just sharing my view on the fact that male/female organs exist for reproduction in biology. I am not disclaiming the social function at all.

Anomalies that exist and as such have to be accounted for.

In nature sex is a complicated tool, which has many functions, all of which are natural.

In nature, reproduction is a complicated thing that has many routes, the most numerous of which don't require male and female of a species.

As such a attempt to assign a 'normal' or 'natural' to it is doomed to failure.

 

[PocketZeven]

Anomalies that exist and as such have to be accounted for.

In nature sex is a complicated tool, which has many functions, all of which are natural.

In nature, reproduction is a complicated thing that has many routes, the most numerous of which don't require male and female of a species.

As such a attempt to assign a 'normal' or 'natural' to it is doomed to failure.

I meant nature as in biology. Sorry for the confusion. I dont disagree with your post, but again I was trying to state that the purpose of male/female organs is to reproduce if you look at it from a biology standpoint.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I was trying to state that the purpose of male/female organs is to reproduce if you look at it from a biology standpoint.

And you're wrong about that exclusivity as well. They have a number of functions.