Kaz: Pushing the Virtual Divide

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by sokira, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. baldgye

    baldgye Premium

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    So you count your experience and time here as nothing?

    You might not feel like you owe Kaz money, but you must in some way feel some in debted to him for helping create the environment and community you post in. Without him this place wouldn't exist...



    Sorry for multipul posts using a phone makes it difficult and I keep forgetting this forum dsnt have an auto merge!
     
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  2. Cosbuster

    Cosbuster

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    And if it wasn't for this place or this game, I'd be somewhere else passing my time there (which I already am partly). Why is it so hard to understand that it's not a life-shaping experience for some people?
     
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  3. HKS racer

    HKS racer (Banned)

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    GT6 frame rate sucks, AI sucks even more, the truth is he is only pushing the marketing divide.

    Oh and the sound.

    GT6 on sale? I don't even want it for free.
    Bad frame rate bad AI? No thanks, seriously.

    Kaz stop with this silly youtube marketing, go back making good racing games.
    GT4 was the last one.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2014
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  4. GTPorsche

    GTPorsche

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    It's not easy to maintain performance on outdated hardware while trying to improve on things from 5. Something has to suffer because of it.
     
  5. HKS racer

    HKS racer (Banned)

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    It's not easy to defend a developer when failing to perform on a well known hardware with well known limitations.

    Wake up, you are betatesting some stuff meant for a PS4 on a PS3, and you are paying for it.
     
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  6. 6 Cylinder

    6 Cylinder

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    And you really think that's because Kaz made the best game? The only thing he managed was to sell more copies than his competitors giving him more funds to spend on new games.
    This cycle repeats itself a few times untill only one still stands. Also consider that producing games has become much more expensive over the years making it very hard for newcomers.
     
  7. jimipitbull

    jimipitbull

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    Don't beat yourself up too much over it http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation/gran-turismo
     
  8. novcze

    novcze

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    They sort of overshoot with what PS3 can do, it started with GT5 and continues with GT6. I partially blame Sony for that, but it make no sense for them to tone down GT6 because it is good testing for next PS4 game. I'm OK with this as I'm not part of this betatest and waiting for finished product on the PS4 :-)
     
  9. f1webberfan

    f1webberfan

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    The film is a biography ... so I wasn't expecting much.
    Although Kaz seems like a very nice person to me ... and although he make amends that the game is far from finished, from there the reference that GT is not only a game but a movement, he actually didn't seem to acknowledge that the game had it's flaws. Which is the seed of grandeur. But that's a side note.
    As for my impressions of the movie ... The best part was the moment with the GT academy - if you are good in the game you would probably be a decent racing driver irl. Which is part true, part false, I guess. It depends on how hard you hit the tree/fence/car if you think real = virtual. And also that part when from just playing a video game you might be better than some peers with big bank accounts to support them in the world of motorsports and no skill, or at least minimum amounts of it. :)
    But what happens if you like the game ... but you suck at it or you are medicore at it? Should you bother even trying to be better, make setups, test ... or just left it there and move on ... another genre as a whole? But that's personal preference of course. Truth is performance is 90% based on time spent on trying. At least for me. I'm a fast learner but you just have to explain a lot and in detail. ;)
    Nice movie as a whole. Worth watching in between more serious stuff.
     
  10. MXH

    MXH Premium

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    Just finished watching the documentary and found it rather underwhelming. The quote below describes my thoughts exactly.
     
  11. Spagetti69

    Spagetti69 Premium

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    How was the sound ?
     
  12. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne

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    If you know that much about building in the PS3 architecture then you'll know that many developers found it to be the last bastion of the weirdly-bespoke. That worked well for PS and PS2 but not for PS3. Go and look for articles on the subject, you'll find plenty.

    In terms of the PS4... the switch to x86 architecture means that the bespoke days are over, developers will work in a much more familiar coding/library environment. The only problem for PS3-only developers, PD amongst them, is that they will never have built any x86-style libraries and therefore won't have any portable material.

    To say that GT6 is a beta for the PS4 software is ludicrous, resource libraries will be common but coding libraries cannot be ported - ever. If you're concerned about the resources you could say you've been beta-testing since the first GT...but you simply cannot say that about PS4 code ;)
     
  13. HKS racer

    HKS racer (Banned)

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    Missed the point.
    PD already made a stable frame rate version of GT with GT5prologue and GT5. Keeping 60 fps most of times and slowing down only in some rare occassions. GT6 slow down much more than GT5 because they are trying new stuff with PS4 in mind or they are no longer able to balance things up for whatever reason.
     
  14. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne

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    I still think I saw your point and encompassed it. They WILL be trying new graphic routines, new methods, new logic... but the code itself will not be from the PS4. The resources may, not the code.

    Running code is fast, easy, light, no problem. As soon as you start drawing output it gets heavy, and that's what you're seeing on the PS3. Lots of texture and lighting changes and improved models are being drawn in GT6 but the routines that are doing that are bespoke to the PS3. Almost all of the code will differ on the PS4 as it draws on entirely different internal resources.

    Every iteration of a game (usually) sees improvements in graphical output and GT is no different. This time they're pushing the boundaries of one of the most difficult consoles to write for. Just because PS4 is on the scene you shouldn't allow that to make you think that it's having a gravitational effect on the code efficiency of a PS3 title. They're not related in any way other than the name of the console.
     
  15. HKS racer

    HKS racer (Banned)

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    Ok we can keep talking forever but what really care to me is GT6 to improve frame rate at least to GT5 level
    Now if they can't do it anymore, Houston we have a problem.

    *Insert yet another random excuse here*
     
  16. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne

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    I haven't given a random excuse - I read your point and countered it from within my own opinion :D

    I don't think the GT6 framerate is good and nor do many other people... but it hasn't broken the game for me. It's not ideal but PS3 gaming hasn't been. A lot of people are suddenly all misty and nostalgic for GT5, how quickly we forget.

    Circling back to the topic... the film is a great illustration of the development of the core idea over the years in an architecture independent way. There have been worse points than this in the GT saga...
     
  17. HKS racer

    HKS racer (Banned)

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    We are talking about a racing game, you might be ok but it is a massive deal breaker for several people.
     
  18. R1600Turbo

    R1600Turbo Premium

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    Never been an issue for me.

    As for the film, watched it last night and got lost a few times when they were talking to people that had nothing to do with the GT series, felt like they were just adding fluff to make the film longer. Wasn't terrible though, the camera work was good.
     
  19. VenomDan

    VenomDan

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    I see what you did there :lol:
     
  20. HKS racer

    HKS racer (Banned)

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    So?
     
  21. CAMAROBOY69

    CAMAROBOY69 Premium

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    I will have to watch this sometime for sure. Especially since it is on youtube. I practically spent a 1/3 of my life with the GT series. Even though I don't agree with all the decisions made in the series, it would be wrong to say I don't still have a soft spot in my heart for the GT series. I also have a lot of respect for Kaz and his GT visions. We can nit pic here and there about the games but Kaz truly has changed many of our lives. His sim games helped improve my road track times in real life without a doubt. Many of us have learned at least something about cars while playing this series.

    Watched the first 30 minutes on my lunch break and so far it is a good video with a lot of great information. Kaz kicking the trees to make beetles fall made me laugh. His dad really inspired him a lot. I will finish watching the video within the next couple days on my lunch breaks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
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  22. Sick Lenny

    Sick Lenny

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    I understand the sentiment (being 40+ myself, and hearing things like that from a youngster) but kids can still be subject to just as much stress, if not more, especially if they come from an abusive home or are being bullied.
    Teens' Stress Levels Rival Those of Adults, Survey Finds More Here
    Not saying this is some definitive scientific research, but it points out some things that are obvious stressors for youngsters that don't require research to realize.
    The point is, we shouldn't judge/assume about others until you have "walked a mile in their shoes."
     
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  23. CAMAROBOY69

    CAMAROBOY69 Premium

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    I finished up watching the video today on my lunch break. Overall truly moving video about Kaz and his vision. The best part of the video imo was how GT Academy has not only brought out some of the best racers in in the GT series. It has also taken their knowledge to the ultimate level of becoming REAL life racers. Its proof that racing simulators truly improve racing in real life. I know it has improved my times and my skills at my real life road track events.

    We nitpick here and there about the games but dang Kaz truly put his heart, soul and life into GT. We cant deny that GT has educated all of us one way or another. Whether it was something about cars, tracks, environments, physics or the overall beauty. I am so glad I took the time to watch this video and I recommend everyone else do the same thing. Thanks again for sharing. Excellent video. :tup:
     
  24. Griffith500

    Griffith500

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    I've been known to be pretty cynical about the commercial aspect of GT, completely aside from its merits as an interactive fantasy, and when I see things like GT Academy and Vision GT, I think of GT as morphing into something of a brand, a projected image implying fulfilment of expectations on which to secure profit.

    So when Kaz started talking about the GT "Movement", I thought "yeah, I know". But then he said it's more about how the attitudes of his team are reflected in the players their games have touched; it's an inadvertent by-product of their work, the School of Polyphony. (I thought it was poignant that they realised from day one that they wouldn't get such developmental purity as they did with the first game again, and that that team ownership and transfer of ideals would be coloured by future expectation).

    And then I realised that my working practices, my outlook on life and my expectations of the world and everything in it, including myself, were indeed at least in part shaped by the attention to detail and experiential purity (in terms of design focus) of games like Gran Turismo. Or maybe it's not so much that it "shaped" me, as such, more that it gave me a place and basis to solidify (along with all the other influences) my pre-existing disposition, which to be honest wasn't favourably received in my immediate environment at the time. It didn't have to be GT, or any of my other influences, that provided that space, but they're what I got.

    Tan San's description of their approach to the physics engine best defines it, along with the modern origami metaphor. You don't start with a result and reverse engineer it step by step, rather you understand the individual shapes and functions that form the fundaments that reproduce some coherent whole, and tweak every component as it comes together at the same time. That's where the sculptor comes in, because it's the distillation of the experience into what the fundamental aim is: to give the impression of being one with a driving machine, at the second-by-second level. Then the board shaper uses his tools and expertise, plus technology and constant (re)learning, to deliver the tangible effects that fulfil that impression, whilst balancing the flawed expression of the non-human processes against the human experience they're intended to provide.

    For me, that totally is the essence of engineering and design, and with it, ingenuity in general. This isn't a celebration of Gran Turismo or Kaz alone, rather a continuation of the celebration of human creativity, beyond simply existing. (And also a nice bit of advertising for all involved, let's not forget - but it's still a nice, positively provocative thing).
     
  25. VenomDan

    VenomDan

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    Well said my friend! :tup: And I agree with the points that you made.
     
  26. Sick Lenny

    Sick Lenny

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    Agreed, although I somewhat cynically would say that this concept/philosophy is lost in large part on mainstream western culture, as evidenced by the heavily cynical reactions to this doc as merely an advert or Kaz patting himself on the back. That's how westerners (especially my fellow Americans) generally see/approach life, and they don't really get the ideas here (except to say that they are stupid or a waste of time/resources). Not criticizing them for it though, just pointing out the culture clash/divide.
     
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  27. Dionisiy

    Dionisiy

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  28. che_bonsai

    che_bonsai

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    HTML:
    magnet:?xt=urn:btih:D2AD3162E311CBB8E3ABE976FF141A822D3AB60E
    magnet torrent with film (MP4 1080p) :gtpflag:
    for those who don't like streaming :dopey:
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  29. ProjectWHaT

    ProjectWHaT

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    I think that was the worst behind the scenes video I've ever seen.
     
  30. TenEightyOne

    TenEightyOne

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    Not the worst, but one of them. I thought maybe one of the crew had let his child do their school film project using the rushes... then at the end the Chevrolet logo came up. That surprised me! :D
     
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