Maintenance Notice this time for GT6 thank God!

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

In fact I would argue that anyone not upset is more a part of the problem than the solutions.

Some people need to be forced to write that quote a 100 times on the chalkboard.

 

[Lawndart]

Perspective? This is an aggressive statement but highlights where my frustration comes from and how it might differ beyond just a customers...

If I (my team) was given the source and any translated development documentation of both GT 5 and GT 6 we could rebuild GT 6 in all it's glory well beyond the "coming soon" updates.

I would need all the systems, TDD's, assets, memory maps, compilers, build tools, etc.

6 Months and you'll have the greatest GT ever produced.

8 months if all the docs are in Japanese.

Either option I would charge less than 1 million and a 5% rev share split of gross revenue.

The team would be less than 10 people... I'll personally fix the AI and resample all the audio (Based on engine displacement and unique manufacturer notes, not re-record all the cars...).

Either GT is all spaghetti code or they don't even understand their own code base... All the foundations are there to make a great benchmark racing game...

A ridiculous claim? Not in the world I live in. The state of GT 6 now vs. what it could be is far more ridiculous.

If you challenged me to do the same with COD or Total War? Not likely. For better or worse, those games have a formula they are based on... GT doesn't, it's a tech demo that desperately needs to be a game.

 

[Swagger897]

Perspective? This is an aggressive statement but highlights where my frustration comes from and how it might differ beyond just a customers...

If I (my team) was given the source and any translated development documentation of both GT 5 and GT 6 we could rebuild GT 6 in all it's glory well beyond the "coming soon" updates.

I would need all the systems, TDD's, assets, memory maps, compilers, build tools, etc.

6 Months and you'll have the greatest GT ever produced.

8 months if all the docs are in Japanese.

Either option I would charge less than 1 million and a 5% rev share split of gross revenue.

The team would be less than 10 people... I'll personally fix the AI and resample all the audio.

Either GT is all spaghetti code or they don't even understand their own code base... All the foundations are there to make a great benchmark racing game...

A ridiculous claim? Not in the world I live in. The state of GT 6 now vs. what it could be is far more ridiculous.

If you challenged me to do the same with COD or Total War? Not likely. For better or worse, those games have a formula they are based on... GT doesn't, it's a tech demo that desperately needs to be a game.

In the event of this occurrence, I would pay you double...

 

[Madertus]

*snip!*

How are you doing this? Pretty much every single of your posts makes me nod at least three times! Where's that Elder insight coming from?

 

[Lawndart]

How are you doing this? Pretty much every single of your posts makes me nod at least three times! Where's that Elder insight coming from?

I've been around awhile... I've spend more time leading/developing AAA games (and some not so good ones :/) than from birth to legal adult... 20 years at an average of 10 hours a day and no real vacations to speak of takes its toll... My first game production was Decent, my last was Southpark... I NEEDED GT 6 for escapism... I can't even properly commit to a full race season due to work scheduling conflicts...

There are likely several game developers hovering on here but I'm seriously contemplating retirement from games, so I'm a bit more open... I might as well share, least its all going to the grave with me, or smeared all over an Armco...

 

[sk8er913]

I've been around awhile... I've spend more time leading/developing AAA games (and some not so good ones :/) than from birth to legal adult... 20 years at an average of 10 hours a day and no real vacations to speak of takes its toll... My first game production was Decent, my last was Southpark... I NEEDED GT 6 for escapism... I can't even properly commit to a full race season due to work scheduling conflicts...

There are likely several game developers hovering on here but I'm seriously contemplating retirement from games, so I'm a bit more open... I might as well share, least its all going to the grave with me, or smeared all over an Armco...

Then other devs *cough* also don't understand their own code. So they don't want to talk down about the wizardry that's much more complex. Lol!

 

[Lawndart]

Then other devs *cough* also don't understand their own code. So they don't want to talk down about the wizardry that's much more complex. Lol!

There is definitely a dark art involved in making games... Remember the first Devil may cry? The juggling mechanic was a physics bug... It was such a cool bug that the devs made it into a feature that became the hallmark for the series... Otherwise it would have been an Onimishu clone...

 

[SDsnakebutt]

Kart Adjustments Options Expanded
- [Traction Control] is now available to adjust in the [Driving Options]. [Skid Recovery Force] is also now available.

- [Brake Balance] is now available to adjust in [Machine Settings]. Only the rear can be adjusted in Normal Karts, while both the front and rear can be adjusted in Shifter Karts…

Hahaha i just spent my whole weekend and all my patience getting Gold on all the kart events. THIS could have been so useful. oh well.

I have to say i am happy with the update itself. Others will come soon enough. It will be that much sweeter once they do because of the delays.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

Does anyone think there will be the standard weekly maintenance or not? Not that I'm expecting anything, just wondering whether I will get to race online tonight.

 

[Tenacious D]

Test Drive Unlimited.
Test Drive Unlimited 2.
Forza Horizon.

I think you get the idea. Plenty of racing games

Uhm... yeah, plenty.

I did forget about those games, but then, that's about how memorable they are. Hardly mentioned around here, with the exception of Horizon over in that other realm.

A 27km track isn't really any different to the Nurburgring.

I'm going to disagree. The Nurb is long, but you also can't see much of it. Zahara is panoramic, almost as much as Willow Springs. That has to make a difference.

You also might have to combine TDU and TDU2 to display as many polygons and textures as in a scene from GT6. Those are a little old.

 

[Swagger897]

I'm going to disagree. The Nurb is long, but you also can't see much of it. Zahara is panoramic, almost as much as Willow Springs. That has to make a difference.

On point.. 👍

 

[Imari]

Uhm... yeah, plenty.

Fuel.
Burnout Paradise.
All the Need for Speed open world games.
GTA IV (the driving bits).
GTA V (the driving bits).

I did forget about those games, but then, that's about how memorable they are. Hardly mentioned around here, with the exception of Horizon over in that other realm.

Memorability has absolutely nothing to do with the point I'm making. Gran Turismo is not the first game to do a long track, and frankly 27km is pretty pathetic compared to some of the stuff that's out there. Get a PC and go drive Targa Florio.

I'm going to disagree. The Nurb is long, but you also can't see much of it. Zahara is panoramic, almost as much as Willow Springs. That has to make a difference.

Maybe. Again, it pretty much has to be a streaming track. They can make wide open tracks work, you reference Willow Springs which is a great example. They can make streaming tracks work, Nurburgring.

Is there any reason to believe that these two things should cause any problems when put together?

You also might have to combine TDU and TDU2 to display as many polygons and textures as in a scene from GT6. Those are a little old.

*Sigh*

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Perspective? This is an aggressive statement but highlights where my frustration comes from and how it might differ beyond just a customers...

If I (my team) was given the source and any translated development documentation of both GT 5 and GT 6 we could rebuild GT 6 in all it's glory well beyond the "coming soon" updates.

I would need all the systems, TDD's, assets, memory maps, compilers, build tools, etc.

6 Months and you'll have the greatest GT ever produced.

8 months if all the docs are in Japanese.

Either option I would charge less than 1 million and a 5% rev share split of gross revenue.

The team would be less than 10 people... I'll personally fix the AI and resample all the audio (Based on engine displacement and unique manufacturer notes, not re-record all the cars...).

Either GT is all spaghetti code or they don't even understand their own code base... All the foundations are there to make a great benchmark racing game...

A ridiculous claim? Not in the world I live in. The state of GT 6 now vs. what it could be is far more ridiculous.

If you challenged me to do the same with COD or Total War? Not likely. For better or worse, those games have a formula they are based on... GT doesn't, it's a tech demo that desperately needs to be a game.

Hire me!

Seriously.

 

[HaylRayzor]

GT doesn't, it's a tech demo that desperately needs to be a game.

Just in case anybody missed that point.

 

[sk8er913]

Hire me!

Seriously.

I think all of the devs from gtp should get together and make GT GTP... @Lawndart can be our lead programmer! and I can model cars or fantasy tracks or interface options. Maybe @Jordan can give Kaz a copy and he can try it and maybe even implement some of our features.

 

[azeeza]

Hire me!

Seriously.

Just one word, just make your game. it s easy to talk

Edit: sorry, it s for @Lawndart @Lawndart

 

[Zlork]

They announced it at the roundtable and the taipei game show(I think).

Yes and ?

I haven't seen official videos on official website or/and on PS Blog. It's not for nothing that I put quotation marks

 

[Marqus]

Yes and ?

I mean official videos on official website or/and on PS Blog. It's not for nothing that I put quotation marks.

I remember seeing a trailer for Zahara.

 

[Terronium-12]

Yes and ?

I haven't seen official videos on official website or/and on PS Blog. It's not for nothing that I put quotation marks

It was announced back in January; teased for February; reported to release in February soon after.

It missed the deadline.

 

[jimipitbull]

Perspective? This is an aggressive statement but highlights where my frustration comes from and how it might differ beyond just a customers...

If I (my team) was given the source and any translated development documentation of both GT 5 and GT 6 we could rebuild GT 6 in all it's glory well beyond the "coming soon" updates.

I would need all the systems, TDD's, assets, memory maps, compilers, build tools, etc.

6 Months and you'll have the greatest GT ever produced.

8 months if all the docs are in Japanese.

Either option I would charge less than 1 million and a 5% rev share split of gross revenue.

The team would be less than 10 people... I'll personally fix the AI and resample all the audio (Based on engine displacement and unique manufacturer notes, not re-record all the cars...).

Either GT is all spaghetti code or they don't even understand their own code base... All the foundations are there to make a great benchmark racing game...

A ridiculous claim? Not in the world I live in. The state of GT 6 now vs. what it could be is far more ridiculous.

If you challenged me to do the same with COD or Total War? Not likely. For better or worse, those games have a formula they are based on... GT doesn't, it's a tech demo that desperately needs to be a game.

You would need to sell yourself better than that.

If it's so easy, why haven't you already made the best driving game ever?

 

[GTPorsche]

Perspective? This is an aggressive statement but highlights where my frustration comes from and how it might differ beyond just a customers...

If I (my team) was given the source and any translated development documentation of both GT 5 and GT 6 we could rebuild GT 6 in all it's glory well beyond the "coming soon" updates.

I would need all the systems, TDD's, assets, memory maps, compilers, build tools, etc.

6 Months and you'll have the greatest GT ever produced.

8 months if all the docs are in Japanese.

Either option I would charge less than 1 million and a 5% rev share split of gross revenue.

The team would be less than 10 people... I'll personally fix the AI and resample all the audio (Based on engine displacement and unique manufacturer notes, not re-record all the cars...).

Either GT is all spaghetti code or they don't even understand their own code base... All the foundations are there to make a great benchmark racing game...

A ridiculous claim? Not in the world I live in. The state of GT 6 now vs. what it could be is far more ridiculous.

If you challenged me to do the same with COD or Total War? Not likely. For better or worse, those games have a formula they are based on... GT doesn't, it's a tech demo that desperately needs to be a game.

Well, what's stopping you from creating that game that you say you can create?

 

[eran0004]

In fact I would argue that anyone not upset is more a part of the problem than the solutions.

Nice shot at polarizing the community. If you're not with us, you're against us. Pick a side, or everything will partially be your fault.

I'm pretty sure that if they do monitor this forum as much as that argument needs them to do for it to have any validity, they already picked up on the negative feedback.

 

[Morphisor]

You would need to sell yourself better than that.

If it's so easy, why haven't you already made the best driving game ever?

I believe he means the whole programming part of the game.

He can't make all of this so easily, because getting assets like cars and tracks in a game on this scale and this level of quality requires an immense amount of grunt work. Everything needs scanning and then reproducing, and as we've seen before, even a 'small' asset like a car takes hundreds of hours of work.

And that's not even considering the giant amount of licensing that PD needs for everything.

It's creating all the assets, and needing loads of financial leverage to obtain licenses that keeps everyone else from doing this kind of thing. Apart from the recreation of physics, the codebase should be easy.

 

[jimipitbull]

I believe he means the whole programming part of the game.

He can't make all of this so easily, because getting assets like cars and tracks in a game on this scale and this level of quality requires an immense amount of grunt work. Everything needs scanning and then reproducing, and as we've seen before, even a 'small' asset like a car takes hundreds of hours of work.

And that's not even considering the giant amount of licensing that PD needs for everything.

It's creating all the assets, and needing loads of financial leverage to obtain licenses that keeps everyone else from doing this kind of thing. Apart from the recreation of physics, the codebase should be easy.

Well, he could make a demo. One car, one track.

That would speak a lot louder than words on a forum.

It's easy to say you can do something, any of us can do that. But the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

 

[andryush]

Well, what's stopping you from creating that game that you say you can create?

And here we see upsides of modding games and consoles to play this modded games. So it's not only for piracy. For example - Final Fantasy Type-0, Square Enix didn't wanted to release it in Europe or NA. So modding community made its own translation of japanese game! Why SE didn't wanted to make it for fans of the FF series?!

Same for Gran Turismo, it's possible to make perfect game as @Lawndart said. He wants less than 1mln and 5% share of revenue for doing it in official way but i believe that if modding community had same tools as official dev team, we will have all this for free!

 

[Tenacious D]

Fuel.
Burnout Paradise.
All the Need for Speed open world games.
GTA IV (the driving bits).
GTA V (the driving bits).

I know you keep mentioning games, but I really should be more clear since you bring up the Nurb yet again. With the possible exception of Horizon, I'm unaware of any game which lets you see 20 miles of terrain like Willow Springs or Zahara. And I'm not sure about Horizon because all the YTs I've seen of events have the same kind of partial view of the surroundings. Kind of like the Course Maker tracks. I made a crazy long track in Eiger fields which made quite an expanse, but there isn't much stuff in it, just some generic trees and a building here and there in the distance. Still, the scope is pretty huge.

There is an insane helicopter shot of Willow which shows miles of the terrain. There are no buildings or trees, just some small scrub and low hills so it's not the most detailed scenery. But jeepers, there is miles of it, and it looks realistic. I haven't seen anything like it yet in a racing game, except for Zahara, and that has all kinds of objects to render.

 

[Imari]

So you think that it's special in that it has a large draw distance?

Great, you'll really enjoy it if it's your first time driving a track like that. Without being facetious, it's really nice being able to see things far away. It gives a great sense of immersion in the world. You're still stuck on a narrow road, but the feeling of being in the middle of a real landscape is much greater.

It isn't a new thing though. Some of us have experienced this before. It's great that you're excited for it and you'll really like driving on it, but this isn't something revolutionary.

 

[Tenacious D]

I was going to come back and edit my post to reflect yours, but yes, exactly. A lot of us are wowed by Willow Springs, and if we get something like it but lush and alive, more wow. And then there's Rhonda we're looking forward to.

 

[wowbaggerBR]

Yes and ?

I haven't seen official videos on official website or/and on PS Blog. It's not for nothing that I put quotation marks

You are always in denial about missing dates, man.

 

[Lawndart]

You would need to sell yourself better than that.

If it's so easy, why haven't you already made the best driving game ever?

I'm talking about fixing GT 6, not recreating it. Read my post again.

Just one word, just make your game. it s easy to talk

Edit: sorry, it s for @Lawndart @Lawndart

Right... And would you prefer I stop posting? My point is more how little PD do compared to what could be done.

Well, what's stopping you from creating that game that you say you can create?

Because it's the worst game to start from scratch from a business perspective due to licensing. There is a reason the 2 most highly licensed car games are done by the 1st party publishers.

Nice shot at polarizing the community. If you're not with us, you're against us. Pick a side, or everything will partially be your fault.

I'm pretty sure that if they do monitor this forum as much as that argument needs them to do for it to have any validity, they already picked up on the negative feedback.

I'm not seeing much polarity in the community these days... But what I said about how devs read forums is a fact.

Well, he could make a demo. One car, one track.

That would speak a lot louder than words on a forum.

It's easy to say you can do something, any of us can do that. But the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

I don't need to prove myself. I've done that 50 times over. But if you would like a prototype then give me 100k and I can start it in April and deliver before the Senna content. I would likely choose Crytek as the engine.

But my entire statement was based on more of "modding" GT 6 than recreating it. You would be surprised how common this is in the game industry... Publisher has a bad game, they fire the original developer and hire another one.

All of these 'retorts' are worthless and only serve to be argumentative. I respect the fact I made a claim that seems bold to you, not so much to me, and 100% fueled by my disappointments in GT 6...

But also being a part of the racing world, there are people with lots of money looking to use it for something, and blowing it in the 100s of thousands so if by chance anyone one of you are one of them then I will entertain a realistic proposition...

In the future I'll simply ignore these posts. And you can ignore mine.