Motorcycles in GT6?

[Samus]

Yes everyone has an opinion and are entitled to it so why are you telling him you think you know the reason he has that opinion? His opinion is that GT should be about cars, who are you to tell him why he thinks that?

 

[another_jakhole]

If you think I am, then point out where.

Sorry about that. It's what I highlighted in bold. They've undertaken a motorcycle game before with literally just a handful of people using GT4's resources. The graphics were better, the physics were technically better, the driver/rider animations still look awesome for a last-generation game. With that experience, they can reasonably add bikes to the GT series much easier than you think. Instead of making an entirely new game like some are suggesting, simply add bikes/motorcycles to GT5.

^^ you're just trying to stir stuff up. Doesn't really matter why his opinion is the way it is, it is just an opinion. Everyone has one.

I have heard a number of times that Gran Turismo should be a "driving" simulator because that's the way it has always been. And it sounded like that is the same place his opinion was coming from.

I hardly use the race cars in GT or any other racing game. They should only add production cars in my opinion. lol

It's an opinion, but one that can be SERIOUSLY debated. GT is always evolving, why does it have to stick with cars? The "slogan" of the Real Driving Simulator always is made fun of by the whiners. Gran Turismo is Italian for "Grand Tour". AMiRight? or Am I right?

 

[Cote Dazur]

With or without this

I would love to have the choice to compete with my favorite bike, offline or online with my friends.
Why have two sims when you can combine the 2, as we had seen from TT, they use the same tracks anyway.
Make 2 versions, a limited one with cars only and a complete version with cars and bikes.
Would be interesting to see which one is the most popular.
I would bet that most of GT5 fans, own both a motorcycle and a car

 

[JeremiahTB]

As long as they don't take away from the experience of car racing, I'd be all for it. PD has done a Motorcycle game before, so why not do it again with GT6 on the PS4? The power should be there if what I hear from Sony is true.

 

[Tapey]

Gran Turismo HD, the game Polyphony Digital was working on to showcase the power of the PS3, was fully playable with both cars and motorcycles. People were allowed to go hands-on with the game and not only choose from cars and motorcycles to race with, but both types of vehicle were both racing on the track at the exact same time.

Thanks to this, we know that an early version of GT5 featured both cars and bikes. Why Polyphony Digital chose to remove motorcycles from the game will forever be a mystery I guess, but they were in the game. They also featured damage and allowed the rider to be knocked off the bike during accidents.

Don't believe me? Well see for yourself! There is video footage available

 

[TokoTurismo]

^ PD could probably do that again on the PS4, because that one may have more power to do those.

 

[analog]

Thanks to this, we know that an early version of GT5 featured both cars and bikes. Why Polyphony Digital chose to remove motorcycles from the game will forever be a mystery I guess, but they were in the game. They also featured damage and allowed the rider to be knocked off the bike during accidents.

Don't believe me? Well see for yourself! There is video footage available

Think we all knew that already , and riders falling off the bike was implemented in Tourist Trophy which is where the bikes came from.

 

[Cote Dazur]

Gran Turismo HD, the game Polyphony Digital was working on to showcase the power of the PS3, was fully playable with both cars and motorcycles. People were allowed to go hands-on with the game and not only choose from cars and motorcycles to race with, but both types of vehicle were both racing on the track at the exact same time.

Thanks to this, we know that an early version of GT5 featured both cars and bikes. Why Polyphony Digital chose to remove motorcycles from the game will forever be a mystery I guess, but they were in the game. They also featured damage and allowed the rider to be knocked off the bike during accidents.

Don't believe me? Well see for yourself! There is video footage available

Thank you for the video link, I might have know about it, but I had forgotten, thanks for the reminder.

 

[nascarfn]

PLZ NO MOTORCYCLES IN GT6 it is unesasary and alot of work as they'll have redo everything on the game

 

[sinbad]

PLZ NO MOTORCYCLES IN GT6 it is unesasary and alot of work as they'll have redo everything on the game

Yes everything, all the tracks will need to be remade for motorcycles, and the lighting and graphics systems will of course not work unless there is an actual car on track, so they'll have to start from scratch there. Plus the cars in gt6 themselves won't even work with bikes in the game too so they'll all need to be remade, and the menus and ui simply won't work if you add anything extra so scrap those and start again. And don't get me started on the physics, which btw are absolutely perfect at the moment and therefore should not in any way be touched as any attempt to improve them, which overwise might happen if you introduced bikes to a non perfect game, would be completely futile!

Too bad, really. Ah well, at least now we know.

 

[another_jakhole]

About Free-Roam in GT5

I'm extremely curious. How much of this thread have you read? I've read 90% at least and since the start. I'm pretty sure it's the merging of two threads, too.

Four pages is enough for me.

I have better things to do than to read 64 pages of a thread, get over it.

For future reference, if you have not read the entirety of a thread, then you should really do a search before commenting on something that we have already gone over. You don't have to waste your time reading everything, but don't waste our time by neglecting to do a little bit of research on your own.

Yes everything, all the tracks will need to be remade for motorcycles, and the lighting and graphics systems will of course not work unless there is an actual car on track, so they'll have to start from scratch there. Plus the cars in gt6 themselves won't even work with bikes in the game too so they'll all need to be remade, and the menus and ui simply won't work if you add anything extra so scrap those and start again. And don't get me started on the physics, which btw are absolutely perfect at the moment and therefore should not in any way be touched as any attempt to improve them, which overwise might happen if you introduced bikes to a non perfect game, would be completely futile!

Too bad, really. Ah well, at least now we know.

ShiftingGears, this has been brought up already IN THIS THREAD.
Pay Attention.

So sinbad, why would PD have to start from scratch with ANYTHING, especially when they have prior experience with motorcycles?

 

[Samus]

You didn't detect that as sarcasm? Really?

 

[another_jakhole]

If that's that case, it showcases just how ridiculous some of these members try to downplay having an extra motorsport in the GT series.

Oh, and either way, that was to prove a point to ShiftingGears, probably one of the smartest trolls ever to have existed on GTPlanet.

 

[ShiftingGears]

About Free-Roam in GT5

For future reference, if you have not read the entirety of a thread, then you should really do a search before commenting on something that we have already gone over. You don't have to waste your time reading everything, but don't waste our time by neglecting to do a little bit of research on your own.

I conceded on the issue of Tourist Trophy - however as for your other point, I will offer my opinions as I please. I don't think there is any way bikes and cars will mix well on the same circuit on a game like Gran Turismo, exactly because PD models riders being tossed off.

They would be much better off keeping them separate, which they already do - by the existence of Tourist Trophy.

Oh, and either way, that was to prove a point to ShiftingGears, probably one of the smartest trolls ever to have existed on GTPlanet.

I am flattered.

 

[mjm23race]

They would be much better off keeping them separate, which they already do - by the existence of Tourist Trophy.

I am flattered.

That is like saying there is no reason to include old tracks in GT6 because of the existence of GT1-4.

Tourist Trophy isn't even on a current console much less if gt6 comes out on ps4. Tourist Trophy needs an update and more content, and the most logical and time and cost effective way to accomplish that would be to include it as part of GT6.

 

[ShiftingGears]

That is like saying there is no reason to include old tracks in GT6 because of the existence of GT1-4.

I wouldn't mind that actually, so many aspects of GT5 felt like such a second-hand experience, including tracks.

Tourist Trophy isn't even on a current console much less if gt6 comes out on ps4. Tourist Trophy needs an update and more content, and the most logical and time and cost effective way to accomplish that would be to include it as part of GT6.

Obviously PD would develop a second Tourist Trophy game, as I am assuming TT sold enough to establish a clear market for it.

I wouldn't want GT to become a jack of all trades and master of none in this aspect. I would rather TT be the GT equivalent of bike racing, especially if their implementation in GT6 would be separate anyway.

 

[analog]

Obviously PD would develop a second Tourist Trophy game, as I am assuming TT sold enough to establish a clear market for it.

Actually that's the crux, tried to find the actual sales figures but so far I can't find them.
But from what I've read so far Tourist Trophy didn't sell that much to automatically guarantee a successor, don't know how relatively good or bad it did compared to other bike games (nevermind GT) but the bike-game genre is and will probably remain a much smaller market than the car-game genre.

One thing might be that gamers in general don't warm to the idea of riding bikes and another thing might be that a lot of bikers or bike fans don't enjoy riding bikes in videogames (I often read from bikers, for example on this forum, that a videogame almost inherently can't replicate or simulate the bike riding experience as it does the car driving experience).

Now, where does that leave the Tourist Trophy-buying demographic? My guess is that most of that consists of GT-players with an interest in bikes as well or just curious/interested in a PD bike game.
And seeing how provocative mentioning bikes in GT for some strange reason seems to be, I'm betting a lot of GT-players didn't bother buying it in the first place making the market for TT2 limited.

I'm not a biker and have only a slight interest (compared to cars for example) in bikes but I did buy Tourist Trophy on day one as I coincidentally was looking for a bike-sim when TT was announced (tried several other titles before that which I found very disappointing) and loved it almost instantly despite the flaws it also had.
I loved riding all sorts of bikes (not found in the mainly specialized bike genre) with a good underlying GT-sourced physcis engine (not perfect but haven't found a bike game yet which does a better job) and right now I really miss it.

I've sort of lost hope we'll see TT2 soon or at all (might simply be too much of an investment) as a standalone title with a comprehensive singleplayer-mode as it might be too expensive, take too much time and too much work to still be a side-project by some dedicated bike-mad employees like the first one was.
But perhaps creating a selection of bikes to be used within a GT-game is something that's still a possibility and might be the last possibility for those who enjoyed TT to ride bikes again created by PD.
I can do without a full bike game, just create a DLC bike add-on pack for those who want it.

And to those objecting to bikes in GT, if it's a DLC add-on you won't even encounter them.
And if you're still objecting and don't like bikes at all, you should've also bought TT and make it a huge success so that we wouldn't even be having this discussion in the first place as then those who want them would be playing TT2 right now.

 

[Cote Dazur]

(I often read from bikers, for example on this forum, that a videogame almost inherently can't replicate or simulate the bike riding experience as it does the car driving experience).

I have to agree, beeing a rider and a driver, at least with the wheel and the pedals, some similarity is preserved as a SIM for a car, Also you ride the bike with your body not just an input on a device.
Never the less TT was/is fun.👍 and I wish their would be some sort of a sequel on PS3 and then PS4, independent or added to GT5/6


,

(just create a DLC bike add-on pack for those who want it.

And to those objecting to bikes in GT, if it's a DLC add-on you won't even encounter them.
And if you're still objecting and don't like bikes at all, you should've also bought TT and make it a huge success so that we wouldn't even be having this discussion in the first place as then those who want them would be playing TT2 right now.

I think the idea of the DLC would appease every one, biker put their money where their mouth is and those not interested just have to not buy the DLC. Brilliant.

 

[sinbad]

Actually that's the crux, tried to find the actual sales figures but so far I can't find them.
But from what I've read so far Tourist Trophy didn't sell that much to automatically guarantee a successor, don't know how relatively good or bad it did compared to other bike games (nevermind GT) but the bike-game genre is and will probably remain a much smaller market than the car-game genre.

One thing might be that gamers in general don't warm to the idea of riding bikes and another thing might be that a lot of bikers or bike fans don't enjoy riding bikes in videogames (I often read from bikers, for example on this forum, that a videogame almost inherently can't replicate or simulate the bike riding experience as it does the car driving experience).

Now, where does that leave the Tourist Trophy-buying demographic? My guess is that most of that consists of GT-players with an interest in bikes as well or just curious/interested in a PD bike game.
And seeing how provocative mentioning bikes in GT for some strange reason seems to be, I'm betting a lot of GT-players didn't bother buying it in the first place making the market for TT2 limited.

I'm not a biker and have only a slight interest (compared to cars for example) in bikes but I did buy Tourist Trophy on day one as I coincidentally was looking for a bike-sim when TT was announced (tried several other titles before that which I found very disappointing) and loved it almost instantly despite the flaws it also had.
I loved riding all sorts of bikes (not found in the mainly specialized bike genre) with a good underlying GT-sourced physcis engine (not perfect but haven't found a bike game yet which does a better job) and right now I really miss it.

I've sort of lost hope we'll see TT2 soon or at all (might simply be too much of an investment) as a standalone title with a comprehensive singleplayer-mode as it might be too expensive, take too much time and too much work to still be a side-project by some dedicated bike-mad employees like the first one was.
But perhaps creating a selection of bikes to be used within a GT-game is something that's still a possibility and might be the last possibility for those who enjoyed TT to ride bikes again created by PD.
I can do without a full bike game, just create a DLC bike add-on pack for those who want it.

And to those objecting to bikes in GT, if it's a DLC add-on you won't even encounter them.
And if you're still objecting and don't like bikes at all, you should've also bought TT and make it a huge success so that we wouldn't even be having this discussion in the first place as then those who want them would be playing TT2 right now.

I can't find the page, but I wanted to know the sales numbers a while back, and I'm sure it was just shy of 1 million, so not even up to the numbers of the minor GT releases such as concepts and prologues. It was a full price game unlike those titles, however.

I won't speculate as to whether that makes it worth it, but (since the blatant sarcasm was missed by some in my earlier post) the costs for PD would be nowhere near what it would cost a seperate developer to create an identical game from scratch, because so much obviously can be carried over from GT5.

If they release it as a full title, they can charge full price (at least initially). If it's dlc they can't charge as much, because you're not buying the tracks and ui etc again of course, but punters won't expect the numbers of bikes they would from a full game, distribution costs become far less, plus the sheer number of people with gt5 makes it a large target market. There would be gt5 players with no interest in bikes that buy bike dlc simply because it's there. The addition of bike dlc wouldn't hurt gt5 sales either, with rebranding of an "academy edition" style helping even more.

It's a totally different landscape from when TT was released. Personally, I'd hope for dlc because I prefer quality over quantity, and I honestly can't believe it wouldn't be viable for pd to do it.

Edit: sales numbers
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/2515/tourist-trophy-the-real-riding-simulator/

A little less than I recall the other page I saw stated.

 

[mjm23race]

And to those objecting to bikes in GT, if it's a DLC add-on you won't even encounter them.
And if you're still objecting and don't like bikes at all, you should've also bought TT and make it a huge success so that we wouldn't even be having this discussion in the first place as then those who want them would be playing TT2 right now.

I love that outlook, kind of ironic isn't it.

There must be some interest in bike games. THQ, Capcom, Milestone, and several others buy the license for Motogp and WSBK year after year which can't be cheap. Then they just pump out garbage that most serious gamers would turn their nose up to, they have zero marketing. But someone must be buying them to make it worthwhile year after year.

 

[NSXDriver]

Tourist Trophy isn't even on a current console much less if gt6 comes out on ps4. Tourist Trophy needs an update and more content, and the most logical and time and cost effective way to accomplish that would be to include it as part of GT6.

why would they include bikes in GT6 when they can sell them to you in another game (which already has a following) for another $59.99, it would never happen, did you forget PD is a business?

 

[sinbad]

why would they include bikes in GT6 when they can sell them to you in another game (which already has a following) for another $59.99, it would never happen, did you forget PD is a business?

Because they could sell perhaps just ten motorcycles for ~$20, with minimal distribution costs and no single player "progression" mode. Given how many people already have gt5, there is every likelihood imho that they could make more profit selling bikes as dlc for gt5. Especially if you add in people that buy gt5 because it has bikes in it. "GT5 Tourist Trophy Edition".

Compare that with how many bikes you'd need to put in a full TT2 game, plus all the other stuff, then factor in distribution costs, plus the fact that it would only be full price for a relatively short time.

They could always add another 20 bikes to gt5 3 months later and make a load more money too.

 

[Cote Dazur]

when they can sell them to you in another game

That is a big assumption, taking into account they did not release a TT2 with PS3, If they thought it could have been profitable as a busisness PD would have done it.
No doubt they will only do it if there is enough potential.

A bike rich GT6, will have on more attraction to some of us at a minimal cost and will make the new GT different than the other present offering.

 

[AleksandarSRB]

No bike in GT we have TT for that.

 

[Tom]

No bike in GT we have TT for that.

It's a case of if TT2 is even released though. I'd love to see it, but I can't right now.

 

[analog]

There must be some interest in bike games. THQ, Capcom, Milestone, and several others buy the license for Motogp and WSBK year after year which can't be cheap. Then they just pump out garbage that most serious gamers would turn their nose up to, they have zero marketing. But someone must be buying them to make it worthwhile year after year.

I've bought one of those SBK games a couple of years ago hoping it would offer something like TT but apart from the graphics perhaps I absolutely hated the physics (which are vital), also tried a recent MotoGP demo and that was the same story.
Yeah, there must be a stable market segment they represent but it surely isn't mine and if they're happy with what's offered it won't change much I guess.

No bike in GT we have TT for that.

Except there's no TT, that's the whole issue, I'll shut up as soon as they announce TT2 but since that's ever more unlikely to happen I'd like some bikes (just the bikes) in GT.

Pros: Optional DLC add-on package (don't like bikes? don't have to see them) only usable in dedicated online section or car vs bike rooms (filter options so you won't have to see them), no offline use apart from free run (no time 'wasted' on separate singleplayer mode or standalone game), bikefans happy/carfans-only won't even notice.

Cons: What exactly are the cons? You tell me.

 

[ZZ-II]

It's a case of if TT2 is even released though. I'd love to see it, but I can't right now.

don't think a TT2 will be released in the near future. there are more chances GT6 will include bikes.
i would like to see a few bikes, no need for hundreds or a thousand. arround 50-100 bikes would be nice

 

[sinbad]

Surely the only reason for not putting bikes in, in dlc for 5 or 6, is that they feel the time would be better spent elsewhere. That is, if instead of x number of bikes plus bike physics development, they made x number of cars because even amongst the ridiculous number of cars already there, the cars would actually return a greater profit.

 

[NSXDriver]

That is a big assumption, taking into account they did not release a TT2 with PS3, If they thought it could have been profitable as a busisness PD would have done it.
No doubt they will only do it if there is enough potential.

A bike rich GT6, will have on more attraction to some of us at a minimal cost and will make the new GT different than the other present offering.

it has nothing to do with being profitable, they never had the time or resources to do so during this gen, GT5 was in development for five years, and it still fell short of expectations, it's more about PD's lack of resources/staff than whether TT2 would be profitable, now that the groundwork for a next gen GT has been laid they may have the ability to work on other projects.

 

[daus26]

Yeah, you can't come here and pretend to be a business or marketing expert. It's not as simple as, "hey let's make two different games and get more out of it."

Tourist Trophy 2 was a side project. It was a game that was pretty much identical to GT4. I don't understand why you would want a separate TT2 game that would probably have the exact same tracks as GT6 would, unless you want PD to invest major resources and time away from GT, to make several unique bike tracks. In reality, they already have their books full with GT alone, plus possible Vita iteration. Imagine getting Tourist Trophy into the mix.

Unless PD can make TT2 very unique, with its own unique tracks and features (and again this is gonna take away some SERIOUS time/resource away from Gran Turismo), it's gonna get slammed hard for trying to be a full-fledged game selling at $59.99 where it could simply just be an extension or add-on. That's what motorcycles pretty much are; an add-on. That's why you don't see Burnout, Midnight Club, and Project Gothem making separate motorcycle games. PS2 was an exception because there was no way to add on bikes to the existing GT4, but a separate game.