Sebastian Vettel vs Lewis Hamilton

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ferrari_1996
  • 129 comments
  • 19,279 views

Hamilton vs Vettel

  • Lewis Hamilton

    Votes: 62 51.2%

  • Sebastian Vettel

    Votes: 33 27.3%

  • I Just Want To Vote!

    Votes: 26 21.5%
  • Total voters
    121
Er, lets not forget that Monza 2008 required all three title contenders to go out in Q2 qualifying due to mistakes in strategy or just plain bad driving (qualifying was wet too)..therefore giving a completely different front of the grid than normal. So although yes, STR did sort out a better setup and car that weekend than normal, circumstances also favoured them quite a bit too.

Having most of the top cars start mid-pack helped Vettel build the lead he ended up with. He also had Kovalainen to help hold up everyone as McLaren once again screwed Heikki over with a heavy fuel load that race.

That race win was a mixture of luck, preparation and skill, but certainly Vettel was very good that day and later that year.

Bourdais was equally unlucky as he ended up starting effectively half a lap down after he stalled on the grid. But even so, if the STR was so fast that day, surely he could have managed better? In the end he didn't, so to say it was all car is a bit much too. Just like when people refer to Spa 2009 was all down to the Force India being better...Sutil proved it wasn't that much better, it was as much to do with Fisi being a Spa-specialist too.
 
Yes cant wait to see how the cars perform with these new rule changes .

Definetely wasnt knocking Vettel , he is a great talent , im just saying Lewis is better.

It looks like Vettel will be back to back champ , Lewis should have been a 2 time champ , it really sucks to get beat by 1 pt . Schumi over Damon Hill was the worst 1 pt defeat i ever saw. Lewis will have his work cut out next season , hopefully it will be more competitive
 
Lol I love the people criticising Vettel's overtaking after some of the screw up's Hamilton has done over the past few years. As for the Toro Rosso win in Monza, it wasn't just that. He finished several times in the points over the season and finished 8th overall that season, only behind the Mclarens, Ferraris, BMW's etc. So he was doing well in an inferior car all season consistently :)
 
Who's going to watch the qualifying for the British Grand Prix? And who do you think will be the fastest qualifyer? I think Vettel will be on pole. Who will win the race on Sunday? Let the discussion begin!!!
 
PeterJB
So being British innately makes him a better driver? :rolleyes:
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I've been down this road before. It just ended up in a huge debate about national bias that turned into an arguement. I recommend you avoid the subject as a whole... But that's just my opinion.
 
PeterJB
So being British innately makes him a better driver? :rolleyes:
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Did you miss this :p?

This thread is not very useful. No one will ever know which one is best until they are both in the same team with equal status, which is why I voted for the third option.
 
I have a feeling this thread might get some use again this year...

However, I'll be the irritating guy once again and do some predictions. As it seems at the moment Hamilton has got a competitive car for a change while Vettel isn't off quite as well. If this leads to Hamilton winning and Vettel losing I'm 100% certain we'll see a lot of talk about how Hamilton is God's gift to F1 and Vettel is a lousy driver. I also doubt many people will complain about how few overtakes Hamilton does if he leads from start to finish.

Now, could someone explain without national or any other bias how it always goes so that when Hamilton wins its his skills and when he loses it's the car, whereas when Vettel wins it's the car and when he loses it's (the lack of) his skills? We've already seen that Hamilton is more or less equal to Button (of whom many people said that his championship was pure luck) whereas Vettel's bad moments are those when Webber (who used to be considered one of the greats in the sport) can beat him. In the end neither of them are good enough to consistently win fair races with a noticably inferior car and both of them have won their championships in cars that were the best or the second-best on the grid.
 
Greycap
However, I'll be the irritating guy once again and do some predictions. As it seems at the moment Hamilton has got a competitive car for a change while Vettel isn't off quite as well. If this leads to Hamilton winning and Vettel losing I'm 100% certain we'll see a lot of talk about how Hamilton is God's gift to F1 and Vettel is a lousy driver. I also doubt many people will complain about how few overtakes Hamilton does if he leads from start to finish.
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Only thing I'd say to this is Vettel was out qualified by Webber who had no KERS. I believe Hamilton is the superior driver anyway. Vettel has had the car that is miles better and won, if Hamilton does the same so be it. I believe in equal cars Hamilton would win.

The reason I think this is not because Vettel is bad, but Hamilton beat Alonso. At the time the man was a two time champ and considered the best. Vettel hasn't done that. Only reasoning here.

I think thats where the 'Webber ruler' comes from. Webber is the strongest team-mate Vettel has had and in a superior car his only barometer. If Webber is equal or near then it's a good judgement of how good Vettel is. In '10 Webber was close. In '11 he wasn't, BUT that was apparently due to Webber not getting along with the new tyres. Is it just a coincidence that now the tyres are now closer (according to Sam Michael of Mclaren) to the '10 spec one's he beats him?
 
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Hang on, what's wrong with Webber? Ok, not the ultimate driver for consistencey but before Vettel came along, Webber was one of the better midfield drivers - usually scoring consistently well and qualifying his car better than it should be.
Now suddenly people consider Webber a measuring stick and a poor one at that?

I think Webber has been a harder teammate to beat than say Fisichella or Kovalainen have been for Alonso and Hamilton.

That said, clearly Webber has been lacking in 2011 and wasn't anywhere near Vettel all year. But I don't agree with this consensus that has appeared that Webber is somehow an indication that Vettel might not be great. If Webber gives Vettel a run for his money or even beats him this year, I don't think it reflects badly on Vettel so much as it vindicates Webber.
 
Vettel > Webber = Heidfeld > Raikkonen =< Massa < Alonso = Hamilton

Therefore, Grosjean is the best?

The point is, nobody knows who is better, all we can do is baseless speculation.
 
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Ardius
Hang on, what's wrong with Webber? Ok, not the ultimate driver for consistencey but before Vettel came along, Webber was one of the better midfield drivers - usually scoring consistently well and qualifying his car better than it should be.
Now suddenly people consider Webber a measuring stick and a poor one at that?

I think Webber has been a harder teammate to beat than say Fisichella or Kovalainen have been for Alonso and Hamilton.

That said, clearly Webber has been lacking in 2011 and wasn't anywhere near Vettel all year. But I don't agree with this consensus that has appeared that Webber is somehow an indication that Vettel might not be great. If Webber gives Vettel a run for his money or even beats him this year, I don't think it reflects badly on Vettel so much as it vindicates Webber.
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Of course, but Webber is never going to be one of the 'greats'. So if he beats Vettel then what does that say about Vettel?

Put it this way, is Hamilton better than Webber?
 
Judging by Hamilton's form lately, I'd actually say that him and Webber are pretty close - not quite as scandalous as we might have thought a couple of years ago!
Webber is a bit more inconsistent but Hamilton has shown lately that he can look as lost as Mark when the situation goes against him.
 
I believe the finishing order today is where they rank on current form. But take each driver at their peak, their limit and their best i'd go Hamilton, Vettel, Button then Webber.
 
^I'd agree with that but in the end, its not just about a driver's peak, but how he is overall. And sadly for Hamilton these days, he's making too much of his lows when they aren't really that bad! (even today, 3rd isn't exactly terrible!)

Perhaps the difference between Button & Vettel and Hamilton & Webber is that the former have supreme confidence, even in defeat. Whereas the latter appear to lose a lot of face in defeat. This exact point proves that F1 is a "sport" in that you need to be a sportsman in mind to win championships.
 
Ardius
^I'd agree with that but in the end, its not just about a driver's peak, but how he is overall. And sadly for Hamilton these days, he's making too much of his lows when they aren't really that bad! (even today, 3rd isn't exactly terrible!)
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He didn't see it as finishing 3rd though, he saw it as throwing away a win, which it kinda was to be fair, the Safety Car was unfortunate timing. I agree he could've acted less like a child, though.

I would still be tempted to say Hamilton would win in a one-on-one race. I have huge respect for Vettel and think anyone who says he doesn't deserve his wins or he is talentless is being silly, frankly. At the beginning of last season I did have doubts on his ability to actually overtake, but he proved most of the naysayers wrong with some brilliant moves.

That being said, I've always liked Hamilton since his debut. That 2007 season was incredible and another example of McLaren snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I just feel in a one-on-one contest Hamilton would be braver, he doesn't seem to be concerned with crashing out, because if the move works out, he's happy. I'm not sure Vettel has that mindset.

I'm sure someone will come along and pull apart what I've said with statistics and replays and whatnot, but so be it :P
 
Greycap
Now, could someone explain without national or any other bias how it always goes so that when Hamilton wins its his skills and when he loses it's the car, whereas when Vettel wins it's the car and when he loses it's (the lack of) his skills? We've already seen that Hamilton is more or less equal to Button (of whom many people said that his championship was pure luck) whereas Vettel's bad moments are those when Webber (who used to be considered one of the greats in the sport) can beat him. In the end neither of them are good enough to consistently win fair races with a noticably inferior car and both of them have won their championships in cars that were the best or the second-best on the grid.
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Hamilton has more opportunities to show off skill than Vettel does during his victories because most of the time he has climb his way up since he screws it up so much. Vettel doesn't make nearly as many mistakes, but when he does he becomes unstuck and loses focus. He has shown that he race when he needs to, but with such amazing speed, that doesn't come by very often.

Pretty much all champions have won in either the best or second-best car on the grid, and the only time races are won in cars that aren't is when the faster cars are out of it, or the conditions are bizarre. If someone starts winning consistently in an inferior car, it becomes hard to still consider that car inferior.
 
Put all the F1 drivers in a GP2 car and then compare them. The problem with comparing them in F1 cars is that they are all different in specs. One car is clearly superior to another. With GP2 you can get some parity at least.
 
This is a tough one:

My heart says Hamilton
My head says Vettel

I think Hamilton is an out and out racer, Vettel is very technical and precise. Having said that it isn't black and white (no pun intended). There are times when Vettel creates and exploits opportunities and there are time when Hamilton runs a great strategy.

There's probably 0.0001 in it! To which side I'm not sure (I'm fence sitting).
 

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