Shooting at the Pennsylvania Republican Presidential Election Rally

[Imari]

Reading comprehension is key.

The word I specifically used was “drafted” into the military, as in a “draft card” that young men in the United States have to fill out when they turn 18.

I’m all for women being in the military, law enforcement ect. But I’m 100% against women being forced into the military, like young men are apt to, in the United States.

Nah, mate. That changes nothing.

You're against young women being drafted, but you're okay with it for young men? The idea that the draft is okay for one sex but not okay for the other is just as dumb as the idea that being in the military is okay for one sex but not the other. It's still sexist and it's still hilariously incorrect purely on the basis of how a modern military is structured. It's the same stupidity, but in a slightly different frock.

Even ignoring all the physically non-demanding ways in which people serve in the military, men aren't universally imposing physical specimens. Some of them are even quite weak and frail. And the moment you start applying restrictions on which men get drafted and which services they get put in based on physical capability, you realise that actually you could have just applied the same conditions to everyone regardless of sex.

Have you got any more excuses for your misogyny and refusal to treat people equally based on their skills, experience and ability? Or are you going to keep writing people off purely because they weren't "lucky" enough to be born with a twig and berries?

As far as the rest of what I said, I stand by purely on the scope of whom they have to protect. Am I against women in the Secret Service? Of course not.

But for the safety of our past and present elected leaders, I personally would only want the best of the best (and yes, for me this includes physical attributes), protecting the likes of Biden, Obama, Trump, Pelosi, and their families.

I’ve been on waaaay too many police-related calls that have gone sideways, to see what happens when you have cops that aren’t physically up to the task be them fat and out of shape, not strong enough, not big enough, ect. People get hurt. Civilians get hurt. Wouldn’t want that to happen to America’s most important figures

Right. You only want the best of the best. And you don't see how a woman could ever be an excellent agent when a man was also in the picture. To you, the man will always be a better choice. Otherwise you would have stopped at "I'm not against women in the Secret Service".

When you talk about cops that aren't physically up to the task because they're fat and out of shape, how many of them are men? Is it even relevant what genitalia they're packing, or is the real problem that they're fat and out of shape? It's about being able to do the job. There's nothing about having a vagina that makes someone suddenly incapable of protecting a politician.

Honestly, I thought you'd see the problem when it was pointed out to you. If you have to put a "but" after any statement that you're not against women, you kinda are. You're willing to grant them some concessions, but you're not willing to openly give them exactly the same opportunities that you would give a man.

I guess you can lead a horse to water, but you can't undo decades of explicit and implicit training that women are second class citizens.

 

[inCloud]

First reaction in media is pure gold.

 

[MatskiMonk]

"For example, under the agreement, China will be able to increase these emissions by a staggering number of years — 13. They can do whatever they want for 13 years. Not us. India makes its participation contingent on receiving billions and billions and billions of dollars in foreign aid from developed countries. There are many other examples. But the bottom line is that the Paris Accord is very unfair, at the highest level, to the United States."

China's CO2 emission per capita are half what the USA's are, their emissions are of course higher overall - because they have an extra billion people... and then you have to consider how much of the developed world off-shores it's CO2 emissions by buying from China and leaving them with the associated Carbon footprint. Trumps reasoning here is little better than an 8 year olds.

I did find it interesting that these people who care soo much about "inclusion" hate Trump for some reason.

Inclusivity doesn't mean defending every individual within a group irrespective of their behaviour, it means not excluding that group in the first place - and last time I checked wealthy, white, able-bodied males did okay in that respect.

As a figurehead for a party that wants to squash the agency of groups of individuals, he should anger anyone that respects peoples basic rights.

 

[McLaren]

I don't follow it. But I did find it interesting that these people who care soo much about "inclusion" hate Trump for some reason.

Maybe because the reason is Trump is anything but "inclusion". People in his circle literally want to rewrite what constitutes a US birth citizen so they can deport people legally born here. Others in his circle like Josh Hawley just said he believes in Christian Nationalism which is writing laws as they interpret them from the Bible. They believe that allows them to ban gay marriage. In 2022, Republican Senator Mike Braun said legalizing interracial marriage was a mistake & that states should get to decide if black & white people can get married. Braun heavily supports Trump.

 

[Joey D]

Yes I am going to sit there and say that Trump isn't a threat to Democracy. The people are. The left are using Trump as a figurehead for these crimes, even though he didn't actually commit any of them. Trump did not break his supporters into the White House - a crazy mob comprised of all sorts broke in. Not just Trump supporters.

Nobody broke into the White House. Do you mean the Capitol? Because the insurrectionists broke into the Capitol on January 6th. The last time the White House was invaded, it was the British, and they lit it on fire.

And you don't think the insurrectionists weren't Trump supporters? Their sole purpose was to go to the Capitol to overturn the election because Trump told them to. There was no reason for non-Trump supporters to be there because the rest of us knew that people lose elections and power is transferred peacefully. There may have been foreign actors there, I don't know, but in terms of average people no. You have to be an extremist even to consider trying to overthrow the country.

As for Trump committing crimes, he's already been tried and found guilty of 34 of them. More are pending. The Democrats didn't force Trump to commit any of those crimes either, nor are they using him as a scapegoat.

Didn't Democrat run states have an extremely high number of deaths per capita compared to Republican ones? Trump didn't make the rules for each state did he?

No. Red states were worse off than blue states across the board. Initially, blue states were hit harder, but they tended to be more populated with larger urban areas. Put a large number of people together during a respiratory virus pandemic and chances are things will spread quickly (New York) but have people all living in BFE and your spread is slower (Wyoming).

The politics of COVID-19: Differences between U.S. red and blue states in COVID-19 regulations and deaths

The study investigated infection variables and control strategies in 2020 and 2021 and their influence on COVID-19 deaths in the United States, with a particular focus on comparing red (Republican) and blue (Democratic) states. The analysis reviewed cumulative ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Trump certainly contributed to states' policies because Republican governors listened to Trump instead of medical professionals. Florida is a prime example of what happens when you let politicians make health decisions instead of the medical community.

That climate agreement was a load of crap.

No it's not. There needs to be some agreement among countries to tackle climate change and that was it. Is it the best solution? No, of course not, but it's better than nothing. Trump doesn't really accept climate change either or, at the very least, downplays it considerably. Climate change is the single greatest threat to the globe and any politician that doesn't take it seriously shouldn't be in power. They can debate the causes and the role humans play in it, but to flat-out think it's a hoax is dangerous.

 

[Blitz24]

Maybe because the reason is Trump is anything but "inclusion". People in his circle literally want to rewrite what constitutes a US birth citizen so they can deport people legally born here. Others in his circle like Josh Hawley just said he believes in Christian Nationalism which is writing laws as they interpret them from the Bible. They believe that allows them to ban gay marriage. In 2022, Republican Senator Mike Braun said legalizing interracial marriage was a mistake & that states should get to decide if black & white people can get married. Braun heavily supports Trump.

Of course they will carve out an exception for Thomas.

 

[McLaren]

Of course they will carve out an exception for Thomas.

He's 76 & one of the two Justices people think may be replaced by the next administration.


He'd probably go along with it just because he's old & set for life, anyway.

 

[Blitz24]

He's 76 & one of the two Justices people think may be replaced by the next administration.


He'd probably go along with it just because he's old & set for life, anyway.

Forgot to mention another prominent person affected, JD Vance.

 

[Brett]

Of course they will carve out an exception for Thomas.

Only as long as he is useful to them.

 

[Tornado]

Posting a statement from the Trump White House as proof of something about the Paris Climate Accords is like sourcing Philip Morris when talking about advertising ethics.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Nah, mate. That changes nothing.

You're against young women being drafted, but you're okay with it for young men? The idea that the draft is okay for one sex but not okay for the other is just as dumb as the idea that being in the military is okay for one sex but not the other. It's still sexist and it's still hilariously incorrect purely on the basis of how a modern military is structured. It's the same stupidity, but in a slightly different frock.

Even ignoring all the physically non-demanding ways in which people serve in the military, men aren't universally imposing physical specimens. Some of them are even quite weak and frail. And the moment you start applying restrictions on which men get drafted and which services they get put in based on physical capability, you realise that actually you could have just applied the same conditions to everyone regardless of sex.

Have you got any more excuses for your misogyny and refusal to treat people equally based on their skills, experience and ability? Or are you going to keep writing people off purely because they weren't "lucky" enough to be born with a twig and berries?

Right. You only want the best of the best. And you don't see how a woman could ever be an excellent agent when a man was also in the picture. To you, the man will always be a better choice. Otherwise you would have stopped at "I'm not against women in the Secret Service".

When you talk about cops that aren't physically up to the task because they're fat and out of shape, how many of them are men? Is it even relevant what genitalia they're packing, or is the real problem that they're fat and out of shape? It's about being able to do the job. There's nothing about having a vagina that makes someone suddenly incapable of protecting a politician.

Honestly, I thought you'd see the problem when it was pointed out to you. If you have to put a "but" after any statement that you're not against women, you kinda are. You're willing to grant them some concessions, but you're not willing to openly give them exactly the same opportunities that you would give a man.

I guess you can lead a horse to water, but you can't undo decades of explicit and implicit training that women are second class citizens.

Hey buddy, I have ZERO issues with my complicated and admittedly hypocritical stances as they translate via text. But I’m fine with that, because my stances are based off real world experience and not some make believe rose-colored, idealistic, twitter-influenced world. If you have been following closely, you’ll see that I’ve included myself in every statement of how big I think someone ought to be in order to protect a president that lifts or not, is at a minimum of 6’2”. I don’t have the tangible’s - much like myself at 5’10” with a 4.6-40, didn’t have the tangible’s to fulfill my dream of playing Division 1 college football.


And no, under no circumstances in America (keeping in mind I know they do things differently in other countries), should a woman be FORCED into the military. If they want to enlist, good on them. But the potential to be drafted into the military to fight a war is the burden of men, the way I see it. In that scenario which we haven’t seen since Vietnam, the women need to be here holding down the fort, because quite frankly, they’re better at it then men are.


FWIW, I have an issue with fat firemen too - of which we have a lot of. Up until about 2007, we had mandated physicals where part of that, was fitting into the parameters of a Size-age-weight chart. If you were outside of said parameters AND couldn’t pass a standardized physical agility test, you were taken out of the field and placed on a department-mandated workout program until you could. But alas, a lot of the fat kids on the department got together and filed harassment and discrimination suits, and there went that requirement, and the subsequent return of the fatties. And to that, it’s not right. It’s not fair to the fellow firefighters that trust them with their life, and it sure as hell ain’t fair to the citizens that pay their salaries and depend on them

 

[Danoff]

And no, under no circumstances in America (keeping in mind I know they do things differently in other countries), should a woman be FORCED into the military. If they want to enlist, good on them. But the potential to be drafted into the military to fight the war is the job of men, the way I see it. In that scenario which we haven’t seen since Vietnam, the women need to be here holding down the fort, because quite frankly, they’re better at it then men are.

You'll find men and women that are wasted as soldiers, and others who are excellent at it. The draft just doesn't make sense, for men or women.

 

[Yard_Sale]

You'll find men and women that are wasted as soldiers, and others who are excellent at it. The draft just doesn't make sense, for men or women.

Agreed.

I think the draft is still necessary, as a “just in case” scenario. And call me old-fashioned, but much like one getting their Driver’s license at 16, a young woman having her first period, filling out a draft card is a right of passage for young men. But admittedly, maybe it was just a pivotal point in my life and I’m looking at it with my own rose-colored glasses, because that’s when the world became real to me, as I turned 18 and had to fill out my draft card two days after 9/11. I remember being scared to death at the time

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Agreed.

I think the draft is still necessary, as a “just in case” scenario. And call me old-fashioned, but much like one getting their Driver’s license at 16, a young woman having her first period, filling out a draft card is a right of passage for young men. But admittedly, maybe it was just a pivotal point in my life and I’m looking at it with my own rose-colored glasses, because that’s when the world became real to me, as I turned 18 and had to fill out my draft card two days after 9/11. I remember being scared to death at the time

Rite of passage? I don't even remember doing mine. (Not to say I didn't do it, but it was so unremarkable I don't remember anything about it)

 

[Danoff]

I remember being scared to death at the time

Have you met a therapist to unpack your desire to inflict this fear on others as a rite of passage? Why would you want people to be scared to death?

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Some more details of the shooting:

Sniper took picture of Trump rally shooter, saw him use rangefinder before assassination attempt, source says

The sniper radioed to a command post, according to a local law enforcement officer.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Yard_Sale]

Have you met a therapist to unpack your desire to inflict this fear on others as a rite of passage? Why would you want people to be scared to death?

What? You read exactly why I found it so significant to me at the time, right?

Regardless, what one construes as a rite of passage, or significant event or milestone in their life, is in the eye of the beholder. Furthermore for me it was a wake up call that even though I might not consider myself an adult, the government sure as hell does…and it turns out that there was about to be more to my life than just playing football, surfing, and chasing skirts. That if I screw up majorly, the law considers me an adult

 

[Kriptical]

Dunno. I’d have been a bit unnerved myself signing the draft card in the immediate shadow of 9/11. Who the hell knew at that point.

@Yard_Sale so emt? Usually your sort of pragmatism and err coexisting views is forged from a pretty short list of experiences. Nothing like not being in the game, but having a front row seat. Im with you on fit req’s too. Makes no sense. Sure long term it will be a self correcting error..but how many people will get maimed, dead or otherwised in the meantime

…although not gonna lie, fat guy flubbing a hopped fence never got old. Kinda miss the super baggy low rider pants too, because when they got caught up, there was a rare chance of the self atomic wedgie.

Funny. Seems like as the vietnam guys faded away so did the apprehension of the draft.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Dunno. I’d have been a bit unnerved myself signing the draft card in the immediate shadow of 9/11. Who the hell knew at that point.

@Yard_Sale so emt? Usually your sort of pragmatism and err coexisting views is forged from a pretty short list of experiences. Nothing like not being in the game, but having a front row seat. Im with you on fit req’s too. Makes no sense. Sure long term it will be a self correcting error..but how many people will get maimed, dead or otherwised in the meantime

…although not gonna lie, fat guy flubbing a hopped fence never got old. Kinda miss the super baggy low rider pants too, because when they got caught up, there was a rare chance of the self atomic wedgie.

Funny. Seems like as the vietnam guys faded away so did the apprehension of the draft.

Fireman - which I’m also required to have an EMT level of medical training as a minimum. But if you been doing the job for a couple decades, you pick up some stuff along the way

 

[Danoff]

What? You read exactly why I found it so significant to me at the time, right?

Regardless, what one construes as a rite of passage, or significant event or milestone in their life, is in the eye of the beholder. Furthermore for me it was a wake up call that even though I might not consider myself an adult, the government sure as hell does…and it turns out that there was about to be more to my life than just playing football, surfing, and chasing skirts. That if I screw up majorly, the law considers me an adult

So you brought that up for no reason?

You brought up "scared to death", presumably for a reason that was contextually relevant. You still, even with this paragraph, seems to be suggesting the same. That you need a "wake up call", that life is not all about "playing football" and "chasing skirts". It sounds like "scared to death" IS actually what you found significant and IS actually want you want others to experience.

Do you think signing a draft card, or even having a draft, is the best way to achieve this?

What I'd like you to do is consider what you're saying, why you're saying it, and whether it makes sense. Your posts are very stream-of-consciousness, which is fine. But they need to come along with introspection.

This is what you've communicated to me thus far on this issue:
Thesis: That signing a draft card is important for young men (not women), for reasons other than the draft.
Supporting Rationale: Because it is scary that your government thinks of you as an adult, and part of that fear is the fear of being pressed into military service in a war. Additionally, this fear is healthy and needed to be a properly adjusted adult.

If you organize it in this way, you can see some obviously cracks in these arguments. Why is this specific to men? It is not. Why would this be justification to treat men as potential slaves of war? It is not. Both of those are readily apparent. And so what we're left with is the notion that because YOU did it this way and you had these specific feelings that you consider positive in some respect, that you think that others should also do it this way so that they can turn out like you.

Again, when you organize it this way you can see some cracks in the argument. Are you really representative of how others OUGHT to turn out? Would this event be perceived in the same way for others?

I'm quite certain that there are healthier ways for men and women to understand what it means to be an adult and have responsibilities in an age-appropriate way than to tell 18 year old men (only) that they might need to be slaves in a war in a far away land for purposes they do not support or have a say in. And since that is true, your anecdote and its apparent support of a draft seems misplaced.

It's almost as though you meant to say something like "I agree that the draft doesn't make sense. But it served a purpose for me personally that some other kind of instruction would need to fill". That would be an easier conversation to have.

 

[Kriptical]

Fireman - which I’m also required to have an EMT level of medical training as a minimum. But if you been doing the job for a couple decades, you pick up some stuff along the way

So close..
Did a job for Gore which let me play around in a burn house for a couple days. That was a blast. But yeah, your gear sucks. Dunno how someone gets fat hauling all of that. Sweat my balls off and im 6’2” and not soft…not in shape either but..still!

..Pretty sure I wouldn’t do anything to make breathing any harder either. But gas masks get on my nerves..your gears in an entirely different ballpark.

 

[Yard_Sale]

So you brought that up for no reason?

You brought up "scared to death", presumably for a reason that was contextually relevant. You still, even with this paragraph, seems to be suggesting the same. That you need a "wake up call", that life is not all about "playing football" and "chasing skirts". It sounds like "scared to death" IS actually what you found significant and IS actually want you want others to experience.

Do you think signing a draft card, or even having a draft, is the best way to achieve this?

What I'd like you to do is consider what you're saying, why you're saying it, and whether it makes sense. Your posts are very stream-of-consciousness, which is fine. But they need to come along with introspection.

This is what you've communicated to me thus far on this issue:
Thesis: That signing a draft card is important for young men (not women), for reasons other than the draft.
Supporting Rationale: Because it is scary that your government thinks of you as an adult, and part of that fear is the fear of being pressed into military service in a war. Additionally, this fear is healthy and needed to be a properly adjusted adult.

If you organize it in this way, you can see some obviously cracks in these arguments. Why is this specific to men? It is not. Why would this be justification to treat men as potential slaves of war? It is not. Both of those are readily apparent. And so what we're left with is the notion that because YOU did it this way and you had these specific feelings that you consider positive in some respect, that you think that others should also do it this way so that they can turn out like you.

Again, when you organize it this way you can see some cracks in the argument. Are you really representative of how others OUGHT to turn out? Would this event be perceived in the same way for others?

I'm quite certain that there are healthier ways for men and women to understand what it means to be an adult and have responsibilities in an age-appropriate way than to tell 18 year old men (only) that they might need to be slaves in a war in a far away land for purposes they do not support or have a say in. And since that is true, your anecdote and its apparent support of a draft seems misplaced.

It's almost as though you meant to say something like "I agree that the draft doesn't make sense. But it served a purpose for me personally that some other kind of instruction would need to fill". That would be an easier conversation to have.

I represent no one in my opinions (wether it’s whom I work for, or any other person’s personal interpretation or convictions) other than myself as it relates to this online forum.


But I appreciate your comprehensive synopses


Edit:

You’re not originally from America, are you?….or your either much younger than me.

Regardless, “Contextually relevant”in the context that you speak of, totally leaves out the 9/11/(01) date that I referenced , and the general Temperature (both real and in hindsight, perceived) that surrounded America after that for a time being

 

[Keef]

Task and Purpose has a pretty good video summarizing the events and operations that we know of so far. Basically, local cops were looking for the guy minutes before shots were fired. The local cop who was hoisted up to peer onto the rooftop acted totally reasonably because he literally had a rifle in his face and zero ability to defend or attack. It seems the biggest issue is a breakdown in understanding of whose responsibility that building was - SS says it was local's, locals say it was SS. Also, there are rules of engagement in place.



Seems to me like the easiest way to prevent this could've been to have overhead drones constantly watching movements and reporting in real time. Would've been very easy to see a lone person wandering someplace suspicious, especially one climbing on a roof, and their location could've been pinpointed and confirmed in an instant.

 

[deththrasher]

SS dun goofed

 

[Yard_Sale]

Task and Purpose has a pretty good video summarizing the events and operations that we know of so far. Basically, local cops were looking for the guy minutes before shots were fired. The local cop who was hoisted up to peer onto the rooftop acted totally reasonably because he literally had a rifle in his face and zero ability to defend or attack. It seems the biggest issue is a breakdown in understanding of whose responsibility that building was - SS says it was local's, locals say it was SS. Also, there are rules of engagement in place.



Seems to me like the easiest way to prevent this could've been to have overhead drones constantly watching movements and reporting in real time. Would've been very easy to see a lone person wandering someplace suspicious, especially one climbing on a roof, and their location could've been pinpointed and confirmed in an instant.

Absolutely rediculous.

Sounds like it was a massive failure on all levels in regards to accountability, ownership, initiative and bureaucracy.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Task and Purpose has a pretty good video summarizing the events and operations that we know of so far. Basically, local cops were looking for the guy minutes before shots were fired. The local cop who was hoisted up to peer onto the rooftop acted totally reasonably because he literally had a rifle in his face and zero ability to defend or attack. It seems the biggest issue is a breakdown in understanding of whose responsibility that building was - SS says it was local's, locals say it was SS. Also, there are rules of engagement in place.



Seems to me like the easiest way to prevent this could've been to have overhead drones constantly watching movements and reporting in real time. Would've been very easy to see a lone person wandering someplace suspicious, especially one climbing on a roof, and their location could've been pinpointed and confirmed in an instant.

They could've also had the countersniper team on the rooftop instead of inside the building the shooter was on. Beavercountian.com reports that due to lack of manpower, the team also did not have spotters.

 

[DioEmsti]

He's trolling, genius. That's not the shooter.

Did you forget the part where that guy is alive & the shooter is dead?

Edit* That guy has already realize how much he screwed the pooch trying to be cute.

That's some good trolling right there then because afair I looked up his name as soon as I saw the first media outlets mentioning it and the instagram account with that video showed it was posted "45minutes ago". This troll works so fast he should get hired by the FBI.

Regardless that's a great impersonation of your average deranged liberal on tik tok is it not? full of blind hatred after years of being conditioned and poisoned by liberal media and irresponsible celebs. But the FBI is still looking at the motives, obviously it can't be the mentioned above right poor guy must've been denied a selfie with Trump or something and drove him to do this

 

[McLaren]

That's some good trolling right there then because afair I looked up his name as soon as I saw the first media outlets mentioning it and the instagram account with that video showed it was posted "45minutes ago". This troll works so fast he should get hired by the FBI.

The media jumping to conclusions in the first 5 minutes? Shocking.

Regardless that's a great impersonation of your average deranged liberal on tik tok is it not? full of blind hatred after years of being conditioned and poisoned by liberal media and irresponsible celebs.

Anyone reading your posts on here can ironically come to the same conclusion of yourself once you flip certain words.

But the FBI is still looking at the motives, obviously it can't be the mentioned above right poor guy must've been denied a selfie with Trump or something and drove him to do this

Maybe he was just one of those righteous conservatives who believe in killing pedophiles? Since we're just throwing out assumptions.

 

[Yard_Sale]

So close..
Did a job for Gore which let me play around in a burn house for a couple days. That was a blast. But yeah, your gear sucks. Dunno how someone gets fat hauling all of that. Sweat my balls off and im 6’2” and not soft…not in shape either but..still!

..Pretty sure I wouldn’t do anything to make breathing any harder either. But gas masks get on my nerves..your gears in an entirely different ballpark.

Wait a second..

Civilians don’t just Willy-nilly get put into flash containers for a few days. What the hell is it that you do??

 

[Danoff]

You’re not originally from America, are you?….or your either much younger than me.

I'm 43. The draft signing you talk about puts you at about 40. I'm from America. At the time of 9/11 I was in Texas.

Regardless, “Contextually relevant”in the context that you speak of, totally leaves out the 9/11/(01) date that I referenced , and the general Temperature (both real and in hindsight, perceived) that surrounded America after that for a time being

I remember it well, and it was in my mind when I wrote my last post.