So what's new Physics wise?

[cpp214]

GT5 physics may be improved, but they are not even in the same league as iRacing. iRacing is and has been the benchmark in sim racing physics for a couple of years now. Netkar Pro is okay, but it's not in the same league either. It's a notch below Live for Speed really.

And iRacing is REDOING their tire model? Not hardly. They are constantly improving their tire model--just as they constantly improve their sim every 3 months with updates. You can actually feel what all 4 tires are doing in iRacing, and you can feel every bump in the road because all the tracks are laser scanned. Name one track in Gran Turismo that has been laser scanned...and if you can, show me the proof, because I want to know how much they are paying to have it done, as it's highway robbery. You can't feel every bump and imperfection in the track as you can with iRacing. This is why iRacing has the best FFB in any racing game--you can feel every bump in the road and you can feel what is going on with the car better than any sim out there.

You can push like a madman and take all sorts of unrealistic liberties with the cars in GT games. That's not the case in iRacing. It's a white-knuckle driving experience that always keeps you on your toes, and you never feel quite like you can push the car to the max--the physics are too realistic and punish you accordingly for taking too many liberties with the car.

And as far as the quality of driving in iRacing goes--99% of the drivers in iRacing drive cleanly and courteously, it's not a demolition derby like online racing in Gran Turismo Prologue. There is a safety rating system, an actual mechanism for reporting unsportsmanlike driving, and a driver rating system that groups drivers of similar skill level. There is an actual Sporting Code that governs online racing and chat behavior, and it is followed very closely for the most part. People who don't play by the code don't hang around long, either because they weren't serious about sim racing in the first place, or because they are weeded out by iRacing staff.

GT5 will be more "fun" than iRacing, but to compare it as a "sim" to iRacing is laughable.

 

[SLAPHAPPYFRANKY]

Putting it simply - GT5P is rubbish compared to GT5, if the demos are any indication. They are only comparable in visual style and quality. It's as if Kaz has finally figured out proper vehicle dynamics, steering feel and so on. I wouldn't be surprised if it is in part due to his recent racing experiences.

I believe it comes down to the system will let him.

This from here down is my opinion.

Take GT3 it has little cars(150 in total) and tracks.
The menu system was simple, but really great.
The physics are actually good, reminds me of Enthusia. I cant use my G25 wheel on GT3 as I can on Enthusia since the GT3 doesnt let me use the full steering angle at speeds above a certain number. Its a dumb glitch and really suks if its possible to fix this I'd like to know.
The graphics on my HDTV are not great, but its acceptable for what it is.

Take GT4 it has alot of cars and tracks.
The menu system is overly complicated for what was needed.
The physics are horrible, but not as bad as NFS. They are just not sim physics.
The grapics are good in replays, better than GT3. Now in-game tho it gets worse than GT3. It seems grainy and just horrible to look at.


Now my point is it seems GT5 is closer to GT3 for me with the menus, the attention to graphics, and the physics. GT5 also has GT4 mixed in since it has alot of cars and tracks. It seems to me Kaz can finally put both of these games in one basket and have a kind of best of both words, since he is not so limited by the console now.

 

[TheIshter]

GT5 will be more "fun" than iRacing, but to compare it as a "sim" to iRacing is laughable.

What about a comparison of GT5 with GTR Evolution? I've been playing it to kill time until GT5 comes out.

 

[cpp214]

What about a comparison of GT5 with GTR Evolution? I've been playing it to kill time until GT5 comes out.

I think GTR Evo is a very good sim, with excellent FFB and I think playing GTR Evo is a much better preparation for GT5 than playing GT5 Prologue. I'd even say that playing GT5P in preparation for GT5 is almost a waste of time. The physics will be so different that you'd be better off playing a PC sim like GTR Evo or iRacing to get ready for GT5--if you want to take it that seriously. That's a compliment for GT5's physics by the way, they are a significant step forward from Prologue.

 

[SolidSnakex]

And as far as the quality of driving in iRacing goes--99% of the drivers in iRacing drive cleanly and courteously, it's not a demolition derby like online racing in Gran Turismo Prologue. There is a safety rating system, an actual mechanism for reporting unsportsmanlike driving, and a driver rating system that groups drivers of similar skill level. There is an actual Sporting Code that governs online racing and chat behavior, and it is followed very closely for the most part. People who don't play by the code don't hang around long, either because they weren't serious about sim racing in the first place, or because they are weeded out by iRacing staff.

That's kind of what you'd expect to happen when you're paying for a game with iRacing's business model. You're paying $100 to rent a product for a year and you only get 7 tracks and 3 cars for that $100. You have to pay $12 for a car and between $12-15 for a track. So they better do everything in their power to make that a perfect experience online.

 

[Kryz11]

GT5 physics may be improved, but they are not even in the same league as iRacing. iRacing is and has been the benchmark in sim racing physics for a couple of years now. Netkar Pro is okay, but it's not in the same league either. It's a notch below Live for Speed really.

And iRacing is REDOING their tire model? Not hardly. They are constantly improving their tire model--just as they constantly improve their sim every 3 months with updates. You can actually feel what all 4 tires are doing in iRacing, and you can feel every bump in the road because all the tracks are laser scanned. Name one track in Gran Turismo that has been laser scanned...and if you can, show me the proof, because I want to know how much they are paying to have it done, as it's highway robbery. You can't feel every bump and imperfection in the track as you can with iRacing. This is why iRacing has the best FFB in any racing game--you can feel every bump in the road and you can feel what is going on with the car better than any sim out there.

You can push like a madman and take all sorts of unrealistic liberties with the cars in GT games. That's not the case in iRacing. It's a white-knuckle driving experience that always keeps you on your toes, and you never feel quite like you can push the car to the max--the physics are too realistic and punish you accordingly for taking too many liberties with the car.

And as far as the quality of driving in iRacing goes--99% of the drivers in iRacing drive cleanly and courteously, it's not a demolition derby like online racing in Gran Turismo Prologue. There is a safety rating system, an actual mechanism for reporting unsportsmanlike driving, and a driver rating system that groups drivers of similar skill level. There is an actual Sporting Code that governs online racing and chat behavior, and it is followed very closely for the most part. People who don't play by the code don't hang around long, either because they weren't serious about sim racing in the first place, or because they are weeded out by iRacing staff.

GT5 will be more "fun" than iRacing, but to compare it as a "sim" to iRacing is laughable.

Did you play GT5 with a wheel? Only few people did, and for what? 5-10 minutes? No one really experienced GT5's full physics potential, only the Bestbuy demo with controllers. And who knows if full game will have even more updated physics?
Physics here look really good. Seems like a hard car to drive with.


The tracks are the most realistic ive seen on any console, I dont know if they are all laser measured or not, but I think some are because Kaz and his team mentioned laser scan track in one of the old articles.

Here is GT5 vs iRacing Both are damn close









I know Nur-Ring will be updated from GT4s with more bumps, confirmed by Kaz, and Laguna Seca will be updated as well.

 

[rexc]

I got to play a GT5 demo over the weekend with proper racing setup and G27 wheel, driving the Ferrari Enzo around Rome.

The physics level was only set to 'Beginner', but even on 'Beginner', as others have already said, the change in the weight distribution of the car under cornering and braking was a lot more noticable than in Prologue. You really seemed to be able to feel the balance of the car a lot better too.

I think, without a doubt, on pro physics GT5 will absolutely eat anything we've seen on a console up until now.

 

[cpp214]

That's kind of what you'd expect to happen when you're paying for a game with iRacing's business model. You're paying $100 to rent a product for a year and you only get 7 tracks and 3 cars for that $100. You have to pay $12 for a car and between $12-15 for a track. So they better do everything in their power to make that a perfect experience online.

If you are a hardcore sim racing fan, it's money well spent. I'd much rather spend $240 a year or even $300 a year on iRacing than buy 4 or 5 PS3 games.
That's about $25 month for some outstanding entertainment value. But then again, I just play racing games. Each car and track in iRacing is worth every single penny and more. Pound for pound they are the best, most accurate-handling cars and most realistic tracks in any racing game. And they look plenty good enough to me.

 

[awr117]

And as far as the quality of driving in iRacing goes--99% of the drivers in iRacing drive cleanly and courteously, it's not a demolition derby like online racing in Gran Turismo Prologue. There is a safety rating system, an actual mechanism for reporting unsportsmanlike driving, and a driver rating system that groups drivers of similar skill level. There is an actual Sporting Code that governs online racing and chat behavior, and it is followed very closely for the most part. People who don't play by the code don't hang around long, either because they weren't serious about sim racing in the first place, or because they are weeded out by iRacing staff.

I am really hoping for something like this with GT5 online. Punish the bad drivers by not allowing them to advance to higher ranked races until they learn how to drive clean. We shall see, but i can honestly say that i wasn't very pleased with the online play of GTP.

 

[SolidSnakex]

If you are a hardcore sim racing fan, it's money well spent. I'd much rather spend $240 a year or even $300 a year on iRacing than buy 4 or 5 PS3 games.
That's about $25 month for some outstanding entertainment value. But then again, I just play racing games. Each car and track in iRacing is worth every single penny and more. Pound for pound they are the best, most accurate-handling cars and most realistic tracks in any racing game. And they look plenty good enough to me.

Hey that's perfectly fine if you're happy with it. I'm just saying that it's a lot easier to police around 20k people online than it is to police the millions that'll be playing GT5 online. So you're of course going to have some people that are just looking to ram people off the course when you've got a user base that's as big as GT's.

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

Hey that's perfectly fine if you're happy with it. I'm just saying that it's a lot easier to police around 20k people online than it is to police the millions that'll be playing GT5 online. So you're of course going to have some people that are just looking to ram people off the course when you've got a user base that's as big as GT's.

There are differences as well in the community make up. Most people who will buy GT5 will be casual gamers who bought it because it was just another very big AAA title. On the other hand, people who buy games like iracing are hardcore racing enthusiast who are willing to pay the subscription fees. I bet most gamers have never even heard of Iracing, but just about everybody in the gaming community knows what GT5 is. Plus ofcourse the fact that Iracing makes more money per user, so they have the resources to monitor their userbase more effectively.

 

[cpp214]

Did you play GT5 with a wheel? Only few people did, and for what? 5-10 minutes? No one really experienced GT5's full physics potential, only the Bestbuy demo with controllers. And who knows if full game will have even more updated physics?

GT5 doesn't have laser scanned tracks. That's enough for me to know that it won't be as realistic as iRacing. Additionally, I played the TT demo quite a bit, and I've talked with people--whose opinions I trust--who say that later versions of GT5 demos that they played with wheels were similar to the TT demo. Based on that information, I have a pretty strong idea of what GT5's physics will look like. They will be a significant improvement over GT5 Prologue, but not on the same level of realism as iRacing or Live for Speed.

EDIT: and the videos you linked aren't a fair comparison at all. The version of Daytona Road course in GT5P feels like driving on a glass coffee table compared to the iRacing version. You can feel every single bump on the track
in iRacing. In fact, it can be so bumpy on the banked oval section, that if you aren't concentrating, or have a bad setup or badly worn tires, you can actually spin out there it upsets the car so much. It's like a night and day difference.

 

[Kryz11]

There are differences as well in the community make up. Most people who will buy GT5 will be casual gamers who bought it because it was just another very big AAA title. On the other hand, people who buy games like iracing are hardcore racing enthusiast who are willing to pay the subscription fees. I bet most gamers have never even heard of Iracing, but just about everybody in the gaming community knows what GT5 is. Plus ofcourse the fact that Iracing makes more money per user, so they have the resources to monitor their userbase more effectively.

Sure many GT5 drivers will be casual. But that is why we have Dedicated servers with a private options. So you can have up to 16 players racing while another 16 can watch the race. So while 16 people race, we can have in a private race few judges to see if everyone is racing properly. There, the frustration is gone 💡

GT5 doesn't have laser scanned tracks. That's enough for me to know that it won't be as realistic as iRacing. Additionally, I played the GT5 TT demo quite a bit, and I've talked with people--whose opinions I trust--who say that later versions of GT5 demos that they played with wheels were similar to the TT demo. Based on that information, I have a pretty strong idea of what GT5's physics will look like. They will be a significant improvement over GT5 Prologue, but not on the same level of realism as iRacing or Live for Speed.

Lol LFS is outdated. So many glitches with tires in that game. You never play GT5 so do not be biased. Also how do you know some tracks in GT5 are not laser scanned? Daytona looks identical to iRacing/real life.

 

[peter_vod69]

GT5 doesn't have laser scanned tracks. That's enough for me to know that it won't be as realistic as iRacing. Additionally, I played the GT5 TT demo quite a bit, and I've talked with people--whose opinions I trust--who say that later versions of GT5 demos that they played with wheels were similar to the TT demo. Based on that information, I have a pretty strong idea of what GT5's physics will look like. They will be a significant improvement over GT5 Prologue, but not on the same level of realism as iRacing or Live for Speed.

So, you don't know what you're talking about?

 

[Kryz11]

I got to play a GT5 demo over the weekend with proper racing setup and G27 wheel, driving the Ferrari Enzo around Rome.

The physics level was only set to 'Beginner', but even on 'Beginner', as others have already said, the change in the weight distribution of the car under cornering and braking was a lot more noticable than in Prologue. You really seemed to be able to feel the balance of the car a lot better too.

I think, without a doubt, on pro physics GT5 will absolutely eat anything we've seen on a console up until now.

Where do you play GT5 with G27???? I thought some demo booths only had the DF GT wheel setup?

 

[peter_vod69]

Even with the DFGT it felt great.

 

[cpp214]

So, you don't know what you're talking about?

So you're a fanboy who believes GT5 physics are Magic?

 

[Kryz11]

So you're a fanboy who believes GT5 physics are Magic?

And you are a fan boy who believes iRacing is Magic?
You only play TT demo and say YOU BELIEVE GT5 wont be as good as iRacing.. common.

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

And you are a fan boy who believes iRacing is Magic?
You only play TT demo and say YOU BELIEVE GT5 wont be as good as iRacing.. common.

GT5 has 1000+ cars, 100+ tracks, amazing graphics, and a 1 time entry fee of $60, so enough said.

 

[Kryz11]

+ physics you can compare to real life. Maybe not too perfect, but what other game you can compare a NSX or Evi 9, or even a Mini Cooper in game to real life within few seconds accuracy? NONE!

Also for iRacing, you dont pay for best physics around a month, you pay for COMMUNITY to play with and store all your data. SO its like renting a game. I paid for 3 months, time is up, and I am back to 0 with iRacing. Its not MMO they should charge normally.

 

[Organ-Donor]

And you are a fan boy who believes iRacing is Magic?
You only play TT demo and say YOU BELIEVE GT5 wont be as good as iRacing.. common.

It better be magic for 3 cars and 7 tracks @ $100. I've never played iRacing, it may be spot on in the physics category, but that price seems a little steep for what you're getting.

 

[cpp214]

Lol LFS is outdated. So many glitches with tires in that game. You never play GT5 so do not be biased. Also how do you know some tracks in GT5 are not laser scanned? Daytona looks identical to iRacing/real life.

Yeah, Live for Speed is outdated, but it still has the best physics of any racing game outside of iRacing. What does that say about GT5? The GT series is only now approaching being on par with Live for Speed in the physics department.

Daytona Road course in GT5P is NOT laser scanned. The version of Daytona Road course in GT5P feels like driving on a glass coffee table compared to the iRacing version. You can feel every single bump on the track in iRacing. In fact, it can be so bumpy on the banked oval section, that if you aren't concentrating, or have a bad setup or badly worn tires, you can actually spin out there it upsets the car so much. It's like a night and day difference.

As usual, GT has the eye candy, and on the surface the track looks good.
But beauty is only skin deep in this case.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Yeah, but I think that in his answer he hints that good FF is just the result of good physics.

Indeed, a sim won't feel right unless the physics are accurate. I've seen a lot more hardcore PC sim racing fans praising GT5's physics engine. It shows you that Polyphony is really getting it right.

 

[xSNAKEx]

haha cpp214 I sense a bit of unfair discrimination here toward gt and possibly fanboi-ism toward iracing because you are a subscriber.

Obviously there hasn't been and probably wont be a way to do a thorough investigation into the realism of say GT5 vs iracing or lfs or any other sim, so at best saying one is better than the other in terms of realism will be largely based on personal opinion and feel, it will hardly be objective.

I respect your position on how you feel toward iracing, and I cannot contradict it as I have never played iracing, so I cannot make definite comments based on videos only, but I have played lfs thoroughly and in my opinion the physics in lfs are moot compared to gt5 tt. Too floaty and there's none of the edginess in behavior or feel that a real car has, which gt5 imo seems to have captured beautifully. I would not be surprised if iracing is similar to lfs in their very technical approach to the physics, but ultimately does not match up well compared to real life practical behavior of the cars, as kaz seems to be trying to capture in gt5. IMO even if the physics do not add up in theory, KAz will alter them them to match the real behavior of the car rather than attempt to implement more and more complexity to the physics. All that matters is how close in behavior to real life the cars handling is, not how complex the physics engine it in runs on.

ALso the level of obsession and detail kaz has gone to I would not be surprised if the tracks in gt5 are scanned to replicate bumps and details to the same if not a higher level than iracing.

In short, I think gt5 has the potential to not only match but surpass by a great deal iracing in the realism department, something which im guessing is impossible in your opninion?

 

[Kryz11]

Because GT5 P has not good physics so you dont experiance it as much, but it is bumpy look



GT5 is not even out yet so get over yourself and your fanboyism. There is nothing you can base your thought on here.

I am just providing you with some information and facts.


About scanned tracks, I dont know if Daytona is scanned, maybe it is but not too much detailed as iRacing, or maybe its as deep as iRacing but old Prologue physics are useless for that.

GT5 will have new tire physics, new physics overall, and just looking at that Jaguar video, car behaves as it should, dont know if it will be as good or better then iRacing but I think I will love it regardless.

Until GT5 is out and we have some in depth comparison, then we can state who the winner is in Physics.

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

No offense to Iracing, never played it and I'm sure it's amazing, but the only thing its got is amazing physics, and I don't find that worth the price of admission.

 

[cpp214]

I am amazed how people think there is going to be some dramatic improvement in GT5 physics, compared to what we have seen in the TT demo and later demos. And for all the GT5 experts out there, I'm sure if they are really doing it, there will be some evidence of Polyhpony Digital actually laser scanning tracks. Here is an example of what iRacing does with their tracks.

 

[Kryz11]

No offense to Iracing, never played it and I'm sure it's amazing, but the only thing its got is amazing physics, and I don't find that worth the price of admission.

I agree.

In real life, you have a car that you already bought. You go to race you pay the admission fee. So basically you do not pay for Physics, you just pay to race with. I understand iRacing wants good comunity and good server, but its bit too expensive.

They should sell the game between 50-100 bucks and charge 5 bucks a month for that service.

I am amazed how people think there is going to be some dramatic improvement in GT5 physics, compared to what we have seen in the TT demo and later demos. And for all the GT5 experts out there, I'm sure if they are really doing it, there will be some evidence of Polyhpony Digital actually laser scanning tracks. Here is an example of what iRacing does with their tracks.

Proof about GT5 not being as good as iRacing? Again, you have not play it with a wheel. Also all recent interviews with Kaz, he mentions its dramatically changed over Prologue and TT, feels like different racing experience, so it seems it will be improved over TT.

 

[TheIshter]

I'm liking PC sims so far (GTR Evo), but compared to GT5P, it's very... "lonely", if you will. I don't know how else to put it.

It's like the feeling of being the richest man on Earth, and being able to buy anything and everything. And then you realize that money isn't everything. It has the greatest physics, but the graphics and overall presentation are so bland that it just makes me want to turn it off.

 

[SolidSnakex]

They don't laser scan for GT. Here's their method

Gran Turismo software designers typically spend at least one week at the track capturing data.
Most of this is spent taking measurements, capturing hours of video, and taking up to 80,000 photos.
The team uses architectural plans and blue prints to build the track model.
Afterwards, it takes the team at least one year to graphically model the track.
Yamauchi claims the accuracy of his teams track topography is +/- 1 cm.

http://www.motortrend.com/auto_news/112_0711_kazunori_yamauchi_gran_turismo_5/track_modeling.html