What is PD's next collaboration?

[Psychopulse]

This is gna blow up soon!!

 

[Yui-san]

 

[05XR8]

GT has always been a virtual BMI/Hot Version type game. Even some of the latest HV videos have been race car based.
Just saw this on their FB

Wonder if the offline portion, will have a few of these old school vibes.

 

[05XR8]

With the delays testing player's patience does this effect any future collaborations?

Forza just introduced a Hurucan collab with Change Racing. Assetto Corsa is working with Porsche. PCars works with Ginetta. GT had GTA with Nissan last year. There was talk of possible Senna collab or content or presence in GTS/GT7.

Moving forward, outside of VGT, who would want to work with PD now, with so much uncertainty?

 

[Tassie_tiger]

With the delays testing player's patience does this effect any future collaborations?

Forza just introduced a Hurucan collab with Change Racing. Assetto Corsa is working with Porsche. PCars works with Ginetta. GT had GTA with Nissan last year. There was talk of possible Senna collab or content or presence in GTS/GT7.

Moving forward, outside of VGT, who would want to work with PD now, with so much uncertainty?

Please don't take any offense, but you're kidding, right?
I highly doubt that disappointed, avid video game fans upset about a release date delay, would be even remotely contemplated in serious business collaborations, nor for that matter the supposed "uncertainty" of the actual delay itself.

You cite one race car with a new sponsor, that sponsor being Forza and therefore that car will probably end up in the game, as apparently something of worthy note.
And yet knowing all you know about how many motoring and motor-sport pies PD have their fingers in, you question who would want to work with Gran Turismo (PD)?

Dude, please.

 

[05XR8]

Well, just saw this in the General thread.

It's all questions homes.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Please don't take any offense, but you're kidding, right?
I highly doubt that disappointed, avid video game fans upset about a release date delay, would be even remotely contemplated in serious business collaborations, nor for that matter the supposed "uncertainty" of the actual delay itself.

You cite one race car with a new sponsor, that sponsor being Forza and therefore that car will probably end up in the game, as apparently something of worthy note.
And yet knowing all you know about how many motoring and motor-sport pies PD have their fingers in, you question who would want to work with Gran Turismo (PD)?

Dude, please.

Serious business decisions require commitment, dedication, the ability to meet deadlines etc.
Why do you think it means that Porsche chose Kunos as the first to gain access to their lineup in the post EA era and to develop the software for their internal simulators? Or that that biggest prize in the history of sim racing and biggest showcase of eRacing ever, had nothing to do with the biggest name in sim racing?

 

[05XR8]

Exactly.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Serious business decisions require commitment, dedication, the ability to meet deadlines etc.
Why do you think it means that Porsche chose Kunos as the first to gain access to their lineup in the post EA era and to develop the software for their internal simulators?

I may be showing my lack of knowledge, but I can't think of another video game developer in the driving genre that comes close to the length and breadth of involvement in the motoring and motor-sport industries like PD and Gran Turismo.
And they didn't start doing that yesterday, they've been doing it for many, many years.
To me, that covers your commitment and dedication criteria.
And it would seem that Porsche weren't concerned with Kunos' failure to meet their console release deadline.
Twice.
I can only guess that Porsche chose Kunos due to their long term collaboration with high level professional racing simulators.
And why wouldn't they?

Or that that biggest prize in the history of sim racing and biggest showcase of eRacing ever, had nothing to do with the biggest name in sim racing?

As opposed to a game that isn't released?
Or a game that is over 3 years old running on a superseded console?

I would guess that the long term history of the hardcore sim. iRacing being used for serious esport events had a lot to do with it.
I can't name any console exclusive games being involved in top level esports.
Perhaps there is one/some you can name as an example, but they are unknown to me.
GT or GTSport not being chosen doesn't seem to be a shock to me.

Exactly.

Perhaps after this thread being active for a year and very little ideas coming forward suggests PD and Gran Turismo have already covered most areas for collaboration?
Almost the only reasonable call has been "motorcycles", but personally I doubt it.

If I was to put forward a suggestion I would probably go for more involvement in the Drifting scene.
Perhaps more dedication to international drift events and the cars used.

As a more less likely suggestion, maybe drag racing?

 

[05XR8]

I may be showing my lack of knowledge, but I can't think of another video game developer in the driving genre that comes close to the length and breadth of involvement in the motoring and motor-sport industries like PD and Gran Turismo.
And they didn't start doing that yesterday, they've been doing it for many, many years.
To me, that covers your commitment and dedication criteria.
And it would seem that Porsche weren't concerned with Kunos' failure to meet their console release deadline.
Twice.
I can only guess that Porsche chose Kunos due to their long term collaboration with high level professional racing simulators.
And why wouldn't they?


As opposed to a game that isn't released?
Or a game that is over 3 years old running on a superseded console?

I would guess that the long term history of the hardcore sim. iRacing being used for serious esport events had a lot to do with it.
I can't name any console exclusive games being involved in top level esports.
Perhaps there is one/some you can name as an example, but they are unknown to me.
GT or GTSport not being chosen doesn't seem to be a shock to me.


Perhaps after this thread being active for a year and very little ideas coming forward suggests PD and Gran Turismo have already covered most areas for collaboration?
Almost the only reasonable call has been "motorcycles", but personally I doubt it.

If I was to put forward a suggestion I would probably go for more involvement in the Drifting scene.
Perhaps more dedication to international drift events and the cars used.

As a more less likely suggestion, maybe drag racing?

GT2 gave us a bit of that with the HKS cars. We also were given a drag strip. That then turned into our Route X testing in GT5. Which(the resting aspect) is missing in GT6.

Kaz wants to do too much. I feel, there's no focus on certain aspects. Only visuals.

If Kaz has felt "1) We covered the buying car thing, 2) We covered the most cars available thing, 3) We covered the vintage car thing, 3.5) We had a play wirh motorcycles, 4)We took players to the moon and back, 5) We got people to race real cars, 6) We allowed players to put real telemetry from from thwir car into the game. What else can we do?... I know! Make the game look more realistic!"

Each game, he's kind of abandoned those things that made the games enjoyable. I haven't even touched on NASCAR and WRC.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

GT2 gave us a bit of that with the HKS cars. We also were given a drag strip. That then turned into our Route X testing in GT5. Which(the resting aspect) is missing in GT6.

Kaz wants to do too much. I feel, there's no focus on certain aspects. Only visuals.

If Kaz has felt "1) We covered the buying car thing, 2) We covered the most cars available thing, 3) We covered the vintage car thing, 3.5) We had a play wirh motorcycles, 4)We took players to the moon and back, 5) We got people to race real cars, 6) We allowed players to put real telemetry from from thwir car into the game. What else can we do?... I know! Make the game look more realistic!"

Each game, he's kind of abandoned those things that made the games enjoyable. I haven't even touched on NASCAR and WRC.

I agree there is a heavy concentrated effort on visuals.
But I think saying "only visuals" is taking it too far.

I understand the chase for great visuals.
If nothing else, class leading graphics + console game = sales.
It's also a hallmark of the GT series, and something which is heavily scrutinised, with any flaws highlighted and pointed to as a failure.
So it's no surprise to me that graphics are at the forefront.

As for the rest of your post, yes there have been many collaborations in many areas over the years.
But you can't continue those features forever.
Time moves on and things get left behind.
To say that "Kaz wants to do too much", and then have a dig that he's abandoned things, seems a bit self-defeating to me.

 

[05XR8]

GT1, GT3 and GT5P. Least amount of cars. Right amount of content. Graphics, cars, game play and re-playability, are all there.

Kaz is starting this one fresh, but as has been pointed out, why is this taking so long? Only newish feature is livery editor. I'm treating VR like a second disc. I know I won't use it.

1000 pictures, 19 tracks, 140 cars, no real Career Mode and Online. Can't be that hard to make a game on an "old" system. This just leads me to think he's wanting too much. Of what this time? I don't know.

The abandoning aspect are about gathering all kinds of fans. Sure, there's the licencing thing, but if this is thee racing game, why half-*** those features?

I do hope whatever the delays are, the finished game is worth waiting for. I'm still going to wait for the reviews from this community though.

 

[Yui-san]

After Hot Wheels, Majorette seems to be next in making more Vision GT cars.

\

 

[cutmeamango]

Just in time for VGTs Season 2.

 

[ghostrider135]

When Majorette made real down to earth models.

If only PD stuck with that same formula, But I digress, I really hope companies stop collaborating with PD it might teach them a lesson to focus on real world cars that people can/dream to own.

 

[Imari]

And yet knowing all you know about how many motoring and motor-sport pies PD have their fingers in, you question who would want to work with Gran Turismo (PD)?

If I was a motoring brand, I'd be happy to work with PD but I really wouldn't be putting much effort or money into it. When does my payoff come? This year? Next year? Never?

Polyphony will always have takers for collaborations, but I think they'll find limits on how far some companies will go to accommodate them given their inability to deliver.

And it would seem that Porsche weren't concerned with Kunos' failure to meet their console release deadline.
Twice.

April to August doesn't seem that bad, really. Four months is not unusual for games, and certainly isn't something to be concerned about as a manufacturer.

Four months and still no release date seems pretty uncomfortable though.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

If I was a motoring brand, I'd be happy to work with PD but I really wouldn't be putting much effort or money into it. When does my payoff come? This year? Next year? Never?

Polyphony will always have takers for collaborations, but I think they'll find limits on how far some companies will go to accommodate them given their inability to deliver.

I would be happy to work with PD as well if I was in the industry.
But it would seem that most manufacturers disagree with you regarding spending resources, for example, to participate in the VGT programme, as most seem to have allowed their most senior staff many hours to work on their respective projects.
Payoff is hard to define.
Does 5 million sales, significantly larger than other competitors, equal a payoff?
Does the sale of the Bugatti VGT to a Saudi(?) Prince equal a payoff, doubtful directly financially but maybe through exposure?
Does the sponsorship of Pikes Peak by Gran Turismo, the license sale, and anticipated inclusion in the latest game equal a payoff?

I don't know.
I'm not in the motor industry, the gaming industry, nor run a business.
But to me the answer to all 3 questions would be Yes.

Of course not all business ventures are a success, so I can also accept that occasionally the answer to "payoff" would be No.

April to August doesn't seem that bad, really. Four months is not unusual for games, and certainly isn't something to be concerned about as a manufacturer.

Four months and still no release date seems pretty uncomfortable though.

Agreed.
4 months delay this day and age, unfortunately, is reasonable.

As it stands we are 3 months past the original date for GTS.
If announced tomorrow we would probably see 2 to 3 months lead-up time.
So we're more than likely looking at in excess of 6 months delay, and growing.

But to be fair, that's discussing time-frames.
My response was to the assertion that Porsche went to Kunos first, in part, because they could meet deadlines.
My response pointed out that in fact Kunos missed meeting their console deadline, and pushed their release date out twice.

So while I'm happy to agree with the crux of your reply, I think my response in that instance was a reasonable one. 👍

 

[Imari]

But it would seem that most manufacturers disagree with you regarding spending resources, for example, to participate in the VGT programme, as most seem to have allowed their most senior staff many hours to work on their respective projects.

Judging by what we've seen so far, I'm not so sure about that.

The VGT program that was planned for GT6 took twice as long as expected to put out half of the content. It's debatable how much time was put into some of them, considering that they're just reworkings of current design languages. For all we know they were discarded concepts. No doubt some had some serious work put in, but given that they don't actually have to be engineered in any particularly realistic fashion I'd be surprised if most took more than a few days of work. Probably with a preliminary sketch by a senior designer and a lot of CAD work from their latest intern.

Does 5 million sales, significantly larger than other competitors, equal a payoff?

No. The manufacturers aren't getting paid per copy of the game.

The payoff was advertising. Many of the VGT manufacturers weren't included until well past the initial player base had left. Half weren't included at all. The reasons for this are unknown and debatable, but I doubt that many manufacturers outside of Mercedes were terribly happy with the coverage they got out of GT6.

Does the sale of the Bugatti VGT to a Saudi(?) Prince equal a payoff, doubtful directly financially but maybe through exposure?

You think he bought it because of GT? Iffy.

Does the sponsorship of Pikes Peak by Gran Turismo, the license sale, and anticipated inclusion in the latest game equal a payoff?

I'm sorry, what? Sponsorship means Polyphony paid them. They almost certainly paid for the license as well.

My response was to the assertion that Porsche went to Kunos first, in part, because they could meet deadlines.

There's an assumption there that Kunos was their first choice.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Judging by what we've seen so far, I'm not so sure about that.

The VGT program that was planned for GT6 took twice as long as expected to put out half of the content. It's debatable how much time was put into some of them, considering that they're just reworkings of current design languages. For all we know they were discarded concepts. No doubt some had some serious work put in, but given that they don't actually have to be engineered in any particularly realistic fashion I'd be surprised if most took more than a few days of work. Probably with a preliminary sketch by a senior designer and a lot of CAD work from their latest intern.



No. The manufacturers aren't getting paid per copy of the game.

The payoff was advertising. Many of the VGT manufacturers weren't included until well past the initial player base had left. Half weren't included at all. The reasons for this are unknown and debatable, but I doubt that many manufacturers outside of Mercedes were terribly happy with the coverage they got out of GT6.



You think he bought it because of GT? Iffy.



I'm sorry, what? Sponsorship means Polyphony paid them. They almost certainly paid for the license as well.



There's an assumption there that Kunos was their first choice.

I find Multi-quoting difficult, so excuse that.

Regarding VGT's, I think you should revisit the videos accompanying each car.
Also, the programme rolls on.
The cars are in the next game, and for that matter there's nothing to say it won't be in the next after that.
So if the payoff is advertising, many million copies over many years sounds like a reasonable investment to me.


I think the Bugatti VGT exists because of the VGT programme.
So I'm not sure how that makes it "iffy" at all.
Seems a slam dunk to me, unless you're suggesting the Bugatti VGT would have been designed, built, and sold without the programmes existence.


Pikes Peak.
Of course PD paid.
Is it not a collaboration?
Did it not have a payoff?
You've lost me.


And the assumption that Kunos was their first choice wasn't mine.
I simply replied to the assertion.

 

[Imari]

Regarding VGT's, I think you should revisit the videos accompanying each car.

I've watched them. I give advertising material limited credit for what it says. It won't lie, but it will stretch the truth as far as it can to make something sound good.

Also, the programme rolls on.
The cars are in the next game, and for that matter there's nothing to say it won't be in the next after that.
So if the payoff is advertising, many million copies over many years sounds like a reasonable investment to me.

Despite the people who paid for the programme in GT6 not getting to access it? Shortchanging customers is generally considered to be a bad thing to be associated with.

I think the Bugatti VGT exists because of the VGT programme.
So I'm not sure how that makes it "iffy" at all.
Seems a slam dunk to me, unless you're suggesting the Bugatti VGT would have been designed, built, and sold without the programmes existence.

I'm suggesting that a Saudi Prince will buy any penis extension with a big engine. So yes, Bugatti could have made any concept car and sold it to that particular customer. That particular car may not have been made without the VGT programme, but given that it's basically a Chiron with a bodykit I'm not so sure about that either.

Pikes Peak.
Of course PD paid.
Is it not a collaboration?
Did it not have a payoff?
You've lost me.

Ah. I see the misunderstanding.

See, I was counting collaborations as things that were distinct from monetary transactions. Things where both companies traded work, technology or design for a mutual benefit. Like the VGT program, where it's highly unlikely that money changed hands. The word "collaboration" implies working together to achieve something, whereas a monetary transaction is simply paying someone for their work or property.

If we're just counting monetary transactions then of course every company is interested. Companies exist to make money. They're happy to deal with anyone if the price is right. But far less are willing to get into relationships where it's purely trade based on some intangible value to them further down the line.

If the discussion is simply "who will accept money from Polyphony?" then it becomes very boring very quickly, because the answer is "everyone". That's why I assumed that there was a distinction being made.

And the assumption that Kunos was their first choice wasn't mine.
I simply replied to the assertion.

Fair point. My apologies.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Brief reply as I really do need to call it quits for the night, sorry.

You seem to be focused on GT6, where as I'm looking at both 6, Sport, and even beyond, and the high probability of repeat customers.


Well, he did literally buy the Bugatti VGT.
Not a similar car that could have been built.
No it wasn't PD's design, but born of GT nonetheless.


Is allowing exclusive use of PP called a collaboration?
All they are doing is allowing PD access to the track and giving permission for its use.
For that matter, is offering an invite to a project (VGT) and then doing nothing more than implementing that independent result into a game a collaboration?
And does money changing hands alter the definition?

Interesting questions, and I would need more time to put forward reasonable responses.

 

[Mr P510]

I'm hoping for a big Porsche collaboration since the recent EA bail out.

 

[VXR]

What's five million sales when your competitor matches that in the same period over four releases that create new hype every year and not every half decade though?

What benefit is it to the manufacturer to have a flight of fantasy in the game, but in the case of some of the manufacturers, only one current on-sale model in GT6's car roster?

I enjoy GT for what it is, but its relevance to brands is diminished when it comes to selling cars.

 

[cutmeamango]

What's five million sales when your competitor matches that in the same period over four releases that create new hype every year and not every half decade though?

What benefit is it to the manufacturer to have a flight of fantasy in the game, but in the case of some of the manufacturers, only one current on-sale model in GT6's car roster?

I enjoy GT for what it is, but its relevance to brands is diminished when it comes to selling cars.

Two things: The competition "matches" (it greatly surpasses 5mi between 4 titles) selling mostly for its own existing user base. That's why Forza 6 had slower sales than Forza 5 and FH3 didn't leap over FH2. It's not expanding its reach.

And brands attach themselves to media stuff not only to cascade into direct product sales. Mind share is the bigger thing.

 

[ImaRobot]

Two things: The competition "matches" (it greatly surpasses 5mi between 4 titles) selling mostly for its own existing user base. That's why Forza 6 had slower sales than Forza 5 and FH3 didn't leap over FH2. It's not expanding its reach

With the backlash that happened after FM5, I'm sure it made some people skeptical when going into FM6. That, and the fact that FM5 was a launch title. They do play it safe and steady though.

Horizon 3 did fairly better than the title right before, FM6(which sold the least by quite a bit than other titles this gen), in the first week, and what looks to be somewhere around 70k more than Fh2 from 2 years before. Wouldn't a whole separate title compared to its "motorsport" sister be considered expanding it's reach?

 

[Imari]

You seem to be focused on GT6, where as I'm looking at both 6, Sport, and even beyond, and the high probability of repeat customers.

We only have GT6 to look at so far. We don't know when GTS will be out, and we only know a little of what it will include and nothing of it's presumed DLC program.

I'd rather talk about what Polyphony have done where possible rather than what they think they will do. They're kind of notorious at this point for having grandiose ideas and then not really following through.

Is allowing exclusive use of PP called a collaboration?
All they are doing is allowing PD access to the track and giving permission for its use.

No. It's called an exclusive license and it costs money.

For that matter, is offering an invite to a project (VGT) and then doing nothing more than implementing that independent result into a game a collaboration?

I think so. That's both companies working together for future mutual benefit.

And does money changing hands alter the definition?

I think there's reasons to separate them, as I outlined above. If being paid is a collaboration the term doesn't really mean anything.

 

[Yui-san]

When Majorette made real down to earth models.

They still do

 

[cutmeamango]

With the backlash that happened after FM5, I'm sure it made some people skeptical when going into FM6. That, and the fact that FM5 was a launch title. They do play it safe and steady though.

Horizon 3 did fairly better than the title right before, FM6(which sold the least by quite a bit than other titles this gen), in the first week, and what looks to be somewhere around 70k more than Fh2 from 2 years before. Wouldn't a whole separate title compared to its "motorsport" sister be considered expanding it's reach?

The reasons why it has sold less (and that holds true to other tentpole MS' franchises like GoW and Halo). even though the X1 is selling at the same-ish? rate as the X360 when aligned, I'm not sure about. Could very well be the reasons you mentioned.

On expanding its reach, certainly. Doubly so if we were talking about its genre scope.
In terms of consumers though, I perceive a large overlap between the two products, no way to verify it though.

For the sake of the argument even if both bases are completely distinct, the sales trend wouldn't point to a large consumer base expansion between FH2+FM5 -> FH3+FM6, just from the FM4->FH1+FM4.

 

[05XR8]

Watches, futbol teams, Monopoly. What's next?

I'm still waiting for Lego.

 

[mister dog]

Watches, futbol teams, Monopoly. What's next?

I'm still waiting for Lego.

Prozac and Kleenex