Will Standard Cars be in GT7?Addressed 

  • Thread starter KinLM
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My question to you is, would buy a PS4 for PS2 assets?
The real question is, for PD at least,how many people turn away from the series because old assets are included vs. sales gained by being able to advertise 1000 CARS! on the box. Sounds like they are willing to gamble on quantity vs. quality, being a sort of Walmart of racing games. People like TenD and others will buy the game regardless of what's in it, just because it's GT. It's the casual players that drive the sales for the most part and it remains to be seen what the hype will be like before the game releases, and how much focus will be on the standards and how much information will be forthcoming from PD to give us a heads up on how many will be upgraded vs. PS2 levels of graphics.
 
My take on this is that, no we don't need the "You're wrong" argument. Thanks for the reality check, but it still could have been said nicer. On all sides.

The quality part, for me, will be if this game takes over 2 weeks to complete off-line. and if it has interest and value over that entire time.

For me, that won't be too hard. I still haven't finished all of the events leading up to the S-events. (Have the S-license, just haven't done any events yet.)

But for people like @Johnnypenso and others who put in hours behind the wheel (at least it sounds like he does), what is in 6, even with the seasonals and other online events, is not enough to cover one full week of serious driving.

I know that some have said that all of the off-line events in 6 took under 40 hours to complete. That is NOT enough!

If PD improves the off-line, and gets a better draw for online, so that the time to completion is over 100 hours (pretty standard for the good GT games), then we can talk quantity problems.

As for the cars, well, I don't think that it will be that big of a deal. Yes, it will still take time to build them. Yes, there are a LOT to go through. But, they are how they are, and the difference from development to final product won't be as long (or as hard) as it is on the PS3.

We shall see, but I think most everything is being blown a bit out of proportion.

And, no, I won't be buying a PS4 (if I even GET one at this point) for PS2 graphics. I'll be getting it for a game. As imperfect as it may be, what is in the game will (hopefully) be more interesting than whether or not one part of it is perfect. Heck, I'll probably still be using a low-res CRT until I can afford a new one at first. (HDMI to RCA adapter are $20. A new TV is around $400. What is cheaper... ;) ).

Again, we shall see. Don't get your panties in a wad over maybes. ;) :)
 
And, no, I won't be buying a PS4 (if I even GET one at this point) for PS2 graphics. I'll be getting it for a game. As imperfect as it may be, what is in the game will (hopefully) be more interesting than whether or not one part of it is perfect. Heck, I'll probably still be using a low-res CRT until I can afford a new one at first. (HDMI to RCA adapter are $20. A new TV is around $400. What is cheaper... ;) ).

Again, we shall see. Don't get your panties in a wad over maybes. ;) :)
It makes perfect sense to be indifferent about standards or even positive about them when the tv you are displaying the game on has the same resolution as the standard cars themselves.
 
No, what am I saying is to him if you have all the standard cars went to premium in GT7 and the gameplay is the same as in GT6 like the career mode would it be and awesome game YES/NO and you will find most players would say NO because of the gameplay. So it does not matter how the standard cars look in a game it is the gameplay got to be very good and not the cars in the game.
The logic of this statement hurts your argument just as much as it helps. It continues to do so no matter how many times you repeat the argument.

I figured me mentioning the "painted on door handles" would have sufficed. Obviously except to you, Tor, Penso...
Yeah, take that... two people who never said a single thing about livery editors on Standard cars...


However, you can't accuse Ferrari of being samey samey between the F355, F40, F50 and Enzo.
Ferrari_348_TS-2.jpg

Ferrari_F355_(1999).jpg
 
The logic of this statement hurts your argument just as much as it helps. It continues to do so no matter how many times you repeat the argument.


Yeah, take that... two people who never said a single thing about livery editors on Standard cars...



Ferrari_348_TS-2.jpg

Ferrari_F355_(1999).jpg
If all the standard cars became premium cars Tornado will it become a better game ?.
 
That's my question. Let's see better gameplay, then we can talk about quality.

And, yes, I'm aware my tv is old school.... ;) It doesn't change my question or my feelings about "I'm going to die if xxxxx isn't perfect!"

I just have to laugh and walk away. As many should.

Oh, and at least Ferrari isn't (quite) as bad as Porsche.... ;)
 
I think I misread the question, though. I was thinking "more premium cars" when I read that.

My answer is yes. To an extent. You see, the thing with games that I like is the challenge. I got GT because it is a good challenge. I have enjoyed all of this series (mostly, at least) because of a good challenge. Sometimes, it was a challenge that I made for myself, sometimes it was a challenge already there. One of my favorite things to do with GT2 was taking a maxed out Miata against the muscle cars for the Seattle muscle car enduro. Great challenge, great fun.

For me, the biggest part of GT is being able to master every level of car. I don't care about "biggest, baddest, fastest", I care about "This is the challenge, what will it take to beat it".

So, having K cars, Miatas (yes, there ARE too many.... ;) ), Grand Tourers, etc. gives me a great and wide variety to test myself with.

I DON'T want to loose that variety, and I'm afraid many of the cars that could be lost with the exclusion of many of the standards would limit that variety and challenge.

THAT is more why I say that GT would be less if we got rid of the older cars.
 
Would more races make for better gameplay?

Would more tracks?

More cars? Better-looking cars?

When is enough good enough?

Look at Call of Duty. What would make for better gameplay? More weapons? Maps?

For some people, it's never enough. These people can't be happy no matter what you give them.

AI that acts like humans is still a few console generations away. Can we live with that? I can.
 
Would more races make for better gameplay?

Would more tracks?

More cars? Better-looking cars?

When is enough good enough?

Look at Call of Duty. What would make for better gameplay? More weapons? Maps?

For some people, it's never enough. These people can't be happy no matter what you give them.

AI that acts like humans is still a few console generations away. Can we live with that? I can.

It's not the ingredients that make the cake but the way they are mixed and baked with care and love that makes us drool over them.

I, for one, feel as if this cake was baked during a particularly acrimonious divorce. :)
 
That's my question. Let's see better gameplay, then we can talk about quality.

And, yes, I'm aware my tv is old school.... ;) It doesn't change my question or my feelings about "I'm going to die if xxxxx isn't perfect!"
"I'm going to die if I don't get my standards". How is that any different?

AI that acts like humans is still a few console generations away. Can we live with that? I can.
No, it isn't, it's available on the PS3 already.
 
"I'm going to die if I don't get my standards". How is that any different?

Touche... ;)

However, to be honest, I'll live with it either way. I'm just glad that I don't have to. ;)

It's not the ingredients that make the cake but the way they are mixed and baked with care and love that makes us drool over them.

I, for one, feel as if this cake was baked during a particularly acrimonious divorce. :)

And, going off of this analogy, leaving the PS2 and going to the PS3 was like kicking out a super model because she had ONE age wrinkle and going to a..... Ummm.... poor excuse for a.....

You fill in the blank. ;)
 
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If all the standard cars became premium cars Tornado will it become a better game ?.
It continues to do so no matter how many times you repeat the argument.

If Standard cars are a wholly separate issue from gameplay quality as you keep asserting (which I don't particularly agree with for either side of the debate, both for hypothetical reasoning already mentioned by others as well as more tangible concepts such as the duplicate issue or sheer car variety when it actually applies), logically they must remain a wholly separate issue from gameplay quality whether they are removed or not.
 
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Would more races make for better gameplay?

Would more tracks?

More cars? Better-looking cars?

When is enough good enough?

Look at Call of Duty. What would make for better gameplay? More weapons? Maps?

For some people, it's never enough. These people can't be happy no matter what you give them.

AI that acts like humans is still a few console generations away. Can we live with that? I can.

An actual race would be a nice start.


But in seriousness, I don't want another game that just has fancy cars and tracks. I'd rather 100 cars and 10 tracks, but with decent gameplay. Offline, the only thing you can do is get passed a moving block before the chequered flag. Yes, it's a time trial of three laps with moving blocks in the way. There is no fun in this. What I want is to attack and defend AI drivers on equal terms. I want races where finishing first isn't the main target. I want an AI that doesn't take a couple of seconds to get on the throttle after a turn. I want standing starts, not to be 30 seconds behind the target block. I want immersion, close wheel-to-wheel racing, a race mode that has actual goals in it.

Sorry, I haven't done my daily rant yet, so there it is :)
 
You can have 200 cars and you still can have a terrible gameplay.
*Looks at Shift 2 Unleased. Looks at Forza Motorsport. Looks at Enthusia Professional Racing. Looks at Grid Autosport. Hell even looks at TOCA 2 and TOCA 3 from PS2*

Those racing games I just mentioned does indeed have less cars. HOWEVER, they have good and better gameplay. These are games I played BTW so, stop being a try hard please. This is what happens when you stick with one game kids. Don't be that guy.
 
Well said @TokoTurismo. Even PGR4 had a small amount of cars but the game was very fun.

Less cars, more gamplay.

What will offer better gameplay? A better offline which can even make the online better. I say things like different events and disciplines will do the trick.

Circuit racing is becoming mundane and with the 'other games' having the same, GT needs some differences from the pack.

Disciplines like Drifting, Gymkhana, sprint racing, touge and especially Rally. PGR4 had some traffic cone layouts that were pretty fun.

Events like One Make Races, 1 on 1 duels, elimination

Different variety ladies and gents.
 
*Looks at Shift 2 Unleased. Looks at Forza Motorsport. Looks at Enthusia Professional Racing. Looks at Grid Autosport. Hell even looks at TOCA 2 and TOCA 3 from PS2*

Those racing games I just mentioned does indeed have less cars. HOWEVER, they have good and better gameplay. These are games I played BTW so, stop being a try hard please. This is what happens when you stick with one game kids. Don't be that guy.
You can have a lot less cars in a game and it does not mean it is going to be a good gameplay is BS.
 
You can have a lot less cars in a game and it does not mean it is going to be a good gameplay is BS.
If you don't mind me asking, do you even play other racing games? That could explain why you're saying that...
 
If you don't mind me asking, do you even play other racing games? That could explain why you're saying that...
I have large number of racing games going back to the PS1 and the PS2 days and all the GT series and I have and Xbox as well.
 
I have large number of racing games going back to the PS1 and the PS2 days and all the GT series and I have and Xbox as well.
Okay. That is all I wanted to know. 👍 But still, GT's gameplay is still rather dull though. :mischievous: Needs improvement in that area bad.
 
Okay. That is all I wanted to know. 👍 But still, GT's gameplay is still rather dull though. :mischievous: Needs improvement in that area bad.
Do you agree GT5 had a good gameplay and GT6 did not have a good gameplay but as you said it needs improvement in that area.
 
Do you agree GT5 had a good gameplay and GT6 did not have a good gameplay but as you said it needs improvement in that area.
I wouldn't say GT5's gameplay was bad, but it was OK. 👍 Since GT6 is similar to GT5, it get's a OK too. It just needs improvement pretty much, to make it more fun. :)
 
Hear, here!!!! There is too little and too simple of a gameplay in GT since 3. Bring back REASONS to play again (random prizes, anyone?) in the offline version (or even multiple randoms in the seasonals...) and it would make this game FAR more interesting! :)

The cars (and sound, to an extent) will fall to the side with that kind of improvement!
 
This is a pretty serious accusation
Okay, that was a bit over the top, it has been a long week. But as for the rest...

That's still intentionally missing my point; Standards, if included in GT7, can't have the sorts of bodykit options Premiums can.
I'm not understanding this. Bodykits are built to the car, even Premiums. And I know you don't want them to work on Standard cars, but I seem to recall a lot of complaining that Standard cars couldn't even have their wheels changed in GT5 for the longest time, so evidently there are a lot of people who like to tinker with these cars. They did some touch up work on quite a few cars, as there were threads exploring this back in the early days of GT5. PD accommodated them, so I don't agree that Standards can't be changed at all.

You really are just ignoring parts of my posts that don't line up with what you want them to say, huh? Yes, Standards could get higher-resolution textures applied to them. Do I expect that to happen to the vast amount of Standards that still haven't received any updates since GT4? How many Standards were brought up to RUF-levels of quality, a few dozen? Under a hundred, surely - not counting the body-duping that is the NA Miatas, at any rate. So that was roughly 1/8 of the Standards updated, over three years. To think every Standard will have a high-res update is a flight of fancy, unless you'd like GT7 in late 2017 or so.
I'm not getting this either. Are you insisting that it takes six man months to skin a car? And you are aware that PD is working on two games right now, aren't you? So the modelers are doing whatever they're doing, the artists are working on their assignments, and we don't know what that is. Also note that I'm not saying every Standard car is going to be modeled into a sub-Prem or get a high res skins. In fact, I suggested that because PD is working on two games and resources are kind of tight, probably even with a round of hiring, to focus on cars that would fit into a racing league format. I also pointed out that many of those cars have a Prem which is used in or similar to a car used in racing leagues. For the rest, upgrade the Standds and give them racing versions, including the RUFs.

You're actually going to bring up '90's BMW's as a model of diversity? The company that made the "different lengths of the same sausage" saying a thing? I won't link images either, so you'll have to Google them too, but just looking at the core 3/5/7-series line through the 80's and 90's, I again have to ask: seriously? Look at the E30, then look at the E34, then finally, E32. There's one generation. Next, compare the E36, E39, and E38 - another sausage party, really. And if you think they're curvier than what came later - you know, the oft-maligned Bangle years - I'm at a loss for words.

Where did I say I don't see a difference between the Countach and... okay, that's an odd pairing to stick the super-limited Reventon into, where a Diablo would make way more sense - and an Aventador? I'd certainly hope there's a difference between two cars' styling when they have nearly 40 years between them.

Ferrari: "5-series" doesn't indicate front-engine, FWIW. You're all over the map, though; you're comparing the 550/575 to the 360 and accusing them of samey looks, which is to be expected when they were part of the same decade. Just take a look at the current crop; they all feature the same frightened, pulled-back headlights and grinning grille. But then you point out the middle trio of their top-tier supercars, and even more bizarrely, stick the F355 in there too. Of course designs look a lot different in the 15 years between the F40's introduction and the Enzo's, and of course the entry level model of the mid-90's looks different from them all.

Yes, let's lament the daring designs of the past, like the 80's:

(piccie snip to make sure they stay there - kids, don't quote images)
Yes, I actually like those car designs. You may not. You may much prefer the teardrop shapes of the past several year rut the car makers have fallen into across the board, but those cars look much nicer to me. And if you saw those cars in person, I doubt that you'd say they all looked alike. If you're going to make a two door hatchback, it's going to have a certain shape to it. I also think it's quite amusing that your source image is titled,
Did someone say 80s sports cars? I 🤬 LOVE 80S SPORTS CARS :D
But what I lament is this:

Nissan Altima

Kia Optima (good grief, even the names are similar)

Chevrolet SS

Chevrolet Cruze

BMW 328

BMW 330

Lexus IS

I think I shouldn't have to continue with this, though I could easily. And look, other than the SS, these are the cars I like. I really dig the Optima and would love to own one, but this isn't what I call market blazing daring design. And from completely different car makers, dig. I know this is all a matter of opinion and taste, but seriously.

And to bring this around to the topic at hand, this is why I like, I dare to say, the cars from about 1984 to 2004, twenty years of some pretty darn good and much loved sports cars. If you don't love them, there are tons of people on Jalopnik who do. And by golly, this is where the Standards shine, as a memorial to what I consider the period of some real sports car development, where the snappy bullet-shaped 1988 Nissan 300ZX became the soap-dishy but supercarish, muscular 1990 300ZX, one of those teardrops I dearly love, and nothing else is like it. And a design progression which seems to only happen with supercars the last few years.

As for @TayeezSA, I understand your sentiments, as with everyone who has a dislike for the Standards. But to say that GT3 A-Spec was a great game, it wasn't because of the small car and track list, it was in spite of it. I know that Forza 5 has its fans, but the gamers are voting with their wallets, and many of them are sticking with Forza 4, a game which is two to four times as large, depending on how you look at it. And I know that GT7 would be larger than Forza 5 in Premium car count, but tracks? This is where most people here backtrack a little and say that maybe those Standard tracks like Deep Forest and Trial Mountain aren't so bad, because having a handful of courses to race gets older much quicker than with cars.

As for the "I'm gonna die" remarks, I have to say that at least "I'm gonna die if I don't get my Standards" makes more sense than "I'm gonna die if I SEE a Standard." But that's just me. ;)

In any case, Kaz is going to do what he wants, so we can either buy GT7 or not. It's a free universe, at least in this case, and I plan on exercising that freedom just as soon as I can.
 
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