Will you be updating to 2.12?

  • Thread starter Thread starter CodeRedR51
  • 780 comments
  • 49,418 views

Will you update to 2.12?

  • Yes

    Votes: 341 78.2%
  • No

    Votes: 95 21.8%

  • Total voters
    436
I really don't understand the point behind getting DLC cars for free. I mean, are people really that cheap that they cant afford a pound or 2 (or whichever currency you might use).

In fact, it's actually totally backward not to buy the DLC. If the argument is that people don't think PD have done a good job with the game and don't want to spend more money on it, pirating the DLC in effect is taking income away from PD, giving them less resources to do a better job next time...
The DLC that is available to buy, yes. But what about those that missed the Edge Camaro, or the GT-500 GTR Stealth that they had offered for free?
 
The Edge Camaro wasn't offered for free. It was offered on the pretext that you only got one if you bought Edge products. That PD or someone messed it up and the codes for it were unlimited use was another issue entirely.
 
The DLC that is available to buy, yes. But what about those that missed the Edge Camaro, or the GT-500 GTR Stealth that they had offered for free?

If you missed it, you missed it. Why do people get so upset. Surely the point of these "Limited Edition" items, is that they are in fact limited edition.

I get the impression that people think they are being 'Robbed' by PD, just because they didn't get everything that next guy got. It is just more promotional material that is offered, and those who get it, get. Those who don't, don't. Is it really that hard to just live with it?
 
oink83
If you missed it, you missed it. Why do people get so upset. Surely the point of these "Limited Edition" items, is that they are in fact limited edition.

I get the impression that people think they are being 'Robbed' by PD, just because they didn't get everything that next guy got. It is just more promotional material that is offered, and those who get it, get. Those who don't, don't. Is it really that hard to just live with it?

Well said Oink!
 
Houston we have a problem here!

I'm going to buy two DLC, Motegi and Touring Car Pack, BUT I need to update 2.12 in order to use them. Problem is I also wonna try some hybrid stuff on some cars, only painting. I don't care about hp, I just want a black Ferrari F1, a Yellow Mazda Rx-7 Drift Car etc..

Can someone tell me if hybrid painting still works with 2.12?
 
Houston we have a problem here!

I'm going to buy two DLC, Motegi and Touring Car Pack, BUT I need to update 2.12 in order to use them. Problem is I also wonna try some hybrid stuff on some cars, only painting. I don't care about hp, I just want a black Ferrari F1, a Yellow Mazda Rx-7 Drift Car etc..

Can someone tell me if hybrid painting still works with 2.12?

Yes it does.
 
Modding cars to have thousands of horsepower is not over, they may have stopped some of the hacking

but they didn't fix everything, by next week hacked cars should be running wild online again.
 
Correct, and Correct.

However, you're missing the point. Just because you personally are "doing no harm" does not mean the exploits are not being used to do harm. PD aren't attacking people personally, they're trying to close holes to preserve the integrity of the online environment.

And as for offline, well... that's the whole point of this thread. You can do whatever the eff you want offline. Go for it. I have yet to see anyone complain about someone choosing to keep their hybrids offline. Get a second HDD and enjoy it; to each their own.

The proper choice from PD would have been to remove the REASON modding became so popular. That reason being more extensive tuning. Limited tuning contributes to the imbalances in the game, so why not address this fundamental flaw of the game and give all cars the same tuning range and let the player's tune the cars they want? Why limit the ride height range for each car? Instead of ruining my modded car, why not just increase the ride height range so a suspension data swap in unnecessary? Same with transmissions. Why can't a 69 Camaro have a 6speed, or 7, or 8?

They made an arbitrary choice in the original design that conflicts with every player's desires (even the die-hards). Every player who tunes their cars can appreciate having more choice to achieve that better balance for their car. It would have increased the number of competitive cars. That simple change would have addressed the problem and improved the game. Win/win. Instead people that didn't mod get nothing and the modders lose something of value to them and continue to search for way to get it back.
 
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...by next week hacked cars should be running wild online again.
I'm sure they will. The point is, having responded twice now to this situation, do you really think PD and Sony are going to say "fair enough, you guys are right..."

What you should be asking yourself is, are you ready for the next measure?
 
Good God Simon, give it a rest. This wasn't a valid argument when you tried to pull it 8 or so pages ago, and it's hilariously hypocritical for you to say "don't put everyone in the same basket" after you basically stated the idiotic idea that the people who are calling GT5 dead now are the same people who had been defending GT5's online play up until the hybrids came out.

Idiotic idea? So I was wrong and it wasn't the same people? I'm pretty sure it was.

I don't have the time or inclination to do intense searching but here is MOTORTRENDMitch saying the game isn't dead:

In my opinion, it is not a dying game yet...
[...]
I have no trouble finding fun on Gran Turismo, online gave many opportunities for a blast! Find fast, clean, cool people. Do some recommended car racing.. All driver. You can't tell me this game doesn't provide an awesome experience.

It's still VERY alive.

Ok that was Sep 2012, a few months before the hybrids but he's not the only one.

Nevermind the innate hilarity of you of all people being one of the ones mocking people for complaining about GT5 online.

Yes, that is why I found it funny, obviously. When I or others would say the game is dead people would tell us it wasn't, now those same people have changed their tune.
 
Idiotic idea? So I was wrong and it wasn't the same people? I'm pretty sure it was.

Yeah, idiotic idea. Because it is idiotic to blanket state that the people who are disagreeing with you now are the exact same people who were disagreeing with you back then, so Ha ha! The shoe is on the other foot now! They are so hypocritical!



Let's see. Who was the most vocal about defending hybrids?

Myself, who has played GT5 online maybe 3 times in the past 6 months, the last time being back in early February.
Voodoovaj, who only started posting on GTP in earnest about a month before hybriding started happening.
Exorcet, who stopped playing GT5 online long before hybriding started.
MuoNiuLa, who basically dropped GT5 the second FM4 came out.
R1600Turbo, who probably has more posts in the online events forum than you have posts period, but has been grumbling about GT5 online deteriorating for at least 6 months.
Johnnypenso, who was near enough to the most vocal against them and certainly spends a lot of time in the online events forum; but then actually sat down and learned how they worked and changed his mind (I love the implication you're giving that no one is allowed to change their mind about anything even when they note themselves that they changed their mind, by the way).






Any other names you want to throw out there? Let's get specific with your assertions.


I don't have the time or inclination to do intense searching

Then keep the foolish generalizations of those disagreeing with you to yourself if you're not going to bother proving them. Lest you forget, Simon, that I generally was involved in the exact same discussions as you've been, usually even making very similar arguments to yourself; and yet I'm not quite so quick to tar those defending hybrids as being guilty as a collective of vague assertions of hypocrisy.

but here is MOTORTRENDMitch saying the game isn't dead:

Ok that was Sep 2012, a few months before the hybrids but he's not the only one.
7 months ago, eh? Can't imagine how anyone could change their opinion of a game's online over that period of time; especially when 2 of those months basically allowed a greatly expanded feature set, as unofficial as it was.

Yes, that is why I found it funny, obviously. When I or others would say the game is dead people would tell us it wasn't, now those same people have changed their tune.
And I find it funny (hilarious, even) that you're playing the same angry attack dog role at everyone and everything in this and the other thread that you constantly speak out against when others do it to you when you complain about something with GT5; repeatedly posting in this and the other thread just to mock people for table flipping responses to the patch. And I know that if it was something that PD did that you didn't like, you'd be chomping at the bit to defend even the most extreme of responses because they have some root complaint that you agree with. It puts an entire new spin on your arguments in the past, because now it looks like most of your posting history was just you biding your time until you could turn the tables and start acting the same way.


By the way, how many of the members I listed above frequently argued against whatever points against PD you were making at the time 5-6 months ago? R1600, maybe? It wasn't me, Exorcet or MuoNiuLa, surely, because we would all fall under the "or others" category.
And why are you acting as if the only thing that has changed in that (long) period of time is the date on the calender? Do you seriously think that having a month and a half of nigh-unlimited customization being patched back into what GT5 came with with nary an acknowledgement that it ever existed wouldn't have any effect on accelerating negative feelings about the game?
 
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Its the word cheating I take exception to. There's more to it than just whacking up the power multiplier. This isn't cheating:


In fact, in the case of the Toyota GT-One, its actually a little slower than the original. The XJ13 has identical top speed.

I did the same thing with the Murcielago, gave it the C12 Zonda engine, was going to give the Countach 25th the Countach LP400 Engine. :grumpy:
 
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I'm sure they will. The point is, having responded twice now to this situation, do you really think PD and Sony are going to say "fair enough, you guys are right..."

What you should be asking yourself is, are you ready for the next measure?

Confrontation (by Polyphony) solves nothing and only makes them seem that they are coming from a position of hubris. If they embraced the community as the most valuable of clients that they have, they would be much better off.

You should never design by committee, but you should never ignore trends either. Exposing the full tuning range would have been easy of the dev team and appreciated by all. I'm sure some bean counter was whinging about the cost of testing, but that is a weak position.
 
I've tried keeping away from this arguement but I've just grown bored today so here are my 2 cents that probably won't be heard.

PD's actions were to prevent the people who use over the top hybrids online from ruining others online experience. Weather it be seasonal events or a public room with hp/pp limits. As many have said before... when you play online you agree to their rules. If you don't want to agree to PD's online agreement then simply don't play online. No one is forcing you to update the game.

Polyphony didn't think "let's ruin these peoples creativity and fun" as much so as "let's stop people from trolling or cheating online OUR servers". I'm sure Kaz would the creativity, as do I, put into these realistic hybrids. I my self have not used hybrids of any kind, though I have greatly wanted to. I stick to their terms and services because I enjoy racing online (usually shuffle or spec racing). I have no doubt in my mind that hybrids would allow for better match ups in online racing but its the people with the 2000 plus hp civics and those that used them in seasonal that have ruined it for those who enjoy more realism.

I would use the phrase "don't bite the hand that feeds" in this situation. Insulting PD and Kaz will not change their minds on. They did what they needed to do to regulate the online aspect. I respect, understand, and agree their actions. Yes, a lot of fun has been killed in the cross fire for some gamers. I don't feel that "online is dead" at all but that's my opinion. I still enjoy most aspects of GT5 and am always finding new ways, withing the parameters of the online agreement, to have fun.

I'm sure I will have a lot of people disagree and I understand most of your anger. Just wanted to voice my opinion and hope no one hates me for it.
 
Yeah, idiotic idea. Because it is idiotic to blanket state that the people who are disagreeing with you now are the exact same people who were disagreeing with you back then, so Ha ha! The shoe is on the other foot now! They are so hypocritical!



Let's see. Who was the most vocal about defending hybrids?

Myself, who has played GT5 online maybe 3 times in the past 6 months, the last time being back in early February.
Voodoovaj, who only started posting on GTP in earnest about a month before hybriding started happening.
Exorcet, who stopped playing GT5 online long before hybriding started.
MuoNiuLa, who basically dropped GT5 the second FM4 came out.
R1600Turbo, who probably has more posts in the online events forum than you have posts period, but has been grumbling about GT5 online deteriorating for at least 6 months.
Johnnypenso, who was near enough to the most vocal against them and certainly spends a lot of time in the online events forum; but then actually sat down and learned how they worked and changed his mind (I love the implication you're giving that no one is allowed to change their mind about anything even when they note themselves that they changed their mind, by the way).






Any other names you want to throw out there? Let's get specific with your assertions.




Then keep the foolish generalizations of those disagreeing with you to yourself if you're not going to bother proving them. Lest you forget, Simon, that I generally was involved in the exact same discussions as you've been, usually even making very similar arguments to yourself; and yet I'm not quite so quick to tar those defending hybrids as being guilty as a collective of vague assertions of hypocrisy.


7 months ago, eh? Can't imagine how anyone could change their opinion of a game's online over that period of time; especially when 2 of those months basically allowed a greatly expanded feature set, as unofficial as it was.


And I find it funny (hilarious, even) that you're playing the same angry attack dog role at everyone and everything in this and the other thread that you constantly speak out against when others do it to you when you complain about something with GT5; repeatedly posting in this and the other thread just to mock people for table flipping responses to the patch. And I know that if it was something that PD did that you didn't like, you'd be chomping at the bit to defend even the most extreme of responses because they have some root complaint that you agree with. It puts an entire new spin on your arguments in the past, because now it looks like most of your posting history was just you biding your time until you could turn the tables and start acting the same way.


By the way, how many of the members I listed above frequently argued against whatever points against PD you were making at the time 5-6 months ago? R1600, maybe? It wasn't me, Exorcet or MuoNiuLa, surely, because we would all fall under the "or others" category.
And why are you acting as if the only thing that has changed in that (long) period of time is the date on the calender? Do you seriously think that having a month and a half of nigh-unlimited customization being patched back into what GT5 came with with nary an acknowledgement that it ever existed wouldn't have any effect on accelerating negative feelings about the game?

I dunno, it just seemed like some of the same people, not necessarily the big post users you mentioned. Maybe I was wrong. To be honest I think I need a break from this place for a while, I'm taking out my personal issues out on people a lot lately.
 
I'm sure they will. The point is, having responded twice now to this situation, do you really think PD and Sony are going to say "fair enough, you guys are right..."

What you should be asking yourself is, are you ready for the next measure?

If they try to further restrict hybrids it would probably be another couple of months before another patch is released. Even if I was banned I could have every car back on a new account within an hour, or I might just end up loading one of my old saves and going back to 2.11.
 
If they try to further restrict hybrids it would probably be another couple of months before another patch is released. Even if I was banned I could have every car back on a new account within an hour, or I might just end loading one of my old saves and going back to 2.11.

That's what I will be doing sadly, I won't update again until I see what the Thursday patch will do.
 
I'm still in the midst of clean up after all this re-installing and updating. I got to cleaning up cars that I still want to use and adding back into my favs.

I came upon two. Stealth R10 TDI and and Stealth SLS. I opened them, reset them, and there it was...

The game detected that these cars were not installed and asked me to install them. Accessing the limited edition cars has been curtailed and that is fair. For all those who went on and on about ToS and such, here's your real reason.

I've said all along that the only reason for PD to act is if there is something detrimental to the franchise. I can agree with their opinion that accessing limited cars would cause damage to future sales. It's unfortunate that everything has to be reset to fix this issue, but I understand why this would need to be the case an I can agree that this was the best choice.

Although, not communicating this ahead of time was detrimental. I only hope that tomorrow's "maintenance" brings with it some type of olive branch from PD to the modders. I found so many cars that just needed a little more tuning range than what was offered in their menu (but available in their data).

There was this whole stance movement, the drift community, the drag community, and of course the racers. SO many benefited from the extra tweaks that the cars could have if PD would just open it up. Here's hoping that they do.
 
I voted no because I don't want to, but unfortunately I have a drift comp to host so I have to update. But I will say F1 2012 will be getting the majority of my wheel time now. It's more fun anyway.
 
If this maintenance brings some new things, I may keep from downgrading. Although I highly doubt they will, I'd hope for something like more car visual mods (like lower cars, no wings, etc...) and the hidden performance parts. And letting us keep our money hacks. I've done enough grinding of the seasonals.
If this somehow happens, I may stay on 2.12. I miss my stealths and chrome lines though
:(
 
I voted no because I don't want to, but unfortunately I have a drift comp to host so I have to update. But I will say F1 2012 will be getting the majority of my wheel time now. It's more fun anyway.

Don't take this as a personal thing, it's nothing against you at all, but this is actually what makes me find this whole thing funny. Alot of people seem to be all about how the online is dead anyway and modding is what's up etc. But then, "...but im going to update anyway because of X/Y/Z reason that is online".

In the end, seems some people are actually choosing online over their beloved hacked cars because they prioritise online things. So there clearly is still fun to be had in the online part of the game. I think some people are just a bit too butt-hurt to admit it.
 
The proper choice from PD would have been to remove the REASON modding became so popular. That reason being more extensive tuning. Limited tuning contributes to the imbalances in the game, so why not address this fundamental flaw of the game and give all cars the same tuning range and let the player's tune the cars they want? Why limit the ride height range for each car? Instead of ruining my modded car, why not just increase the ride height range so a suspension data swap in unnecessary? Same with transmissions. Why can't a 69 Camaro have a 6speed, or 7, or 8?

They made an arbitrary choice in the original design that conflicts with every player's desires (even the die-hards). Every player who tunes their cars can appreciate having more choice to achieve that better balance for their car. It would have increased the number of competitive cars. That simple change would have addressed the problem and improved the game. Win/win. Instead people that didn't mod get nothing and the modders lose something of value to them and continue to search for way to get it back.

You're so far off base it's hard to know where to start here, so I'll go right to your core misconception.

No one at a game development company of this profile is making any arbitrary choices. Every game design element is scrutinized and implemented for specific reasons and goals. I'm not sure if you've noticed; but this is the 5th game in an iterative series.
The original Gran Turismo game is philosophically and functionally identical to every other numbered title to follow. There is no story in a simulator, they just use new technology to improve the experience.

Suggesting that infinite tuning is something everyone wants and it's lack is a fundamental flaw in the game is just ignorant of history and a narrow minded generalization. If what you say is true they wouldn't have sold enough copies of GT2, GT3, GT4 to even make GT5, let alone continue to develop GT6. They have added in more levels of customization (there was no paint shop on the PSX for one) as technology allowed and their customer base grew to include more diverse automotive cultures. However when someone buys a "Gran Turismo" title they get Kaz and PD's idea of car culture. Any creative content will be funneled through the lens of the developer; which in this case values car variety over car customization. That's just the philosophy of the title, if you want infinite variability and feel so strongly that everyone else does... make a game that is shaped to your vision.

Now that that's out of the way I suppose I'll play devils advocate with the details.

*Limited tuning contributes to the imbalances in the game
Shoving a V8 engine into a Fiat 500 doesn't create an imbalance? Other's would say that limited tuning retains the character of each car so that each one is more of a unique experience. The whole point of having hundreds of cars is to create variety after all.
It's also possible that PD thinks limited tuning balances the game by removing the potential for equal drivers in equal machinery to have wildly different performance due to setup changes. Philosophically they have always been trying to keep GT an accessible driving game, not an engineering tool. Simplified tuning was one of the draws of the early games which were competing against high-power PC simulators which required an engineering degree to manage car setups down to tire pressures, caster, and steering rack ratios.

-

*Why limit the ride height range for each car?
Most likely programming constraints or the mechanical specifications of the vehicle. There are plenty of reasons to limit a specific tuning element like ride height. Should the game allow someone to drop the car within a mm of the pavement if the geometry of the suspension or wheel well clearance would never allow that kind of modification? From the programming stand point it is certainly a lot more cost effective and efficient to determine an envelope of "usable ride height" and apply those constraints to every car.

-

*Why can't a 69 Camaro have a 6speed, or 7, or 8?
Other's would say once you do that it's no longer a 69 Camaro. Goes back to the core philosophy of the game, they obviously want to maintain some sort of character from car to car. Do they add a 1954 Gullwing to give people an avenue to drive an old classic that is monetarily out of reach, or so people can put a 300SL body on a GTR chassis?

These are also advertisements for the auto manufacturers and they most likely have some say in the use of their products. You may have noticed that Corvette C7 which is completely locked down. Did PD just make an arbitrary decision to do that or did GM say they wanted the car to be a "virtual test drive" mandating that it couldn't be tuned?
 
What will be hilarious about this - is when 'stage 3' of this master plan gets implemented.
Obviously I'm going to word this like I know nothing, as to avoid breaking the AUP (posting false information).
So, to simplify:

Stage 1- Most of the complete and original sources of these Hybrids get banned. (*letting us know that they're not ok with these cars*)

Stage 2- PD realize that most people are using hybrids, so know it'd be foolish to ban a-lot of their overall fan-base. So instead they attempt to simply remove the cars solely. (*Warning - Stop using these cars - they're unacceptable*).

Stage 3- Any unoriginal GT5 game data on your console causes a freeze on all online features of your game. (OCD, Seasonals, Online...) (*You were warned, you didn't heed, so measures were taken*).

Hehehe. Keep it up guys. :lol:

Stage 4- You will b....*cough**cough**cough*...sorry guys, can't talk right now.....;)
 
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I'm on the fence about it. I haven't made up my mind yet. Probably not for now but eventually yes. When hybrids get boring anyways.
 
Don't take this as a personal thing, it's nothing against you at all, but this is actually what makes me find this whole thing funny. Alot of people seem to be all about how the online is dead anyway and modding is what's up etc. But then, "...but im going to update anyway because of X/Y/Z reason that is online".

In the end, seems some people are actually choosing online over their beloved hacked cars because they prioritise online things. So there clearly is still fun to be had in the online part of the game. I think some people are just a bit too butt-hurt to admit it.

I host GTP Formula Drift, and I'm about to start the 4th season. I have a lot of guys that are waiting for it to start. If I wasn't hosting this, I definitely would not be updating.

What will be hilarious about this - is when 'stage 3' of this master plan gets implemented.
Obviously I'm going to word this like I know nothing, as to avoid breaking the AUP (posting false information).
So, to simplify:

Stage 1- Most of the complete and original sources of these Hybrids get banned. (*letting us know that they're not ok with these cars*)

Stage 2- PD realize that most people are using hybrids, so know it'd be foolish to ban a-lot of their overall fan-base. So instead they attempt to simply remove the cars solely. (*Warning - Stop using these cars - they're unacceptable*).

Stage 3- Any unoriginal GT5 game data on your console causes a freeze on all online features of your game. (OCD, Seasonals, Online...) (*You were warned, you didn't heed, so measures were taken*).

Hehehe. Keep it up guys. :lol:

Stage 4- You will b....*cough**cough**cough*...sorry guys, can't talk right now.....;)

Be derogatory all you want. :lol:
It makes no difference to me.

:rolleyes: #arrogance
 
Be derogatory all you want. :lol:
It makes no difference to me.
Was it that funny? Whatever it was, it wasn't derogatory, it was dismissive. Clearly it does make a difference to you or you wouldn't have responded. Posting in bold italics to make your post stand out more is also indicative of how enamoured you are of your own opinions.... you're in good company though; this thread is like an issue of Narcissism Monthly.

Whether or not you know anything is irrelevant. If you feel the way you do about the perpetrators of hybriding, why warn them anyway? Easy answer - you want to cause a stir, be inflammatory in the vain hope that you are seen as a source of knowledge and/or wisdom.

This is the internet lad - we're all experts here.
 
Hmm...are we getting desperate? You must be to focus on my font style. :sick:

I didn't say I knew anything (I know how the AUP works); I just posted some 'out of the blue' information - obviously it's validity will depend on whether or not the things come to pass.

Either way, please cut out the whole philosophical cr*p you replied with, and accept the fact that I couldn't give two 🤬 about what a bunch of strangers on the Internet think about me and my 'advice'.
 
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