Would you like the next GT to be a hardcore sim?

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Shingo_civic, Aug 8, 2019.

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Would you like the next GT to be a hardcore sim?

  1. Yes

    75 vote(s)
    37.5%
  2. no

    125 vote(s)
    62.5%
  1. Shingo_civic

    Shingo_civic

    Messages:
    35
    Pesonally yes, would be ayesome if finally GT becomes leader (or at least compete with top simulators) also in that departement.
     
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  2. RacingGrandpa

    RacingGrandpa

    Messages:
    163
    No. Hardcore Sims never get big numbers, always demands for more expensive gear and a lot more time put in.
    I like GTS for it's ability to offer fun competitive racing at almost any time. Hardcore Sims demands for hours upon hours of training, perfection of setups and qualifying before allowing the few selected a race.
    There is room for this kind of game too, it's called iRacing.
     
  3. LotusEvoraGTE

    LotusEvoraGTE

    Messages:
    343
    Location:
    Australia
    Pretty much what the above post says.

    Also Gran Turismo is one of Sony's biggest cash cows, so it has to be as accessible as possible. If it was a hardcore sim that was only playable with expensive gear, it just wouldn't sell.
     
  4. Downhill Dino

    Downhill Dino Premium

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    United States
    If it means awful playability on a controller than a hard no.
     
  5. user3392345

    user3392345

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    579
    I voted yes. It should be much more sim, means much more simulation of all the important things. Engine, Gearing, Suspension,Tyres, Body, Air, Temp, Surface and World. Much more setup values in Sound, Steering(ffb), View and Hud. Options to drive the way you like, arcarde physics modus, Sim racing modus.
     
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  6. Mr P510

    Mr P510

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    1,220
    If it supported Direct Drive wheels...then yes.
     
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  7. Cerebral303

    Cerebral303

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    619
    I like it as it is since I can't use a wheel. More arcadey would be a step back for the handling model but more sim like and it will continue to get harder to play without a wheel.
     
  8. user3392345

    user3392345

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    579
    Making a racing game more real dosnt mean it become harder. Its exactly the other way. The more realistic the pysics the more easier it will be. Since your birth(even sooner) you feel physics, the real one, that one that rule the whole universe since mrd of years. You can walk, jump, run, drive a bike, skates, play ball, drive a car. Every movement you do in your life physics are all arround:) If you play a racing game with realisic physics then it feels natural and intuitive, you know what will happend and exact this will happend because you proved it thousand times before in some other actions in real life. l So its much easier to drive. Why should Gran Turismo stay a arcade game with unrealistic physics? Its just a thing of how they implement a good steering with pad.
     
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  9. MikeV27

    MikeV27

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    1,376
    Location:
    Canada
    It doesn’t need to be hardcore like iracing or whatever but I always welcome more realism. GT has fallen behind in quite a few things.

    Edit: A more advanced tire model, adjustable brake pressure and a more in depth tuning system are a few things that come to mind, both are pretty simplified compared to other racing games like Forza Motorsport. Even FM4 on Xbox 360 did some things better than GTS.

    Even the fact that tuning isn’t allowed in sport mode is pretty laughable when even a less serious racing game like Forza lets you do this. PD just need to do what turn 10 does and make setups easy to access for players who don’t like tuning, then everyone is happy.

    Adding these doesn’t necessarily make it more hardcore, it’s just keeping up with the industry. All types of games should always be moving forward rather than staying still.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
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  10. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    1,010
    Physics are good now.
    Voted no. Made that vote because ‘hardcore’ could be anything. Some games that means designing a game in which the cars are harder to drive than real.
    If hardcore means including setup in public races definitely no, because exploits.
    If hardcore means having to set tire pressure again no, just give me optimal.
    I just want the optimal setup given like GTS does. You know the car is capable of the best times.
    What does hardcore even mean?
    If you actually PLAY GTS on GOOD gear it’s great imo.
    Maybe controller players get almost too much ‘help’ but I like that because more players.
    This game is plenty challenging. Pretty close to perfect imo.
    To me hardcore kinda means excluding good drivers who don’t know the little setup exploits required to be competitive.
    In GTS the racing is a level playing field.
    IMO PD can adjust this game in any direction, and the are finding a balance that is great.
    As it is very few can maximize performance in this game. It’s plenty ‘hardcore’
    Git gud
    More realism?
    In crashes yes. Brutal crashes would be awesome!
    I see why they didn’t choose that tho.
    Whole thread title is borderline troll.
     
  11. CTznOfTime

    CTznOfTime

    Messages:
    2,916
    Location:
    France
    Sure why not...
     
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  12. Shingo_civic

    Shingo_civic

    Messages:
    35
    Yeah i want to specify that for hardcore sim I didn't mean free and more parameters for the setups in the races or adjustable tire pressure etc. (for me this things are a pain in the ass. i hope PD in the next GT keep the setups fixed for sport mode races) just more realistic physics.
    And yes i agree with you that physics on GT are pretty good (very underrated) but surely they can do better in some areas.
     
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  13. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    1,010
    For example?
     
  14. Darla Starch

    Darla Starch Premium

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    Chad
    Voted no because there's still a market to cover between pure arcade and pure hardcore sim, a market I'm covered by.




    ....and besides, a sim won't be truly hardcore until it simulates death by crashing, either by perma-deleting your game or actual literal player death.
     
  15. NevilleNobody

    NevilleNobody

    Messages:
    738
    100% this. There's iRacing and Project Cars for this. I am a fan of the ideas behind project Cars (though poorly executed) but have zero desire to spend countless hours fiddling with set ups for different track conditions. I am time poor, wife, kids, work etc and I love GTS (despite the poor handling model) because i can login, do a few qualy laps and race. Within 10 mins of that race finishing, i can race again!

    At most i would accept decel lock and downforce for race 3 but that is absolutely it, nothing else.
     
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  16. Shingo_civic

    Shingo_civic

    Messages:
    35
    For example suspension physics,compared to real life sometimes cars on GT seems to stiff,like they not have that much of spring return when cars go above road irregularities.
     
  17. VBR

    VBR Premium

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    6,742
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I'd like them to give more us options, the kind we tend to get in hardcore sims. For instance, the ability to turn off the unrealistic understeer/oversteer vibration effect.

    I really hate the way PD alienate certain groups within their customer base by forcing things on us rather than simply giving us a choice.

    The inability to turn off the arcade-style vibration, coupled with no Shuffle Mode (yet again), is a game killer for me.
     
  18. Groundfish

    Groundfish

    Messages:
    1,010
    Specifically what car and where?
    All cars too stiff? On all tracks?

    Edit
    VBR if you don’t want a bit of shake from the fronts shoving, focus on finding the proper steering angle for your speed.
    We discussed this before. Understeer is when the fronts push.
    You were referring to it as oversteer before which was very confusing.
     
  19. Shingo_civic

    Shingo_civic

    Messages:
    35
    Stiff not in the sense of suspension travel but in the sense that cars when go over a road irregularity or a curb after the jump you don't have that spring return like in real life (it is present but more limited in the game), it's a thing that i notice in all cars
     
  20. RacingGrandpa

    RacingGrandpa

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    163
    Race cars often has hydraulic bump stops, that really minimise this.
     
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  21. Lazybike

    Lazybike

    Messages:
    415
    I like it as it is, pick up and play, more tracks is all it needs.
     
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  22. Nielsen

    Nielsen

    Messages:
    6,237
    PD should continue improving the driving and racing simulation as far as the Playstation hardware allows without sacrificing graphics and sound. Hopefully the PS5 will find the sweet spot for GT.
     
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  23. Loverson

    Loverson

    Messages:
    594
    Game needs more option but it doesn't need deep real life mechanics.
    If it was the case we would have the idea of our car having a chance to die at any moment/ engine failures or kerbs mortally wounding the cars.

    Stuff like that also take the fun but more tracks, time trials, driving lessons, dynamic weather and such are always welcome.

    The only downside is the "Real Driving Simulator" which basically begs to be laughed on or challenged. I appreciate that pseudo arcade and sim feeling
     
  24. super_gt

    super_gt

    Messages:
    3,790
    Location:
    Bulgaria
    You can play GTS with Podium Racing Wheel F1.
    The other DD wheels are not officially licensed for PS, so no matter how hard the simulation becomes these wheels will not be compatible.
     
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  25. Bloodytears

    Bloodytears

    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Russian Federation
    I dunno, tires pressures and deep tuning is a good thing, but not like when you need to adjust every possible options before every single race, like in Project Cars. And if so, at least making Speed Sensitivity and other headaches auto corrected. No one really wants from a game about racing, those times to spent in menus, engineering.
     
  26. Clean Racer

    Clean Racer

    Messages:
    1,143
    No. I'm happy with the physics. There are other titles that fill the "hard core" niche.

    GT Sport needs to continue adding content (they have done very well in that regard) and bring time of day transitions to the next version.

    They are obviously bringing rain at some point so that is good. Even if some players are not into wet weather racing.

    I would like to see:

    Car customization where you can take any road car and upgrade it to a "competition version".

    Go after some licenses from the 90's. The1998 BTCC touring cars to be specific. The whole field!
     
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  27. TonyJZX

    TonyJZX

    Messages:
    2,857
    Sony wants GT to sell 5 mil copies plus per title... just like MS wants Forza to sell millions as the premiere driving title.

    So no, none of them want to make things harder.

    A good analogy is how "Horizon" is upsetting the apple cart for "Motorsport" as the premiere drive title.

    There's been a fair few examples where 'realism' doesnt work if you want more mainstream titles.

    GTA4 was a much 'realistic' title in physics than GTA5.

    Forza 5 had really detailed physics over Forza 6/7... they're not going back there.
     
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  28. breeminator

    breeminator

    Messages:
    381
    I voted no because, to me, "hardcore sim" means fake difficulty.

    I would like the cars to handle more realistically, but this wouldn't make them harder to drive, it would make them more enjoyable to drive. For example, I was doing free practice for the next Nations, in the '98 Civic Type R, and I haven't driven that exact model in real life, but I did own a '98 non-Type R Civic, and I also owned an '03 Type R. The car in the game behaves absolutely nothing like the real thing, it has a disconnectedness and awkwardness of handling that isn't there in real life. The '03 Type R that I owned was outstanding to drive. The steep power curve gave an exciting rush as the power rapidly increased through the rev range. It felt fast, whereas the car in the game feels lethargic. The real car had very direct and responsive steering, full of feel, again totally unlike the vague lifeless steering in the game where the car wallows around. The handling of the real car was progressive, and the amount of throttle had a huge effect on the balance of the car. In the game, it feels more like a binary switch where it decides you've steered too much, gets into a bit of a slide at a fixed angle offset, then recovers grip and flips the binary switch back the other way. And the handling doesn't vary with throttle like it does in real life, but maybe that's for the best given the game's non-linear throttle mapping.

    Another example is collisions, where slight bumps impart far too much energy and mean someone's race can be ruined as they are propelled off the track by an impact that just wouldn't do that in real life.

    So I think it can be made more realistic, but in ways that would make it more fun, enjoyable and satisfying, rather than "hardcore sim", which I associate with unrealistic behaviour to provide fake difficulty to exaggerate the differences between player abilities.
     
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  29. fastone371

    fastone371

    Messages:
    1,715
    Location:
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    My example would be car control and how it affects lap time. When watching replays it's usually pretty easy to pick out players using the DS4 because their car slides sideways into the corner under braking and again exits the corner sliding sliding. I have yet to see real cars actually gain time with tactics like this, in fact they normally lose massive amounts of time. Obviously not everyone using a DS4 drives like xc that but it's not uncommon to see. Also braking distances seem to be much shorter with a DS4, it just doesnt seem right that a player should have some advantages using a pad over using a wheel in a racing game. It really ruins watching great replays of races when you see some cars performing such unnatural movements during races, it's a shame considering how great everything looks due to PD's hard work.
     
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  30. Clean Racer

    Clean Racer

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    1,143
    Yes! This, exactly this! Thank you @fastone371
     
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