- 534
- Western Sahara
Care to elaborate?
Would you like the next GT to be a hardcore sim?
- Thread starter Shingo_civic
- 111 comments
- 5,847 views
- 1,840
- United States
Yes, this was possible in past editions of the game and would be a welcome return.
I like many of the older "road cars" but do not like driving or racing them on racetracks with the soft road suspensions and weak brakes.
Also would like to be able to "customize" the starting grid when setting up a custom race and between those two options you could make just about any vintage racing series you had a mind to do.
Would really add to the variety of racing options the player has at their fingertips.
- 2,085
- United Kingdom
- breeminator
- breeminator
Just that of the games I've played and how people talk about the sim<->arcade spectrum, yes, games at the arcade end can be too simplistic in their behaviour, but I feel that games I've played that are regarded as more "sim", while having more complex behaviour, often still aren't realistic, as such. For example, I feel that FM7 is more "sim" than GTS in terms of difficulty of controlling the cars, and the behaviour generally feels more complex, but at the same time, it still feels unrealistic to me. I watch a youtube video of Chris Harris comparing a Senna to a GT3 race car, for example, and he talks about how incredibly planted the GT3 race car is. But then you drive a car like that in FM7 and it's not incredibly planted, it's a bouncy wallowing mess. Yes, it means it requires skill to make it go fast, but I don't see it as realistic when the real car is said to be incredibly planted. Or PC2, yes, it's difficult, but I don't see the elements that make it difficult as being present in real life, so it feels like fake difficulty to me. I haven't playing iRacing, but people talk about it having a very binary type of grip, where it has lots of grip until it suddenly doesn't. Obviously that is going to make it difficult, but it doesn't seem realistic. I haven't played Assetto Corsa, perhaps if I did that would be an example of a game that is regarded as "sim" while also feeling realistic, that seems to be what people say about it.
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
Wow.
In my 35 plus days of time into this game I am constantly amazed at the replays and how the other cars are shown to me in sport mode.
The only time things look strange is when I go into another drivers view on replay.
Sometimes you see kinda ‘rough’ ds4 technique.
I actually really like that the game DOESNT show it that way.
I don’t see the cars doing that on replay or during game, it ONLY shows when changing to the perspective of the other driver on replay.
99 percent of my replays are from a and b and s sr rooms though.
I mean the replays in game are AWESOME.
The replays in GT Sport are excellent.
I’m perplexed by your post tbh.
I see the opposite. I’ve thought to myself many times when going into other drivers view and looking at their inputs I’m glad I don’t see that on the outside during race or replay.
I like Dirt Rally 2 replays also but GT Sports are in another league of quality imo.
I agree with the posts above. Great term fake difficulty.
- 963
- United Kingdom
Hardcore sims never do the big numbers that GT Sport is able to do, simply because it's not accessible and doesn't cater to casual players/fans.
It would basically be commercial suicide.
It would basically be commercial suicide.
- 14,423
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
Any vehicle can drive bad in the hands of a bad driver. I think there's a misconception that because a car is supposed to handle good, or be "planted" that it should be accomplished by anyone who happens to be in the driver seat trying to push said vehicle to it's limits.
These "hardcore sims" are not "difficult" because of unrealistic behavior, it's the opposite really. The thing is, if you have a basic understanding of how a car should be handling, than none of these games are inherently difficult. Sure, it'll have a learning curve, but even games that sit at the middle of the spectrum, or that are even full on arcade, all have their own learning curve. I can jump into Pcars just fine, and that doesn't matter what game I was coming from whether it be GT, Forza, or Need For Speed. The hurdle that game came with though is that there are far less dampening for pad users so that's probably why people tend to call it difficult, mainly because they just aren't used to it. Also because of the fact that in the case of Pcars, you have full adjustability of the input settings as well - that a lone can hurt you if you don't know what you're doing, and is something we don't have available to us in games like Forza or GT.
- 1,402
- United Kingdom
- evildave333
Gameplay trumps simulation, If you want realism do a track day.
- 564
- Italy
Not everyone can do a trackday unfortunately...in fact many people doesn't even have a car then the only posibility for these people who want to experience that sensation of racing a car in a realistic way is throught virtual simulators
- 2,827
- Curitiba
Hardcore sims are more and more a niche genre and, frankly, once you get to a "perfect" physics simulation level, they all kinda feel the same. Plus, all of them seem to be engineered towards this bizarre goal of proving that realism is an undrivable car on track, like if it isn't insanely difficult to keep it on line, it isn't a simulator. A few years ago I saw a discussion about racing games realism where Ben Collins was arguing that all games seems to try to make racing cars almost impossible to handle, where in reality is generally the opposite: they are "easy" to control, hard to master and find time on by most drivers.
So, I ask, another hardcore racing simulator on an already confused world?
I'd like more to see a even more polished game, fixing some design choices like shoehorning rally just for the sake of it since GT2 - if you won't do it properly, just leave it alone - a more diverse track hoster, an overhaul of the car classes so that they actually resemble real motorsport, a revamped career mode, hillclimb events and whatnot are much more feasible and - dare I say - useful features than going full on simulation in my opinion.
So, I ask, another hardcore racing simulator on an already confused world?
I'd like more to see a even more polished game, fixing some design choices like shoehorning rally just for the sake of it since GT2 - if you won't do it properly, just leave it alone - a more diverse track hoster, an overhaul of the car classes so that they actually resemble real motorsport, a revamped career mode, hillclimb events and whatnot are much more feasible and - dare I say - useful features than going full on simulation in my opinion.
- 534
- Western Sahara
I honestly don't know where or how people come to this conclusion... The amount of grip in AC & Pcars 2 is greatly higher than in GTS and yet you often clock slower lap times in those games... Basically the only way to loose control is when driving over a curb or bump, or from side to side contacts - Then, obviously, driving on RSS tires isn't always an option either... Nordscleife sure is more difficult and unforgiving.
Prior last physics patches GTS was more demanting than AC or Pcars 2; especially if you wanted to clock somewhat competitive lap times. Heck, even the stock MX-5 required constant countersteering & careful pedal work in one of the game's early license tests, it was like driving on ice & they fixed it just recently.
Imo GTS's is getting easier after each update; like it's still finding it's own place -> closer to 'Hardcore sims' which is a good thing.
https://www.gtplanet.net/kazunori-yamauchi-driving-simulators-shouldnt-difficult/
I wonder if this assumption towards other sims is coming from pad users.
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- 2,553
- United States
- 2,095
- FL, USA, Earth, Sol, Local Bubble, Milky Way
- TeamACRZARacingo
- GyroxOpex
As a huge fan of Assetto Corsa, which is known for its insanely steep learning curve and very realistic physics... no. GT is more of a game, which is why I like it. Although I've come to appreciate AC's approach of allowing you to drive any car on any track at any time, I feel there's just as much room for games with money systems, heavily-emphasized career modes, etc. Plus, the driving is more approachable - it's easier to just hop into an unfamiliar car on an unfamiliar track and start setting quick laps, which can be a nice change of pace from Assetto. GT isn't this mega-hyper-realistic sim, nor should it be. Because if it went that route, it would lose the balance between approachability and realism that makes it so great. And worse, it may turn off people from diving into the deep, weird world of sim racing. After all, GT is much more of a mass-market product than AC or rFactor or LFS or whatever. It's a gateway, and if it were to become a super-hardcore sim, then instead of exposing people to sim racing, it would probably just frustrate most people and make them not want to play it or any other sims anymore.
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- 1,402
- United Kingdom
- evildave333
Yes and for the people without driving licenses there is I-racing, for console gamers who want to enjoy their gameplay there is gran turismo. The only thing gran turismo needs is a graded difficulty curve for the AI, (the better ive got at the game the less I play it which is daft lol). I think rain and maybe even snow at some point would make the game fresh again.
- 3,449
- Theresa, Wisconsin
Yeah, viewing from other drivers" cars is when it is most apparent. It sounds like we race in similar lobbies. I notice this most when I find someone who seems unreasonably fast yet not very smooth. Even during the race these are the drivers who are hard to make a move on because if you do catch them in a corner you can never be sure where their car will be because they spend so much time sliding, they cant follow the normal racing line, yet they can be dam fast. If you want to race clean it can be almost impossible to pass them anywhere near the corner. It doesnt matter who hits who in the situation, it always ends up being a blame game, I guess thats why it seems so noticeable to me. If you follow real life racing you can see a driver make an almost imperceptible mistake at the entry of 1 corner and it costs them 3-4/10ths of a second minimum in 1 sector but in GTS you have drivers who are not close to being smooth and dont follow a normal fast racing line and they may be knocking on the door of a top 10 time.
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
Right imo on ds4 it’s the games help.
I like it. More players and you can’t tell the difference while racing.
But if you make those same inputs on wheel you’ll be sinning sliding and getting passed or crashed.
Jmo
- 564
- Italy
The reason you can see other players cars all over the place and doing strange racing lines is all because of the lag i think.Not driving smooth on GT i guarantee you that's not the right way to go fast
- 662
- New Jersey
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that hard to simulate without having a seat that actually moves?
Also, I voted no.
If you made this a hardcore Sim, you realize that driving Group 1 cars would be impossible right? There is more to shifting those things than just a paddle. Have to grab the clutch from the side of the wheel with one hand and then shift with the other. Imagine having to do this at 195 MPH?
Now, I admit, maybe having brake fluid pressure, or having to watch the temperature of the fluid would be kind of cool and would eliminate those in sport mode who feel the need to just use my rear bumper to slow down; because chances are, they'd blow their brakes being so careless.
- 534
- Western Sahara
No matter how big the jump/bounce is in GTS, cars will never bounce back or barely unsettle the handling. It's always a perfect telemark landing.
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- 261
- Lisbon
What do you mean? The hand clutch on LMP1 cars is only for standing starts as far as i know.
- 7,112
- Massachusetts
- llClaude_Speedll
- BlazingSol05
Please god no. They already tried that with Sport and it flopped hard. Lots of veteran GT Fans felt alienated, myself included. I'm grateful that they brought it closer to GT6 in terms of gameplay.
By literally no metric has GT Sport “flopped hard.” Sport has already outsold GT6, despite requiring an internet connection and basically requiring a PS+ subscription. All things considered, quite a feat.
While true it is no longer a car collecting game, and that fact has made yourself & some fans justifiably upset - your post is basically this:
- 328
- United States
Yes. The more realistic the physics engine, the better. Sport is great for F.I.A. competitions but outside of that, there isn't much other than the online lobby communities here on GT Planet and it feels more Arcade like with all of the constant physics model adjustments that take away from torque steer and tire slip. If GT7 releases and goes back to the larger scale single player campaigns where you start out buying a used car for the Sunday Cup, then yes. Realistic simulation physics would be very welcome. With that, I think they could bring in dynamic time and weather changes similar to GT6 but more improved. Then again, Kaz has always wanted the Gran Turismo series to be playable at any age so I doubt we will see a full physics revamp. Instead, I think it should be like most racing games now with options on how realistic the game feels. From "Classic Arcade" to "Full Simulation". Simply adding a physics option in the game would please any player at any level.
- 2,647
Whatever they do, they need to increase the immersion factor. I don’t get the feeling of driving awesome racing machines with huge grip like I do in other games like Assetto Corsa.
GTV0819
(Banned)
- 6,084
- Papua New Guinea
GT Sport has outsold GT6 because the PS4 was just keep getting better and better then, eventually overshadowing its predecessor and its previous generation titles. Just imagine if GT6 also came for the PS4. Now that would be a different story.
So also keep in mind that GT Sport is the only available GT title for the PS4 at the moment. But yes, even if it's just reaching two years since its release, GT Sport has done its job well as a first-party racing game in terms of sales.
- 15,119
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
I would love it if GT was a hardcore sim, but the reason for me playing it would change. I usually play GT Sport as an antidote to the sometimes frustrating Project Cars 2, which doesn't always feel than fun. F1 2019 is kinda the same in that regard. Making GT Sport a hardcore sim would make the game less enjoyable, and that's not what it's about. I play Project Cars to get my hardcore sim racing fix, which is fine with me. GT Sport is much more fun to play and highly enjoyable compared to the sim racers, and that's why I can't live without it. I like a challenge but sometimes I want to drive around and have fun without any pressure or burden.
