would you prefer super hard end game races for non-purchaseable prize cars?

[Johnnypenso]

I'll give you an example. Let's imagine the game has 4 really difficulty special events. One for nissan, one for cadillac, two for chevrolet and one art morrison one. For winning the nissan compeititon the prize would be the modern skyline concept car which is basically identical with the normal skyline. Caddy prize would be the cien concept. For the two chevy comps you get c7 prototype corvette and the Silverado SST Concept. Normal c7 would still be available but the concept model would be a special prize. For finishing the art morrison comp you would get the art morrison corvette.

Would this really break the game for you? 5 cars out of which only one is otherwise unavailable otherwise (cien)?

There is no right or wrong answer to this but to keep balance in the game, everyone has to have reasonable access to every available level of performance. What makes more sense is just to have different liveries on certain prize cars, so everyone knows if you have the GTAcademy livery for example, your car isn't any faster, but you completed "X" Challenge to get it.

 

[sumbrownkid]

The only way the AI can really challenge us vets is if it was a three lap race and we were two laps down to begin with.

 

[niky]

Actually it does because the base assumption is that having some difficul content automatically excludes some content from some players.

Again, again (again?)... what does the difficulty of game play have to do with the availability of content?

I.E.: who says that allowing players to buy cars automatically invalidates the career ladder and progression of the game in any way? It has only been that way in previous Turismo installments because of the lack of PP balancing. But with a system now in place where you can lock a player into a specific PP range for an event, whatever car they choose to enter it with, what's the point?

-

I have always gotten a chuckle out of the outrage over people "cloning" cars via game-saves or using the "borrowing glitch". I did find it mildly irritating that every thirteen year old on the planet was running Red Bulls online. At least until we got the ability to set room limits (before the whole system got hacked)... But if you can lock rooms down to specific cars and PP limits online, who.cares.what.other.people.do.with.the.game.

If people want to play in "sandbox mode", this does not change my personal enjoyment of the game.

I've asked niky at least 3 times already why few exclusive reward cars for example is just a big no no but only answers I'm getting is just that "it should not be done". Maybe you can give me a good reason.

Again, again (again, again), I'd like to remind you that my answer was not "no". Yet you seem oddly fixated on the idea that by saying "Felipe Massa", I am saying that the cars should be easy to get for everyone. I am not. I am just saying the challenges should be realistic and well-designed.

We are only going round in circles because you are reading into my replies things which I am not saying, and which I have already painstakingly explained that I am not saying.

 

[hyyperactive]

Again, again (again?)... what does the difficulty of game play have to do with the availability of content?

It is about the way certain group of players play the game. This group plays just to complete the game 100%. Often that means passing through every event with gold medal in gt5. It can also mean getting all cars or both. If the game has some really difficult races with special rewards then it can make the game fail for the player who plays to complete the game because those few extra hard difficulty events make it extra hard to go from 99% to 100% for example.

I.E.: who says that allowing players to buy cars automatically invalidates the career ladder and progression of the game in any way? It has only been that way in previous Turismo installments because of the lack of PP balancing. But with a system now in place where you can lock a player into a specific PP range for an event, whatever car they choose to enter it with, what's the point?

It is true that gt as game has to develop when it moves towards more multiplayer friendly game. For me gt has always been a game which is first and foremost a career mode. I don't really want to be a dick about but in my ideal world gt is always a game with a career mode - roleplaying type of money earning is kind of what gt is in its core. A value of car is not just how much credits it costs but how hard and how long you need to play it to get it. Don't get me wrong I don't want grinding.

But starting early in gt career I've always enjoyed very much that in the first few races I'm usually in totally slow car against ai and I really need to play well to earn those monies to get those sports aircleaners and cheapest weight reductions on my car. And now when thinking about it I think that early part of gt is really the only part where challenge in gt games existed because the more money you get the harder it is essentially lose the races. In gt5 it was probably first time I could effortlessly win my first race in that cheap pos car because the game was so totally easy and the ai so horribly slow and bad.

So players being able to buy cars automatically kind of breaks the career mode. Not that I have anything against players buying credits with real money and skipping the early part of the game. But if the career mode was removed from gt6 and you could use all cars and tune them with infinite credits then I think it would be less of a game. I understand it gets complicated when you need to earn money in offline mode to be able to use some cars in online mode but I think overall a good career mode is more important for gt than the easiness of getting the perfect garage for online racing. But that is just my opinion and it is a bit past the point because if we are discussing about the career mode difficulty then we already assume there is a career mode . But I also understand it is just my view and I don't want to tell others how to play their game.

who.cares.what.other.people.do.with.the.game.

Agree 100%.

If people want to play in "sandbox mode", this does not change my personal enjoyment of the game.

Agree 100%.

I am just saying the challenges should be realistic and well-designed.

We are only going round in circles because you are reading into my replies things which I am not saying, and which I have already painstakingly explained that I am not saying.

You use the word realistic challenges. I agree with that. All I'm saying is that I think it is a good idea to have small number of challenges in the game (special events, a-spec races, seasonals whatever) that are indeed really difficult. Just a few really difficult challenges that maybe only 5% of all players can complete. And that there could be few cars as prizes for those that are otherwise unavailable.

 

[Soundtrack]

All I'm saying is that I think it is a good idea to have small number of challenges in the game (special events, a-spec races, seasonals whatever) that are indeed really difficult. Just a few really difficult challenges that maybe only 5% of all players can complete. And that there could be few cars as prizes for those that are otherwise unavailable.

If you browse trow this site, chances are you’ll come across voodoo sorcerers that turn donkeys into thoroughbred horses, fetishists who hunt O/O/O virgins packed in a specific outfit or visionaries with points of view on things you didn’t suspected where in the game.

Can you draw up a list of 5 cars exclusive enough to be considered a remotely acceptable reward for a series of event only a breed of happy few very skilled drivers could have access to, but wouldn’t hurt in any potential way any of the tuners, car-nut-collectors or virtual photographers I previously mentioned.

Would you care to elaborate on what ground you consider their particular involvement and commitment to the game to be a significant lesser one to justify the fact you deprive them of the 5 said cars.

Hopefully, You may end up considering that valuable is a very subjective matter, and that no car featured in the game hardly meets those conflicting selection criteria.

 

[Nielsen]

The question is. would you care if there were cars that were unavailable to you via purchase? The only way you could obtain these exclusive cars would be to win them in extremely difficult and challenging events.

Ok, I like a good amount of difficulty but my answer is no. Every car should be purchasable.

Still not sure if it's being suggested that high difficulty would automatically exclude some cars from being purchasable. I think the question should have been formulated in a different way.

 

[Metfanant]

youre already talking about a game that barely anyone will ever complete 100% as it is...locking cars (that everyone pays equally for) behind extremely difficult AI does nothing but fragment the user base even more and discourage people from continuing to play....

shoot...as it is only 28.3% of GT5 players reached the "short" ending movie...and only .3% got a Gold trophy for every event!...just finishing the game puts you in the most elite of the elite status...

 

[g0ld]

I understand why some people don't want the game to have cars that can only be unlocked by completing a super hard event, and I sort of agree, but a couple of them is perfectly fine in my opinion. PD has done it before, with the Carbon X2010 (GT5), Nissan R89C, Ford Model T, Black FGT (GT4), etc. Having a special livery version of a certain car instead would also be nice, and not as restrictive too.

 

[hyyperactive]

Can you draw up a list of 5 cars exclusive enough to be considered a remotely acceptable reward for a series of event only a breed of happy few very skilled drivers could have access to, but wouldn’t hurt in any potential way any of the tuners, car-nut-collectors or virtual photographers I previously mentioned.

I've already done that. Read my posts if you are going to quote them...

Would you care to elaborate on what ground you consider their particular involvement and commitment to the game to be a significant lesser one to justify the fact you deprive them of the 5 said cars.

That doesn't make any sense. Nobody is being deprived of any cars.

Hopefully, You may end up considering that valuable is a very subjective matter, and that no car featured in the game hardly meets those conflicting selection criteria.

I'm 100% sure it is very easy actually to do.

locking cars (that everyone pays equally for)

So you would go to the diablo forums for example to complain that a special armor or sword was locked away from you despite you paying "equally" for the game?

This is very much the entitlement argument I was speaking earlier. People have this absolutely crazy idea that if you buy a game you should be able to get all contents because you paid for the game with real money. Nope. No, just no. You pay to earn to right to play the game. In the game you earn in game stuff by investing the time and effort the game. You play the game to progress in it.

 

[Youngun]

I hate to say this being a die hard Playstation fan but Forza 5 actually looks pretty good and is wasted on one console just like killzone is. There Driveratar cloud AI is ingenious and what GT7 should be based on. Company structure and microsoft backing will cripple what could be a dominante game but im not getting a xbone for that alone.
GT6 just needs to improve, article sugguest it has but GT7 needs to be built from the ground up. Just like pyshics and handling was for 6.

 

[Metfanant]

So you would go to the diablo forums for example to complain that a special armor or sword was locked away from you despite you paying "equally" for the game?

This is very much the entitlement argument I was speaking earlier. People have this absolutely crazy idea that if you buy a game you should be able to get all contents because you paid for the game with real money. Nope. No, just no. You pay to earn to right to play the game. In the game you earn in game stuff by investing the time and effort the game. You play the game to progress in it.

there is a difference in investing time and effort into something to unlock an item, and placing it behind a skill wall that only the elite can achieve....

i see you have glossed over the rest of my post...like i said early..

.3% of GT5 players achieved a Gold trophy for every event, .3!!!...i have no problem putting cars behind that type of requirement...because if someone wants to invest the time and effort into completing all events then more power to them...and even lower skilled players can grind away and eventually do it...

however this is a video game...not an F1 race...simple fact that no matter how much time and effort some people put into GT6 they will NEVER be able to post lap times in the top 1%...its just a fact...and i dont think people should be penalized for that in a game...in real life they are penalized by having a normal job and not making millions of dollars a year to drive around a track for a living...

i have no problem with earning things based on difficulty...but hiding content behind a wall that is just plain unattainable for 95%+ of the people who are going to buy the game regardless of time or effort put in is just plain wrong...

video games are not some mythical thing that i have to earn the right to enjoy....developers have to earn my money by making a good game or they lose their jobs...

 

[hyyperactive]

there is a difference in investing time and effort into something to unlock an item, and placing it behind a skill wall that only the elite can achieve....

It is not about there being some kind "elite". It is not about locking away something behind skill wall. Just like a ton of stuff in gt5 is locked behind "time spending" wall very little is locked behind skill wall - if anything at all.

Why is it bad to have some content that is truly difficult?

.3% of GT5 players achieved a Gold trophy for every event, .3!!!...i have no problem putting cars behind that type of requirement...because if someone wants to invest the time and effort into completing all events then more power to them...and even lower skilled players can grind away and eventually do it...

I'd like to see a source for that number. And a reason why it should even mean anything. Why is being able to 100% complete a gran turismo game so important? You talk about games being fun yet you only seem to care about being able to complete some meaningless number of events some game developer has managed to cram into the game before its release. Why is the ability to be able to complete a game 100% the single most important thing that seems to totally trump anything else when it comes to game design?

Let me tell you a fact about game design. Game developers when designing a game expect only a tiny percentage of players to complete the game.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/gaming.gadgets/08/17/finishing.videogames.snow/

You talk about small percentages of players completing the game and yet you want to create the game for that tiny group of people who only play gt games to 100% complete them? Aren't being totally blind to your own numbers? You say the game should not have content that is only passable for 5% of all users yet you want the whole game to be designed for other 5% group who instead of being skilled play the game just to get 100%? Give me a break.

If YOU want fun you should forget getting a 100% completed game because 100% completion means grinding in every single game. In every single game.

Anyways, here's one other totally random number:
http://www.p4rgaming.com/majority-of-gamers-today-cant-finish-level-1-in-super-mario-bros/

Why is it so hugely important that even the lowest skilled players can complete all content? Why is that more important than providing a game that can challenge everybody?

however this is a video game...not an F1 race...simple fact that no matter how much time and effort some people put into GT6 they will NEVER be able to post lap times in the top 1%...its just a fact...and i dont think people should be penalized for that in a game..

Nobody is penalized. Here we go with the entitlement idea again. "I paid for it so I must be able to complete it easily"..."I bought it so it is my right to get access to all content".

i have no problem with earning things based on difficulty...but hiding content behind a wall that is just plain unattainable for 95%+ of the people who are going to buy the game regardless of time or effort put in is just plain wrong...

Why is it wrong? And why is something like 5 cars at most that are behind a skill wall "wrong"? Just because?

video games are not some mythical thing that i have to earn the right to enjoy....developers have to earn my money by making a good game or they lose their jobs...

It is a fact that challenge and failure make a game more fun.

 

[Soundtrack]

I've already done that.

I’m afraid you haven’t.

Read my posts if you are going to quote them...

Allow me to find this slightly amusing coming from someone who deliberately cuts a one sentence post in half in order to mislead to a non existing conclusion.

That doesn't make any sense. Nobody is being deprived of any cars.

Maybe it is here something is indeed lost in the process of translation. In french “priver quelqu’un de”= to deprive somebody of. (source:http://dictionnaire.reverso.net/francais-anglais/priver qn de)

By conditioning access to whatever exclusive car to the achievement of :

Just a few really difficult challenges that maybe only 5% of all players can complete.

You theoretically forbid 95% of the players to ever enjoy it.

And don’t get me wrong, I’ve never implied that the game should be easy or be “purified” from any form of challenge. This is indeed a racing game so it must be quite natural to have a “from behind the wheel” point of view on the difficulties the game should bring to you. However considering the wider scope and palette of activities Gran Turismo has on offer, some not even involving driving cars, I can’t help but find it uncomfortably too restrictive.

Making all the car available doesn’t mean they should be gifted, but there should be multiple ways - no matter how tortuous - to access them, in order to allow the 95% you disregard the right to enjoy them.

I'm 100% sure it is very easy actually to do.

Give it a try, thank you.

 

[Metfanant]

It is not about there being some kind "elite". It is not about locking away something behind skill wall. Just like a ton of stuff in gt5 is locked behind "time spending" wall very little is locked behind skill wall - if anything at all.

Why is it bad to have some content that is truly difficult?

its not BAD...its just the type of skill level being talked about in this thread is just stupid...

I'd like to see a source for that number.

source? how about Sony themselves??...that percentage is the trophy rarity...

And a reason why it should even mean anything. Why is being able to 100% complete a gran turismo game so important?

the reason it means something, or is important here is because the people in this thread are asking for a level of difficulty that is equivalent to racing against a Formula 1 driver! That is simply unobtainable for 99.9% of the population...however...something like finishing GT5 IS doable...for almost anyone that is average or better at the game if they are dedicated enough to getting there and spending the time to do it...

no matter how many laps i turn in GT6 i know i will never be as fast as an F1 driver...its just a fact of life...thats why he is an F1 driver, and im not...so that is completely discouraging for me, and will be something that frustrates me into giving up very quickly...

You talk about games being fun yet you only seem to care about being able to complete some meaningless number of events some game developer has managed to cram into the game before its release. Why is the ability to be able to complete a game 100% the single most important thing that seems to totally trump anything else when it comes to game design?

Jesus Christ, talk about spinning my words to try and fit your crap logic...wow...

its simply the matter of the FACT that completing a game like GT5 already puts you in ELITE company (again, .3%)...but its also something that CAN be earned by anyone that wants to dedicate the time and effort to doing so...that is something much more reasonable to make people do to earn content in the game...

Let me tell you a fact about game design. Game developers when designing a game expect only a tiny percentage of players to complete the game.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/TECH/gaming.gadgets/08/17/finishing.videogames.snow/

You talk about small percentages of players completing the game and yet you want to create the game for that tiny group of people who only play gt games to 100% complete them? Aren't being totally blind to your own numbers? You say the game should not have content that is only passable for 5% of all users yet you want the whole game to be designed for other 5% group who instead of being skilled play the game just to get 100%? Give me a break.

you are so far off base its comical...i mean no disrespect, but im literally sitting here laughing aloud at you...im simply saying that this is a more REASONABLE goal for people to achieve than locking content behind some arbitrary measure of skill that no matter how much time and effort is put into completing is simply IMPOSSIBLE for 99% of people...completing GT5 was exceptionally rate...but IMPOSSIBLE for very few people...if you WANTED to do it...you could...

If YOU want fun you should forget getting a 100% completed game because 100% completion means grinding in every single game. In every single game.

Anyways, here's one other totally random number:
http://www.p4rgaming.com/majority-of-gamers-today-cant-finish-level-1-in-super-mario-bros/

again the distance you are from the point is pure comedy...

Why is it so hugely important that even the lowest skilled players can complete all content? Why is that more important than providing a game that can challenge everybody?

because even the lowest skilled player paid as much money as you for said content...there is nothing wrong with a game being challenging for everyone...to the contrary games SHOULD be challenging for everyone (if the gamer wants it to be challenging)...

i must ask why is it so important to you to deprive others of content which they would enjoy?? does it truly effect your gaming experience if Tim down the street is able to drive a Bugatti Veyron even though he sucks at the game?...

are you that reliant on extrinsic motivations to feel adequate that you feel the need to have content witheld from those that a simply not as skilled at driving a 3d modeled car around a 3d modeled track as you??...should you not be able to simply be satisfied with your own accomplishment of completing the challenge without a silly reward??

Nobody is penalized. Here we go with the entitlement idea again. "I paid for it so I must be able to complete it easily"..."I bought it so it is my right to get access to all content".

yes...it would be no different than going to a baseball game and having the team say to you "Sorry, you have leave your seat when certain players are at bat because you cant hit a major league fastball, so you dont deserve to watch the whole game even though you paid for it"

Why is it wrong? And why is something like 5 cars at most that are behind a skill wall "wrong"? Just because?

its wrong on every level...period

It is a fact that challenge and failure make a game more fun.

driving against AI with the skill of an F1 driver is not going to be "fun" for 99.99% of people...because it is a goal that CANNOT be achieved...

 

[hyyperactive]

I’m afraid you haven’t.

What's this?

I don't see the huge tragedy if some cars were only available from doing a difficult competition. Just make sure those are not the important cars. The special concept model modern skyline would be great competition reward in gt5. Same with the art morrison corvette, cadillac cien, c7 prototype corvette or the Silverado SST Concept.

Maybe it is here something is indeed lost in the process of translation. In french “priver quelqu’un de”= to deprive somebody of. (source:http://dictionnaire.reverso.net/francais-anglais/priver qn de)

By conditioning access to whatever exclusive car to the achievement of :

You theoretically forbid 95% of the players to ever enjoy it.

Access to EVERYTHING in gt games is "conditioned" because without playing the game you will not have any content at all on your account.

However considering the wider scope and palette of activities Gran Turismo has on offer, some not even involving driving cars, I can’t help but find it uncomfortably too restrictive.

Indeed considering the wide scope and palette of acivities gr has to offer some difficult content would fit right in perfectly. But yeah if making 5 cars out of 1200 only available through specially difficult events is too restrictive then what isn't?

Give it a try, thank you.

I've already given it a try. Apparently the cars I picked were so uniportant you even missed the post where I mentioned them...

its not BAD.

Well ok.

the reason it means something, or is important here is because the people in this thread are asking for a level of difficulty that is equivalent to racing against a Formula 1 driver! That is simply unobtainable for 99.9% of the population...however...something like finishing GT5 IS doable...for almost anyone that is average or better at the game if they are dedicated enough to getting there and spending the time to do it...

I ask again. Why is it bad to have content in the game that is not obtainable for everybody?

Finishing gt5 is not about achieving 100% completion. You have finished the game when you see the ending credits/ending movie. That doesn't mean the game doesn't have anymore content left. In fact many games offer some difficult content (bonus levels, another playthrough with more difficult enemies etc.) after you have finished the game.

no matter how many laps i turn in GT6 i know i will never be as fast as an F1 driver...its just a fact of life...thats why he is an F1 driver, and im not...so that is completely discouraging for me, and will be something that frustrates me into giving up very quickly...

So if there are few races in the game which you can not win you become frustrated at the game? A few races will make you give up on the whole game? I'm sorry but if I took that same approach in every game I play I couldn't play anything because I'd get totally frustrated all the time. Even in gt5 I have not completed every race and for some reason that doesn't frustrate me. I'm sorry but I can't relate to your problems at all. If not being able to win couple of races in a game that offers probably closer to 200 races is such a big deal then... it is just something. I don't know. A strange way to play videogames because there is no way to play a videogame without getting frustrated?

Jesus Christ, talk about spinning my words to try and fit your crap logic...wow...

its simply the matter of the FACT that completing a game like GT5 already puts you in ELITE company (again, .3%)...but its also something that CAN be earned by anyone that wants to dedicate the time and effort to doing so...that is something much more reasonable to make people do to earn content in the game...

I wasn't spinning your words at all. I just took you to the natural direction where your own numbers hould have taken you. You don't want (I've never mentioned 99.9% difficulty) few difficult events because too small number of people would be able to complete them. But at the same time you want every event in the game to be winnable for average player despite your own numbers showing that only similarly small number care about 100% completing the game and winning all events.

You use small percentage of players being very skilled as a reason to not have difficult events in the game - but for some reason you use small numbers to justify making the game 100% completive (not sure about the spelling of that word) for everybody despite only small percentage of players who actually 100% complete the game.

Self-contradiction.

you are so far off base its comical...i mean no disrespect, but im literally sitting here laughing aloud at you...im simply saying that this is a more REASONABLE goal for people to achieve than locking content behind some arbitrary measure of skill that no matter how much time and effort is put into completing is simply IMPOSSIBLE for 99% of people...completing GT5 was exceptionally rate...but IMPOSSIBLE for very few people...if you WANTED to do it...you could...

And very very few did.

again the distance you are from the point is pure comedy...

because even the lowest skilled player paid as much money as you for said content...there is nothing wrong with a game being challenging for everyone...to the contrary games SHOULD be challenging for everyone (if the gamer wants it to be challenging)...

You pay to play. Not pay to access all game content automatically. You pay to earn the right to play. You play to earn the right to access the game content. In gt5 you do not get access to ferari f1 car by buying the game. You play the game to earn the access to the ferrari f1 car as the game mechanics allow you to do so.

Would you go to complain on diablo forums that you have to play the game to get the mightiest battleaxe or that sexy blue zombiehelmet despite you "having already paid for the game"? Do you go to world of medal shooter forum to complain you don't have some end game equipment despite you having paid for the game? Or if god forbid you have to do a difficult mission to get that helmet?

The lowest skilled player paid for the game and thus he earned the right to play the game. Period. How the game mechanics work is decided by the game developer, not the player "who bought the game with his own money".

i must ask why is it so important to you to deprive others of content which they would enjoy?? does it truly effect your gaming experience if Tim down the street is able to drive a Bugatti Veyron even though he sucks at the game?...

I'm not depring anybody of anything. I just think having few extremely difficult events would make gt a better game and would add more longevity and challenge to those who want it. If some people want lots of cars then let them have it. If someone wants really long 24h races you need to do alone then let them have it. If those events grant special cars then it's fine by me. I think having some special cars (or just special liveries or special edition of existing cars with no performance differences) would add nice bit of prestigue and bragging rights and would make doing the difficult events worthwhile. If the bottom 1% has events tailored to them then why not have small amount of events tailored towards the most challenge loving part of the gt players as well?

are you that reliant on extrinsic motivations to feel adequate that you feel the need to have content witheld from those that a simply not as skilled at driving a 3d modeled car around a 3d modeled track as you??...should you not be able to simply be satisfied with your own accomplishment of completing the challenge without a silly reward??

Why should the hardest and most difficult even in the game have no unique rewards at all?

yes...it would be no different than going to a baseball game and having the team say to you "Sorry, you have leave your seat when certain players are at bat because you cant hit a major league fastball, so you dont deserve to watch the whole game even though you paid for it"

So when you bought your gt5 game you did not pay for the game but you bought game time? Nope, you bought the game and you can play it as much as you want. Having some difficult events in the game doesn't stop anyone from playing the game...

its wrong on every level...period

Period! lol! Why should we not donate money to charity/help elderly person across the street/help co-worker with work related issue? Because it is wrong on every level! But that doesn't answer the question why...? But let's do it anyway! Because reasons!

driving against AI with the skill of an F1 driver is not going to be "fun" for 99.99% of people...because it is a goal that CANNOT be achieved...

It is only 5 races out of 200. Hardly a massive issue for anyone?

 

[zzz_pt]

Well, yes.

 

[Soundtrack]

Pretty sure any concept and/or prototype matters to the collectors I previously mentioned. It as nothing to do to with what you or me consider important cars.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Wall of text......What's this?
Access to EVERYTHING in gt games is "conditioned" because without playing the game you will not have any content at all on your account.


Indeed considering the wide scope and palette of acivities gr has to offer some difficult content would fit right in perfectly. But yeah if making 5 cars out of 1200 only available through specially difficult events is too restrictive then what isn't?


I've already given it a try. Apparently the cars I picked were so uniportant you even missed the post where I mentioned them...


Well ok.



I ask again. Why is it bad to have content in the game that is not obtainable for everybody?

Finishing gt5 is not about achieving 100% completion. You have finished the game when you see the ending credits/ending movie. That doesn't mean the game doesn't have anymore content left. In fact many games offer some difficult content (bonus levels, another playthrough with more difficult enemies etc.) after you have finished the game.


So if there are few races in the game which you can not win you become frustrated at the game? A few races will make you give up on the whole game? I'm sorry but if I took that same approach in every game I play I couldn't play anything because I'd get totally frustrated all the time. Even in gt5 I have not completed every race and for some reason that doesn't frustrate me. I'm sorry but I can't relate to your problems at all. If not being able to win couple of races in a game that offers probably closer to 200 races is such a big deal then... it is just something. I don't know. A strange way to play videogames because there is no way to play a videogame without getting frustrated?


I wasn't spinning your words at all. I just took you to the natural direction where your own numbers hould have taken you. You don't want (I've never mentioned 99.9% difficulty) few difficult events because too small number of people would be able to complete them. But at the same time you want every event in the game to be winnable for average player despite your own numbers showing that only similarly small number care about 100% completing the game and winning all events.

You use small percentage of players being very skilled as a reason to not have difficult events in the game - but for some reason you use small numbers to justify making the game 100% completive (not sure about the spelling of that word) for everybody despite only small percentage of players who actually 100% complete the game.

Self-contradiction.


And very very few did.


You pay to play. Not pay to access all game content automatically. You pay to earn the right to play. You play to earn the right to access the game content. In gt5 you do not get access to ferari f1 car by buying the game. You play the game to earn the access to the ferrari f1 car as the game mechanics allow you to do so.

Would you go to complain on diablo forums that you have to play the game to get the mightiest battleaxe or that sexy blue zombiehelmet despite you "having already paid for the game"? Do you go to world of medal shooter forum to complain you don't have some end game equipment despite you having paid for the game? Or if god forbid you have to do a difficult mission to get that helmet?

The lowest skilled player paid for the game and thus he earned the right to play the game. Period. How the game mechanics work is decided by the game developer, not the player "who bought the game with his own money".


I'm not depring anybody of anything. I just think having few extremely difficult events would make gt a better game and would add more longevity and challenge to those who want it. If some people want lots of cars then let them have it. If someone wants really long 24h races you need to do alone then let them have it. If those events grant special cars then it's fine by me. I think having some special cars (or just special liveries or special edition of existing cars with no performance differences) would add nice bit of prestigue and bragging rights and would make doing the difficult events worthwhile. If the bottom 1% has events tailored to them then why not have small amount of events tailored towards the most challenge loving part of the gt players as well?


Why should the hardest and most difficult even in the game have no unique rewards at all?


So when you bought your gt5 game you did not pay for the game but you bought game time? Nope, you bought the game and you can play it as much as you want. Having some difficult events in the game doesn't stop anyone from playing the game...


Period! lol! Why should we not donate money to charity/help elderly person across the street/help co-worker with work related issue? Because it is wrong on every level! But that doesn't answer the question why...? But let's do it anyway! Because reasons!


It is only 5 races out of 200. Hardly a massive issue for anyone?

The solution to your dilemma is simple. Difficulty sliders for ASpec and all events. Anyone can complete them at level 1, at level 10 only the top X% are ever likely to grind it out or have the skill. So long as the rewards are not performance oriented, it's not a problem. When you can get something performance wise I can't get because I didn't grind out 500 hours of offline racing, then you throw the balance of the game off. I show up in the lobby with my cool LFA ready to trounce noobs and Vettel's alike, you show up in the LFA Nurb GT Academy 500 Hours of ASpec Edition that's 1.5 seconds a lap faster and I have no chance of winning. That doesn't make for a balanced game and will drive people away from the game, rather than towards it.

Win a cool paint job fine. A cool livery, no problem. A sign on your car that says, "I am way cooler than you", great. Win a faster car that I don't have reasonable access to given my time limitations with the game and we have a problem.

 

[hyyperactive]

The solution to your dilemma is simple. Difficulty sliders for ASpec and all events. Anyone can complete them at level 1, at level 10 only the top X% are ever likely to grind it out or have the skill. So long as the rewards are not performance oriented, it's not a problem. When you can get something performance wise I can't get because I didn't grind out 500 hours of offline racing, then you throw the balance of the game off.

Yes, difficulty sliders would be good for a-spec. Forza does that really well with giving bigger prizes for more difficult races. But for difficult special events there is no need to have difficulty sliders. Just have a special event which consists of series of races (say 10 races) where the difficulty rises after each race and the last one (1) of them is super difficult. The first one would be easy and the last ones hard.

I show up in the lobby with my cool LFA ready to trounce noobs and Vettel's alike, you show up in the LFA Nurb GT Academy 500 Hours of ASpec Edition that's 1.5 seconds a lap faster and I have no chance of winning. That doesn't make for a balanced game and will drive people away from the game, rather than towards it.

That is just stupidly over exaggerating and misinterpreting the whole idea. Try to discuss in civil manner and drop the trolling tactics please. Stop making stupid stuff up I never said. And stop using strawman tactics in this discussion: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

I've always said the prize should not be better than the other cars. Just different. That's why I chose those cars. And when I chose those cars i did not even go through the list, I just picked the first 5 cars that felt appropriate. The skyline tokyo concept for example has less power than the stock premium gtr...

Win a cool paint job fine. A cool livery, no problem. A sign on your car that says, "I am way cooler than you", great. Win a faster car that I don't have reasonable access to given my time limitations with the game and we have a problem.

I've never said the prize cars should be or would be faster. C7 concept corvette or the skyline gtr concept car are not better than the normal versions but would be great prizes in their uniqueness.