2014 NASCAR Thread

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Because that obviously counts when we're talking about NASCAR and more specifically the Sprint Cup...

Calm down he's just joking, geez no reason to be a stick in the mud here.

It just gets old really, and not sure why you care what other people think? Same deal with WRC, Sebastian Loeb dominated, so I stopped watching. Formula 1 this season is a mess, apparently if you're not driving a Mercedes you can't win. V8Supercars has it's own Jimmy Johnson in the form of Jamie Whincup and I don't like him either. I like variety in my motorsports, and that includes race winners. .

So you hate good team work...sorry that tends to win races and in long stretches. You should know it comes with being a racing fan.

 

[The Bman]

It just gets old really, and not sure why you care what other people think? Same deal with WRC, Sebastian Loeb dominated, so I stopped watching. Formula 1 this season is a mess, apparently if you're not driving a Mercedes you can't win. V8Supercars has it's own Jimmy Johnson in the form of Jamie Whincup and I don't like him either. I like variety in my motorsports, and that includes race winners. .

There will always be a dominant figure in any racing series. If you can't stand seeing one person dominate, don't watch motorsports.

 

[CodeRedR51]

There will always be a dominant figure in any racing series. If can't stand seeing one person dominate, don't watch motorsports.

And if you can't stand people posting their disapproval on a forum, don't be here.

 

[Carbonox]

There will always be a dominant figure in any racing series. If you can't stand seeing one person dominate, don't watch motorsports.

There's plenty of series out there without any sorts of dominant figures. And they wonder why I skip MotoGP and only watch the lower categories...

 

[The Bman]

And if you can't stand people posting their disapproval on a forum, don't be here.

It's the same thing every time that Johnson wins a race. He crosses the line in 1st, and a good chunk of the forum complains about it when they have no control of what happens on the race track. There's nothing you can do to stop Johnson from winning so why complain more about it and think it will change?

There's plenty of series out there without any sorts of dominant figures. And they wonder why I skip MotoGP and only watch the lower categories...

Because lower series in racing have much greater a variety. Trucks looks to be the only exception for NASCAR; even Nationwide has had the same champions very frequently before those champions move up to the Cup level.

The thing that applies for lower racing series is that a lot of the champions from the past year move up a level after their championship victory. Had they stayed in that series any longer, they'd keep dominating.

 

[Carbonox]

Because lower series in racing have much greater a variety. Trucks looks to be the only exception in NASCAR; even Nationwide has had the same champions very frequently before those champions move up to the Cup level.

No one has ever won more than 2 Nationwide/Busch championships.

 

[The Bman]

No one has ever won more than 2 Nationwide/Busch championships.

...due to few Cup drivers (before 2011 changed everything) running the full schedule more than one year in a row.

 

[Carbonox]

...due to few Cup drivers (before 2011 changed everything) running the full schedule more than one year in a row.

But remember, the variety was generally constantly great before 2006 ruined everything. The only one who utterly managed to dominate that series was Sam Ard, and his career only lasted for 3 years before that huge injury.

 

[MustangRyan]

After thirteen races, ten different drivers have won a race, and no one has won more than twice. Among the winless are last season's seven-race-winner Matt Kenseth, three-time Cup champion Tony Stewart, and other credible race winners like Bowyer, Kahne, Newman, and Biffle. With two road courses and two more plate races left, guys like Ambrose, Allmendinger, McMurray, and Ragan can't be completely ruled out of contention either.

I don't see how this can be semi-reasonably compared to F1, where it's Mercedes.......... and then everyone else.

 

[The Bman]

But remember, the variety was generally constantly great before 2006 ruined everything. The only one who utterly managed to dominate that series was Sam Ard, and his career only lasted for 3 years before that huge injury.

How many Cup drivers drove every race in the season before 2006's twist-up?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

After thirteen races, ten different drivers have won a race, and no one has won more than twice. Among the winless are last season's seven-race-winner Matt Kenseth, three-time Cup champion Tony Stewart, and other credible race winners like Bowyer, Kahne, Newman, and Biffle. With two road courses and two more plate races left, guys like Ambrose, Allmendinger, McMurray, and Ragan can't be completely ruled out of contention either.

I don't see how this can be semi-reasonably compared to F1, where it's Mercedes.......... and then everyone else.

Yeah exactly maybe if this was the 2012 season which then became a two man show which I think others are expect to happen here at some point (Harvick and Johnson or someone else). I think anyone in the top ten in points can win it. And really all it takes it things falling in place like they have for Johnson. I wouldn't get too worried with JJ winning since he was never not a threat.

 

[Carbonox]

How many Cup drivers drove every race in the season before 2006's twist-up?

None, and that's how it should be. Have you seen Sebastian Vettel doing GP2, Marc Marquez going back to Moto2, or Scott Dixon jumping into Indy Lights?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

None, and that's how it should be. Have you seen Sebastian Vettel doing GP2, Marc Marquez going back to Moto2, or Scott Dixon jumping into Indy Lights?

Nope but I did see Romain Grosjean do it, I've seen a couple Moto GP guys go down to the lower WSBK and well Indy Lights who would want to jump down to that...? None of those groupings are really feeder systems like Nationwide to Nascar other than having the top tier teams providing services and backing to make sure the right guys make it into cup.

 

[Carbonox]

Nope but I did see Romain Grosjean do it, I've seen a couple Moto GP guys go down to the lower WSBK and well Indy Lights who would want to jump down to that...? None of those groupings are really feeder systems like Nationwide to Nascar other than having the top tier teams providing services and backing to make sure the right guys make it into cup.

Yes, but they did it because they couldn't secure a seat from the top level, so it's only natural they had to go down. But running both the top and lower series full-time so you could make your total win tally look more impressive? In a way I blame NASCAR for this as well, as they've been deliberately making it easier for buschwhackers by having more Nationwide races take place at the same weekend and at the same track as the Cup race.

 

[The Bman]

None, and that's how it should be. Have you seen Sebastian Vettel doing GP2, Marc Marquez going back to Moto2, or Scott Dixon jumping into Indy Lights?

Of course, when you can't win an argument start a whole new one and try from there.

The point is, many drivers who win the championship in a lower NASCAR series go up to the next level the next year. Then you have the Cup drivers not running every race, therefore allowing the next best driver (who primarily runs in that series) to win the title without competition.

Jimmie Johnson is the greatest NASCAR driver of the mid to late 2000's and potentially the 2010's. Fact.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yes, but they did it because they couldn't secure a seat from the top level, so it's only natural they had to go down. But running both the top and lower series full-time so you could make your total win tally look more impressive? In a way I blame NASCAR for this as well, as they've been deliberately making it easier for buschwhackers by having more Nationwide races take place at the same weekend and at the same track as the Cup race.

Who said they do it for that? I mean hell there are a ton of cup guys that still dirt track race, just like F1 guys that still drive karts. Also why shouldn't nationwide be at the same tracks as Cup? Why shouldn't drivers be allowed to step down, it's a great teaching tool for up coming racers that will most likely race them in a year or two. You know like Chase Elliot.

@The Bman I'd say he was the best in a Gen 5 car, I don't think the same can be said yet with the Gen 6

 

[Furinkazen]

@Carbonox NW is nothing to do with Cup drivers. "Buschwhackers" were regular back in the day, considering how much old NASCAR you watch you should know this. The problem is not the cup drivers, but the lack of strong teams. Around 20% at least of NW is on average a S&P team or just so slow they get lapped within 20 minutes.

 

[Carbonox]

Who said they do it for that? I mean hell there are a ton of cup guys that still dirt track race, just like F1 guys that still drive karts. Also why shouldn't nationwide be at the same tracks as Cup? Why shouldn't drivers be allowed to step down, it's a great teaching tool for up coming racers that will most likely race them in a year or two. You know like Chase Elliot.

@The Bman I'd say he was the best in a Gen 5 car, I don't think the same can be said yet with the Gen 6

1. I have nothing against Nationwide racing at the same tracks at Cup, but keep those weekends separated. That way we won't require any regulations for buschwhacking either, when we can just make it difficult enough that the Cup drivers won't bother.
2. The only Cup drivers who I see realistically benefitting from buschwhacking are the ones having trouble with finding Cup success. Kyle Busch, Joey Logano and friends have nothing to gain from NW. If they think people will look up to them now that they wipe the floor with drivers who have much less experience - and generally worse equipment - than them, they better prepare for disappointment.

@Furinkazen At least Mark Martin had competition at his time. Current buschwhackers don't.

 

[Gerarghini]

I just wish the cup guys in NW wouldn't run the top-of-the-line equipment .

 

[Furinkazen]

1. I have nothing against Nationwide racing at the same tracks at Cup, but keep those weekends separated. That way we won't require any regulations for buschwhacking either, when we can just make it difficult enough that the Cup drivers won't bother.
2. The only Cup drivers who I see realistically benefitting from buschwhacking are the ones having trouble with finding Cup success. Kyle Busch, Joey Logano and friends have nothing to gain from NW. If they think people will look up to them now that they wipe the floor with drivers who have much less experience - and generally worse equipment - than them, they better prepare for disappointment.

@Furinkazen At least Mark Martin had competition at his time. Current buschwhackers don't.

Hmm. Let me look at the likes of the 2005 season.
http://racing-reference.info/raceyear/2005/B
http://racing-reference.info/yeardet/2005/B

Note how many competitive teams there are.

If this was 10 years ago with the COY you would be praising it. Also Mark Martin here is an irrelavance.

 

[MustangRyan]

The Cup drivers say that the extra seat time helps them get in a rhythm over the course of the weekend.

The sponsors say that the Cup drivers are a better value for their dollar in the Nationwide series.

The car owners see that Cup drivers get better results, which makes winning an owner's championship way more likely.

The races are held at the same track on the same weekend because stand-alone truck and/or Nationwide events are generally very poorly attended. The best way to sell a ticket to a lower-tier event is to bring in the big name Cup drivers on the same weekend as a Cup race.

 

[Furinkazen]

The Cup drivers say that the extra seat time helps them get in a rhythm over the course of the weekend.

The sponsors say that the Cup drivers are a better value for their dollar in the Nationwide series.

The car owners see that Cup drivers get better results, which makes winning an owner's championship way more likely.

The races are held at the same track on the same weekend because stand-alone truck and/or Nationwide events are generally very poorly attended. The best way to sell a ticket to a lower-tier event is to bring in the big name Cup drivers on the same weekend as a Cup race.

It's not drivers that hold NW back, but lack of well funded and decent teams and cars.

 

[Carbonox]

Hmm. Let me look at the likes of the 2005 season.
http://racing-reference.info/raceyear/2005/B
http://racing-reference.info/yeardet/2005/B

Note how many competitive teams there are.

If this was 10 years ago with the COY you would be praising it. Also Mark Martin here is an irrelavance.

Í haven't actually got that far yet. I'm at 1999 at the moment, and for the record, throughout the 90's, Martin would constantly show up in superior equipment on Cup tracks and get at least a win or 2 per year. Despite the occasional buschwhackers though, variety was great and the Busch regulars generally had more wins combined than the whackers did. This was partially helped by many events that were held on dates Cup drivers were unable to attend.

Of course, there were unfortunately races where it got way out of hand...

http://racing-reference.info/race/1996_Dura_Lube_200_(March)/B

 

[MustangRyan]

It's not drivers that hold NW back, but lack of well funded and decent teams and cars.

If there were more well-funded teams/cars, there would just be another Cup driver in the seat.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

1. I have nothing against Nationwide racing at the same tracks at Cup, but keep those weekends separated. That way we won't require any regulations for buschwhacking either, when we can just make it difficult enough that the Cup drivers won't bother.

I didn't say you did, but rather asked why. You didn't fully answer the question either, and it's quite asinine to seperate them because a few people think Cup drivers shouldn't race Nationwide full timers. I guess we should get rid of road course ringers as well in the Cup series.

2. The only Cup drivers who I see realistically benefitting from buschwhacking are the ones having trouble with finding Cup success. Kyle Busch, Joey Logano and friends have nothing to gain from NW. If they think people will look up to them now that they wipe the floor with drivers who have much less experience - and generally worse equipment - than them, they better prepare for disappointment.

Please speak for yourself. If these were Elliot Saddlers we were talking about instead of the likes of Kenseth and Busch brothers or Harvick who are quite established racers and run good no matter what they drive in NASCAR wise. Then I might see your point but @MustangRyan has shown why, and I also gave reason you still haven't addressed

 

[Furinkazen]

If there were more talented drivers as well, Cup guys wouldn't get rides so easy.

 

[cnd01]

I like the Cup guys in Nationwide and truck. It should help judge talent. If the Nationwide guys can hang with the likes of Kyle Busch and Joey Logano, then they can prove themselves worthy of a Sprint cup ride

 

[Cale]

In other new Larson moves into the 10th spot in points.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

In other new Larson moves into the 10th spot in points.

And Kenseth is points leader. I knew Gordon would lose it but I'm a bit impressed he held it as long as he did. I was expecting more of these types of weekends but they didn't happen so good on him for that.

 

[cnd01]

I think the Jimmie Johnson train is rolling. Question is: will he get unlucky in the chase. With this format, whether or not you wreck at Dega will probably determine who wins the championship