2014 United Sports Car Championship

[cnd01]

My only real issue with the DP is that I have doubts about how safe it is. Having seen the accident that Mike Rockenfeller survived relatively unharmed at Le Mans in 2011 live on Eurosport, and then seeing Memo Gidley's crash at Daytona last weekend, I can't help but question the safety of the tube frame chassis, although my fears may be ungrounded.


Otherwise, they're both good categories, and isn't that what we all want?

*DISCLAIMER* I'm not trying to prove NASCAR better than the ACO with this post or vice-versa.


Hard to say. I front crash box certainly wouldn't hurt. The safety crew had to cut both the top and front tubes on the chassis and move both in order to get Memo out. That being said, IMSA impounded both the Red Dragon and the Risi Ferrari for further testing. If anyone knows a lot about tube frame chassis safety, it's NASCAR. They know what to do if anything is necessary. Also, the ACO certainly isn't the gold standard for safety.

http://hooniverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/IMG_1852-700x525.jpg

This is the Turner Z4 with a FIA spec roll cage. Had the Red Dragon T-Boned that car going as fast as he was, I don't think the driver of the Z4 would be with us being brutally honest.

@Justin agreed 100%

@Fuzzi0n why does it matter what the chassis is made of if the car is safe and the racing is good. There's more technology in a Chrysler minivan than in any LMP2 or DP

 

[Fuzzi0n]

Sorry, you can't compare Rockenfeller's and Gidley's crash, they are completely different scenarios.

This is pretty much what happened to Gidley...

Granted the Ferrari isn't a wall, but with the difference in speeds it might as well have been. It doesn't matter how safe you make the cars, that type of crash will always be the most dangerous as the energy doesn't get dissipated.

Whereas Rockenfeller was already rotating before he hit the armco, which makes it easier to dissipate energy.

True, but Rockenfeller got turned directly towards the wall. I do agree that the direction of travel would have lessened the impact somewhat, but he still hit the wall incredibly hard as you can see from any of the aftermath pictures. I'd still guarantee that the DP isn't as safe though, there's just no way it can be with how the cars are built. My worry isn't so much the strength of the car, more the fact that the DP folded in on itself, at no point should the cockpit have anything intrude, nor should it change dimensions. I suspect it shouldn't be a problem going forward, especially considering the cars will change soon enough, I believe that IMSA wanted to work with the ACO on some new regulations.

@cnd01

I don't have a problem with what the car is made of, rather the driver safety in accidents like that. The cars are quicker than before, what worries me is if someone had brake issue and had a similar impact with a wall. I'm not 100% in agreement that the racing is good, mainly due to the massive imbalance in the regulations at the moment. I'd rather see a load of P2 cars race each other, rather than some over BoP'd DP's and a bunch of nerfed P2 cars on worse tyres than they normally run. If they split the classes I'd also have less of a problem with it, but the current TUSCC prototype class doesn't work properly.

I agree that the ACO GT safety regulations could use a look at, I know that Corvette add a lot to their cars for side impact whereas a lot of the other teams don't. The prototype regulations are a lot better though, as you can see from the immense strength of the current cars.

 

[cnd01]

@cnd01

I don't have a problem with what the car is made of, rather the driver safety in accidents like that. The cars are quicker than before, what worries me is if someone had brake issue and had a similar impact with a wall. I'm not 100% in agreement that the racing is good, mainly due to the massive imbalance in the regulations at the moment. I'd rather see a load of P2 cars race each other, rather than some over BoP'd DP's and a bunch of nerfed P2 cars on worse tyres than they normally run. If they split the classes I'd also have less of a problem with it, but the current TUSCC prototype class doesn't work properly.

I agree that the ACO GT safety regulations could use a look at, I know that Corvette add a lot to their cars for side impact whereas a lot of the other teams don't. The prototype regulations are a lot better though, as you can see from the immense strength of the current cars.

Before this season, the only good prototype racing in America in the past 3 or 4 racing seasons was the DP imo. The number of LMP2 in America was only at 4 last season. I didn't like that they kept the LMP2 honestly. It would've put more cars on the grid (this is my personal opinion. Not claiming fact here) if IMSA had ditched the LMP2 and given ESM and L5 the option for a DP chassis/engine of their choice paid for by IMSA to not snub them out. That way, there wouldn't be nearly as much of a rabbit chase as to what the rules are because they're changing weekly still at this point. I would say the same thing if there were 14 LMP2 cars and 4 DP. That way, specs are eons easier to keep balanced. That's the major difference from what IMSA did that I would've done.

I honestly believe the DP is safer than any LMP(personal opinion) especially safer than the open cockpit versions. Look at Westy's car after it flipped roof first into the catch fence at 190. Westy was unhurt. Look at the long beach crash. Tracy Krohn was unhurt after flipping his DP at the Daytona test years back. If there's something DPs have done, that's crash and crash hard. If they weren't safe, I guarantee you Memo wouldn't have been the first person hurt by a DP.

 

[Organ-Donor]

In fact, most people there were really happy with the race. I'm sure fellow board members who were there can back me up that it was an awesome race and a lot of fun to be there.

x10, race was awesome 👍. I'm going to 12 hours of Sebring as well and I'm already counting down the days. I took some great vids and pics at Daytona but somehow got deleted, I'm trying to recover them.

 

[Fuzzi0n]

Before this season, the only good prototype racing in America in the past 3 or 4 racing seasons was the DP imo. The number of LMP2 in America was only at 4 last season. I didn't like that they kept the LMP2 honestly. It would've put more cars on the grid (this is my personal opinion. Not claiming fact here) if IMSA had ditched the LMP2 and given ESM and L5 the option for a DP chassis/engine of their choice paid for by IMSA to not snub them out. That way, there wouldn't be nearly as much of a rabbit chase as to what the rules are because they're changing weekly still at this point. I would say the same thing if there were 14 LMP2 cars and 4 DP. That way, specs are eons easier to keep balanced. That's the major difference from what IMSA did that I would've done.

I honestly believe the DP is safer than any LMP(personal opinion) especially safer than the open cockpit versions. Look at Westy's car after it flipped roof first into the catch fence at 190. Westy was unhurt. Look at the long beach crash. Tracy Krohn was unhurt after flipping his DP at the Daytona test years back. If there's something DPs have done, that's crash and crash hard. If they weren't safe, I guarantee you Memo wouldn't have been the first person hurt by a DP.

Last few seasons of Grand-Am have been really good, watched quite a lot of the races and thoroughly enjoyed them. I've also loved the last few seasons of the ALMS, especially for the GT battles. What annoyed me is that they combined the series in a way that didn't work. The GT categories (BoP excluded) seem to work well, and I have no real issues with how they handled that - would have preferred straight GT3 regulations in GTD, but I can understand why they didn't. I'd like to see the prototype class balanced, or better still, split into DP and P2 because currently it just doesn't work. I suspect you're right that one set of regulations would put more cars on the grid, some teams weren't sure what to enter and if one set of regulations would be favoured. The other problem is for US teams racing in the WEC is difficult, despite the fact that the P2 class over there is one of the places to be. Ideally teams could run both series, but it would cost a huge amount to do so.

I'd just like IMSA to have another look at the DP's, which I believe they are doing, as if they're going to be a headline class for a few years they need to be at the top of their game in every regard. And yes, the open cockpit cars perhaps aren't as safe, although I've seen some tremendous accidents with them and they've held up incredibly well, main issue being debris is able to hit the driver whereas the closed cars you don't have that issue. DP's are pretty safe in other accidents though, rollovers as you've mentioned aren't much of an issue - I'm hoping the BHH's will help stop them taking off like they did at the test day. They could use a look at the front crash structure, especially with regards to keeping stuff out of the pedal box.

 

[cnd01]

Last few seasons of Grand-Am have been really good, watched quite a lot of the races and thoroughly enjoyed them. I've also loved the last few seasons of the ALMS, especially for the GT battles. What annoyed me is that they combined the series in a way that didn't work. The GT categories (BoP excluded) seem to work well, and I have no real issues with how they handled that - would have preferred straight GT3 regulations in GTD, but I can understand why they didn't. I'd like to see the prototype class balanced, or better still, split into DP and P2 because currently it just doesn't work. I suspect you're right that one set of regulations would put more cars on the grid, some teams weren't sure what to enter and if one set of regulations would be favoured. The other problem is for US teams racing in the WEC is difficult, despite the fact that the P2 class over there is one of the places to be. Ideally teams could run both series, but it would cost a huge amount to do so.

I'd just like IMSA to have another look at the DP's, which I believe they are doing, as if they're going to be a headline class for a few years they need to be at the top of their game in every regard. And yes, the open cockpit cars perhaps aren't as safe, although I've seen some tremendous accidents with them and they've held up incredibly well, main issue being debris is able to hit the driver whereas the closed cars you don't have that issue. DP's are pretty safe in other accidents though, rollovers as you've mentioned aren't much of an issue - I'm hoping the BHH's will help stop them taking off like they did at the test day. They could use a look at the front crash structure, especially with regards to keeping stuff out of the pedal box.

100% agreement on the full GT3 idea, and yes a crash box is a good idea if it can be put into the chassis without major re-structuring. IMSA is reviewing the DP which I'm just fine with.

x10, race was awesome 👍. I'm going to 12 hours of Sebring as well and I'm already counting down the days. I took some great vids and pics at Daytona but somehow got deleted, I'm trying to recover them.

I'm a fan and I'd go back after that race every time. You would've thought they made mandatory cautions every 30 minutes, the main class was comprised of John Deere tractors, the France family's personal team won with J.C. France driving, and the new F1 noses mandatory on all cars with the irrational amounts of negativity that was spewed on this thread during my post race break from this thread. I wish I could do Sebring this year, and it's still a possibility. Petit Le Mans is a definite go this year too I'm stoked to be able to witness the first ever merger series race. It wasn't perfect, but IMSA far exceeded my expectations. I've posted 2 of my vids. I'll upload the other ones to YouTube tonight and get it on here. I've got loads of pics too. I was a kid in a candy store the entire time

 

[Mac K]

Good content and interviews, a bit long but worth the watch.

 

[joetruckv8]

When the top manufacturer LMP and GT cars in the world stopped going and it became a race of spec-Riley prototypes and mainly US teams.

Never seen these older chassis before, thankz! 👍

 

[Furinkazen]

When the top manufacturer LMP and GT cars in the world stopped going and it became a race of spec-Riley prototypes and mainly US teams.

I have that very Jaguar in a 1980's diecast...

 

[raven214]

I know this series is only 1 race old, but they really need to step it up for media/content/updates:

1. The "coming soon" Android version of the mobile app is still coming soon. Hello? The season has started guys... deadline = missed.
2. It's over a week later, and I have yet to see a replay of the CSCC race (that I can find). I'm still mad about the Fox Sports deal, but at least I could see most of the 24 hour race, specifically the start and a good dose leading through the finish. I don't have Fox Sports2 so I had no way to see CSCC, and I am still waiting for it to appear online or be re-run on Fox Sports1 (someone please post a link of the broadcast if you find it out there, or give a head's up if you see it on FS1!).
3. There are still no standings posted for USCC or CSCC. These should have been posted as unofficial results immediately (or within 24 hours at the latest), but there's still nothing from what I can find on the site.

In this day and age, up-to-date information and access is a must if this series is to catch on and thrive!

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

3. There are still no standings posted for USCC or CSCC. These should have been posted as unofficial results immediately (or within 24 hours at the latest), but there's still nothing from what I can find on the site.

That's nothing, I couldn't even find what the points system is on their website!

 

[MustangManiac]

They must be using the same guys who ran the ALMS site, they were notorious for taking forever to update it. You are right, they really need to do something about it. I would be willing to bet they could find a dedicated fan(s) to run a site for them and they would do a much better job of it.

 

[cnd01]

I know this series is only 1 race old, but they really need to step it up for media/content/updates:

1. The "coming soon" Android version of the mobile app is still coming soon. Hello? The season has started guys... deadline = missed.
2. It's over a week later, and I have yet to see a replay of the CSCC race (that I can find). I'm still mad about the Fox Sports deal, but at least I could see most of the 24 hour race, specifically the start and a good dose leading through the finish. I don't have Fox Sports2 so I had no way to see CSCC, and I am still waiting for it to appear online or be re-run on Fox Sports1 (someone please post a link of the broadcast if you find it out there, or give a head's up if you see it on FS1!).
3. There are still no standings posted for USCC or CSCC. These should have been posted as unofficial results immediately (or within 24 hours at the latest), but there's still nothing from what I can find on the site.

In this day and age, up-to-date information and access is a must if this series is to catch on and thrive!

Grand-am's website had the point standings and videos of the races uploaded first thing Monday morning every Monday after the race.

Their entry lists weren't pdf either and updated often times daily as teams submitted the forms and the checks cleared. Now it's a complete mystery as to who's racing until the week of. Just something I preferred that grand am did over how the alms did on the websites

 

[01GTP]

The IMSA site posted a link to the Tudor YouTube page. Tudor has only uploaded 4 video's at about 2.5 hours each though.

It's too bad there is no coverage of the night action.

I know this series is only 1 race old, but they really need to step it up for media/content/updates:

See above!

Yeah, somethings got to happen.
A schedule would be great.

It's like Soony is running the show, if you know what I mean.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Hey guys, quick question, why are GT-D cars modified (IE gimped) from the originally GT3 spec?

Is it to make them slower than the GT-LM cars? Isn't the added modification to GT-D spec just making them more expensive than a straight up GT3 car? I'm asking this because Audi bellyached about this.

 

[cnd01]

Hey guys, quick question, why are GT-D cars modified (IE gimped) from the originally GT3 spec?

Is it to make them slower than the GT-LM cars? Isn't the added modification to GT-D spec just making them more expensive than a straight up GT3 car? I'm asking this because Audi bellyached about this.

Porsche made the 911 GT America, and so that's kinda the base spec with everything balanced around that. I believe (not 100%) that full GT3 is faster than GTE, and factories don't like it when a class that's pro am beats their cars. Yes it makes them more expensive and slower than full gt3, but that beloved Le Mans link has to be preserved at all costs............

 

[sumbrownkid]

Well good thing the ACO and the FIA are finally getting around to making a single GT car from which Le Mans and GT3 spec cars can be derived from.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Porsche made the 911 GT America, and so that's kinda the base spec with everything balanced around that. I believe (not 100%) that full GT3 is faster than GTE, and factories don't like it when a class that's pro am beats their cars. Yes it makes them more expensive and slower than full gt3, but that beloved Le Mans link has to be preserved at all costs............

Actually the times around tracks are the same they are pretty much equal, and realistically GTE cars are GT3 cars just with a wider body aero and bigger wing. There isn't much difference between them

 

[Müle]

Hey guys, quick question, why are GT-D cars modified (IE gimped) from the originally GT3 spec?

Is it to make them slower than the GT-LM cars? Isn't the added modification to GT-D spec just making them more expensive than a straight up GT3 car? I'm asking this because Audi bellyached about this.

Grand-am GT used to consist of tube-framed Mazda RX-8's and GM bodied cars (Pontiac GXP, then the Camaro) as well as Porsche Cup cars and various other privateer cars built to the specifications (Marsh's Corvette, Turner's M3, a Viper Competition Coupe at one point, etc.). Then I think Audi and Ferrari wanted in, but instead of wasting money building a bespoke car for the specs, they wanted to take their GT3 cars and detune them, and Grand-Am let them. Eventually the only tube-frame car left was Stevenson's Camaro, but by then, the merger was announced and I guess from the start they figured they would leave Grand-Am GT alone because the car count was always high.

Stevenson's glorious dinosaur (that was still winning races) left to focus on the Conti series, Marsh went to Prototype, Porsche built their own bespoke car (the GT America) and everyone else is now running detuned GT3 cars originally meant to be slowed to the level of the tube-framed cars, now meant to not be as fast as GTLM.

I have no clue about the costs involved. I'm pretty sure Audi was whining because they wanted their diffuser back (which they got).

 

[Furinkazen]

Grand-am GT used to consist of tube-framed Mazda RX-8's and GM bodied cars (Pontiac GXP, then the Camaro) as well as Porsche Cup cars and various other privateer cars built to the specifications (Marsh's Corvette, Turner's M3, a Viper Competition Coupe at one point, etc.). Then I think Audi and Ferrari wanted in, but instead of wasting money building a bespoke car for the specs, they wanted to take their GT3 cars and detune them, and Grand-Am let them. Eventually the only tube-frame car left was Stevenson's Camaro, but by then, the merger was announced and I guess from the start they figured they would leave Grand-Am GT alone because the car count was always high.

Stevenson's glorious dinosaur (that was still winning races) left to focus on the Conti series, Marsh went to Prototype, Porsche built their own bespoke car (the GT America) and everyone else is now running detuned GT3 cars originally meant to be slowed to the level of the tube-framed cars, now meant to not be as fast as GTLM.

I have no clue about the costs involved. I'm pretty sure Audi was whining because they wanted their diffuser back (which they got).

Do the Pirelli World Challenge cars (the Cadillac CTSV swings into mind) also have any relevance here spec wise?

 

[cnd01]

Do the Pirelli World Challenge cars (the Cadillac CTSV swings into mind) also have any relevance here spec wise?

They're not homologated, so they're given better specs because of manufacturer money. Same thing with Volvo. If those cars were GT3 homologated, they wouldn't dominate

 

[01GTP]

Last year the Mercedes SLS and Audi R8's were FIA GT3 spec cars.

In 2014 fully homologated FIA GT3 spec cars are allowed.

A few pics for the last paragraph from the article.
From Lime Rock last year.

 

[cnd01]

So Sebring is in a little over a month. I'm super ready to see TUSC back in action. Conti is heading back there for the first time in over a decade. It'll be awesome getting to see the DP at Sebring much like it was great to see the LMP2 at Daytona. The BoP will be interesting here at Sebring with the LMP2 guys having home turf here against the DP. The DP guys have had a lot more testing data points than the LMP2 in this offseason at Sebring, but can that beat 10 years of notes built up by these teams?

Both GT classes will be wars as expected

 

[Jav]

Oh I can't wait to be at Sebring for the green flag and feel the whole place move when all those awesome beasts open up the throttle for the first time on the race!

 

[cnd01]

Oh I can't wait to be at Sebring for the green flag and feel the whole place move when all those awesome beasts open up the throttle for the first time on the race!

I wonder how much of the Ferrari v. Audi rivalry we'll see. What better place to settle a 24 hour dispute by a 12 hour battle at America's oldest endurance race

 

[raven214]

IIRC Audi didn't have an entry in GTLM. I wonder why not, and if they plan to join the class later on?

 

[Tired Tyres]

Because they don't do a GTE Audi. That's what GTLM is in this series. The R8 is GT3 only.

 

[spooble]

IIRC Audi didn't have an entry in GTLM. I wonder why not, and if they plan to join the class later on?

I don't believe there are any Audis that are up to GTLM/GTE specs are there?

 

[cnd01]

IIRC Audi didn't have an entry in GTLM. I wonder why not, and if they plan to join the class later on?

They haven't built a car for GTE/GTLM. I don't blame them. Build a customer car and make some $$$ back in sales and spares.

 

[IforceV8]

HPD powered DP to be ready for Sebring http://sportscar365.com/imsa/tusc/honda-dp-engine-set-for-sebring-debut/

Ginetta G55 maybe coming to GTD and notice the Nissan GT-R program mention http://www.dailysportscar.com/?p=22395

Bop changes for Sebring http://sportscar365.com/imsa/tusc/bop-changes-expected-for-sebring/