2014 United Sports Car Championship

[RACECAR]

MM should have known this could be an issue going in. We've seen Signatech have the same problems with the car in prior races. In order for MMPR to race in 2014 no matter what series here or overseas, they had to get a new car. They could have gone with a safe route and gotten the HPD. Then, they could have collaborated with ESM and shared data while working on a car that's very similar to the one they had been using.

Except how many teams are using the HPD on both sides of the atlantic? Honda hasn't been putting anywhere near the amount of support behind the LMP2 teams as Nissan is.

It's a self inflicted problem in my books

So its their fault for going with a chassis/engine package that's much more successful as of late AND not receiving chassis until five weeks until Daytona? Your logic escapes me.

 

[cnd01]

Except how many teams are using the HPD on both sides of the atlantic? Honda hasn't been putting anywhere near the amount of support behind the LMP2 teams as Nissan is.




So its their fault for going with a chassis/engine package that's much more successful as of late AND not receiving chassis until five weeks until Daytona? Your logic escapes me.

It's not like this chassis is the first Oreca LMP2 chassis built, and this isn't the first Oreca LMP2 chassis to have power steering issues. The Nissan engine is definitely strong, and I understand why they went with that combo because of its success overseas. Had it been me, I would've went the safe route and gotten the HPD. That way, MMPR would have another team with the same car to get more data points from. Not to mention that's almost the same car that the team has been working on for the past few years. This goes without saying that Pickett could have swapped to a DP chassis too.

 

[RACECAR]

It's not like this chassis is the first Oreca LMP2 chassis built, and this isn't the first Oreca LMP2 chassis to have power steering issues.

That's not even what I'm getting at. You are somehow saying its their fault that they only got the car 5 weeks prior to the 24, which we all know is not enough time to work out issues like that.

 

[cnd01]

That's not even what I'm getting at. You are somehow saying its their fault that they only got the car 5 weeks prior to the 24, which we all know is not enough time to work out issues like that.

They hadn't planned on competing in IMSA until just a few weeks before that at most. Remember Pickett looking into IndyCar and grumbling about how much he wouldn't like competing against DPs. They made the last second decision to race IMSA which put them even further behind making it where they only could get the car 5 weeks in advance. That's where I'm coming from. Obviously 5 weeks is barely enough time to learn a car and definitely not enough time to fix gremlins

 

[jjaisli]

So now it's Pickett's fault that the governing body couldn't come up with a clearly defined rules package until the 11th hour? Muscle Milk had always planned to compete in the united series. But when things dragged on and on they began to have second thoughts and there just wasn't a lot of time. The same thing happened to Dyson.

Keep in mind, Pickett had a relationship with HPD that went back several years. And while they were forced to change their car from the ARX-03a which they had been running, I'm sure the switch to a different chassis wasn't taken lightly.

I don't know cnd01, somehow I can't help but think you'd be willing to cut them a lot more slack if they had shown up with a DP.

 

[cnd01]

So now it's Pickett's fault that the governing body couldn't come up with a clearly defined rules package until the 11th hour? Muscle Milk had always planned to compete in the united series. But when things dragged on and on they began to have second thoughts and there just wasn't a lot of time. The same thing happened to Dyson.

Keep in mind, Pickett had a relationship with HPD that went back several years. And while they were forced to change their car from the ARX-03a which they had been running, I'm sure the switch to a different chassis wasn't taken lightly.

I don't know cnd01, somehow I can't help but think you'd be willing to cut them a lot more slack if they had shown up with a DP.

It's IMSA's fault, but it isn't at the same time.

I'm not saying it's MM's fault for not having the rules, but the fact that every other team was on the same 11th hour schedule. They weren't alone in getting the shaft at all. Every other prototype team except the DW was given barely any time to prepare.

I'm saying it is MMPR's fault for picking a chassis that has a track record of being unreliable. Last year is all the proof I need. Brendan Hartley in the Murphy Prototypes Oreca was extremely fast until it broke. Same thing with Signatech. If the chassis has that track record, is it not expected that similar problems will occur for a team that's only had the same chassis for 5 weeks prior to a 24 hour race? Same thing for a 12 hour race only a month and a half later too. Not to mention they were still flirting with IndyCar while all the offseason testing was going on.

MMPR wouldn't be having nearly as many issues with a DP. Pickett already knows a little about them considering he raced them before. Plus, there would have been many other teams he could have shared data with. Heck, he could have partnered with Starworks and HPD to get the Honda DP engine ready quicker.

Had he actually shown up with a DP, all of you guys would've cut your wrists and cried NASCAR

 

[IforceV8]

It would have been interesting for MM to run HPD's or a DP and have Nissan GT Academy drivers.

DP's cost more money than a P2 chassis to start with before the added aero,and then where do you go for a engine? The ECR program is full,Roush/Yates is tightly controlled so now the options are the unfunded Dinan or a Honda minivan engine with turbos strapped to it.The Nissan package is part of a bigger deal that hopefully will be around later this season so the Oreca/Nissan package made sense.

Looking at the trap speeds from Sebring the Oreca/Nissan was the slowest,9-10 mph slower than the top DP and 5-6 mph behind the Morgan.High downforce setup,too much drag,or too much restrictor,it could be any or all of these things that Pickett is referring to about the BoP.

 

[jjaisli]

It's IMSA's fault, but it isn't at the same time.

I'm not saying it's MM's fault for not having the rules, but the fact that every other team was on the same 11th hour schedule.

I'm sorry but you're a bit off base here. Pickett Racing HAD to change their car. In fact, they're the only team in Prototype class that had to make such a change. Everybody else needed only only adjustments, big or small. Yes, they could have committed earlier, but I think Greg was assessing all his options and he just wasn't expecting things to drag on as long as they did. And the fact that he didn't simply go with another HPD chassis probably means Pickett knew something we didn't. And either way, I don't think it's reasonable to expect 1st year teething problems to creep up in the Oreca package at this stage. I'm sure Greg is more disappointed than anybody.

In a perfect world (looking through Greg Pickett's eyes), he'd not only be running and leading in the USCC, but he'd be heading to Le Mans in June. (Although to be fair, he really wants to compete in P1 and without a works team, it's not realistic) But the fact that he isn't going to Le Mans, period, means that the team knows it's not currently up to competing against the top competition from around the world, never mind the fact that he's floundering within the Tudor Prototype ranks.

Had he actually shown up with a DP, all of you guys would've cut your wrists and cried NASCAR

To be blunt, for any team that has aspirations of competing on a world stage and not just a national series, that was never going to happen. Things will likely change in 2016/2017 but for now, a DP is limited to Tudor and it's a dead end road. As it is, any P2 team running in the USCC that had hoped to go to Le Mans, will be at a complete disadvantage come June because of the spec tire situation and the lack of Michelin running during the season. But that's a whole other issue.

DP's cost more money than a P2 chassis to start with before the added aero,and then where do you go for a engine? The ECR program is full,Roush/Yates is tightly controlled so now the options are the unfunded Dinan or a Honda minivan engine with turbos strapped to it.The Nissan package is part of a bigger deal that hopefully will be around later this season so the Oreca/Nissan package made sense.

Looking at the trap speeds from Sebring the Oreca/Nissan was the slowest,9-10 mph slower than the top DP and 5-6 mph behind the Morgan.High downforce setup,too much drag,or too much restrictor,it could be any or all of these things that Pickett is referring to about the BoP.

Bingo

 

[cnd01]

It would have been interesting for MM to run HPD's or a DP and have Nissan GT Academy drivers.

DP's cost more money than a P2 chassis to start with before the added aero,and then where do you go for a engine? The ECR program is full,Roush/Yates is tightly controlled so now the options are the unfunded Dinan or a Honda minivan engine with turbos strapped to it.The Nissan package is part of a bigger deal that hopefully will be around later this season so the Oreca/Nissan package made sense.

Looking at the trap speeds from Sebring the Oreca/Nissan was the slowest,9-10 mph slower than the top DP and 5-6 mph behind the Morgan.High downforce setup,too much drag,or too much restrictor,it could be any or all of these things that Pickett is referring to about the BoP.

There's plenty of room in the ECR engine stable. Just last season there were 7 DP on the ECR program compared to 5 this year. Not to mention Honda is really stepping up involvement in the DP engine program with Starworks. I know Pickett with his close relationship to HPD had to know about HPD/Honda coming into the DP engine market.

I'm sorry but you're a bit off base here. Pickett Racing HAD to change their car. In fact, they're the only team in Prototype class that had to make such a change. Everybody else needed only only adjustments, big or small. Yes, they could have committed earlier, but I think Greg was assessing all his options and he just wasn't expecting things to drag on as long as they did. And the fact that he didn't simply go with another HPD chassis probably means Pickett knew something we didn't. And either way, I don't think it's reasonable to expect 1st year teething problems to creep up in the Oreca package at this stage. I'm sure Greg is more disappointed than anybody.

In a perfect world (looking through Greg Pickett's eyes), he'd not only be running and leading in the USCC, but he'd be heading to Le Mans in June. (Although to be fair, he really wants to compete in P1 and without a works team, it's not realistic) But the fact that he isn't going to Le Mans, period, means that the team knows it's not currently up to competing against the top competition from around the world, never mind the fact that he's floundering within the Tudor Prototype ranks.



To be blunt, for any team that has aspirations of competing on a world stage and not just a national series, that was never going to happen. Things will likely change in 2016/2017 but for now, a DP is limited to Tudor and it's a dead end road. As it is, any P2 team running in the USCC that had hoped to go to Le Mans, will be at a complete disadvantage come June because of the spec tire situation and the lack of Michelin running during the season. But that's a whole other issue.




Bingo

You're off base in that no matter what series around the world Pickett would have been racing, he would have had to buy a new car. Whether he went WEC LMP1, TUSC P, or anywhere else, he had to buy a new car. Pickett was testing the waters which I don't blame him for. He thought wrong, and he has to pay the price. If Pickett leaves then IMSA gives him what he wants, it'll show other teams that pulling the "I'm not winning so I'm leaving until I get a better BoP" card works. That's not what the series needs. Had Wayne Taylor Racing done the same thing, I would be saying the same thing about him or any other team for that matter.

 

[IforceV8]

Muscle Milk/Nissan/GT Academy driver exchange program,any of this ringing a bell with you? How does HPD fit into that group? Also the king of whine Wayne Taylor ,wasnt there a BoP change last year 1 day before Daytona helping the Chevy because he had a fit?

 

[cnd01]

Muscle Milk/Nissan/GT Academy driver exchange program,any of this ringing a bell with you? How does HPD fit into that group? Also the king of whine Wayne Taylor ,wasnt there a BoP change last year 1 day before Daytona helping the Chevy because he had a fit?

Oh it does, but as of roughly 2 months before the season, Pickett still didn't know what to do. They would say on Twitter that an announcement would be made then a week would go by with nothing. Finally and the 11th hour and 30 minutes he announces that. What went on behind closed doors, we'll never know, but it wasn't like he announced his driver lineup months before he got his car. It was a last minute deal, and the team is behind the 8-ball. Gotta catch up somehow. Blaming IMSA for that is unwarranted given the entire circumstances. If IMSA gave every team a break who started late, they'd be giving everyone except the DW a break

As far as Taylor, yes he is probably the most vocal about his problems which gets old really fast; however, it made no difference in the race because the BMW engine in 2013 at Daytona was so overpowered that I knew who was going to win after 3 laps. Watching AJ Allmendinger take a half second off the field in the infield then lose it all back in the oval while the Ford was in the draft of a BMW. The Chevy guys didn't show up until later on in the race after AJ's mistake, Dane Cameron got out of the Sahlen's car, and John Bennett got into the 6 car.

 

[jjaisli]

I'm not saying it's MM's fault for not having the rules, but the fact that every other team was on the same 11th hour schedule. They weren't alone in getting the shaft at all. Every other prototype team except the DW was given barely any time to prepare.

I'm sorry but you're a bit off base here. Pickett Racing HAD to change their car. In fact, they're the only team in Prototype class that had to make such a change. Everybody else needed only only adjustments, big or small.

You're off base in that no matter what series around the world Pickett would have been racing, he would have had to buy a new car. Whether he went WEC LMP1, TUSC P, or anywhere else, he had to buy a new car.

Do you not follow the point I'm trying to make? Picket Racing was the only team in Prototype from BOTH series that was forced to change their car. It doesn't matter that they would have had to buy a new car if they joined a different series. We're talking about the USCC. And in that context they were at a disadvantage compared to the other Prototype teams who were already familiar with their cars and had a lot of data to go on.

There were a lot of strong rumors preseason that Pickett was going to GTLM and would also run a car in PC. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that both of those rumors were true and for whatever the deal or deals fell apart, making the situation even worse.

It remains to be seen if it was the wrong decision. But it doesn't seem like it was Pickett's first choice. Or even their second.

 

[cnd01]

Do you not follow the point I'm trying to make? Picket Racing was the only team in Prototype from BOTH series that was forced to change their car. It doesn't matter that they would have had to buy a new car if they joined a different series. We're talking about the USCC. And in that context they were at a disadvantage compared to the other Prototype teams who were already familiar with their cars and had a lot of data to go on.

There were a lot of strong rumors preseason that Pickett was going to GTLM and would also run a car in PC. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that both of those rumors were true and for whatever the deal or deals fell apart, making the situation even worse.

It remains to be seen if it was the wrong decision. But it doesn't seem like it was Pickett's first choice. Or even their second.

I totally follow what you're saying, but it doesn't matter what move Pickett made for this season for him to be in the situation he's in. Had his GTLM stuff worked out, he would've had no data on that. Had he went DP, no data. PC, no data etc. Knowing that, if I were Greg Pickett, I would have gone a route where I could get up to speed as quickly as possible knowing that I'm way late on preparation especially since the decision was to go P. That class is getting a complete face lift in 3 years, so it's not really hurting too much in the long run as it's only a 3 year investment.

I do have more sympathy for Pickett than L5 though. That's a whole different argument though

 

[Furinkazen]

IMSA screwed a lot of people by not finalising regs until last minute.

 

[raven214]

IMSA screwed a lot of people by not finalising regs until last minute.

Especially considering how long they had to come up with things. The merger was announced in what, the end of the 2012 season?

 

[jjaisli]

I totally follow what you're saying, but it doesn't matter what move Pickett made for this season for him to be in the situation he's in. Had his GTLM stuff worked out, he would've had no data on that. Had he went DP, no data. PC, no data etc.

Exactly. So you know, cut the team a little slack. OK? They may have romped through the championship last year (a cake walk after Rebellion pulled out and considering the problems Dyson suffered) but things haven't exactly gone their way since.

I do have more sympathy for Pickett than L5 though. That's a whole different argument though

That's a tough one. I actually have a LOT of sympathy for L5, in so far as the drivers & pitcrew go. They were a first rate operation and their departure will be sorely missed. The guy running it on the other hand...he should be in a permanent 'roll' cage.

 

[cnd01]

Especially considering how long they had to come up with things. The merger was announced in what, the end of the 2012 season?

It's been over 18 months since the merger, and they're still unorganized...

Exactly. So you know, cut the team a little slack. OK? They may have romped through the championship last year (a cake walk after Rebellion pulled out and considering the problems Dyson suffered) but things haven't exactly gone their way since.



That's a tough one. I actually have a LOT of sympathy for L5, in so far as the drivers & pitcrew go. They were a first rate operation and their departure will be sorely missed. The guy running it on the other hand...he should be in a permanent 'roll' cage.

With L5, they were a top notch team, so they charge top notch prices. Notice the same guy who was renting went to another team, AIM, right after. When IMSA wouldn't give them special treatment regarding paddock space, ST pitched a fit and left. Now the feds are on him for his business practices. Justice being served in my books

 

[MrWednesday]

http://racer.com/imsa/item/102416-imsa-announces-modifications-to-competition-procedures

 

[IforceV8]

• Enforcement of an IMSA rule requiring the display of the car's number on its in-car cameras.(Maybe hooked on phonics would help too since the Alex Job car had the name clearly in the cameras view)
• Upgraded video review equipment to high definition (HD). A new system for cross-checking cars and drivers involved in on-track incidents. (hooray no more VHS)
• Addition of a third driver advisor to work alongside the IMSA Race Director and two driver advisors to assist with evaluating responsibility in incidents and other on-track situations. (just whats needed more blind mice)

• At events where there is only one prototype class in a race, the pits will be opened for that class when the field is packed up and while GT cars are still performing the Pass-Around procedure. This change will expedite the full-course caution process by a full lap. (ok)
• The "Lap-Down Wave-By" procedure – which provides a strategic opportunity for cars a lap or more behind to gain a lap back by staying on course while leaders make pit stops – will be more limited in its application. There will be no Lap-Down Wave-By in races less than two hours and 30 minutes in length. For races between two-and-a-half hours through six hours, the Lap-Down Wave-By will be used only once in any 90-minute period after 60 minutes from the start of a race.
• 
  
• No Lap-Down Wave-By will be used in the last 30 minutes of a race. Efforts also will be made to use "Debris Yellows" where a situation is likely to involve the simple removal of debris or the flat-tow of a stopped car to a safe location. A Debris Yellow includes the Pass-Around procedure, but the pits remain closed until the race is restarted. (waste of time with wave arounds,just freeze the field,clear the mess and get back to it)

 

[cnd01]

More red tape, more procedure, more crap for teams to remember.

IMSA get it together already

 

[Wilbur]

As much as I like lap down wave around things to help teams who had a mistake get back.....just do away with it. Over most races....they can make it up on their own. It's too hard to manage that for a series of this size period!

 

[raven214]

• At events where there is only one prototype class in a race, the pits will be opened for that class when the field is packed up and while GT cars are still performing the Pass-Around procedure. This change will expedite the full-course caution process by a full lap. (ok)

One less yellow lap is a good thing. I'd much rather just do away with PC altogether but whatever. I can dream.

• The "Lap-Down Wave-By" procedure – which provides a strategic opportunity for cars a lap or more behind to gain a lap back by staying on course while leaders make pit stops – will be more limited in its application. There will be no Lap-Down Wave-By in races less than two hours and 30 minutes in length. For races between two-and-a-half hours through six hours, the Lap-Down Wave-By will be used only once in any 90-minute period after 60 minutes from the start of a race.

Say what? Umm, ok no wave around for sprint races that's good. I got lost after that.

• No Lap-Down Wave-By will be used in the last 30 minutes of a race. Efforts also will be made to use "Debris Yellows" where a situation is likely to involve the simple removal of debris or the flat-tow of a stopped car to a safe location. A Debris Yellow includes the Pass-Around procedure, but the pits remain closed until the race is restarted. (waste of time with wave arounds,just freeze the field,clear the mess and get back to it)

I love the sound of debris yellows - a quick yellow with the pits closed to clear up whatever's needed and then get back to it! They should be used as much as possible in place of full course yellows. Why not combine it with the point above: no wave around for debris yellows period? Wave arounds should only be done for extended yellows (like when the Viper went full BBQ). This gets rid of all that 90 minutes after 60 minutes crap. You can apply it to sprint races as well to keep it consistent. That makes it easy for the teams. The simple call of a debris yellow or full course caution tells them exactly what to do.

 

[Earth]

Yep the big problem is the frequency of cautions. Wave around is a necessary evil if your going to have a caution every 90 minutes or less. Theres no way somebody can race their way back to the lead lap with pure speed with cautions that frequent.

1 lap less caution periods is an improvement but not enough. Sebring had 5 hours of cautions. If cautions are 1 lap less then you're still looking at over 4 hours of cautions.

The amount of cautions per race needs to be cut in half, at least. Only way to do that is local yellows. A car stalled 100 yards away from the racing surface shouldnt require a 25 minute caution.

 

[raven214]

Yep the big problem is the frequency of cautions. Wave around is a necessary evil if your going to have a caution every 90 minutes or less. Theres no way somebody can race their way back to the lead lap with pure speed with cautions that frequent.

1 lap less caution periods is an improvement but not enough. Sebring had 5 hours of cautions. If cautions are 1 lap less then you're still looking at over 4 hours of cautions.

The amount of cautions per race needs to be cut in half, at least. Only way to do that is local yellows. A car stalled 100 yards away from the racing surface shouldnt require a 25 minute caution.

The debris caution is a step in the right direction. That's my big takeaway. If done correctly, freezing the field with pits closed will help cut down the time under yellow - local yellows would be even better of course.

 

[Jav]

Get rid of the stupid wave arounds already, problem solved!

 

[cnd01]

Get rid of the stupid wave arounds already, problem solved!

That causes more PC class massacre which leads to more yellows.

I'm for the grand am system of lining the restarts up by class. That would sort the field very easily. For the short cautions, don't even open the pits and get all the prototypes in front and don't worry about running order as long as the leader in class is the first car of that class, and you're back racing in 2 laps. For longer cautions, open the pits for prototypes then gt cars. Whoever didn't pit who's a lap down waves around then the classes get lined up by class and there's a 4 lap yellow assuming the track can be cleared in that amount of time

 

[joetruckv8]

Hmmm, I'm going to had down to the Cheese Cake Factory across the way from the race and watch the (Tudor race at least) for free since I'm a local. I'm against F1 racing at Long Beach instead of the Tudor/Izod cars. This track is to small for F1 cars; we can build a different street track for F1 in L.A if they want to come California,.

 

[Jav]

That causes more PC class massacre which leads to more yellows.

Get rid of PC as well!! :-p
But seiously, They should get rid of them, 2 classes should be the maximum. I know it doesn't make any sense to get rid of any of the GT classes but in a couple of years with the GT+/GT formula GT-D and GT-LM should be merged.

 

[cnd01]

Get rid of PC as well!! :-p
But seiously, They should get rid of them, 2 classes should be the maximum. I know it doesn't make any sense to get rid of any of the GT classes but in a couple of years with the GT+/GT formula GT-D and GT-LM should be merged.

How about GT3 spec privateer teams only. Don't change to GT/GT+. The amount of cars already out there at GT3 spec would be plenty. We'd get more teams from overseas as they can run their GT3 cars as is rather than buy a new car to race in Europe and other parts of the world. Then release BoP for new cars build and sold by manufacturers here in America for IMSA GT spec. Let the manufacturer teams go play in the WEC where I think they belong

 

[Jav]

How about GT3 spec privateer teams only. Don't change to GT/GT+. The amount of cars already out there at GT3 spec would be plenty. We'd get more teams from overseas as they can run their GT3 cars as is rather than buy a new car to race in Europe and other parts of the world. Then release BoP for new cars build and sold by manufacturers here in America for IMSA GT spec. Let the manufacturer teams go play in the WEC where I think they belong

That would be nice, but GT3 will cease to exist as we know it when GT+/GT get's introduced... The current GT-3/GT-LM platforms will carry on into the new GT formula with the pertinent modifications. The whole point of the new GT formula is to merge GT-LM and GT-3 into one common class to keep costs down. GT+ will be a pure Global class for the latest and greatest allowed tech, while GT will be the GT-Am class with basically a frozen spec with none or minimal updates during the season.