2014 United Sports Car Championship

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Where this forum is of great benefit is you don't need to worry about news team/manufacturer news not being on the official websites. Whether it is or not does not matter. It always finds itself on here through someone who has his or her ear fully tuned in.

Regarding the Viper issue. Another take. Porsche. I have to give you Americans credit. When you love something you really seem to be into it big style. Porsche in North America just appears from this Brit's point of view to be a huge area of the car market. Porsche sells, looking for all the world, to sell really well. Could it also be that theirs an inclination to now in your country buy European marques? I watched a programme a while ago where a club of Porsche owners came together for a meet and there was literally thousands of 911's, 997's, 959's and other classic and more modern models. I do think that perhaps traditional US manufacturers like Viper are struggling now. Am I close to being correct?
 
Diehardracer
Where this forum is of great benefit is you don't need to worry about news team/manufacturer news not being on the official websites. Whether it is or not does not matter. It always finds itself on here through someone who has his or her ear fully tuned in.

Regarding the Viper issue. Another take. Porsche. I have to give you Americans credit. When you love something you really seem to be into it big style. Porsche in North America just appears from this Brit's point of view to be a huge area of the car market. Porsche sells, looking for all the world, to sell really well. Could it also be that theirs an inclination to now in your country buy European marques? I watched a programme a while ago where a club of Porsche owners came together for a meet and there was literally thousands of 911's, 997's, 959's and other classic and more modern models. I do think that perhaps traditional US manufacturers like Viper are struggling now. Am I close to being correct?
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Not exact numbers here, but roughly as many Porsches are sold in America as Corvettes sold in America each year. There's a huge Porsche Club of America presence as well as plenty of dealerships surprisingly. Volkswagen Auto Group has done a great job keeping Porsche marketed and represented in America. I see just as many Porsche commercials as I do for any other auto commercials as long as it's not the local dealership commercials. The Viper sales or lack thereof mainly are due to the confusing SRT branding with zero marketing. Porsche and Corvette are heavily marketed in America whereas the new Viper barely has any marketing done for it. Unless you follow car magazines or watch IMSA on tv, good luck finding a Viper ad. I wonder how many people actually know the Viper is still being made. On top of all this, the Viper is priced much higher than what it's main competition, the Corvette. The Viper is roughly $100,000 whereas the Corvette equivalent is $50,000 or $60,000. It's a combination of all of these that equate to the lack of sales.
 
Diehardracer
Porsche. I have to give you Americans credit.
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I don't know the inclination of the rest of the country as I buy what I have to, not what I want, due mostly to income.
Basically, I buy vehicles that I need for work. My wife drives an Audi, my daughter an Acura, my neighbor has a VW and a Subaru.
Basically around here the Ford's, Chevy's and Dodge's are all pickup trucks for construction or farming.

I think you may find this interesting. It is the track schedule for Lime Rock which is loaded with dates for Porsche clubs.
Others too, but Porsche has the most by far, except the Lime Rock Drivers Club.
So there must be a lot of Porsche's around. They drive/trailer them to the track and a lot of the time I can tell when they are in town just due to the added amount of them I see around.
Plus the numbers on them help too.

Being able to just pick a marquee and go to the track to see them is always a good time.
Plus it's free!
 
It's interesting that there are active, by-marque clubs for both Porsche (PCA) and BMW (BMWCCA), and I can't really think of any others. Considering that there are a number of other marques with eminently track-worthy cars that don't have the same kind of support, I suspect it says more about what the owners want to do with their cars (or perceived lack of support through outlets like NASA and the SCCA) than it does about relative sales.
 
MrWednesday
It's interesting that there are active, by-marque clubs for both Porsche (PCA) and BMW (BMWCCA), and I can't really think of any others. Considering that there are a number of other marques with eminently track-worthy cars that don't have the same kind of support, I suspect it says more about what the owners want to do with their cars (or perceived lack of support through outlets like NASA and the SCCA) than it does about relative sales.
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Check out JCNA, Jaguar Clubs of North America.
 
cnd01
Not exact numbers here, but roughly as many Porsches are sold in America as Corvettes sold in America each year. There's a huge Porsche Club of America presence as well as plenty of dealerships surprisingly. Volkswagen Auto Group has done a great job keeping Porsche marketed and represented in America. I see just as many Porsche commercials as I do for any other auto commercials as long as it's not the local dealership commercials. The Viper sales or lack thereof mainly are due to the confusing SRT branding with zero marketing. Porsche and Corvette are heavily marketed in America whereas the new Viper barely has any marketing done for it. Unless you follow car magazines or watch IMSA on tv, good luck finding a Viper ad. I wonder how many people actually know the Viper is still being made. On top of all this, the Viper is priced much higher than what it's main competition, the Corvette. The Viper is roughly $100,000 whereas the Corvette equivalent is $50,000 or $60,000. It's a combination of all of these that equate to the lack of sales.
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I already explained to you why your last line is a fallacy and yet you stick with it...

Also as for Dodge broadcasting the viper they'll probably do this in the next FF movie as they have been for a long time now with Chrysler products.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
I already explained to you why your last line is a fallacy and yet you stick with it...

Also as for Dodge broadcasting the viper they'll probably do this in the next FF movie as they have been for a long time now with Chrysler products.
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While you're technically correct, try using that as a sales pitch to sell cars...

Back to IMSA stuff, the outlook for GT classes looks different now with no more GT/GT+ stuff. Anyone car to speculate as to what's happening? My personal opinion is that GT3 is too popular with the manufacturers getting ROI from updates and spares to change even though from what I gathered, GT was pretty much going to be like GT3. I don't think the future of GTE/LM will be too different than it is now. Hopefully, GTD will remain as strong as it is because it's my favorite class in the series
 
cnd01
While you're technically correct, try using that as a sales pitch to sell cars...
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There is no technically correct about it. The crowd that is out to buy a Viper isn't the same crowd that is going out and buying a base model Vette. One is an average sports car and the other is an actual Super Car. They're not even in the same category. So much so (to tie it back to this thread) that Corvette Racing has always modeled the cream of the crop Vette as the car to be raced. The C5R was the Z06, the C6R was the Z06 first and then modeled on the ZR1 and thus is the same with the C7.R being the Z06 and not the stingray. That is who they are selling to the guys that can afford the Z06 C7 or any of other top tier cars with a GTLM/GTE counter part.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
There is no technically correct about it. The crowd that is out to buy a Viper isn't the same crowd that is going out and buying a base model Vette. One is an average sports car and the other is an actual Super Car. They're not even in the same category. So much so (to tie it back to this thread) that Corvette Racing has always modeled the cream of the crop Vette as the car to be raced. The C5R was the Z06, the C6R was the Z06 first and then modeled on the ZR1 and thus is the same with the C7.R being the Z06 and not the stingray. That is who they are selling to the guys that can afford the Z06 C7 or any of other top tier cars with a GTLM/GTE counter part.
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But how many people actually associate a Viper with a super car? The Viper is in the awkward zone of not quite being a Corvette, but not quite fancy or expensive enough to be like the Ford GT was. Car and Driver puts the Viper in the same segment as cars like the Corvette, Porsche 911, Audi R8, etc. When the Corvette outranks the Viper in about every category in the reviews and costs half as much, it's no surprise they're not selling. The Viper ranks 8th among cars in its segment according to C&D. If I had the money to buy a car that expensive, I'd read some reviews and test drive them all myself before making a purchase. When that car is twice as much as a car that's rated much higher by C&D, that's generally taken into consideration unless you're dead set on a Viper (which not many people are judging by the sales figures so far)
 
...Viper ACR?


I mean, the ZR1 vs. ACR would probably be a better comparison... But, even so, the Viper just looks better. As long as I don't have to be seen in something as ugly as the 2015 Corvette, I'm happy...
 
cnd01
But how many people actually associate a Viper with a super car? The Viper is in the awkward zone of not quite being a Corvette, but not quite fancy or expensive enough to be like the Ford GT was. Car and Driver puts the Viper in the same segment as cars like the Corvette, Porsche 911, Audi R8, etc. When the Corvette outranks the Viper in about every category in the reviews and costs half as much, it's no surprise they're not selling. The Viper ranks 8th among cars in its segment according to C&D. If I had the money to buy a car that expensive, I'd read some reviews and test drive them all myself before making a purchase. When that car is twice as much as a car that's rated much higher by C&D, that's generally taken into consideration unless you're dead set on a Viper (which not many people are judging by the sales figures so far)
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Plenty of people so much so that it is done in many automotive journalist set ups. Also when it came out it was touted as the bang for your buck super car. Also the ZR1 and Z06 were never as fancy as the GT either nor as expensive. Neither was the GT even with price dealer mark ups. Also the R8 and 911 GT3 are 100K + cars and considered Super Cars as well, not sure where you've been all this time...

Also when has the Vette base model outranked any Version of the Viper for half the cost...the ZR1 outright beat it, the Z06 beat it in many areas (1/4 mile and 0-60 I think is where it lost) but neither were half the price. One is more than the Viper at a 120K and the other is only about 10-20K less than the viper and that is if your buying a strictly Z06. If you go for a better packaged version it gets to be only 3-5k less than a regular Viper.

Obviously, you've never been to a dealership to look or test these cars, you don't just simply test drive it as if it's a Toyota Corolla. Anyways, once again, the apples to oranges comparison that Car and Driver did was just that. It may be rated higher because one is easier to drive than the other but at in the same time frame C&D was also testing the '13 ZR1 against the Viper.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Plenty of people so much so that it is done in many automotive journalist set ups. Also when it came out it was touted as the bang for your buck super car. Also the ZR1 and Z06 were never as fancy as the GT either nor as expensive. Neither was the GT even with price dealer mark ups. Also the R8 and 911 GT3 are 100K + cars and considered Super Cars as well, not sure where you've been all this time...

Also when has the Vette base model outranked any Version of the Viper for half the cost...the ZR1 outright beat it, the Z06 beat it in many areas (1/4 mile and 0-60 I think is where it lost) but neither were half the price. One is more than the Viper at a 120K and the other is only about 10-20K less than the viper and that is if your buying a strictly Z06. If you go for a better packaged version it gets to be only 3-5k less than a regular Viper.

Obviously, you've never been to a dealership to look or test these cars, you don't just simply test drive it as if it's a Toyota Corolla. Anyways, once again, the apples to oranges comparison that Car and Driver did was just that. It may be rated higher because one is easier to drive than the other but at in the same time frame C&D was also testing the '13 ZR1 against the Viper.
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Who's plenty of people? The R8 and 911 are supercars when they're the GT2 and 5.2 models which cost upwards of $200,000. Not sure how you call the base model 911 a super car...

The Viper GTS (the one compared to the ZR-1 and Z06) costs at a base of $125 for the GTS and that's if you get the base model. There's plenty of options that'll get the price right to around $140 which really doesn't fit in the super car or the performance car category. Call it a bargain if you want, but I think of it as an expensive Corvette that gets crappy gas mileage.

If I took documented records of my bank data showing I was a serious buyer and wouldn't make a purchase unless I got a test drive of a Viper to make sure I liked the car, I'm sure I could get a test drive very quickly and easily...
 
cnd01
Who's plenty of people? The R8 and 911 are supercars when they're the GT2 and 5.2 models which cost upwards of $200,000. Not sure how you call the base model 911 a super car...
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No the R8 is a super car any way you spin it there is no base model R8 that is under 100k like there is a porsche 911 or a Corvette. The car is a super car through and through and the only real difference is if you want a V8 or V10 but you basically get the same car either way and can option it out as such. Unless you want to talk nuances in the width and length between the two differing engines, it still doesn't knock it out. Also where did I say the base 911 was a super car? Since I even said that the GT3 is the super car. Are you going to try and make me sound like I don't know what I'm talking about even though my posts say otherwise?

The Viper GTS (the one compared to the ZR-1 and Z06) costs at a base of $125 for the GTS and that's if you get the base model. There's plenty of options that'll get the price right to around $140 which really doesn't fit in the super car or the performance car category. Call it a bargain if you want, but I think of it as an expensive Corvette that gets crappy gas mileage.
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You do realize that the only real difference in the Base and GTS is mainly interior wise? There are carbon parts but the car weighs more than the Base when it's all said an done. The cars are virtually the same in every way just one has a great option package, they both can come with the same SRT track pack. Also the Base model Viper cost 105K, also how is this not super car category? Because you don't want it to be...cause every review I've seen other than testing it against the C7 because they could and it was new puts it against other Super Cars.

If I took documented records of my bank data showing I was a serious buyer and wouldn't make a purchase unless I got a test drive of a Viper to make sure I liked the car, I'm sure I could get a test drive very quickly and easily...
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Sure or if you had a loan already from a bank, I say this with actual knowledge because my father would pull this bs just to test drive sport cars/super cars. The last time he did this was back in 2012 when the local car dealership where I was living had a Shelby GT500 with a sticker price of 68k and obviously they weren't going to let just any joe drive their most expensive car on the lot.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Are you going to try and make me sound like I don't know what I'm talking about even though my posts say otherwise?
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Such defensive!
LMSCorvetteGT2
Sure or if you had a loan already from a bank, I say this with actual knowledge because my father would pull this bs just to test drive sport cars/super cars. The last time he did this was back in 2012 when the local car dealership where I was living had a Shelby GT500 with a sticker price of 68k and obviously they weren't going to let just any joe drive their most expensive car on the lot.
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I know people who pull this bs too. With my luck, I'd crash the car pulling out of the lot
 
cnd01
Such defensive!
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Think you've been inhaling what ever goes into making the Doge Vinyl for Wise's car.

I know people who pull this bs too. With my luck, I'd crash the car pulling out of the lot
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Well my father's a truck driver and has been one for 12 years now, and use to do drag racing so I'm not too worried about him doing it. Others though I obviously can't vouch for.

As for the rest of what I said...I guess you rather move on.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
Think you've been inhaling what ever goes into making the Doge Vinyl for Wise's car.
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buy+some+wow.jpg

LMSCorvetteGT2
Well my father's a truck driver and has been one for 12 years now, and use to do drag racing so I'm not too worried about him doing it. Others though I obviously can't vouch for.

As for the rest of what I said...I guess you rather move on.
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My #1 rule of operating a motor vehicle is that everyone on the road is an idiot except yourself :lol:
 
Are the Conti Challenge races from Limerock being livestreamed this upcoming weekend?
 
Mac K
Are the Conti Challenge races from Limerock being livestreamed this upcoming weekend?
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Unfortunately no. Timing and scoring only from what I've found :(
 
And at the end of the Laguna Seca broadcast I believe I heard that the next TV broadcast is from the Glen.......?
I can see not broadcasting 5 hours from LRP but not even a recap? Kansas skipped too......?


Showers possible Friday at Lime Rock, Saturday looks fine.

Go TRIM-TEX!!

Bmv1yyOCYAE1HVd.jpg
 
Wait... What?? Who's racing on LRP this weekend??
 
Jav
Wait... What?? Who's racing on LRP this weekend??
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Only the best racing series on the planet :) No stream though :(
(Conti)
 
01GTP
And at the end of the Laguna Seca broadcast I believe I heard that the next TV broadcast is from the Glen.......?
I can see not broadcasting 5 hours from LRP but not even a recap? Kansas skipped too......?
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To be honest, is anyone really that interested in Kansas?
 
There is no category of racing nor enough money in this world to make me watch a sportscar race on the Kansas road course.
 
RACECAR
There is no category of racing nor enough money in this world to make me watch a sportscar race on the Kansas road course.
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Normally I would agree, but Taylors defense against Pruett last year was some outstanding racing. Unfortunately, it probably just cemented the track to the schedule for some time to come.
 

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