2021 F1 Driver ThreadFormula 1

[Dennisch]

De Vries might just be the worst possible replacement, then. No experience, no preparation, not a great talent either, too old to develop at a high rate. Crashes guaranteed.

And completely devoid from any character. What a boring media trained drone that guy is. Blegh.

 

[Roo]

Whilst I very much doubt Latifi will be replaced before the end of the season, it is convenient that the current Formula E season finishes during the F1 summer break, freeing de Vries up for Spa onwards.

 

[Famine]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand de Vries is in for Williams for FP1 at Barcelona

 

[Magog]

Haas puts pressure on Schumacher: 'The points have to come'

Mick Schumacher has not yet secured any points for his team during the first five Grands Prix of the season. Although Guenther Steiner is patient with the German for the time being, it appears in an interview with RTL Deutschland that the team boss still expects something from Schumacher.

www.gpblog.com

This is what I was talking about when I said Steiner was a terrible team boss. He always says this insulting garbage out in the open. Say these things in private but in public defend your drivers to the end of the earth. A lot of F1 is mental even if it's taboo to admit it.

 

[Northstar]

Say these things in private but in public defend your drivers to the end of the earth.

I think we get more than enough of that between Toto and the Karen Horner, a little harsh honesty is more than welcome.

 

[Magog]

I think we get more than enough of that between Toto and the Karen Horner, a little harsh honesty is more than welcome.

And look how many driver's championship titles their drivers have gotten. That's the entire point. That's how you encourage success.

 

[Northstar]

And look how many driver's championship titles their drivers have gotten. That's the entire point. That's how you encourage success.

Here I was thinking you needed talent, a great car and a team capable of consistently executing to win championships when all you need is some positivity! Mercedes and Red Bull would still be on top whether the team principals put on prima-donna acts for the camera or not.

Also, why do I have a feeling your stance would be different if the driver in question was Mazepin and not Schumacher?

 

[Magog]

Here I was thinking you needed talent, a great car and a team capable of consistently executing to win championships when all you need is some positivity! Mercedes and Red Bull would still be on top whether the team principals put on prima-donna acts for the camera or not.

Also, why do I have a feeling your stance would be different if the driver in question was Mazepin and not Schumacher?

You also need positivity and encouragement in addition to the right skills and equipment. And yes he's been a jerk to all his drivers publicly at one time or another both talented and less talented. He has no people skills and a short temper.

 

[XJ40]

Mick needs to get some points on the board. I am willing to bet he is aware of this.

Also I would have a short temper if someone FokSmashed my office door in.

 

[McLaren]

Where's the lie or issue? He said, "It would have been nice if Mick's button had been flipped, unfortunately he hasn't hit that hurdle yet. The points have to come at some point. Kevin has already scored points. He has shown the way."

There's nothing rude or insulting about this statement or even like that Mick needs points in the next weekend or he's finished, it's just the honest truth; the points do have to come sometime this season. It certainly isn't helping that Albon has returned after a year away & is outperforming the Williams, that Zhou has basically 1-upped Mick at each race so far besides Miami, or that Yuki who debuted in 2021 w/ Mick (full time, not counting w/ Alfa) is already now up to grips with the Alpha Tauri.

Mick is more than likely aware, and Guenther/Kevin are most likely helping Mick behind the scenes. Hell, if Ralf is saying this, "Mick was consistently faster than his teammate and he created the basis for himself to finish in the points. He made the difference as a driver in terms of speed. So it's going in the right direction and that's exactly what Ferrari team boss Mattia Binotto wants to see", then the issue is less Guenther & more Mick still learning.

 

[Magog]

Where's the lie or issue? He said, "It would have been nice if Mick's button had been flipped, unfortunately he hasn't hit that hurdle yet. The points have to come at some point. Kevin has already scored points. He has shown the way."

There's nothing rude or insulting about this statement or even like that Mick needs points in the next weekend or he's finished, it's just the honest truth; the points do have to come sometime this season. It certainly isn't helping that Albon has returned after a year away & is outperforming the Williams, that Zhou has basically 1-upped Mick at each race so far besides Miami, or that Yuki who debuted in 2021 w/ Mick (full time, not counting w/ Alfa) is already now up to grips with the Alpha Tauri.

Mick is more than likely aware, and Guenther/Kevin are most likely helping Mick behind the scenes. Hell, if Ralf is saying this, "Mick was consistently faster than his teammate and he created the basis for himself to finish in the points. He made the difference as a driver in terms of speed. So it's going in the right direction and that's exactly what Ferrari team boss Mattia Binotto wants to see", then the issue is less Guenther & more Mick still learning.

Look at the way Horner talked about his drivers and you'll see the difference. It's added public pressure that doesn't help anything. And it's not just this one statement it's basically any time a driver doesn't live up to his expectations.

 

[McLaren]

Look at the way Horner talked about his drivers and you'll see the difference. It's added public pressure that doesn't help anything. And it's not just this one statement it's basically any time a driver doesn't live up to his expectations.

Half the **** Horner says about his drivers is just to get under Toto's skin & vice versa. He's been quiet this season in comparison to the past.

Horner's drivers are also under a top team & competing for championships. At that point, there's not much criticism to give a driver to do better.

 

[NotThePrez]

Look at the way Horner talked about his drivers and you'll see the difference. It's added public pressure that doesn't help anything. And it's not just this one statement it's basically any time a driver doesn't live up to his expectations.

Firstly, Horner is notorious for being a constant 🤬-stirrer in the F1 circus, so it'd do you good to take his statements with at least a grain of salt on standby. At this point it's pretty clear that he (alongside Marko) uses this as a tactic to mess with the other teams, particularly Mercedes.

Secondly, Steiner isn't wrong. Their car's fast and is plenty capable of scoring points, and Mick has yet to capitalize on that. There's nothing rude or anything about what Steiner said, he was speaking the truth. If you've followed F1 for any significant amount of time, you know that it's an incredibly results-focused sport, so Micks performance so far is bound to raise some concerned eyebrows, especially given how Albon and Zhou have performed so far.

Of course, Mick has also shown to be somewhat of a late bloomer in the junior series, and this year he actually has a well put-together car. I have a feeling he'll get it together, though I'd be mighty concerned if Mick's performance hasn't improved come the summer break.

 

[Magog]

Half the **** Horner says about his drivers is just to get under Toto's skin & vice versa. He's been quiet this season in comparison to the past.

Horner's drivers are also under a top team & competing for championships. At that point, there's not much criticism to give a driver to do better.

Short memory. Horner fired a driver in the middle of the season but his criticisms were far more professional and businesslike whereas Steiner acts like a disappointed dad or a frustrated high school basketball coach. His skill set isn't at F1 level.

 

[McLaren]

Short memory. Horner fired a driver in the middle of the season but his criticisms were far more professional and businesslike whereas Steiner acts like a disappointed dad or a frustrated high school basketball coach. His skill set isn't at F1 level.

Except where he said one thing and did another for that driver?

Following the last race in Hungary Horner said the team intended to keep Gasly in place until the end of the year. But a little over a week later they announced Gasly had been replaced by Albon.

Red Bull dropped Gasly because he was "struggling with the pressure" - Horner

Christian Horner says Red Bull replaced Pierre Gasly because he was "struggling with the pressure" and his performances were deteriorating.

www.racefans.net

Let's hear more from that driver.

“I’d had a crash in winter testing, and from that moment on the season never really got going. Then I had a tough first two races with Red Bull and the media just ate me up. Anything I said in the press was twisted into an excuse for my form, and nobody really stuck up for me.”

The car wasn’t perfect, and I was doing my best to try to improve and learn each week, but like … here’s what I’ll say about it: It was a difficult time for me at Red Bull because I didn’t feel like I was really supported and treated the same way as others there have been. And for me … that’s something that I just can’t accept.”

I called our team principal, Christian Horner, just to ask him what I could be doing more of on race weekends to improve, and to see if he could take a closer look at my side of the garage to see what could be done” he said. “Christian said he would do all he could. And that was that."

In the recently released Drive to Survive S3 Netflix series, Gasly hears Horner commenting on his progress, prompting a bitter reaction from the Frenchman: “The way they treat this is a joke.”

No further love appears to be lost as during the same episode Horner says in an interview: “From a team point of view, there’s been no-one pushing internally to say: ‘We’ve got to have Pierre back.'”

Pierre Gasly says 'it was never going to work at Red Bull'

Pierre Gasly has given his side of the story on the events of his torrid Red Bull tenure in 2019

www.motorsportmagazine.com

 

[NotThePrez]

Short memory. Horner fired a driver in the middle of the season...

Correction: Not fired, demoted. In each instance. There's a very significant difference in meaning there.

...but his criticisms were far more professional and businesslike whereas Steiner acts like a disappointed dad or a frustrated high school basketball coach. His skill set isn't at F1 level.

As @McLaren has shown, Horner is not a stranger to doublespeak, which I personally would say is the extreme opposite of acting "professional and business like." And this might just be me, but it's especially hard for me to call Horner "professional" given his antics and some of his comments over the years.

Has Steiner had some poor moments? Absolutely. But, again, it comes with the territory of being a competitor. It doesn't help either when you're in charge of a team that is seemingly in a constant fight to exist each season, and always seem to have at least one (and sometimes 2) driver(s) that, if you didn't know any better, were going out of their way to make your life as difficult as possible.

This isn't Steiner having a poor moment. This is him being real and calling it like it is.

 

[McLaren]

It doesn't help either when you're in charge of a team that is seemingly in a constant fight to exist each season, and always seem to have at least one (and sometimes 2) driver(s) that, if you didn't know any better, were going out of their way to make your life as difficult as possible.

This isn't Steiner having a poor moment. This is him being real and calling it like it is.

Yeah, this is where I'm still not getting why the go-to comparison was Horner. It's immensely easier for him to give feedback on his drivers than nearly everyone else when they're championship contending drivers compared to someone who had to watch over 2 rookies last year.

On top of that, the "controversial" quote by Steiner about Mick isn't any different from how Horner has spoken about 1 driver in relation of them needing to match the other's performance. Hell, he's literally saying here Alex was either improve or you're out, something Steiner didn't say.

Horner noted in Portugal last weekend that Albon had to show signs of progress relative to team mate Max Verstappen in Portugal and "particularly Imola," hinting that he is up against a deadline to secure his seat for 2021.

Horner: Red Bull "committed" to Albon for remainder of 2020 F1 season

Red Bull boss Christian Horner says that the team is 'committed' to Alex Albon for the rest of the 2020 Formula 1 season, amid speculation over his future.

www.autosport.com

“It’s very much a Red Bull seat, or a year on the bench. So the focus is on giving him that opportunity,” Horner told reporters in Bahrain when speaking about Albon’s future before Free Practice 2.

Alex Albon's P12 receives Christian Horner head shake | PlanetF1

Alex Albon will start the Sakhir Grand Prix from P12, and that didn't go down well with Red Bull principal Christian Horner.

www.planetf1.com

“I think Pierre is having a tough time at the moment and we are doing our very best to support him. I think he just needs a reset. We know what he is capable of, and I think that we have just somehow got to go ‘Ctrl+Alt+Del’ in his head and start again. He is a quick driver and I think the problem he has got is that Max is delivering every week and that puts more pressure obviously on him to perform. But we are sticking behind him, we still believe in him and we will give him all the support we can to try to nurture the talent that we know he has.”

Red Bull Has “No Intention” To Replace Gasly In 2019 Says Horner

Red Bull team boss Christian Horner says that Red Bull has 'no intention' of dropping Pierre Gasly mid-season, despite a lacking start to his 2019

wtf1.com

 

[toastet]

I don't think Haas is a regular points contender anymore. Don't want to be too rude because they found a second of pace but they are still around 1.3 to 1.5 seconds behind the leaders (2.5s or more in 2021). Even in Bahrain with Kevins superb performance the gap in the race was 1.5 seconds per lap to Charles/Max which leads to the problem that their performance was mostly based on other teams performing even poorer. Now all competitors made their step (most already did that in Jeddah and Melbourne) and found their pace and kicked the Haas out of the Top10 if not into the last spot in danger getting beaten by Albon in the Williams. I think it will be very very tough for Mick to achieve points without a lot of unusual stuff happening to the cars in front. He sadly missed the best opportunity in Bahrain and I don't think he'll be able to score points if Haas didn't find at least 0,3-0,5s in pace to the rest of their competitors in the midfield.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Even if you're not fighting for points, a driver needs to be close to their team mate. Look at Latifi and Mazepin last year, never fighting for points unless something crazy happened, but still under a load of media and fan pressure for being woefully off the pace of their team mates. Schumacher is now finding out what it's like to be on the other side of that coin, and his crash with Vettel at Miami felt more like desperation for the point rather than a genuine mistake. He does need to step it up, because last year he was making Mazepin look bad, but now his performance against Magnussen is poor, it's making Mazepin look even worse, and bringing down the "achievement" of being faster than him all season - all of which is to the detriment of Mick.
He's always been a late bloomer who suddenly finds pace mid-season, but now Gunther can see his car fight for points, his patience might run out soon.

 

[toastet]

Yes of course Mick needs to be on par with Kevin and beat him regularly regardless getting points. I still hope it's just his normal "problem" with new cars. Everytime he did enter a new class or car his first performances up to half a season weren't good. Miami was promising pace wise so hope he'll continue now

 

[TheCracker]

And yes he's been a jerk to all his drivers publicly at one time or another both talented and less talented. He has no people skills and a short temper.

Are we talking about the edited-for-Netflix-during-the-previous-season Guenther Steiner or the one who gets interviewed live on race weekend? The two serve different purposes.

 

[MagpieRacer]

It's clear De Vries is going to be compared to Latifi, not just by fans who will rip Latifi apart if De Vries is even close to his times, nevermind if he beats him. But also by Williams, he might not be the most charismatic character in the world but Williams need someone who can push Albon and the car forward. Latifi simply can't do either and, as I've mentioned elsewhere, sponsorship money doesn't mean a whole lot in budget cap era F1 and the cost of repairs will eventually outweigh his worth to the team.

 

[Liquid]

I don't think the Haas is as good as everyone says it is. I'd lean towards Magnussen outperforming the car rather than Schumacher underperforming.

This year's Haas is like the 2001 Prost; the experienced driver doing better than expected, the inexperienced driver not at the same level but as expected given the team's relative strength on the grid. Both Alesi and Frentzen had the car regularly in the top 10 (when points only went down to 6th) but the number two drivers Mazzecane, Burti and Enge couldn't do the same. The AP04 wasn't the fourth or fifth best car that year, Alesi and Frentzen just did that damn well.

 

[NICKname]

I don't think the Haas is as good as everyone says it is. I'd lean towards Magnussen outperforming the car rather than Schumacher underperforming.

This year's Haas is like the 2001 Prost; the experienced driver doing better than expected, the inexperienced driver not at the same level but as expected given the team's relative strength on the grid. Both Alesi and Frentzen had the car regularly in the top 10 (when points only went down to 6th) but the number two drivers Mazzecane, Burti and Enge couldn't do the same. The AP04 wasn't the fourth or fifth best car that year, Alesi and Frentzen just did that damn well.

Outperforming the car is not a real thing. If you think a driver is outperforming their car it means you're severely overrating their team mate. Magnussen isn't a magician, he's just a much better driver than Schumacher. If Magnussen had Verstappen or Leclerc as his team mate he would probably be way behind them himself.

Same goes for the Prost example. I mean, Mazzecane, Burti and Enge? Come on. Obviously their team mates destroyed them. They made the car look worse than it really was, not the other way around (which would be physically impossible).

 

[Magog]

Are we talking about the edited-for-Netflix-during-the-previous-season Guenther Steiner or the one who gets interviewed live on race weekend? The two serve different purposes.

Both. You do realize they can't actually put words in his mouth, right?

 

[MagpieRacer]

Both. You do realize they can't actually put words in his mouth, right?

Heard of a script? You know, like the obviously scripted Toto and George moment among many, many others.

 

[TheCracker]

Both. You do realize they can't actually put words in his mouth, right?

Of course not, although statements can be edited out of context. But that's beside the point. Stuff Steiner says on Netflix is broadcast a season later. No driver is going to get disheartened about what was said more than a year previously. I don't ever recall seeing a live interview with him when he's been quite as blunt as he can appear on DtS.

 

[Magog]

Of course not, although statements can be edited out of context. But that's beside the point. Stuff Steiner says on Netflix is broadcast a season later. No driver is going to get disheartened about what was said more than a year previously. I don't ever recall seeing a live interview with him when he's been quite as blunt as he can appear on DtS.

What the Netflix stuff shows is that he has no ability to control the environment within the team.

 

[Famine]

When Steiner says "the points have to come at some point", is he saying "Mick needs to start getting some points, or else", or is he saying "Mick's had bad luck but he's good enough that it's inevitable that the points will start coming"?


Still, the bad-take barrel hasn't quite been scraped through yet. Imagine holding up Horner (and his boss Marko) as an example of how to correctly manage drivers when they routinely offer zero support for their second driver and excuse away disqualifiable behaviour from their first.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Both. You do realize they can't actually put words in his mouth, right?

"You do realise" is a great way to start a rebuttal where the other person is ignoring all the valid points being made in response, which you definitely understand as you have used it correctly here.

Is it worth a mod editing back all the responses people have made to your comments with "You do realise" at the start, because there are a lot of good points being made that you keep ignoring to drive forward your narrative of hate without even giving proper evidence or at least stating that what you're saying is an opinion, rather than fact.