Do you believe in God?

[huskeR32]

It doesn't bother me if somebody is an athiest, that is their decision. What bothers me is those who speak of their belief as if it is fact and then try and us it as an excuse to belittle those with (or without) faith. (And yes I am still going to refer to athiesm as a belief because their is no concrete proof that it is true).

A lot of the athiests in this thread are continuously insistent that their is no God and that Science will eventually solve the mystery of the origins of the universe, and if it does what if the answer is God?

If it turns out their isn't, then fair enough, I will accept that, but if their is, then I just carry on as normal.

No concrete proof that what is true?

Religious folks tend to twist atheism into an active claim that there isn't a God, in reality it's just saying that without proof of a God, we don't believe in one. There's a big distinction there, if you honestly think about it. And when you do honestly think about the true meaning of atheism, you'll realize IT'S NOT A BELIEF!

It makes no sense to say that atheism isn't proven, because atheism doesn't claim anything. It chooses not to claim unproven things.

 

[Tic Tach]

That quip about being cradled by modern society was totally unnecessary

How so? A person makes a comment about being "persecuted" (which is laughable) and I merely point out that he has no idea what persecution is. How is that "totally unnecessary" or offensive?

 

[Tic Tach]

No concrete proof that what is true?

Religious folks tend to twist atheism into an active claim that there isn't a God, in reality it's just saying that without proof of a God, we don't believe in one. There's a big distinction there, if you honestly think about it. And when you do honestly think about the true meaning of atheism, you'll realize IT'S NOT A BELIEF!

It makes no sense to say that atheism isn't proven, because atheism doesn't claim anything. It chooses not to claim unproven things.

When will they get this?

 

[Hun200kmh]

When will they get this?

When you guys stop saying that there is no God. The best you can say is that you don't know.

EDIT - I don't say there are no aliens. I simply don't know. See ?

 

[Tic Tach]

When you guys stop saying that there is no God. The best you can say is that you don't know.

Gah. I've never said "there is no god", rather, based on the staggering lack of evidence, I do not accept the baseless assertion by other humans that there is one. You know exactly what it's like to be an atheist in regards to all of the other gods, I just go one god further.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGT25Oj-6rc

 

[High-Test]

How so? A person makes a comment about being "persecuted" (which is laughable) and I merely point out that he has no idea what persecution is. How is that "totally unnecessary" or offensive?

Allow me to explain, because your arguments are devoid of tact and any semblance of respect for other members.

Persecution?!?!? Give me a break. You've obviously been coddled in the craddle of comfy modern day life for so long, you have no idea what persecution is. The debunking of false beliefs by text or conversation is not persecution, it is an overdue call to reason.

One, it's an ad hominem. Instead of attacking the argument, you're quite clearly attacking arora him/herself. You dismiss him/her as an intellectual inferior to yourself, and then attack arora for his or her very existence in his/her societal surroundings. Do you really think that arora had any choice of his or her societal surroundings or the time in which he or she was born?

I challenge you to make that claim which you've insinuated.

The last sentence of the quoted material would have been quite sufficient. But yet again, you've added an attack on the person for seemingly no reason except to spite the original poster.

 

[Tic Tach]

Allow me to explain, because your arguments are devoid of tact and any semblance of respect for other members.

That is your opinion. It appears that you've decided upon a certain hate for me, so I suggest that you see what you want to see. Given the level of the wild claims and intellectual dishonesty made by the theist, they're swimming in respect.

One, it's an ad hominem. Instead of attacking the argument, you're quite clearly attacking arora him/herself.

I don't concur.

You dismiss him/her as an intellectual inferior to yourself, and then attack arora for his or her very existence in his/her societal surroundings.

I don't concur. He made the bankrupt assertion of being "persecuted", and I addressed that.

Do you really think that arora had any choice of his or her societal surroundings or the time in which he or she was born?

No. But how does that make the claim of "persecution" valid?

 

[arora]

Atheism is catagorized into a few groups, I thought we already went through this? Anyway from what I remember there is possitive atheism-no mater what there is no god, negative atheism-everything else. There are other terms as well, such as, theoretical atheists and of course agnostic. I posted this some time back(#3217).....

Anthony Kenny
Many different definitions may be offered of the word 'God'. Given this fact, atheism makes a much stronger claim than theism does. The atheist says that no matter what definition you choose, 'God exists' is always false. The theist only claims that there is some definition which will make 'God exists' true. In my view, neither the stronger nor the weaker claim has been convincingly established.
Anthony Kenny
The true default position is neither theism nor atheism, but agnosticism ... a claim to knowledge needs to be substantiated; ignorance need only be confessed.

As for Tic Tach's posting style, it's not offensive to me, but I can see it being offensive to others, especially pictures of people eating babies and such

I'll probably respond later this evening, I only gave it a once through as I'm preocupied and can't give it the thought deserved 👍

 

[itsbenjibrand]

It doesn't bother me if somebody is an athiest, that is their decision. What bothers me is those who speak of their belief as if it is fact and then try and us it as an excuse to belittle those with (or without) faith. (And yes I am still going to refer to athiesm as a belief because their is no concrete proof that it is true).

A lot of the athiests in this thread are continuously insistent that there is no God and that Science will eventually solve the mystery of the origins of the universe, and if it does what if the answer is God?

If it turns out there isn't, then fair enough, I will accept that, but if there is, then I just carry on as normal.

Atheism is not a belief. A belief is an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists or something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.. Atheist do not believe in a god, or its existence. Therefore Atheism is more anti-belief than anything. And you are incorrect in stating atheism as a belief.

 

[dylansan]

Tich Tach, here's a way you could have addressed his argument:

Persecution? The debunking of false beliefs by text or conversation is not persecution, it is an overdue call to reason.

The stuff about being coddled had nothing to do with your argument. It wasn't evidence to support your point, nor was it an explanation of your logic. It was entirely addressing the person and not the point, and as such it was unnecessary.

 

[High-Test]

That is your opinion. It appears that you've decided upon a certain hate for me, so I suggest that you see what you want to see. Given the level of the wild claims and intellectual dishonesty made by the theist, they're swimming in respect.

Disagreeing with you equals hating you?

 

[huskeR32]

A few thoughts:

Sometimes these arguments can feel a little personal, and an argument can be made that several people, on both sides of this debate, have seemed to cross that line a little bit. But singling out Tic Tach and making it seem that he's the only one doing so is no different that what you're deriding him for.

And it must be admitted that claiming any type of persecution against Christians in this thread is patently ridiculous. (Persecution certainly does exist in this world, but that's outside the scope of this discussion).

It seems to me that too many people, when they realize they can't back up their argument, resort to calling out the other side for disrespect. Seems a little weak, to say the least.

Are you upset truly because of how some people counter your claims, or is it really a product of the frustration of 178 pages of theists dodging the simple question: Where's the evidence?

I (and others) have posted multiple times now, shooting down claims of "Atheism is a belief, and an unproven one." What's really funny is that nobody ever responds to these. You know that atheism is not a belief, you know that we're right every time we point it out, and yet you ignore it every time, slink away from responding to it, and then claim it again a few pages later. It borders on pathetic.

It seems to me that the longer this thread goes, the theists resort to cries of unfair treatment as a way to dodge the ever-looming question:
-What evidence do you have of God?

And for the last time, don't counter with "Oh yeah? Well what evidence do you have that there isn't a God?" Because I'm not saying there isn't one, I'm just saying I don't believe it without evidence. Theists have made a claim, and so far, have utterly failed to back it up.

 

[Tic Tach]

I'd say both of you are getting awfully nit-picky.

 

[itsbenjibrand]

Disagreeing with you equals hating you?

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion...

 

[Hun200kmh]

Reminder: I think we're forgetting God ... after all, that's what this thread is abut isn't it?

Actual posting: Tic Tach, what wild claims and intellectual dishonesty are you talking about? Please be specific, blanket accusations are a poor way of debating.

 

[Tic Tach]

I (and others) have posted multiple times now, shooting down claims of "Atheism is a belief, and an unproven one." What's really funny is that nobody ever responds to these. You know that atheism is not a belief, you know that we're right every time we point it out, and yet you ignore it every time, slink away from responding to it, and then claim it again a few pages later. It borders on pathetic.

Indeed. It reminds me of this. (sorry, 11 minutes of your time, but it's a beauty).

 

[Tic Tach]

Tic Tach, what wild claims and intellectual dishonesty are you talking about? Please be specific, blanket accusations are a poor way of debating.

The entire package of beliefs of religion in general, and christianity in particular are wild, fantastical claims, and given that one's claims ought to be proportionate to one's evidence, they are inherently intellectually dishonest. And when the claims are debunked and the believer continues to hold said beliefs (often stronger), then the intellectual dishonesty just gets thicker.

 

[Hun200kmh]

And it must be admitted that claiming any type of persecution against Christians in today's world is patently ridiculous.

What? Do some research before you state something like that. I'm not going to post links here, they're so many and so easy to find. Even from non-religious human rights organizations.

 

[hampus_dh]

I have been watching a pretty lame Documentary series called Ancient Aliens. If they would have you believe, God/s were/are infact Aliens who put humanity on the right path.

TBH I believe the Alien theory more than the current God theory! lol

Agree 100%, That´s a way bigger possibility.

 

[Hun200kmh]

The entire package of beliefs of religion in general, and christianity in particular are wild, fantastical claims, and given that one's claims ought to be proportionate to one's evidence, they are inherently intellectually dishonest. And when the claims are debunked and the believer continues to hold said beliefs (often stronger), then the intellectual dishonesty just gets thicker.

Oh I see ... but you must also consider the psychiatric hospitals solution, USSR style. Maybe the people that believe in God even after you debunked that claim are just ... loonies.

 

[dylansan]

I'd say both of you are getting awfully nit-picky.

I'd say you're forgetting that people have feelings. I'm not personally offended by anything you've said, and I don't usually care if people take offense to anything said on the subject of religion and atheism. But some of the things you say are directly insulting to the people you're arguing with. Telling someone they've "obviously" been cradled so long that they have no idea what they're talking about is an insult. The only thing you are arguing is that their idea of persecution is wrong. So tell them that. Don't make assumptions about why they are wrong, especially not the assumption that they don't want to be corrected. If I made a claim that was wrong in an argument, I'd be happy for someone to correct me, but if that person told me I had no idea what I was talking about because I've been coddled by modern society, I would get up and walk away from the condescending jerk.

Not to say you're a condescending jerk, but I assure you many of the people you're arguing with are going to see it that way (and not without reason). And I can't see how you plan to get other people to see it your way (which I can only assume is your goal) when you're making them feel like idiots.

 

[huskeR32]

Indeed. It reminds me of this. (sorry, 11 minutes of your time, but it's a beauty).

👍 Spot on.

 

[huskeR32]

What? Do some research before you state something like that. I'm not going to post links here, they're so many and so easy to find. Even from non-religious human rights organizations.

You're completely right. My thinking was contained to this thread, but I typed it up as "in today's world," which is definitely a baseless claim.

I will change my post to reflect this.

 

[TankAss95]

We each have a desire to seek love and acceptance (God is love...). From childhood on, we try to fill that gap that exists within us. Sharing a life with another person, enjoying the companionship, stems from Adam and Eve who desired to love and be loved, as companions and as a means of creating a world of mankind. The Christian idea that humanity is God’s most prized creation is quite tenable. We need air and it is all around the planet we call home, we require water and it falls in purified form from the sky, we must consume food to live and it grows from the ground and roams water and land in abundance, and a family model of having parents, a spouse and children exists to satisfy our greatest vacancy for love. The strength, beauty and knowledge of each person exist for the edification, maturation and upliftment of the full spectrum of humanity. No other religion besides Christianity most forcefully establishes that life is a gift of love from God and that our lives are to be lived in service to God and humanity. If we believe that this is the way things are designed, then it follows that there is a maker: a God.

 

[huskeR32]

We each have a desire to seek love and acceptance (God is love...). From childhood on, we try to fill that gap that exists within us. Sharing a life with another person, enjoying the companionship, stems from Adam and Eve who desired to love and be loved, as companions and as a means of creating a world of mankind. The Christian idea that humanity is God’s most prized creation is quite tenable. We need air and it is all around the planet we call home, we require water and it falls in purified form from the sky, we must consume food to live and it grows from the ground and roams water and land in abundance, and a family model of having parents, a spouse and children exists to satisfy our greatest vacancy for love. The strength, beauty and knowledge of each person exist for the edification, maturation and upliftment of the full spectrum of humanity. No other religion besides Christianity most forcefully establishes that life is a gift of love from God and that our lives are to be lived in service to God and humanity. If we believe that this is the way things are designed, then it follows that there is a maker: a God.

I don't think I even need to point out what's wrong with that.

 

[hampus_dh]

We each have a desire to seek love and acceptance (God is love...). From childhood on, we try to fill that gap that exists within us. Sharing a life with another person, enjoying the companionship, stems from Adam and Eve who desired to love and be loved, as companions and as a means of creating a world of mankind. The Christian idea that humanity is God’s most prized creation is quite tenable. We need air and it is all around the planet we call home, we require water and it falls in purified form from the sky, we must consume food to live and it grows from the ground and roams water and land in abundance, and a family model of having parents, a spouse and children exists to satisfy our greatest vacancy for love. The strength, beauty and knowledge of each person exist for the edification, maturation and upliftment of the full spectrum of humanity. No other religion besides Christianity most forcefully establishes that life is a gift of love from God and that our lives are to be lived in service to God and humanity. If we believe that this is the way things are designed, then it follows that there is a maker: a God.

I just smoked and this is just awsome reading Fantastic stuff.

 

[Akira AC]

I don't think I even need to point out what's wrong with that.

Exactly, not to mention that such thing doesn't apply for 75% of world's population.

 

[Tic Tach]

....but some of the things you say are directly insulting to the people you're arguing with. Telling someone they've "obviously" been cradled so long that they have no idea what they're talking about is an insult. The only thing you are arguing is that their idea of persecution is wrong. So tell them that. Don't make assumptions about why they are wrong

I understand what you are saying, but I still don't agree that my suggestion that the reason of their claim of persecution is based on his never-before-modern-day-comfort is insulting. I also feel and sense that I am correct in my assessment. If I am wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. So how about it
arora, if your claim that dismantling, debunking, debating god belief/religion in text or conversation is "persecution", and this viewpoint of yours does not come from the lack of appreciation of what persecution really is in many parts of the world and through history, then what is it that makes you call debate persecution?

 

[TankAss95]

I just smoked and this is just awsome reading Fantastic stuff.

That's nice.

 

[Tic Tach]

Sharing a life with another person, enjoying the companionship, stems from Adam and Eve

Unfortunately there was no "Adam & Eve". So if your premise is flawed, so to will be your conclusions.