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Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by furryboy96, Nov 4, 2016.
Money comes from Sony, 60-80 million of it.
You know, it's amazing for me to know how Kazunori Yamauchi and his Team managed to get a niche-based franchise to be one of the best selling video games on the both Playstation 1 and 2. It had the components of niche stuff like cars and realism but somehow managed to gather a majority of casual gamers into making GT a part of their childhood. It kinda reminds me of Top Gear (2002 - 2015), it's a car-based show but yet managed to make it enjoyable to both Car enthusiasts and Non-Car enthusiasts thanks to the comedy they have and not being too much car focused. Similar to how GT and Forza is a racing simulator but in a much more forgiving way compared to PC racing sims. Managing to bringing both types of people in a something that most won't be interested in? That's one of the things i would respect about Kazunori along with his work on his older Gran Turismo's. He changed the racing genre with his games back in the day.
Right now? I'm not too sure.
If I had to have respect for every person that had success in its life, then yeah maybe I would respect him, but that isn't the case. Kaz has done so much against his community that there is no point anymore to consider him.
Literally could write a wikipedia about it, but just a few things:
-Everyone was pissed off with the standards in GT5 and the discrepancy between different tracks and their quality.
-Sound has never improved throughout the years although other sims have all a standard since long time which only PD does not follow.
-GT5's career was lacking a lot, especially due to the poorest AI ever seen in an GT (GT6's career was much worse...)
-Of course non sense decisions (
GT5 photo locations to trash,
menu locations couldn't be used,
GT6's premiums to trash in GT sport,
not able to access interiors without glitching in GT5, and any possibility further removed in GT6,
higher resolution than GT5 but downgrades in night racing with massive reduced headlights, and massive reduction in rain on window animation,
GT6's rally made much, much worse than in any GT ever,
removal of random car racing in GT6's online,
multi class racing (like GT3 and dtm or lemans with 20 years of difference, GT Sport EMPHASIZES multi class racing with VGT's, GT3, and more, racing together))
-Delays (Ability to change time and weather only after Spec2 in GT5,
GT6: Senna content,
-Bugs (Clutch never fixed,
extreme unstable updates for GT6,
Extreme buggy servers since the beginning,
Most buggy and unfair penalty system,
And much more of course. Kaz has done all of these and yet people take him seriously. After optimism stands delusion.
GT1-6 are far from being niche-based as they cater to a large audience. Obviously that audience isn't as big as other genres, but collecting cars and racing them is a formula that works for a large group of people. GT Sport, I'd say that would be a niche game because of its smaller scope.
...That, I'm guessing, was the figure quoted for the GT5, around 60 mil, dunno where the 80 came from, though. Besides, what's your point? He's a brilliant businessman, who has a certain vision for his business model, and he sells it hard to Sony's investors. They bought into it, hence the continued support for him and his company.
Ah i thought GT5 was 80 million somehow, my bad.
He made a successful videogame and as far as i can recall was pretty much sponsored by Sony from the get go. That still doesn't make you a 'brilliant businessman'
The 80 million was an estimate expanded from the time that the 60 million number was given for that point (a year and change before GT5 came out).
Even at 60 million that's about 15 times the budget of what most studios in the same genre (racing games) have to work with.
What happened with all that money?
Dance lessons. How else do you think he could pull off those moves at Copper Box?
Most studios also don't have the luxury of taking 6 years to make a game, I imagine a large chunk of that cash just went on basic salaries/expenses over those years.
110 employees with an average wage of $57,000 x 6 years = net $38 million. Obviously far from precise but still.
That's it. Given that we know that a large number of those employees have probably been there for a while (Kaz's whole family approach) and therefore possibly have inflated wages due to regular pay rises, it's not that hard to do the math so that most of the money is spent simply getting people to turn up to work.
And if they're throwing away their work and rebuilding every 18 months because Kaz has another bright idea, or wasting their time on cool but time inefficient features, then it's no wonder that it takes them a lot of money to get not much done.
It sure is a lot of money but I doubt Sony is just throwing it away irresponsibly. Some of the previous iterations benefits must have been reinjected into PD’s future projects too. Mothership will eventually soak a cyclical loss (if any) but would probably pull the plug if it became structural.
That budget would also include promotional events no? If you see all the events they hold worldwide (with the same demo ), and launch events like the one they held in Ronda, that would take up quite a few millions too.
I think promotional events are normally handled by the distributor, in this case Sony, but not sure if that applies here.
Ok but seeing Sony is already paying the whole budget wouldn't they include that in their 60 million figure then? Would make sense as 60 million is enormous for just one videogame.
They would include that if they decided to include that from the start. Since the 60 million figure came from long before any of the promotional events or advertising campaigns occurred (or the game actually being finished), it's possible none of those costs were included. Remember, when that figure was quoted the game was still supposed to come out in March of 2010.
Oh, certainly. But there's more and less efficient ways of doing things. Think instead of a company on a short but regular release schedule. They're just as likely to find reasons to rebuild, but they're likely to finish the game as is and hold them for the next dev cycle instead of actually starting again. As a result, there's far less wastage of labour at the cost of improvements potentially coming a little later by waiting for the next game.
But would such a short cycle of release turn PD into a more profitable company? Wouldn’t that model require a fundamental change of structure and operation? What kind of added value (in both gameplay and profit) would it ultimately allow from one (short) release to the next?
Not that there doesn’t appear to be wasted resources at PD of course. Specifically after the controversial recycling of PS2 assets episode, you would imagine better future-proofing of content became an elementary concern.
I definitely still have respect for Kaz.
If you see the increase in overall quality nowadays from one iteration of GT to the next, they might as well release every 2 years.
They are at risk now of spending 60 million and waiting for all these years, whilst ending up with the sales figure of GT6 again which is still better than other racing games, but i doubt it covers the costs.
Back in the hay days they would sell enough copies to make the development budget worthwhile, but that's not the case anymore due to the series having become a bit bland, and that there is better competition out there which surpasses it in a lot of areas.
gettin jiggy wit it
As a game developer, no. He seems to be creatively bankrupt. Jumping onto the eSports bandwagon isnt exactly original. Originality in Gran Turismo was big things like adding b-spec or little things like oil changes. GT is suppose to lead the way, not follow.
The best path going forward is for Kaz to step down to some sort of advisory role, while letting someone else in the department take over the decision making process. Because the last 10 years have proven its just not working anymore and change is essential.
Sadly it seems Sony isnt too concerned because they feel once GT is released on the PS4 it will sell software and more importantly hardware. Until there is change GT is a lost cause, so dont expect GTS to pull a rabbit out of the hat and actually be a great racing game. It wont. GTS still has PS1 era quirks for crying out loud. Its a a joke and the reason why I cant respect Kaz as a developer.
Do you have a time machine or something? No one knows how GTS will turn out. You probably shouldn't make your opinions appear as fact.
Did GT6 really cost that much? With many of it’s assets being derived/recycled from GT5?
Anyway, let’s imagine PD has an approximative median 10M$/year running cost. As a 20 year (almost) old company spreading 76M+ of it products into the market it needs a minimal 2,6$ margin per unit to enter profitability. With Sony and PD carving the lions share of the franchise global revenue, it becomes rather easy to consider it as massively effective. Notwithstanding that as a AAA exclusive GT ties the players into Sony’s eco-system, something clearly valuable in a market shifting towards dematerialized services. I guess PD’s competitors would happily embrace it’s business profitability.
I do not dislike him. But I do not like/respect him either
When I was younger I used to have admiration for him, but after the many failing of last-gen and myself simply maturing and losing interest in video games, I feel indifferent about him now. He's just another guy among a long list of other guys.
That's the past up until now (how did you end up with 76M copies though?), whilst my post was more aimed at their current sales volume which might be a lot lower looking at GT6 but the budget stays the same nonetheless.
As much as I like black and white polls most of the time, I think A. This poll's end date should be extended and B. It's probably a 5 colour poll.
If it were 5 colours, I'd be the 4th, I don't dislike him, I just think he's gone on a walkabout for about 5 years or so... Somewhere between GT4 and GT5, and I don't see him coming back into the light.
I think the series would be made amazing without him... at least without him in charge, he's not moving with the times any more, and he certainly isn't trend setting any more.
But in this poll, I'd be more No than Yes. Can't respect someone for who they 'used' to be, or what they've previously accomplished. It's about who they are today, and what they're doing now.
That's the official figure from Polyphony's website. As of September this year, the GT franchise, across all version on all platforms, has sold a grand total of 76.84 million copies. http://www.polyphony.co.jp/products/
If we look at the recent history, we should look not just at GT6, but at the complete last gen sales IMO. This way we can eliminate any possibility of the PS4 release, and similarities between GT5 and GT6, hampering GT6 sales.
GT Franchise sales by system:
When you lay it out like that, the GT franchise's sales actually look pretty healthy last gen, especially when you consider the PSP co-existed with the PS3's console gen. Of course, we'll have to wait and see how GTS sells to see if GT6's low sales figures were a sign of a downward trend or not, but they seem to be in good enough shape, as far as sales go, to me.
Let’s consider a cumulated cost of 100M$ for GT5 and 6. With 17,010,000 copies sold profitability starts at 5,87$ margin per unit. Still plenty of room for benefits, even with a 60M$ (doubtable) budget for GT6 alone.