FIA Race Discussion [Archive]

[praiano63]

I like races which are equal.

I don't understand your definition of "equal". The fact that you are a superfast skilled driver raise you at the top of the ranking most of the time , together with a few others very fast drivers.
Tuning allowed in the yesterday race just increase the number of drivers in this normally very small elite of GTS racing.
This is my definition of equal !! Tuning don't make already very fast top drivers a lot faster , but adapting a car a certain way that a medium driver is able to catch the pace of a faster pack ahead , because the car is easier , having more battles , turning the contest more interesting because more people involved.....
By the way i've had published a tune for anybody use days before the event. This is a very fair point in my opinion, we can share a tune to let anybody able to have more fun in the race ( catching a fight with normally faster driver put a smile on the face of any normal average player.)
You can't share you're superior skills , not even if you wanted to.
Tuning is not cheating , it's part of racing as skills are since the roman chariot.
A chance that my Red bull race slot yesterday was fantastic and fair. Lot of fun. Even first right turn lap 1 👍

 

[Patclash]

I don't understand your definition of "equal". The fact that you are a superfast skilled driver raise you at the top of the ranking most of the time , together with a few others very fast drivers.
Tuning allowed in the yesterday race just increase the number of drivers in this normally very small elite of GTS racing.
This is my definition of equal !! Tuning don't make already very fast top drivers a lot faster , but adapting a car a certain way that a medium driver is able to catch the pace of a faster pack ahead , because the car is easier , having more battles , turning the contest more interesting because more people involved.....
By the way i've had published a tune for anybody use days before the event. This is a very fair point in my opinion, we can share a tune to let anybody able to have more fun in the race ( catching a fight with normally faster driver put a smile on the face of any normal average player.)
You can't share you're superior skills , not even if you wanted to.
Tuning is not cheating , it's part of racing as skills are since the roman chariot.
A chance that my Red bull race slot yesterday was fantastic and fair. Lot of fun. Even first right turn lap 1 👍

+1
and note that the default setting of many cars are crap
(gearbox and LSD mostly )

 

[mthomas_95]

I don't understand your definition of "equal". The fact that you are a superfast skilled driver raise you at the top of the ranking most of the time , together with a few others very fast drivers.
Tuning allowed in the yesterday race just increase the number of drivers in this normally very small elite of GTS racing.
This is my definition of equal !! Tuning don't make already very fast top drivers a lot faster , but adapting a car a certain way that a medium driver is able to catch the pace of a faster pack ahead , because the car is easier , having more battles , turning the contest more interesting because more people involved.....
By the way i've had published a tune for anybody use days before the event. This is a very fair point in my opinion, we can share a tune to let anybody able to have more fun in the race ( catching a fight with normally faster driver put a smile on the face of any normal average player.)
You can't share you're superior skills , not even if you wanted to.
Tuning is not cheating , it's part of racing as skills are since the roman chariot.
A chance that my Red bull race slot yesterday was fantastic and fair. Lot of fun. Even first right turn lap 1 👍

Cars with different setups are hardly equal, and that's before we get into how introducing so many new variables throws any BoP out of line. Yes setups exist in real life racing, but so do race engineers and we don't have access to them. A drivers job is to drive the thing as fast as possible, they give feedback on how the car behaves but it's the race engineers job to interpret those comments and adjust the settings accordingly. There aren't that many setups available on here anyway that suit Sport Mode.

Vast majority of people doing that Mini FIA race yesterday won't have looked at this site so how are they meant to know about 1 setup that was suggested on here, many probably didn't even realise you could set the car up differently. That puts the more 'casual' players at an even bigger disadvantage and even if they did see a setup it might not even suit their driving style.

I find it pretty revealing the vast majority of people crying out for setups appear to be somewhere 1-3 seconds off the ultimate pace. Not 'medium' players but guys who are reasonably fast but not quite quick enough. Using the default diff settings as an excuse for lack of pace, it's the same for everyone! I like the fact I know if I'm slower than someone in the same car it's entirely down to just not being fast enough, can't hide behind a feeling that they just had a better setup and not hold myself to account.

 

[SpecMiata-JSW]

I got disconnected

Me too.

Were you in the 9:10 eastern top lobby with me? I think the entire room got disconnected. It was a real bummer as I was fired up to drive the Lexus. Coming from the Porsche, the torque and top end is intoxicating.

I had to wake up super early so the 10:10 race wasn’t a reality for me. No points for me so far this season. Looking forward to Saturday and hopefully a decent connection and result. 👍

 

[adriancr___]

Very surprised about Nations Cup race. I expected a disaster when I saw we had to drive a Mini Cooper but except for a French who pushed me off the track, the race was very fun and intense. I qualified P6 and fought for Top 5 until the incident, but then I dropped to P13 and just could finish the race P10. Respect for the rest of the drivers, who were tough but clean in the battles.

Things were better in Manufacturers Cup. I signed for Mitsubishi and I won the race at Red Bull Ring. After the start (P4 in qualy) I got to be in the front group. When all the drivers pitted I went up to P2, behind a German who had the same strategy as me (non-stop). With 4 laps remaining, he let me pass but he wasn't able to follow my pace, so I won the race. Non-stop was the best strategy in my opinion but maybe that was not possible to do with all the cars

 

[praiano63]

Yes setups exist in real life racing

This is not real life, don't need no engineers at all , settings and physics parameters are a lot more simple in GTS.
If there are not so much setup , it's because they don't allow them in FIA events till now , excepting 1 or 2 time if i remember well.
Most of the GTS players know very well that setup exist, looking at the millions and millions visits that tuning garages have had since GT5 or 6 and now a bit less for GTS.
This is always the same thing , i'm not right and you're not too. They have to offer the option , with or without.
I would love to see in this case how many people would choose one or the other option. That's all

 

[SkyPikmin]

I agree with @Tidgney and @mthomas_95, in my opinion, no setup races are better, because it shows the true potential of the guy behind the wheel, instead of showing that the car that has the better setup is actually faster, no one cares about that. May sound a bit hard but as @mthomas_95 said, i think people who are crying for setups might also be the ones struggling to be on front rows with equal chances for everyone, and also with setups the BoP become quite irrelevant... i would also say that medium tyres are a thing that i find quite bad because as i heard they are useless outside of qualifying session so there is no point adding them, everyone on hards was good, the championship was going the good way (apart from disconections) with new tyre model and penalty system (for everyone crying, the penalties represented the place where in real life you would have been warn by the steward, so no complain on that) but now with setups, useless tyre compounds, and (let's be honest) the fact that there is no reward, even if GT Sport is by far my favorite game at the moment, FIA championships are not really attractive... (getting ready to be roasted by the "racing engineers wannabe")

 

[praiano63]

no one cares about that.

Not sure about this.

FIA championships are not really attractive

What ? So why so much people are racing there ? So much more than any other racing game.

getting ready to be roasted by the "racing engineers wannabe

I'm just a pizzaiolo ! Only roast pizza !

 

[SkyPikmin]

+1
and note that the default setting of many cars are crap
(gearbox and LSD mostly )

They are not bad, they are BoPed, not the same, so if you're slow, it's up to you to work and get your ego down until you find the speed
I was, in GT5 and GT6, far away from the top (and i was using some setups, before you say that i'm happy this way only because now i'm higher in the rankings), and I worked hard to be in the top split, now that everyone has the same stuff to work with i can understand that the guys who were having the master setup that made their car faster than the others and easier to drive are frustrated, but i think it's way better that way

Not sure about this.

What ? So why so much people are racing there ? So much more than any other racing game.

I'm just a pizzaiolo ! Only roast pizza !

When i talked about championship not being attractive now i only talk about the "Exhibition" (only to change name from test season...) this summer championship is the best thing i've ever took part of

 

[ivann]

+ everyone who wants to be competitive will copy/paste the best setup and ta-da.
Useless in my opinion, and could get stupid (anyone remembers Audi R8 tune with front suspensions lifted to max and rear at lowest?).

 

[praiano63]

Audi R8 tune with front suspensions lifted to max and rear at lowest

If you do this in GTS you will go straight in the suzuka turn 1 , even with the Dodge SRT Tomahawk with RSS tires at 10kmh.
I will not argue anymore about this tuning no tuning. I did not start this subject today. I just answer saying that for me , FOR ME , tuning option is leveling the skills of the players , reducing the gaps and turning more competitive and fun any race.
I don't see any fun or satisfaction to master a car just because the settings are crappy.
Just my opinion, as i've already said , i'm not right , but you're not too. Just need to have the option to do it if it's my choice.

 

[DC2_Evan]

I just want to be able to tune to diff to my liking. That's the only thing that should be open for tuning imho. More to suit drive style than for performance

 

[PirovacBoy]

Allowing tuning in FIA Races is not a good idea. It’s not my understanding of fair and equal competition.
It’s ok if it’s allowed and used in open lobbies so everyone who likes tuning, which of course is part of racing, uses it.
But not in official FIA races. The player who gets the best out of a Car which is set up the same for everyone is the most skilled, period.
The problem with tuning in Dalily or FIA Races is the opposite of equal and fair because only the ones having the knowledge how to tune wil have an advantage.

The Casual player wants to jump in and have fun, and the tuner is using an advantage, no that’s not equaling skills, it’s cheating.

Introducing heavy damage is a super thing, i‘m quite sure that in long term it will teach a lot of casual players, but also the elitist ones, how fair and honorable racing works.

 

[praiano63]

Same as playing a football game giving only size 40 shoes for everybody .
It will fit perfect for some few and all the rest will be all 🤬 up.
This is not my vision of equalty. I would not say cheating as you so easily write . Just not fair.

 

[Venster]

Personally adding the different compounds and changing fuel is one of the best things PD have done. I’m not saying it’s perfect yet because it’s not. But it’s going to change up the races. We’ve had fuel saving trains for the past 12 months, we need something different.

I really enjoyed yesterday’s race even though I was punted out to last in a high split lobby. There were so many different strategies running had no idea how it would play out in the end. It actually felt you had options for a change.

Edit - just to add to this, if it were my settings for this race I would dropped the wear rate by 1 or 2, and up the fuel by one. Think it would of balanced the strategies a bit better.

 

[PirovacBoy]

Same as playing a football game giving only size 40 shoes for everybody .
It will fit perfect for some few and all the rest will be all 🤬 up.
This is not my vision of equalty. I would not say cheating as you so easily write . Just not fair.

Praiano, you‘re not right. Don’t mix up analogies like football and shoe size 40 for all. We all have different feet lengths so it’s obvious the ones having 40 will be the ones running up and down for 90 minutes without pain.
But we all have either a wheel or a pad and as long as our wrists/hands or ankles/feet aren’t tied/blocked, it’s the same and equal for all.
Understand?
If the ball is round for all, it’s round for all.
If it’s squared, it should be for all.
That’s why I say tuning is a subjective thing and in the end it’s cheating because we‘re not racing under the same circumstances despite sharing the same track.

 

[Tidgney]

I don't understand your definition of "equal". The fact that you are a superfast skilled driver raise you at the top of the ranking most of the time , together with a few others very fast drivers.
Tuning allowed in the yesterday race just increase the number of drivers in this normally very small elite of GTS racing.
This is my definition of equal !! Tuning don't make already very fast top drivers a lot faster , but adapting a car a certain way that a medium driver is able to catch the pace of a faster pack ahead , because the car is easier , having more battles , turning the contest more interesting because more people involved.....
By the way i've had published a tune for anybody use days before the event. This is a very fair point in my opinion, we can share a tune to let anybody able to have more fun in the race ( catching a fight with normally faster driver put a smile on the face of any normal average player.)
You can't share you're superior skills , not even if you wanted to.
Tuning is not cheating , it's part of racing as skills are since the roman chariot.
A chance that my Red bull race slot yesterday was fantastic and fair. Lot of fun. Even first right turn lap 1 👍

There isn't a true definition of equal as it's an opinion.... Did it really increase the amount of drivers? Do we actually have a figure which shows this? I'd be very interested to see the data (Just generally to be honest) and really, what has my speed got anything to do with it? That's a very silly attitude to take! At the end of the day and I've said this ever since I joined this community and before it, I prefer non setup races because it's equal tools when it comes to the race.. I've even said that about GT5/GT6 having only one-make races in those because then it's equal (even when racing in the same class..). BoP has been a very good addition to the GT Franchise and it's why I'd still want non setup races.

All setup does is INCREASE the times between players? How so? Well the fact you make a car stable doesn't make it faster, most "Aliens" actually want a very pointy car on the very edge because you get round corners quicker and can reduce lap time. If you really want to talk about driver skill, the harder a car is to drive the bigger the gap becomes between bottom and top. Make it pointy? The gap increases..

In a race it can be even worse especially with x13 tyre wear (Or whatever it was)... So now you have to find the setup that uses 0.1/0.2 less tyre wear per lap and suddenly you can have such better tyres than opponents its an easy win! All this while tuning in quite often only GT ways to abuse GT's physics (This is also true to any other racing game, you tune to abuse physics). The fact you were racing an alien or someone you wouldn't isn't necessarily due to your setup, it's because they potentially didn't have a setup,. I've done that before just joined with a stock setup because I either didn't have time, didn't know or the fact it's the MINI and it automatically brings everyone close irrespective of setups.

Racing is for everyone, and as a console racer it should be a pick up and play title, not a tune for 6 hours, hope you've got the best one join the race and find out someone spent 12 hours on their tune and beats you even though potentially you could be the better driver (I mean anyone here as well..). If those top 24 superstar races were setup based I wouldn't have watched them, because I know it's not about driver skill (Which I want to watch). I watch other racing games, games I don't even own if it's about driver skill. The minute I hear about setups I turn off. Yes you shared your setup, doesn't mean it was the best and it doesn't mean 90% of other players used it... I'd certainly stop playing completely if setups started as it's a huge turn off. If they want to go down that route though they need to take hold of Project Cars 2 idea (And F1 2018 I think, don't own it so not 100%) which is make any top 10 time have the ability to download their setup.

Anyway I only posted before this to say why I didn't race.. not sure why you had to open my post up... start an argument then complain that people are arguing over what is essentially an opinion (Equality).

 

[adstomko]

An interesting discussion with regards to FIA races with setup.
In my opinion, GT should avoid the idea of allowing setup changes to official FIA races for a number of reasons.
First of all, GT is not a sim. I believe sims should be the only category of racing which allows one to change setups.
Secondly, not many of us have the time to find the best setup, and it will predominantly benefit those who are part of a racing team. Independent drivers will most likely suffer when it comes to race pace/strategy, because they will probably have no/very few friends of GT to compare their setup with.
I haven't played GT for a while so I haven't been able to try out different formats of races, but I believe tyre compounds should be the only variable that can be changed. Haven't tried out the new fuel algorithm so I can't say whether that should be kept. Also, make qualifying sessions longer!

 

[rono_thomas]

Time is not an argument against tuning.

 

[NommyNom]

Same as playing a football game giving only size 40 shoes for everybody .
It will fit perfect for some few and all the rest will be all 🤬 up.
This is not my vision of equalty. I would not say cheating as you so easily write . Just not fair.

I mostly agree with you with all the points you made on this subject. The minis at tsukuba was fun, I was 2 cars behind you yesterday and the tuning allowed me to keep up with the leaders when usually I am a mid-pack guy. I didn't know people were sharing tunes anywhere, I saw a few minis with jacked up noses and was wondering where that came from, but i did my own tuning and allowed me a good finish which was great.

Personally, I enjoyed both sides of of this. Racing Gr3/4 all on stock tune kept it "even", the main challenge being each driver adapting to forced settings. Now it adds a different element; testing players "tuning" skills. I don't know if it makes it more equal, but allowing certain players to make micro-adjustments tailored to their driving style definitely helps with competition and allowing more of what we all love: good racing fights. Honestly though, tuning helps and I'm glad it's allowed. METAs will still be around but seeing how tunes perform is interesting.

edit; clean racing fights of course

 

[Venster]

Time is not an argument against tuning.

I understand what your saying because the person with more time to tune has more time to practice with a stock setup race so gains that way.

But it is a factor, myself I don’t get a great deal of time to practice if I have to then factor in doing a tune as well it cuts down that time even more, so I’m potentially worse off.

 

[bloodyboyblue]

Time is not an argument against tuning.

Agree completely there, I hate/know nothing about tuning so I only take other people’s (Praino’s 99% of the time) setups, and actually if you have limited time to practice it usually takes fewer laps to hit your prime lap time with the tune than it does stock since the car handles better, in theory.

That said, I’ve always been anti-tuning, it takes the fun out of racing and equality is key.

 

[rono_thomas]

I understand what your saying because the person with more time to tune has more time to practice with a stock setup race so gains that way.

But it is a factor, myself I don’t get a great deal of time to practice if I have to then factor in doing a tune as well it cuts down that time even more, so I’m potentially worse off.

Versus the person who has no time to practice at all you would potentially be better.

Agree completely there, I hate/know nothing about tuning so I only take other people’s (Praino’s 99% of the time) setups, and actually if you have limited time to practice it usually takes fewer laps to hit your prime lap time with the tune than it does stock since the car handles better, in theory.

That said, I’ve always been anti-tuning, it takes the fun out of racing and equality is key.

Then perfect equality would be to keep everthing hidden, 10 mins practice, 10 mins qually then race. (Can you imagine the turn 1 myahem )

 

[bloodyboyblue]

Versus the person who has no time to practice at all you would potentially be better.



Then perfect equality would be to keep everthing hidden, 10 mins practice, 10 mins qually then race. (Can you imagine the turn 1 myahem )

That would be my dream. Hopefully that’s what PD does when they make a game with procedurally generated cars and tracks

 

[praiano63]

There isn't a true definition of equal

Not true for you.

That's a very silly attitude

Thanks to respect my opinion, it's as valid as your .

Well the fact you make a car stable doesn't make it faster

I've never said this , not in this way , just more regular , a great behavior for who don't have aliens skills and want to be part of the race without spinning due to a stupid LSD setting for example.

very pointy car on the very edge

I hate this kind of cars , this is the alien's definition of tuning . Not mine.

not sure why you had to open my post up... start an argument then complain that people are arguing over what is essentially an opinion (Equality).

I'm complaining ?? Not at all ! I've just expressed my thought about tuning in FIA races , anybody have the right to agree or not. But nobody can say i'm wrong categorically. I've asked about an optional open tuning race. That's all.

Anyway , my point of view is as good as any other around here. Writing in english to express myself is not an easy task, end of the bla blafor today for me.

Have a good day everybody.

 

[Lord Protector]

If time is a proper argument for not allowing tuning, then time trial qualifying for dailies should be banned as well. I almost never race dailies because I just can’t get myself into trial-and-error perfect lapping, possibly even exploiting corner-cut penalties...

I’m not willing to spend hours trying to perfect my lap.

That said, I have no problem tuning LSD and downforce which takes considerably less time. Other things I do not care.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Tuning would be good if it acted in a realistic manner in this game. Although building and setting a car can be very tedious and extremely complicated in real life, it would still be much more simple to do a good setup in the game with the limited amount of parameters we can tweak, because you could actually look for stuff on internet or in books, and expect logic reactions from any tweak you make in game. Currently, this is not the case - well, it is to an extent, but then some things that should not work in real life will do wonders in GT : in real life, if you walk past the edge of a cliff, you fall and die. In GT, you can just keep walking past the edge of that cliff and live.

This makes setups races in GT just a matter of finding and using exploits. Yes, it is built into the game's engine like that, so some people probably won't have any problem with that. I do, because not only it gets very unrealistic sometimes and takes away from the simulation side GT wants to promote, but also because it breaks some game mechanics. That's a shame because tuning done right can actually help tgetting towards a more equal competition by allowing drivers to adjust the car a bit to their driving style. Those exploits completely void that, because you have to use them in order to reach top times, and this is not how real life works.

What could work in GT is light tuning, like only allowing camber, alignment and aero if available (Bump / travel would be good as well but I think it's one of the things that is subject to exploits). Basically that's what you can tune in real life in one make races : you get the same single set of springs as everyone else, no adjustable diff... Some series can add ride height but the way it works with suspension travel and the lack of bottoming in GT makes it a definite no in-game.

 

[Matty28]

looking at the standings, is there a UK boycott that I've missed? the top places are riddled by the french!!

I also boycotted it because it had open setups and it looks like pretty much everyone else did. Loads of people up in the top 20 I haven't seen that far up ever. The highest scoring lobby was a measly 2381 lol. Plus, it's off season so participation is bound to drop a bit.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Time is not an argument against tuning.

Disagree completely. Time is a finite resource for everyone and people are only willing to devote so much of it. Yes, tuning does eliminate an option but it also means focusing on driving with what you're given.

With tuning, that means I have to run laps, change settings, run more laps, change settings and so on. Even if someone else provides a tune, it may not suit me at all, I have to tweak it or I have to abandon it if another tune is available. Grant you, real motorsport teams go through this but we don't have that same level of support. Not even close. For many of us, we have schooling and/or real jobs to worry about as well.

If PD wants to maximize the amount of participants in FIA races, then they're better off having it so that preparation time is on the lower end. I'd be more open to something like several stock choices (etc: soft/med/hard suspension) but there is such a thing as too many options.

 

[Tidgney]

Not true for you.

Thanks to respect my opinion, it's as valid as your .

I've never said this , not in this way , just more regular , a great behavior for who don't have aliens skills and want to be part of the race without spinning due to a stupid LSD setting for example.

I hate this kind of cars , this is the alien's definition of tuning . Not mine.

I'm complaining ?? Not at all ! I've just expressed my thought about tuning in FIA races , anybody have the right to agree or not. But nobody can say i'm wrong categorically. I've asked about an optional open tuning race. That's all.

Anyway , my point of view is as good as any other around here. Writing in english to express myself is not an easy task, end of the bla blafor today for me.

Have a good day everybody.

Taking small parts of a paragraph is again silly, at least quote the whole sentence.. I never said I didn't respect your opinion or said my version of equal is right.. I literally said I didn't race because I like races to be equal (As in my opinion of equal), you jumped on that to try force your opinion across, which was obviously different to mine.

I said your attitude to say my definition of equal is wrong because I'm fast is silly, and guess what in my opinion it is silly to have that mind set. Whether I'm fast or slow, I've always had (If you had quoted the rest) the same opinion ever since GT5 when I raced online, ask anyone I've raced since I played Gran Turismo online. I also have that same opinion on any other game to.

I never said your complaining about tuning either I said your complaining about other people disagreeing with the fact you said it does equalise everybody. They're entitled to an opinion to believe it or not, I mean you keep posting that in every post.

Honestly these kinds of posts literally....