Formula 1 2018 Honda Japanese Grand PrixFormula 1 

  • Thread starter Dennisch
  • 179 comments
  • 6,828 views
407
Saudi Arabia
Hofuf
Fishylocked
No body could have predicted when is the rain was going to get heavier. It was a matter of seconds, had it started 15-20 seconds earlier, everybody will be saying wow they have got it right!

Stop the hate!
 
22,532
United States
Arizona
HamiltonMP427
No body could have predicted when is the rain was going to get heavier. It was a matter of seconds, had it started 15-20 seconds earlier, everybody will be saying wow they have got it right!

Stop the hate!

Not hate, but hey why think with rational when you can get emotional.

As for the strategy, Ferrari as shown had the best track position, and Mercedes were able to along with others call the right strategy. Vettel had a chance to make up the mistake and screwed it up still. This is the reality of things, don't conflate that with hate.
 
6,063
Palestine
Palestine
BALD_GYE
No body could have predicted when is the rain was going to get heavier. It was a matter of seconds, had it started 15-20 seconds earlier, everybody will be saying wow they have got it right!

Stop the hate!

Everyone else could see the track was dry enough for slicks... rain was due later on in Q3 so why risk the opener on Inters when you could get a dry banker?

That said, Ferrari never had the pace of the Merc and even in slightly damp conditions you’d have to give the edge to Lewis anyway.


If Lewis wins and Vettel gets no points, can we get a repeat of last year with the title being won at Mexico?
 
938
Switzerland
Zürich
No body could have predicted when is the rain was going to get heavier. It was a matter of seconds, had it started 15-20 seconds earlier, everybody will be saying wow they have got it right!

Stop the hate!

All the teams have Doppler Radar piped to their displays, which shows the position, progression, and intensity of the rain. It's very very good. Good enough to show where on the track it's raining, and by how much. It's relatively easy to predict fairly accurately where, when, and how much it will rain within a 10 to 15 minute window - longer if you're just looking for general indication.

It's not hate at all. Ferrari had the information, didn't use it, and therefore screwed up on that count. Vettel then made a mistake which compounded the error, hence he's way back down the grid.
 
407
Saudi Arabia
Hofuf
Fishylocked
Not hate, but hey why think with rational when you can get emotional.

As for the strategy, Ferrari as shown had the best track position, and Mercedes were able to along with others call the right strategy. Vettel had a chance to make up the mistake and screwed it up still. This is the reality of things, don't conflate that with hate.
It's rational, Vettel's attempt was on an increasingly wet track at the worst time possible on slicks, even in case he made the lap, he would 5th at best. While not denying that Merc are doing the better job in "off track activities" denying the fact they were "lucky " more than one occasion is emotional.
 
6,063
Palestine
Palestine
BALD_GYE
It's rational, Vettel's attempt was on an increasingly wet track at the worst time possible on slicks, even in case he made the lap, he would 5th at best. While not denying that Merc are doing the better job in "off track activities" denying the fact they were "lucky " more than one occasion is emotional.
This is an incorrect assessment. Vettel was on the right tyres at the right time, he simply ran too deep at Degna 2 and Spoon.
 

Stotty

My other car's a Porsche
Premium
8,642
United Kingdom
London
GTP_Stotty
When vettel went off at spoon it was dry. Commentators just said vettel had the best conditions of Q3 for that lap.

Ferrari made the wrong tyre choice, and vettel then messed up his 1 lap chance.

Not hating, just facts.
 
407
Saudi Arabia
Hofuf
Fishylocked
All the teams have Doppler Radar piped to their displays, which shows the position, progression, and intensity of the rain. It's very very good. Good enough to show where on the track it's raining, and by how much. It's relatively easy to predict fairly accurately where, when, and how much it will rain within a 10 to 15 minute window - longer if you're just looking for general indication.

It's not hate at all. Ferrari had the information, didn't use it, and therefore screwed up on that count. Vettel then made a mistake which compounded the error, hence he's way back down the grid.

Yet, you could never predict weather, and it was a matter of seconds as I said . You will never get 100% accuracy in those circumstances.
 

niky

Karma Chameleon
Moderator
23,800
Philippines
Philippines
New team sponsor of Oroblram Scuderia Ferrari.

Honestly, whatever gave you that idea...
upload_2018-10-6_15-43-28.jpeg

The Mission Winnow site is all headache-inducing doublespeak. Wish I'd get paid that much for writing absolute gibberish.

What a tremendous muck-up that Q3 was. They didn't even split qualifying strategies for the two drivers, just in case it was dry enough for a banker lap on slicks (and when everyone else is going out on slicks, that should give you a clue it was).

Vettel can obviously claw his way back up to fourth or third... but barring any major disaster for Mercedes, that points gap is going to extend further tomorrow.

Wonder if Max is going to be feeling lucky off the line. He's got nothing to lose, and he'll be hoping Lewis will be playing it safe.
 
407
Saudi Arabia
Hofuf
Fishylocked
When vettel went off at spoon it was dry. Commentators just said vettel had the best conditions of Q3 for that lap.

Ferrari made the wrong tyre choice, and vettel then messed up his 1 lap chance.

Not hating, just facts.

Only the Merc and few others got the optimum condition, the Red Bull and the sister Ferrari were about 1.5 seconds slower. I know Kimi is not as quick, but you should except him to be closer at least.
 
938
Switzerland
Zürich
Yet, you could never predict weather, and it was a matter of seconds as I said . You will never get 100% accuracy in those circumstances.

That's exactly what Doppler Radar enables you to do - I use a commercial less accurate version on my smartphone pretty frequently, It's easily good enough for me to time whatever journey I'm going make to ensure that I don't get wet - even down to a 5 minute gap in the rain. So far it's worked wonderfully.
 
6,063
Palestine
Palestine
BALD_GYE
Also worth pointing out that Vettel’s race is made extra difficult because he’s starting on the super softs rather than both Mercs on the softs.

He should be quicker than the cars around him, but he’s not exactly the best when he’s got a good start around slight slower cars into turn one...
 
407
Saudi Arabia
Hofuf
Fishylocked
That's exactly what Doppler Radar enables you to do - I use a commercial less accurate version on my smartphone pretty frequently, It's easily good enough for me to time whatever journey I'm going make to ensure that I don't get wet - even down to a 5 minute gap in the rain. So far it's worked wonderfully.
Then tell me why everyone got it wrong in Hungary at Q2 except for Ferrari who went out in intermediate instead of slicks and that was the right call? Imagine that session is today's Q3 session. Everyone will be praising Ferrari by now.
 

niky

Karma Chameleon
Moderator
23,800
Philippines
Philippines
Funny.

I didn't notice, but someone in our local discussion group noted that the Mercs were on inters before the start of Q3. Once Ferrari went out on track, the slicks went back on.

-

Not sure if true, but it would be a hilarious way for Ferrari to have lost that qualifying battle.
 
6,063
Palestine
Palestine
BALD_GYE
Funny.

I didn't notice, but someone in our local discussion group noted that the Mercs were on inters before the start of Q3. Once Ferrari went out on track, the slicks went back on.

-

Not sure if true, but it would be a hilarious way for Ferrari to have lost that qualifying battle.
I’d heard the same.

Also Ted reported that Merc and Ferrari slapped on the inters at the same time ~3 mins before the start of the session and at the last minute Merc swapped them for Supers.

So I’m not sure it was a bluff, just Ferrari forgot to check the forecast just before the start
 
406
Australia
Melbourne
TakFR

Ricciardo screaming on his way back to the garage after his car failed in Q2 :(

It really hurts to see this reaction from him, especially since it's so out of character
 
Last edited:
3,591
Netherlands
Middelburg
Funny.

I didn't notice, but someone in our local discussion group noted that the Mercs were on inters before the start of Q3. Once Ferrari went out on track, the slicks went back on.

-

Not sure if true, but it would be a hilarious way for Ferrari to have lost that qualifying battle.
Not sure if I saw it right*, but it looked like the tire warmers/covers were with a green stripe but the actual tires were slicks

* it was very early in the morning so I was still a bit sleepy ;)

In general: yes great strategy of Ferrari again...Part of extra stress factor? You would expect better from a professional team with a very long history.
Feel sorry for Ricciardo. Especially with the knowledge this engine brand will be his future. So he cannot complain in public about that engine failure. Altough that scream says enough.
Max did mention it over the radio: "same engine stuttering again" but he completed his quali with a good P3.
 

Touring Mars

Moderator
24,863
United Kingdom
Glasgow, UK
GTP_Mars
Funny.

I didn't notice, but someone in our local discussion group noted that the Mercs were on inters before the start of Q3. Once Ferrari went out on track, the slicks went back on.

-

Not sure if true, but it would be a hilarious way for Ferrari to have lost that qualifying battle.
Indeed - Lewis had inters on at the start of Q3 but switched to drys...

Ferrari are a shambles at the moment.
 
22,532
United States
Arizona
HamiltonMP427
It's rational, Vettel's attempt was on an increasingly wet track at the worst time possible on slicks, even in case he made the lap, he would 5th at best. While not denying that Merc are doing the better job in "off track activities" denying the fact they were "lucky " more than one occasion is emotional.

That's not at all true and is very disingenuous. Mercedes have done a better job with strategy and advancement of their car, all teams have had some benefit of luck but the main reason for Mercedes being better than Ferrari in the second half is that simple. They're just better.
 
20,678
TenEightyOne
TenEightyOne
Then tell me why everyone got it wrong in Hungary at Q2 except for Ferrari who went out in intermediate instead of slicks and that was the right call? Imagine that session is today's Q3 session. Everyone will be praising Ferrari by now.

If my Aunty had balls, etc. etc.

Even Vettel noted "it's too dry" before even leaving the pit lane. Ferrari got it very wrong when every other team in the session got it right. If a slower team try something radical (as with STR earlier this season, I forget when) and it goes wrong then they had nothing to lose. Ferrari are not in that position and have to get it right.
 
938
Switzerland
Zürich
...Feel sorry for Ricciardo. Especially with the knowledge this engine brand will be his future. So he cannot complain in public about that engine failure...

I was under the impression that the Renualt C spec engine, that RIC‘s using, was still a work in progress, in which case you should kind of know you‘re taking a gamble by running it.

That said I totally understand his frustration.
 

Dennisch

Humongous member
Premium
28,716
Netherlands
Hilversum
Dennisch
When Max had all the technical issues it was because of Max pushing the car over the limits, and now that Ricciardo has the problems.... It's definitely the car and not the driver.