Forza 6 Gameplay videos

[Hillcrest34]

The console sim racing community is more vile then the PC racing sim community? hah.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

Fair enough, though I think your attitude to anyone who disagrees with you kinda backs my statement up

What you pointed out is subjective what is a fact is that PCars has empty and lifeless tracks in comparison to Forza with lower quality environment details.

Honestly the trees, barriers and track detail looks so much better. All of forza's detail looks very flat and downgraded to maximize FR. I'll take less trackside elements such as crappy crowds and tents and super inflatable arm waving men for a much more detailed base look. Also FMs lighting is utterly terrible.

Let's say you're right about there being a lot more going on, it still runs at 30% less pixel count than Forza 6 while still struggling in extreme conditions to stay at 60 fps with less cars on track.

True, the resolution and the frame rate is less and I'd argue thats more to do with hardware limitations of the XBONE than pcars devs. Like I said before the detail in Pcars is much greater than in forza and lacks the optimisation smoothing that forza has. The fact it can even hit 60FPS and not dip below 30 is pretty good

You can't say "it's opinion" and then say "its a no brainer Pcars>Forza"; if it was a no brainer than everyone would agree with you on it.

In my opinion it's a no brainer whats better, a lot of other people that i've spoken too agree with me

Forza wheel feel is as good as PCars.

Going to strongly disagree with you here, Pcars doesn't have forza's little deadzone

Edit for elaboration: I just can't stand playing Forza with a wheel. Every single other game out there I can't stand playing with a pad but forza just feels so lifeless and wrong with a wheel. It feels like the wheel isn't even properly supported and is just tacked on there because it's a racing game. Cockpit view is horrible, the 180 degrees of wheel motion is highly off putting, there's the deadzones and force feedback doesn't even feel right, Forza feels like clipping central. It's actually my most hated thing about the entire franchise, no FM game to me has ever felt good with a wheel

 

[FordGTGuy]

Well I'm glad we've been able to air out everyone's opinions on why Forza sucks with the wheel and is an arcade game.

Can we get back to Forza 6 gameplay videos now?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

You just said... let me make sure that I have this one clear...

Project Cars, the game made by Slightly Mad Studios, has better controller support than Forza Motorsport 6? Project Cars is absolutely awful with a controller while Forza is known for being one of the best controller racers to ever be made.

Please enlighten us on these 30Hz tricks that have tricked Digital Foundry and the gaming community at large since Forza Motorsport 2. If you're referring to replays, cutscenes or anything that isn't actual gameplay being 30 fps... you can just go ahead and not reply.

Yes, it has good adjustability in steering options so you can drive how you want to and also great with a wheel too.

Steering in Forza seems flawed for many iterations of the game now, they really need to get it sorted. Probably need a fundamental rework of physics and steering control for both wheel and controller. Game doesn't seem designed to work with Simulation steering which is why probably Normal is default for Veteran preset. Driving Simulation steering shows weak points of how current steering system behaves, you don't feel at one with the steering and really hard to correct slides and feel like a bit of a passenger hoping the steering acknowledges that you want to turn into corner before it is too late. I think I read on hear that on some corners it doesn't even turn in FM5 at racing speed? FM6 feels very similar in controls for me and still have same issues as I did with FM5.

About 30Hz trick, Digital Foundry also mention about this in Forza 5. Surely you must know about this already as you seem to follow the series very closely?:

Much of this has a knock-on-effect with cockpit reflections too, where the front window now mirrors your dashboard and hand motions under the right lighting conditions. One camera view switch away is the bonnet perspective, where all world details are also kept fully intact - even down to the UI elements hovering over AI cars. And as usual for the series, these reflective surfaces operate at half the game's typical refresh when under load, giving us a 30fps update that matches the rear and side-view mirrors.

All games use optimization tricks like that, for example transparencies always run at a much lower resolution than the overall frame, so for example having smoke that runs at 240p in GT5, does this mean that GT5 is a 240p game?

It is like slowdowns, Forza chooses what part it slows down while other racing games don't seem to, well at least to the extent Forza does.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Yes, it has good adjustability in steering options so you can drive how you want to and also great with a wheel too.

Steering in Forza seems flawed for many iterations of the game now, they really need to get it sorted. Probably need a fundamental rework of physics and steering control for both wheel and controller. Game doesn't seem designed to work with Simulation steering which is why probably Normal is default for Veteran preset. Driving Simulation steering shows weak points of how current steering system behaves, you don't feel at one with the steering and really hard to correct slides and feel like a bit of a passenger hoping the steering acknowledges that you want to turn into corner before it is too late. I think I read on hear that on some corners it doesn't even turn in FM5 at racing speed? FM6 feels very similar in controls for me and still have same issues as I did with FM5.

If you can't correct slides with simulation experience, that has to do with your own experience and skill with driving on that setting. I've been using simulation steering since its implementation on both the wheel and controller and it feels better and controls better for me.

About 30Hz trick, Digital Foundry also mention about this in Forza 5. Surely you must know about this already as you seem to follow the series very closely?:

It is like slowdowns, Forza chooses what part it slows down while other racing games don't seem to, well at least to the extent Forza does.

That isn't a "trick" it's a decision made for the game that they are up front about, the gameplay itself is 60 fps and that's what matters.

Can we get back to gameplay videos now?

 

[PzR Slim]

playing with a gamepad here.

And that is where the discussion ends.

 

[FordGTGuy]

And that is where the discussion ends.

And the arrogance begins.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

If you can't correct slides with simulation experience, that has to do with your own experience and skill with driving on that setting. I've been using simulation steering since its implementation on both the wheel and controller and it feels better and controls better for me.

Good for you but I struggle too much so that puts me off the game. Hopefully next game sorts it out.

That isn't a "trick" it's a decision made for the game that they are up front about, the gameplay itself is 60 fps and that's what matters.

Don't see anywhere where they are being upfront about that?

Can we get back to gameplay videos now?

Yes.

 

[PzR Slim]

And the arrogance begins.

Absolutely not. You can't possibly fully understand the physics engine of any game if you are playing it with a device that gives you zero feedback. So much of driving a car has to do with what you feel.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Absolutely not. You can't possibly fully understand the physics engine of any game if you are playing it with a device that gives you zero feedback. So much of driving a car has to do with what you feel.

Except he isn't the only one the feels the way he does, I do too; I have a wheel.

Also for a game on a console that is 99% controller played, it is up to the developer to properly translate the physics engine to the controller. If you can get zero idea for the way the physics engine works with the controller than that is the failure of the developer.

Don't see anywhere where they are being upfront about that?

They've never hidden the fact that it does or lied about it saying it was anything else beyond what it is.

Yes.

I am so glad we can now agree to stop derailing the thread.

 

[FordGTGuy]

double post.

 

[PzR Slim]

Except he isn't the only one the feels the way he does, I do too; I have a wheel.

You also stated up thread that you played games like AC, Race 07, GTR2. I can't believe anyone who has played such games would put Forza physics over PCars physics. It's really not even close. I'm not knocking Forza physics. I've loved the franchise since the very beginning. They just go a slightly more simcade route than others choose to, nothing wrong with that, I hugely enjoy that type of game. But lets not kid ourselves here to try and prove 'my' game is better. Neither is better, they are both different and do some things better than the other.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

They've never hidden the fact that it does or lied about it saying it was anything else beyond what it is.



I am so glad we can now agree to stop derailing the thread.

Don't think they have ever mentioned about so that is not exactly upfront about it. Anyway will try and figure out how to record stuff from demo for longer and upload something to post here.

 

[FordGTGuy]

It's really not even close.

The smugness is outstanding.

Don't think they have ever mentioned about so that is not exactly upfront about it. Anyway will try and figure out how to record stuff from demo for longer and upload something to post here.

How many articles have you read about the framerate of side view mirrors on cars in games? It's not exactly a hot topic and something that most people don't care about considering everything else the game is doing and that it is running at 60 fps locked.

 

[SimTourist]

It is like slowdowns, Forza chooses what part it slows down while other racing games don't seem to, well at least to the extent Forza does.

So what do you choose, slowing down the part of the screen that you glance over briefly to see if anyone is behind, or the main screen where you focus is for 99% of the time? Just because rear view mirrors run at 30 fps doesn't mean the game is running at 30, just like 240p smoke doesn't mean the game is running at 240p.

In my opinion it's a no brainer whats better, a lot of other people that i've spoken too agree with me

How many of these people have actually driven forza and not just pcars fanboys?

Absolutely not. You can't possibly fully understand the physics engine of any game if you are playing it with a device that gives you zero feedback. So much of driving a car has to do with what you feel.

Just because pcars has crappy gamepad feedback doesn't mean forza does, where pcars feels flat and empty, forza gives you full information on the limit of traction, wheelspin, rumble strips, revs and brakes locking up through the controller, while the wheel is preferable, saying that you get no feedback from the controller is wrong.

 

[FordGTGuy]

So what do you choose, slowing down the part of the screen that you glance over briefly to see if anyone is behind, or the main screen where you focus is for 99% of the time? Just because rear view mirrors run at 30 fps doesn't mean the game is running at 30, just like 240p smoke doesn't mean the game is running at 240p.

How many of these people have actually driven forza and not just pcars fanboys?

Just because pcars has crappy gamepad feedback doesn't mean forza does, where pcars feels flat and empty, forza gives you full information on the limit of traction, wheelspin, rumble strips, revs and brakes locking up through the controller, while the wheel is preferable, saying that you get no feedback from the controller is wrong.

Honestly, what's even the point of releasing your game on a console where 99% of the community uses controllers when you get zero sense of the physics from a controller?

 

[PzR Slim]

Just because pcars has crappy gamepad feedback doesn't mean forza does, where pcars feels flat and empty, forza gives you full information on the limit of traction, wheelspin, rumble strips, revs and brakes locking up through the controller, while the wheel is preferable, saying that you get no feedback from the controller is wrong.

You're using a control device that is giving you no feeling of the forces coming through the steering rack. You're also playing a game that is 'interpreting' your inputs, changing them to suit what it thinks is best and applying them to the car. You can't possibly give a detailed comparison of the two physics engines via a gamepad.

 

[SimTourist]

You're using a control device that is giving you no feeling of the forces coming through the steering rack. You're also playing a game that is 'interpreting' your inputs, changing them to suit what it thinks is best and applying them to the car. You can't possibly give a detailed comparison of the two physics engines via a gamepad.

God, so much wrong with this post. I won't even bother.

 

[PzR Slim]

The smugness is outstanding.

You addressed the points I made fantastically. Well done.

 

[PzR Slim]

God, so much wrong with this post. I won't even bother.

Please do.

 

[FordGTGuy]

You're using a control device that is giving you no feeling of the forces coming through the steering rack. You're also playing a game that is 'interpreting' your inputs, changing them to suit what it thinks is best and applying them to the car. You can't possibly give a detailed comparison of the two physics engines via a gamepad.

You can definitely get a feel for a physics engine with a controller by watching how a car responds to your input. The rumble triggers actually do a fantastic job on Forza of relaying feedback in a number of ways to tell you how your car is responding to your input.

You can definitely say that it's easier and you get a lot more feeling with a wheel but to say that you get absolutely no idea of a games physics from a controller is just disingenuous.

Again, if you need a wheel to even feel them on PCars...... what's the point? On console barely anyone has a wheel compared to those that use controllers.

You addressed the points I made fantastically. Well done.

You're the one that made the claims here bud.

 

[PzR Slim]

You can definitely get a feel for a physics engine with a controller by watching how a car responds to your input. The rumble triggers actually do a fantastic job on Forza of relaying feedback in a number of ways to tell you how your car is responding to your input.

You can definitely say that it's easier and you get a lot more feeling with a wheel but to say that you get absolutely no idea of a games physics from a controller is just disingenuous.

I haven't once said you can't get a feel for it. You can but to make a detailed comparison of the two you need to be using a wheel in my opinion. With a gamepad the game is giving you lots of assistance in interpreting your inputs and changing them to suit the situation. You said it yourself up thread. Forza is much better with a wheel than with a gamepad. I fully agree with that. Any sim game is better with a wheel for obvious reasons and hence why I say comparing the physics engines of two game with a gamepad is not a very good way to do it.

Once again let me reiterate. This is not about PCars being better than Forza because it has a better physics engine. They are two different games, trying to do different things and both succeeding. I'd like to see both implement features of the other to give us a truly unbelievable game. Until that happens I'll keep enjoying both.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I haven't once said you can't get a feel for it.

Absolutely not. You can't possibly fully understand the physics engine of any game if you are playing it with a device that gives you zero feedback. So much of driving a car has to do with what you feel.

I am no longer going to even continue this discussion, please get back on topic.

 

[PzR Slim]

I am no longer going to even continue this discussion, please get back on topic.

Two entirely different points. Does a gamepad have a ffb motor in it? And I'm not talking about rumble motors which don't give you real ffb. Meaning you get no real feedback with a gamepad hence why I said 'zero feedback'. However, yes with a game pad you can get a feel for how the car responds to your inputs even though they are altered by the game to make it playable. You can also use visual cues to see what is happening with the physics model. That is entirely different and not as good a method to make a comparison as feeling the forces on the steering rack and car as you get with the ffb motor in a steering wheel.

 

[Hillcrest34]

How many of these people have actually driven forza and not just pcars fanboys?

All of them, all from my league which dates back to FM2. Pcars is the first game we have ran serious events on that wasn't a forza game.

We're going back to FM though on release and Pcars has become a pc only thing for me

 

[Spitty]

You're using a control device that is giving you no feeling of the forces coming through the steering rack. You're also playing a game that is 'interpreting' your inputs, changing them to suit what it thinks is best and applying them to the car. You can't possibly give a detailed comparison of the two physics engines via a gamepad.

Basically you're talking about Force Feedback all the time, obviously it won't be the same feedback you'll get when you compare two different sims. Physics however can be judged with any input device.
Sorry, but using a different toy to play your game doesn't make the physics more realistic.
Btw there is no steering rack in your Gaming wheel, unless you have to make wheel allignments to your television.
You should change the blinker fluid from time to time though.

 

[PzR Slim]

Basically you're talking about Force Feedback all the time, obviously it won't be the same feedback you'll get when you compare two different sims. Physics however can be judged with any input device.
Sorry, but using a different toy to play your game doesn't make the physics more realistic.
Btw there is no steering rack in your Gaming wheel, unless you have to make wheel allignments to your television.
You should change the blinker fluid from time to time though.

Of course there is no steering rack in my wheel, that's just stupid. However, the rotational forces that are felt in a real car steering wheel can be simulated in my toy wheel but not my toy gamepad. I didn't claim the physics where more realistic because I play with a wheel. I was saying that judging the physics with a wheel was better than trying to judge them with a gamepad.

And you're right, I'm completely blinkered because I have negative things to say about Forza. Check my posting history and see all the positive things I have to say about it. There really is only one group of people in this discussion who have the blinkers on, those who can't accept any criticism of 'their' game

 

[Hillcrest34]

There really is only one group of people in this discussion who have the blinkers on, those who can't accept any criticism of 'their' game

This!!!! Is it so wrong to criticize the game so that it can be improved!

 

[daan]

I am no longer going to even continue this discussion, please get back on topic.

Why don't you follow your own advice?

Yes, you post videos, but you also contribute to, and sometimes even start, the off-topic discussion

 

[HAL20XX]

Anyone looking for footage of COTA can find it in the ISRTV 2-hour video posted above. It's about 2/3 of the way in if I remember correctly. I think Darin is in love with his new co-host

As far as the controller vs wheel debate, I've played every Forza with a controller, switching to a wheel about 5 months after FM5 was released. The controller simply does not translate as much information as a wheel. A controller vibrating at just beyond the peak of traction vs. losing resistance in a wheel are completely different experiences. On a wheel, the first thing that happens is you're going to briefly turn the wheel further into the turn (you're physically pushing the wheel in this direction). On a controller, the only resistance you're fighting against is the spring in the analog stick which has zero bearing on what the tires are actually doing.

 

[McLaren]

I actually came into the thread to
FM has always had simcade physics, it's always been about on a par with GT games. If it was meant to be a proper sim it wouldn't have rewind. It's meant to be an approachable sim type game, like GT.

I agree that PCars is on another level, sim wise. But, I don't know why Forza's rewind is always used as the argument that it's not a proper sim; I think the other areas of the physics engine would argue that point better, not a feature you can turn off.

If PCars had rewind, I wouldn't consider it any less of a nice, full simulator. /shrug