Gran Turismo 6 vs Forza Motorsport 5-Test Drive SRT 2013@Bathurst

[SlipZtrEm]

I don't think the rear wheel lift is common on street tires / stock car.

It's incredibly common with (stock) hot hatches, primarily due to suspension design.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Tested out the Abarth. I WAS able to get it to lift off oversteer. Though it was harder to reproduce than it probably should be. I can try another FWD car that's faster.

Was that stock rubber/flat track/no tune?

 

[phosphor112]

I tried it with stock everything except CH tires, but I was able to do it with CS tires ("stock") as well. I'm on Route X. Just doing it on the flat parts.

EDIT: Aids are off.

EDIT 2: For the life of me I can't get the car to lift it's rear tire into a turn. Maybe if I was going over a rumble strip!? Seems like the stock suspensions have too much travel.

EDIT 3: Nope still can't. Though the lift off oversteer is easier with stiffer suspensions, probably because it's easier to get the G-forces to transfer from side to side.

 

[Imari]

That's an Abarth 500 right ? The stock spring rate is quite soft IRL with only slightly stiffer rear, and the Abarth suffers a lot from front end dive under heavy braking and body roll. I don't think the rear wheel lift is common on street tires / stock car.

Type R Civics will do it.
Golf GTis will do it.
Clios will do it.
Focuses will do it.

That's just the ones I know of. As Slip says, most hot hatches will do it if pushed hard enough.



That's the Clio, see at about a minute in. Top Gear also has a bit where they do it with a Civic. EP3 from memory, but I could be wrong. I think the bit is them reviewing the FN2 and comparing.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Thanks guys, I have been watching a lot of FF cars being thrown around at the track and rarely seen them doing it and as far as I can remember, I hardly seen Best Motoring videos ( driver) pushing hard FF cars ( Civic, CRX, Integra ) at track lifting the rear wheel on entry.

 

[1241Penguin]

Thanks guys, I have been watching a lot of FF cars being thrown around at the track and rarely seen them doing it and as far as I can remember, I hardly seen Best Motoring videos ( driver) pushing hard FF cars ( Civic, CRX, Integra ) at track lifting the rear wheel on entry.

Check out the beginning.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

As I said, I didn't say it's not possible, just rarely seen it - not on every corner entry I think may have missed them more often as I have a lot of BM and Hot Version videos. Maybe most of the FF cars I've watched were tuned and fitted with S tires. Originally, I was curious about Abarth 500, seems odd in AC it can lift the rear with relative ease, has anyone seen it happen IRL ?

Happened on my F40 replica in GT6 ( CS )

And this is hilarious : Stock Vitz on CH tire, lots of body roll

ENTRY ( didn't look if the rear lifted or not )

THEN .....

 

[shved111]

 

[ron86]

Wow, seems like every single wheel is lifted in the FM5 shot

 

[ralph89]

^^^ haha!!

 

[Zelalem]

@shved111
Your comparisons are bad, because you don't know the speed of those cars in the pictures.

Wow, seems like every single wheel is lifted in the FM5 shot

haha

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Does the speed really matters ? I mean, how quick can the Golf enter a corner IRL with the rear lifted and not loses control ? The FM5 body roll is quite close to the real car picture. The real question is how hard the FM5 car is thrown into a corner ? Was it enough ? Was the car stock and have street tire ?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Does the speed really matters ? I mean, how quick can the Golf enter a corner IRL with the rear lifted and not loses control ? The FM5 body roll is quite close to the real car picture. The real question is how hard the FM5 car is thrown into a corner ? Was it enough ? Was the car stock and have street tire ?

VW's in particular are known for that massive rear wheel lift and it's perfectly controllable so long as you get the entry speed right, same as any other car.

Are you referring to this VW in Forza? That doesn't look right to me. The inside front tire is also off the ground and about the same amount as the rear tire, the kind of thing that might happen if you put tires on that were way too grippy and a very stiff suspension.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

VW's in particular are known for that massive rear wheel lift and it's perfectly controllable so long as you get the entry speed right, same as any other car.

Are you referring to this VW in Forza? That doesn't look right to me. The inside front tire is also off the ground and about the same amount as the rear tire, the kind of thing that might happen if you put tires on that were way too grippy and a very stiff suspension.

I think that's graphical glitch, the tires goes through the tarmac on the left front corner while the rest floats Will need to confirm with the poster about the FM5 car tune.

Are you saying that ANY FF car can do that ?

 

[Imari]

I think that's graphical glitch, the tires goes through the tarmac on the left front corner while the rest floats Will need to confirm with the poster about the FM5 car tune.

Are you saying that ANY FF car can do that ?

Any car will lift an inside wheel if you corner hard enough (assuming the car is capable of producing that much lateral force), and suspension design will determine whether it's a front or a rear wheel.

I imagine that for a FF car you'd pretty much always want a rear wheel to come up first, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's true for all FF cars, or at least the vast majority that weren't designed by monkeys.

If you cock a front wheel and you don't have an LSD, you've suddenly lost all power as it spins away on the lifted wheel. And even if you do have a decent LSD that can cope with one wheel off the ground, that stance isn't going to do any favours for the naturally understeery nature of FF cars. You'll have one tyre doing all the steering and the drive, which seems like a recipe for a bad time.

I don't know any of this stuff, I could be wrong. This is just me trying to reason it out.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Any car will lift an inside wheel if you corner hard enough (assuming the car is capable of producing that much lateral force), and suspension design will determine whether it's a front or a rear wheel.

I imagine that for a FF car you'd pretty much always want a rear wheel to come up first, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's true for all FF cars, or at least the vast majority that weren't designed by monkeys.

If you cock a front wheel and you don't have an LSD, you've suddenly lost all power as it spins away on the lifted wheel. And even if you do have a decent LSD that can cope with one wheel off the ground, that stance isn't going to do any favours for the naturally understeery nature of FF cars. You'll have one tyre doing all the steering and the drive, which seems like a recipe for a bad time.

I don't know any of this stuff, I could be wrong. This is just me trying to reason it out.

I know given a set of tune/circumstance, any car can lift the rear wheels, can you lift the rear wheel on a heavy luxury FF Van like Toyota Alphard ? Who knows if someone modified the suspension + tires and dared to drive like a madman Come to think of it, the road condition also contributes to the rear whee lift ( bumps ).

 

[Scaff]

View attachment 243374

Why are both the rear wheels under compression when one is off the ground by that much?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Why are both the rear wheels under compression when one is off the ground by that much?

Ummm, I don't know The rear of the car suddenly felt like being hit from the ground with a giant hammer, it hopped and oversteer after that. I think it's a glitch or there's an invisible rock there ....

 

[Scaff]

Ummm, I don't know The rear of the car suddenly felt like being hit from the ground with a giant hammer, it hopped and oversteer after that. I think it's a glitch or there's an invisible rock there ....

Its certainly odd and most definitely not right.

As the real wold Golf picture shows (and any other picture of a car cocking its leg) it should be under extension and pretty much full corner suspension 'droop'. Its normally a good way to have a look at the arc of suspension travel.

 

[shved111]

@shved111
Your comparisons are bad, because you don't know the speed of those cars in the pictures. haha

In F5 is impossible to do at any speed. And at a slow speed and at a high

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Its certainly odd and most definitely not right.

As the real wold Golf picture shows (and any other picture of a car cocking its leg) it should be under extension and pretty much full corner suspension 'droop'. Its normally a good way to have a look at the arc of suspension travel.

Like this right An early build of Schirra-Mini JCW GTS Replica ( Nurburgring Record ) 290PS/1005kg, Direzza 03G ( S1 ) Soft Comp. / SH - SM tire.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I think that's graphical glitch, the tires goes through the tarmac on the left front corner while the rest floats Will need to confirm with the poster about the FM5 car tune.

Are you saying that ANY FF car can do that ?

I haven't surveyed every FF in the world, but I do know it's very common on VW's and probably quite common in general. I also agree with Scaff, the Vitz just doesn't look right, the rear suspension should be hanging, not stuffed up under the wheel well. Looks more like a glitch or some kind of bounce back from a curb or something.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I haven't surveyed every FF in the world, but I do know it's very common on VW's and probably quite common in general. I also agree with Scaff, the Vitz just doesn't look right, the rear suspension should be hanging, not stuffed up under the wheel well. Looks more like a glitch or some kind of bounce back from a curb or something.

I think that was 100% glitch, the road surface is smooth on the mid to exit of the 1st hairpin at Tsukuba The car did lose control a bit when it happened. What do you think of this ?

Like this right An early build of Schirra-Mini JCW GTS Replica ( Nurburgring Record ) 290PS/1005kg, Direzza 03G ( S1 ) Soft Comp. / SH - SM tire.

View attachment 243929

View attachment 243928

 

[Johnnypenso]

I think that was 100% glitch, the road surface is smooth on the mid to exit of the 1st hairpin at Tsukuba The car did lose control a bit when it happened. What do you think of this ?

The first one has two wheels off the ground on a cambered corner...maybe a bump or just too much grip. The second one looks right but I can't see the front tire. You'd really need to see video to try and figure out if it's a result of physics, unusual track conditions, too much tire grip etc.

The Abarth I drove in AC was on Magione and I don't think there's a match for it in GT. It's flat as a pancake with some tight 2nd gear hairpins, and a couple of faster 3rd gear corners. Stowe is the closest match so I'll try it tonight with CM/CS and see what happens. It's hard to describe but in AC the car felt "right". On entry you could really feel the front end bite, the rear would swing out a little and under the throttle it understeered some on the way out if you got on it too early. It may have improved in GT, I gave up on FF's back at the start of GT6 because they never felt right.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The first one has two wheels off the ground on a cambered corner...maybe a bump or just too much grip. The second one looks right but I can't see the front tire. You'd really need to see video to try and figure out if it's a result of physics, unusual track conditions, too much tire grip etc.

Both picture is from the same car and position, the car didn't touch the curb at all It's exit of the esses after the foxhole that leads to the 2nd sector time / a short straight ( Adenauer Forst ). The exit is not really cambered that much, it happened twice at the same spot with the same car/tune during replica testing, the car has SM tire ( Direzza 03G S Comp ). Not sure what happen there, as the exit was quite smooth and the speed is not that high, the car just lifted and slid a little when it landed. Another shot that I took from the front :

 

[Johnnypenso]

Both picture is from the same car and position, the car didn't touch the curb at all It's exit of the esses after the foxhole that leads to the 2nd sector time / a short straight ( Adenauer Forst ). The exit is not really cambered that much, it happened twice at the same spot with the same car/tune during replica testing, the car has SM tire ( Direzza 03G S Comp ). Not sure what happen there, as the exit was quite smooth and the speed is not that high, the car just lifted and slid a little when it landed. Another shot that I took from the front :

View attachment 243977

If the effect we're looking for is huge front end squat and lifting the inside tire on an FF, this isn't it. This is something else entirely.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Maybe the car is too light at 1005kg It also has replica based weight distribution. Don't think the tire, SM might be close to real life hard slick grip, but the Mini often gets unstable there.

 

[shved111]

I do not have GT5, but I need a video - as Ferrari F1 stops with 300 kilometers per hour. (186 miles per hour) to compare with Forza 5.
In Forza 5 - Lotus F1 stops with 186 mils per hour for 50-60 meters !!! While in reality - not less than 100 meters.
I need gt5 video to check, please.

P.S. Ignore the sound) I did this video to friends, so there is Russian language

 

[Stylel_Code]

I do not have GT5, but I need a video - as Ferrari F1 stops with 300 kilometers per hour. (186 miles per hour) to compare with Forza 5.
In Forza 5 - Lotus F1 stops with 186 mils per hour for 50-60 meters !!! While in reality - not less than 100 meters.
I need gt5 video to check, please.

P.S. Ignore the sound) I did this video to friends, so there is Russian language

Why GT5?

 

[SSQES]

Because the F1 Ferrari are not in GT6.