Gran Turismo - Open World Freeroam? (Read OP)

[mani_23]

I think how GT mode always had a 'map' or world, that free roam could work best there. You could drive to dealerships, or Licenses etc. I think Its something we may not see till the PS4, regardless, I still think its a good idea if its used appropriately.

 

[sennarose88]

IMO It's better to put more effort making more tracks rather than making Los Santos. 100 unique tracks is better than 100 miles of open free roam.

Unless Sony wants PD to make TDU's rival, just make sure there won't be any invisible walls™.

 

[SigmaViper11]

I think free roam is a great idea. Been hoping for it since. . . I can remember. I don't care if all cars are turned premium or not. I want it!

 

[Mz_HSV]

What is meant by free roam?? Like just a city for people to drive around randomly in?? I don't get it?

 

[Jyazz21]

.

 

[Organ-Donor]

Free roam would be awesome, but I think it's too complicated of an idea to pull off at the moment.

They need to get the basics right first. There are way too many great tracks missing in GT5, as well as some other features. If they nail the basics and necessities first, why not do something like this. I just don't want precious development time spent doing stuff like this when other top priorities take a back seat, so I answered no.

 

[Ch0zander]

“which is useless as once again it’s not important for the majority”?!
“we fans”?!

What are you guys, the friggen political commissars of the Democratic Socialist Republic of Gran Turismo?

Both of you make this bold assumption that your opinion is the voice of “the players”. Do some reading in various forums (start with the post you’re in now) and you'll quickly realize that there are a wide range of people that like the GT line for a variety of reasons. Claiming to know what “the people” really want isn’t a real effective way to give your argument more weight, particularly on discussion boards. Your desires are as valid as everyone else’s. Many people may agree with you. They aren’t being prevented from speaking though, so speak for yourselves and don’t misrepresent. –Thanks.

Sincerely,
“we fans”

And while you’re making out your personal wish list of things that must be in the game for it to be worthy of you and your crummy sixty dollars, you might want to take a moment or two to consider what it takes to get the little ones and zeroes to line up and “make purdy car go fast”. Sorry to be so blunt – I have my critique of GT5 as well- but every gamer who ever walked the planet thinks he’s got “the genre changer” in his head, if only someone would listen. It’s funny how few of them you speak to actually bothered to even attempt to learn how to code or model. Of course that doesn’t stop them from dumping on the people who actually make games, because “people who make games are incompetent fools who lack true vision, and are just corporate robots and yes men who are out of touch with us real gamers. They couldn’t make my game …oh nooo”.

You know how much PD or Valve is going to pay you for that “brilliant design” you have or that photoshopped concept art? -Jack squat. Know what they do with all the submissions? They shred them -Because any fool can wish-think. Making it work is what takes talent, money, and effort. It’s a big boy’s game now and many millions are spent over many years for one title. You think they don’t care? You think they just fart around all day and make games for themselves?

Here’s a little snapshot of some of the “major issues” and “deal breakers” I’ve seen so far about GT5 and my opinions:

“There is no damage model, or it doesn’t do anything really effective.”
L2p FAIL …Next!

“I have Forza 3, and it has ____”
Indeed it does. …and you already own it! Congratulations, your wish has been pre-granted. See how good I am? …Next!

In all seriousness, they did a job with Forza. Forza’s goals seem to be customization and action and GT’s goals seem to be realism, detail, and to make a sort of magnum opus of car games. They’ve both accomplished what they set out to do very well. Most of the opinions about Forza vs. GT are more a byproduct of the fact that they are both console exclusive titles, and it draws people into the whole Xbox vs. PS thing. You may have a preference for one or the other, but be glad you have the variety and choice instead of raging because a single title cannot encompass the wishes and desires of an entire gaming population.

With all the coverage of this game leading up to launch, I can’t see why it would happen, but if you are mad because you paid “sixty friggin bucks” (!!! optional) for something with expectations that weren’t fulfilled, maybe you should:

-not pre-order.
-rent first.
-get a job, so paying sixty dollars for something you deem less than perfect doesn’t make you act like someone took a dump on your dining room table.

“There aren’t enough premium cars. All the cars should be premium cars. They don’t have the car I want, but they have a bunch of cars I don’t want”

They have made it clear from the outset that the game that comes in the box is only the beginning. The expected list of cars in GT5 is supposed to reach several thousand… not one thousand. not a few thousand. Several thousand. Do you really need your ‘74 Volvo Wagon to look hyper-real? Do you have to have absolutely every car in the game be a premium car? Fine. …Set aside a few grand and convince a few hundred thousand people to do the same thing. I’m sure if you are willing to wait a decade or two, someone will make “your game” for you.

“There is no test track (dyno …blah blah)”
In the meat world, things have mass and occupy three dimensional space. Things take time to do and also cost money. That is why you need a test track. You, however, can instantly transport your car to every possible place it is capable of occupying in its little GT universe with the push of a button. That is why you don’t need a test track. The world is your test track. Go forth and test!

Want a top speed track? Special Stage: Route 7 has more straight than you will ever need. Before you hit any curve on it, you start to hit the brick wall of diminishing returns due to aerodynamic drag. Any testing beyond this point is just so you can watch the pretty numbers go up, and not because of some false sense of concern about performance or racing. But that’s not the best part. You know what the best thing about SS:R7 is? If you want, you can actually race on it. That’s because it’s not just some dumb ass test track that they put in so they could say “we put in a separate track and hung a sign out front that says “test track”, because without that, Bob from Nebraska just wouldn’t feel like he was one with the universe.”

Spending time and money creating a self-redundant track …so a single car can go on it and do something that doesn’t even need to be done. And you complain about wasting time on superfluous features?

The dyno complaint is just a joke wrapped inside a joke. As soon as you equip a part, you get an instant torque and horsepower curve. If that’s not enough for you, you can again instantly transport your car to the actual track you will race on, where you can check the datalogger and get more information than you will ever hope to use. Even the best real dyno does a crap job at predicting exactly what your car will do on a track, they exist because putting a car on a track involves risk, money, and time; and you have limited time to tune and qualify before a race. Those are problems you don’t face. You don’t want features, you want a Dynojet logo up there to give you the illusion of features. While we’re on the subject….

“There should be different brands of aftermarket parts”
Everyone likes variety, but do you want variety or the illusion of it? Apart from a reason to smear logo feces all over the screen, what would it really do? You have a turbo for three areas of the rpm spectrum and you can combine various parts however you like to shape the curve. If you are talking about characteristics like spin up time and lag, this is again the illusion of choice. One part will simply be better, and you’ll be left with a pile of economy parts as you put more and more money into your car. The only real justifiable reason to have this type of feature in the game is if you were going to depict how each individual part would affect each engine uniquely, and that would involve a whole separate physics engine (at least in the development of the game) to address things like combustion and fluid dynamics, resonance, etc. This type of modeling is mega bucks in the real world, and still doesn’t depict real world results. Again, what you seem to want is the superficial appearance that you are tweaking something, and not the ability to tweak it.

“No aftermarket brakes”
This is just more of the same: The illusion of choice. There are brakes on your moms car at one end and there are super performance brakes at the other. You already get the best brakes each set of tires can handle. If you have racing slicks on and can’t seem to stop in time, you are either melting the tires off or you have the abs settings jacked. Learn how and when to break. Yes, there are other differences in performance brakes, but nothing that will produce a measureable result in a video game.

“You can’t change wheel sizes”
You can change the gearing of your transmission, and that’s all that any game that has different sized wheels really does anyhow, regardless of what they claim. Aside from changing the contact patch (see tires), It would also change braking characteristics (see tires) and ride height (already available to you).

“My Hemi sounds like a Japanese engine.”

a)You modified the hell out of it. That whirring sound you hear is the supercharger.

b) Your sound system isn’t great, and you aren’t picking up the full range. (Don’t feel bad. I’m using the craptastic built in speakers on my TV too).

c) You broke your ears, grow new ones.

“The trees and spectators look terrible. They cheaped out on it”
It’s not a question of putting time and money into it, it’s a question of what the hardware can handle. Ask yourself what you would rather see; a beautifully done car, or a fully detailed fan that you fly past so quickly he becomes a blur anyway.

“You can’t see the smoke in the mirror.”
…Sounds like a song lyric. Here’s another one:
You can’t see the rain in photo mode. Cry me a river.

“B-Spec was a waste of time and resources better spent elsewhere. No one likes it except a small minority.”

Sorry Comrade Commissar, but B-Spec probably took next to no effort to put in. All of the needed elements are already there in A-Spec. They probably thought “hey, it won’t take any resources to do this. Let’s put in a management layer and give them another way to play the game.” Of course, they didn’t bother consulting the great Commissar, who rages on because the mere existence of this option on the screen ruins “his game”.

“Photo-mode is a useless waste of time and resources. The actual game graphics don’t look good and it’s just there to fool you into thinking the game looks good.”
Same deal as B-Spec. It’s just a higher setting for the renderer with a different interface. It probably took a tiny pinch of the overall resources to put together. And another thing: Those are the actual game graphics. It’s the same 3D model, and very probably the same renderer, only with very high settings for lighting, depth of field, and such. They put it in because they thought you might like to see what no hardware -be it console, PC, or otherwise- is capable of showing you in real time with today’s tech. Don’t spit on people for offering you something different that they think you might enjoy.

“There aren’t enough events. The game is too short”
An event is a set of tracks with a number of laps and a set of restrictions, that’s it. After so many iterations, you start to get to the “random set of tracks with blue cars which have names that begin with the letter B championship”. If you need more credits or XP, then race another championship. If you have that and just want variety, cook up your own race in arcade mode. Every race is a unique experience, if you selectively ignore that, then you are basically saying that every race on a given track is the same race, regardless of the cars or laps or other settings.

There are FORTY levels of A-Spec, plus special events, plus online racing, plus progressive realistic damage, plus arcade mode for custom races, plus a custom track editor, plus more downloaded content to come, possibly including more than a TEN FOLD increase in available cars. The game has been out for a week. You haven’t even scratched the surface, and you take time out from the game to come in here and complain about how there’s nothing to do?

“____ Feature doesn’t belong in a racing game”
Seems to me GT has always tried to be more about a love of the automobile than just pure racing. They have the ability to do that now, and I think it shows. Oh I’m sorry. I forgot that you have been appointed by “we fans” to act as our representative in these matters. Carry on.

GT5 is out. It is what it is, and nothing posted here will change that. But love it or hate it, people are already talking about GT6. What in the hell?!

You know what? Go enjoy the game. …or don’t. Forums for games are always places to talk about what could be done, or what could have been done better, or what have you. All of that is healthy and necessary. Of course there are higher priorities than free roam. That’s why they didn’t put it in. That doesn’t mean you need to act like some massive shapeless fatty mass of consumer outrage, screaming bloody murder and demanding content be shoved down your gaping maw because some “false fan” mentions content that you don’t agree with …that didn’t even make it into the game to begin with.

Sorry, did I miss something? …oh …You thought you were saying something profound!
…Aw, you’re so adorable. Bless your heart.

This is just rubbish! Don't waste your time reading it, like I did.

I just comment on the sound thing you said. I'm playing GT5 with 5 Genelec speakers, that are used by recording studios, because they are the most accurate speakers on the market.

You really need to admit yourself that the sounds aren't great on overall. The turbo's sound like broken superchargers and so on. V8's are just horrible just like the boxers, which sound awesome in every video I watch with the same speakers.

Really the stuff people "we fans" complain are good and help to evolve the game. Not that everyone want's to just complain because of complainimg.
Perfection will never be reached, but proper feedback helps so much.

I don't know about you, but here we have a saying:
1 hour of planning (in this case listening to feedback) equals 1 day of work.

 

[Xouved]

Zychon: You win! I bow down to thee. 👍

 

[Mike712]

No, focus on other stuff that needs fixing before adding more features that detract from what the actual game is about.

 

[GoldenGate]

Post of the Day

How dare you come here with your valid and well presented arguments. You disgust me!

By the way, are you me?

I voted yes, but only as a precursor to fixing some of the other things in the game, like getting the premium car count up and refining the weather effects. GT6 maybe.

 

[Goes]

@Zychon
You make some valid points however..

"It’s funny how few of them you speak to actually bothered to even attempt to learn how to code or model."

I suppose you did ?

“No aftermarket brakes”

That's actually a bad thing. If you don't know why its your loss.. Not to mention no brake pad compound choices either. Then again the bitching would be insane if you'd have to upgrade the brakes in order to stop them from overheating after a few laps.

“You can’t change wheel sizes”

Atm its not that big of a problem as one of the reasons to get bigger wheels is to fit bigger brakes. To bad you cant fit wider tyres. Yes its in a way not relevant, but if you aim at perfection its odd you neglect the details that make it feel sim like. Some insanely overpriced and grippy tyres that can only be cast from the tears of daemons are a bit of a let down.

““Photo-mode ...
They put it in because they thought you might like to see what no hardware -be it console, PC, or otherwise- is capable of showing you in real time with today’s tech. ”

Do you even know what "real time" means? If I'm not mistaken they only really use the highest poly model when the screen goes black and background renders the shot..

"Those are the actual game graphics"

Are you kidding me ? Actual game graphics = the graphics you get while playing the actual game. Not when the only thing it does is only render the graphics while everything is frozen. And they hinted at those graphics to be the in race graphics on multiple occasions..

"It’s the same 3D model"

Whats the point in making a model that detailed to then only render parts of it in a race.. where it counts..

come to think of it didn't you say

"“The trees and spectators look terrible. They cheaped out on it”
It’s not a question of putting time and money into it, it’s a question of what the hardware can handle. Ask yourself what you would rather see; a beautifully done car, or a fully detailed fan that you fly past so quickly he becomes a blur anyway."

So not putting useless details in the tracks is a good thing ( I agree ) but then why is putting useless details in a car is a good thing??? To the point that you no longer have the resources to render shadows and reflections properly? They should have balanced it out a bit more.. were long passed the point that higher poly-count makes a huge impact on graphics.

And while i'm ranting away, grind != fun.
In its current state the game seems to be targeted at single, unemployed social outcasts who prefer cars over swords or guns for virtual bragging rights (aka the hardcore mmorpg/jrpg crowd). Or perhaps its just their way of preparing the youth for repetitive jobs.

And forget about free roam .. however driving from place to place might just take up less time then navigating the menu's. (race again button anyone ?)

All in all its a great game tho but it can't live up to the hype it created for itself. It sorta falls short at things you'd come to expect as standard in games these days. Especially from one claiming to be king of the hill.

I still love its balance between sim and arcade tho. And I'm sure after a few more patches most of it will be sorted out. The current flaws and annoyances don't keep me from playing it. And I do think that holds up for the majority of people either praising or bashing the game.

 

[cobra-069]

free roam in generally - i say yes!

but we all know even though gt5 plain and simple a brillant game, it has some major issues. so why not get problems fixed first before adding new features to the game?

 

[bigguy000]

It wouldn't be a Racing Sim anymore.

 

[bigguy000]

think about what you guy are saying. This isn't the game we grew to love

 

[Zychon]

You really need to admit yourself that the sounds aren't great on overall. The turbo's sound like broken superchargers and so on. V8's are just horrible just like the boxers, which sound awesome in every video I watch with the same speakers.

Really the stuff people "we fans" complain are good and help to evolve the game. Not that everyone want's to just complain because of complainimg.
Perfection will never be reached, but proper feedback helps so much.

Oh, absolutely! By all means critique the game. I have quite a few myself. ...There's a difference, and you know it. And again, -i know it has become parlance to talk this way- but unless you chaired a summit with the millions who have played Gran Turismo and I missed it, don't be so arrogant or pretentious as to assume you (not you, but the previous poster) speak for me. -Thanks.

Your comment about the sound is a perfect example. I don't think the sound is bad (I did notice the standard cars are a little crap sometimes). Anyway, you put forth a reasonable thought out argument, cited some examples... I've got no retort. Good show! But honestly, have you read the torrent of crap here and on PSN? You can't call that constructive with a straight face. It's inane melodrama.

I don't know about you, but here we have a saying:
1 hour of planning (in this case listening to feedback) equals 1 day of work.

How 'bout "proper preparation prevents piss poor performance"? ...sure. The key word there is "feedback", though.

Remember the whole "web 2.0" fiasco a few years back? All this talk about fingers on the pulse of the community and a direct link between the customer and the product or service? ...And some CEO would walk into a meeting with a stack of emails printed out and a panicked look and declare martial law until "things got fixed"? Companies tanked, and people learned really quick that you might want to be more careful with stuff like that.

Sony Online Entertainment "listened to the community" once.

With this thing that know one plays anymore.

...someone did it again here.

...oops.

The problem came to be known as "squeaky wheel gets the lightsaber". And it happens when a motivated but small group of people get very demanding and boisterous on the forums, making a lot of noise about speaking for "we fans", "the majority", and such. "The majority" is too busy playing the game to say much, or at least they aren't screaming bloody murder about it. Then the dev team scrambles to "fix" stuff instead of "developing" it, and when they're done making a mess of things, "we fans" pack up and leave.

Thankfully, companies are a little more discerning now when it comes to that sort of thing, but it still does happen. ...So:

I don't want a test track. I don't want seventeen brands/types of carburetor for my '67 fastback, so like a hamster on a wheel, in choosing one I can have the illusion that I am actually doing something. I don't want intuitive pricing for upgrades, because though it may be realistic it changes or adds nothing. Credits practically fall from the sky in this game. Lying to your insurance company because you totaled your car on track day is realistic too, it doesn't mean it needs to be added to the game.

I want them to concentrate on what they intended on doing, which is releasing DLC.

I could be wrong, but it's okay because that's just my opinion and I don't claim to speak for everyone else.

I have issues with some of the things in the game, yes. But I'm not going to spew childish crap about how the game is garbage and rage quitting if I don't get my way.

 

[Ch0zander]

Oh, absolutely! By all means critique the game. I have quite a few myself. ...There's a difference, and you know it. And again, -i know it has become parlance to talk this way- but unless you chaired a summit with the millions who have played Gran Turismo and I missed it, don't be so arrogant or pretentious as to assume you (not you, but the previous poster) speak for me. -Thanks.

Your comment about the sound is a perfect example. I don't think the sound is bad (I did notice the standard cars are a little crap sometimes). Anyway, you put forth a reasonable thought out argument, cited some examples... I've got no retort. Good show! But honestly, have you read the torrent of crap here and on PSN? You can't call that constructive with a straight face. It's inane melodrama.



How 'bout "proper preparation prevents piss poor performance"? ...sure. The key word there is "feedback", though.

Remember the whole "web 2.0" fiasco a few years back? All this talk about fingers on the pulse of the community and a direct link between the customer and the product or service? ...And some CEO would walk into a meeting with a stack of emails printed out and a panicked look and declare martial law until "things got fixed"? Companies tanked, and people learned really quick that you might want to be more careful with stuff like that.

Sony Online Entertainment "listened to the community" once.

With this thing that know one plays anymore.

...someone did it again here.

...oops.

The problem came to be known as "squeaky wheel gets the lightsaber". And it happens when a motivated but small group of people get very demanding and boisterous on the forums, making a lot of noise about speaking for "we fans", "the majority", and such. "The majority" is too busy playing the game to say much, or at least they aren't screaming bloody murder about it. Then the dev team scrambles to "fix" stuff instead of "developing" it, and when they're done making a mess of things, "we fans" pack up and leave.

Thankfully, companies are a little more discerning now when it comes to that sort of thing, but it still does happen. ...So:

I don't want a test track. I don't want seventeen brands/types of carburetor for my '67 fastback, so like a hamster on a wheel, in choosing one I can have the illusion that I am actually doing something. I don't want intuitive pricing for upgrades, because though it may be realistic it changes or adds nothing. Credits practically fall from the sky in this game. Lying to your insurance company because you totaled your car on track day is realistic too, it doesn't mean it needs to be added to the game.

I want them to concentrate on what they intended on doing, which is releasing DLC.

I could be wrong, but it's okay because that's just my opinion and I don't claim to speak for everyone else.

I have issues with some of the things in the game, yes. But I'm not going to spew childish crap about how the game is garbage and rage quitting if I don't get my way.

I'm sorry, but your main point is that PD shouldn't listen our critique, because of the bad history in few games, when fulfilling fans wishes. Ironically you wish they would not implement free roam, but in the first place it was the idea of Kazunori Yamauchi.

 

[Zychon]

I'm sorry, but your main point is that PD shouldn't listen our critique, because of the bad history in few games, when fulfilling fans wishes. Ironically you wish they would not implement free roam, but in the first place it was the idea of Kazunori Yamauchi.

Sure am glad I have you around to let me know what my main point is. I wish I had you around before, because apparently my main point had nothing at all to do with my main point. Fans wishes?! Did you read those posts I tacked up in my first post? ...Seriously?

...Love the concept of free roam. Where did you get that from? You make a point for me when you mention it was Kaz's idea. Thousands of ideas get fired around, they don't all get implemented, and it's not because they don't want to, or because they hate the fans. Every feature or line of code they exclude or include suddenly becomes someone's personal crisis, and I'm sick of it.

 

[Zychon]

@Goes

I suppose you did ?

Yes, on a very base level though. It was a dream of mine once. I still play around with 3dsMax, blender, etc. And do a little scripting and modding. The key word there was "attempt". My point was that wanting something as a feature in a game and being able to make it work without a Pentagon budget are two different things, and people overlook that.

Brakes, parts, wheels etc...

That was kinda my point. All of the choices for wheel, tire, break and pad are all very interdependent. Like the turbo argument -unless you really plan to tackle rotational inertia and whatnot, all of the choices will boil down to a single good choice over many bad ones. It's a nice concept, but you could put a hell of a lot of work into this and get it wrong. And you make the point yourself that many people will attempt to use it and go nuts when the response goes numb. I'll give you the day, though ...just for saying "tyres that can only be cast from the tears of daemons". That made my day. Keep in mind, though: the pricing is supposed to reflect many sets and the brakes and other hardware to boot.

Graphics...

"Whats the point in making a model that detailed to then only render parts of it in a race.. where it counts.. "

"Polys" don't do that. It's the depth of field, mapping, NURBS. Look closely at certain parts in photo-mode, and you can sometimes see the original underlying polys. It's the same model. If I imported that into a budget 3D program, it would probably look like something from a PS2 game. It's the processing and rendering that counts, and though it's dependent on the poly count, it can produce drastically different looks. Don't tell me they bothered to go through the trouble of doing that and decided not to put it in the race if they could have. Once you have the mesh down pretty good, you can make it look either photo-realistic or raw. That's not a matter of sinking time into modeling as much as it is what the hardware can handle.

"And they hinted at those graphics to be the in race graphics on multiple occasions.."

I always assumed they weren't using the same level of rendering that you will see in the game, because it looks too good. You've got a point though, it was misleading.

"So not putting useless details in the tracks is a good thing ( I agree ) but then why is putting useless details in a car is a good thing??? To the point that you no longer have the resources to render shadows and reflections properly? They should have balanced it out a bit more..."

Excellent point!


"And while i'm ranting away, grind != fun."

I don't like level based stuff either if it's done just for the sake of itself. But to me, grinding is collecting orc skulls when you want to be killing dragons or whatever. This is racing when you want to be racing. I feel you somewhat, because I'd have liked for the full damage to be in it from the get go, even if it was optional (like the assistance). But on the whole, if there is a grind here, I think it is self-imposed. I don't care about my level that much and just enjoy it.

.."however driving from place to place might just take up less time then navigating the menu's. (race again button anyone ?)"

No argument here... how about making the options menu accessible from somewhere else besides the main screen while you're at it?

It's still not worthy of setting your hair on fire and running down the street in protest. Which was my main point.

...I though Goes was in Zeeland.

 

[brainfade]

NO! This is a RACING GAME not Grand Theft Tourismo!!! This just defeats the whole point of the actual game... what next? Listen to the trolls again and have the option to get out and machine gun the field as they go past?

 

[digitalic]

It wouldn't be a Racing Sim anymore.

It's a driving simulator, not a racing sim.

 

[JohnBM01]

Free roam was something I have somewhat viciously debated. As I said before- PD DOES listen and read our comments. So I'm sure people up at PD thought of including free roam. I still think it's out of place to have a free roam environment. However, it is interesting the way PD wants to go about doing this. It's like my ideas with a Course Maker- out of place for a GT title, but if implemented right, I'm okay with it because I have no choice but to accept it.

I am such a GT veteran/purist that I would be somewht disappointed to have a free roam deal. And if there was a free roam, how do you implement this? How would you set up (for hypothetical purposes) Newriver City? Do you have a GT2 environment where you travel to different cities to find certain cities to shop for cars and race at tracks? Do you have a GT4 environment where everything is set up to visit different nationalities of car? Do you have a Test Drive Unlimited deal where you get pursued by the cops for going too fast? Also, how are you going to find a bunch of generic and beat-up cars?

There are still a lot of gray areas for this. Because I'm on the fence, I am not voting either way, though my inclination is to vote no.

 

[Zychon]

Also, how are you going to find a bunch of generic and beat-up cars?

...we call it "South Houston"

I don't think I'd enjoy free roam if it was compulsory. I would rather GT mode be menu based.

 

[daspianist]

Wow this thread is becoming more contentious by the post -

Anyways, I could very much understand Kazunori-san's East Asian mentality when it comes to free-roam. Just as so much effort was dedicated to allowing the player to become an actual "photographer" in photomode and walk around, Kazunori imagines the same thing here. GT5 would indeed come alive as a racing MMO(RPG), where the players would actually embody the racers.

Unfortunately, PS3 lacks the graphic capabilities to really make this come alive (imagine if all environments and gameplay were rendered in the stunning 1080p that we only see in photomode...) I sincerely believe that when GT5 was initially conceived inside PD labs, the graphics did look that good. However, recalibrating with the PS3 took a lot of charm out of the game, and made things look the way they do now.

Free roam would be lovely to have, but I simply do not see it as feasible on the current system. I remember how excited I was to hear about Gen 7 models back as a freshman in college - but that was 6 years ago. How time flies!

 

[speedthrill]

“which is useless as once again it’s not important for the majority”?!
“we fans”?!

What are you guys, the friggen political commissars of the Democratic Socialist Republic of Gran Turismo?

Both of you make this bold assumption that your opinion is the voice of “the players”. Do some reading in various forums (start with the post you’re in now) and you'll quickly realize that there are a wide range of people that like the GT line for a variety of reasons. Claiming to know what “the people” really want isn’t a real effective way to give your argument more weight, particularly on discussion boards. Your desires are as valid as everyone else’s. Many people may agree with you. They aren’t being prevented from speaking though, so speak for yourselves and don’t misrepresent. –Thanks.

Sincerely,
“we fans”

And while you’re making out your personal wish list of things that must be in the game for it to be worthy of you and your crummy sixty dollars, you might want to take a moment or two to consider what it takes to get the little ones and zeroes to line up and “make purdy car go fast”. Sorry to be so blunt – I have my critique of GT5 as well- but every gamer who ever walked the planet thinks he’s got “the genre changer” in his head, if only someone would listen. It’s funny how few of them you speak to actually bothered to even attempt to learn how to code or model. Of course that doesn’t stop them from dumping on the people who actually make games, because “people who make games are incompetent fools who lack true vision, and are just corporate robots and yes men who are out of touch with us real gamers. They couldn’t make my game …oh nooo”.

You know how much PD or Valve is going to pay you for that “brilliant design” you have or that photoshopped concept art? -Jack squat. Know what they do with all the submissions? They shred them -Because any fool can wish-think. Making it work is what takes talent, money, and effort. It’s a big boy’s game now and many millions are spent over many years for one title. You think they don’t care? You think they just fart around all day and make games for themselves?

Here’s a little snapshot of some of the “major issues” and “deal breakers” I’ve seen so far about GT5 and my opinions:

“There is no damage model, or it doesn’t do anything really effective.”
L2p FAIL …Next!

“I have Forza 3, and it has ____”
Indeed it does. …and you already own it! Congratulations, your wish has been pre-granted. See how good I am? …Next!

In all seriousness, they did a job with Forza. Forza’s goals seem to be customization and action and GT’s goals seem to be realism, detail, and to make a sort of magnum opus of car games. They’ve both accomplished what they set out to do very well. Most of the opinions about Forza vs. GT are more a byproduct of the fact that they are both console exclusive titles, and it draws people into the whole Xbox vs. PS thing. You may have a preference for one or the other, but be glad you have the variety and choice instead of raging because a single title cannot encompass the wishes and desires of an entire gaming population.

With all the coverage of this game leading up to launch, I can’t see why it would happen, but if you are mad because you paid “sixty friggin bucks” (!!! optional) for something with expectations that weren’t fulfilled, maybe you should:

-not pre-order.
-rent first.
-get a job, so paying sixty dollars for something you deem less than perfect doesn’t make you act like someone took a dump on your dining room table.

“There aren’t enough premium cars. All the cars should be premium cars. They don’t have the car I want, but they have a bunch of cars I don’t want”

They have made it clear from the outset that the game that comes in the box is only the beginning. The expected list of cars in GT5 is supposed to reach several thousand… not one thousand. not a few thousand. Several thousand. Do you really need your ‘74 Volvo Wagon to look hyper-real? Do you have to have absolutely every car in the game be a premium car? Fine. …Set aside a few grand and convince a few hundred thousand people to do the same thing. I’m sure if you are willing to wait a decade or two, someone will make “your game” for you.

“There is no test track (dyno …blah blah)”
In the meat world, things have mass and occupy three dimensional space. Things take time to do and also cost money. That is why you need a test track. You, however, can instantly transport your car to every possible place it is capable of occupying in its little GT universe with the push of a button. That is why you don’t need a test track. The world is your test track. Go forth and test!

Want a top speed track? Special Stage: Route 7 has more straight than you will ever need. Before you hit any curve on it, you start to hit the brick wall of diminishing returns due to aerodynamic drag. Any testing beyond this point is just so you can watch the pretty numbers go up, and not because of some false sense of concern about performance or racing. But that’s not the best part. You know what the best thing about SS:R7 is? If you want, you can actually race on it. That’s because it’s not just some dumb ass test track that they put in so they could say “we put in a separate track and hung a sign out front that says “test track”, because without that, Bob from Nebraska just wouldn’t feel like he was one with the universe.”

Spending time and money creating a self-redundant track …so a single car can go on it and do something that doesn’t even need to be done. And you complain about wasting time on superfluous features?

The dyno complaint is just a joke wrapped inside a joke. As soon as you equip a part, you get an instant torque and horsepower curve. If that’s not enough for you, you can again instantly transport your car to the actual track you will race on, where you can check the datalogger and get more information than you will ever hope to use. Even the best real dyno does a crap job at predicting exactly what your car will do on a track, they exist because putting a car on a track involves risk, money, and time; and you have limited time to tune and qualify before a race. Those are problems you don’t face. You don’t want features, you want a Dynojet logo up there to give you the illusion of features. While we’re on the subject….

“There should be different brands of aftermarket parts”
Everyone likes variety, but do you want variety or the illusion of it? Apart from a reason to smear logo feces all over the screen, what would it really do? You have a turbo for three areas of the rpm spectrum and you can combine various parts however you like to shape the curve. If you are talking about characteristics like spin up time and lag, this is again the illusion of choice. One part will simply be better, and you’ll be left with a pile of economy parts as you put more and more money into your car. The only real justifiable reason to have this type of feature in the game is if you were going to depict how each individual part would affect each engine uniquely, and that would involve a whole separate physics engine (at least in the development of the game) to address things like combustion and fluid dynamics, resonance, etc. This type of modeling is mega bucks in the real world, and still doesn’t depict real world results. Again, what you seem to want is the superficial appearance that you are tweaking something, and not the ability to tweak it.

“No aftermarket brakes”
This is just more of the same: The illusion of choice. There are brakes on your moms car at one end and there are super performance brakes at the other. You already get the best brakes each set of tires can handle. If you have racing slicks on and can’t seem to stop in time, you are either melting the tires off or you have the abs settings jacked. Learn how and when to break. Yes, there are other differences in performance brakes, but nothing that will produce a measureable result in a video game.

“You can’t change wheel sizes”
You can change the gearing of your transmission, and that’s all that any game that has different sized wheels really does anyhow, regardless of what they claim. Aside from changing the contact patch (see tires), It would also change braking characteristics (see tires) and ride height (already available to you).

“My Hemi sounds like a Japanese engine.”

a)You modified the hell out of it. That whirring sound you hear is the supercharger.

b) Your sound system isn’t great, and you aren’t picking up the full range. (Don’t feel bad. I’m using the craptastic built in speakers on my TV too).

c) You broke your ears, grow new ones.

“The trees and spectators look terrible. They cheaped out on it”
It’s not a question of putting time and money into it, it’s a question of what the hardware can handle. Ask yourself what you would rather see; a beautifully done car, or a fully detailed fan that you fly past so quickly he becomes a blur anyway.

“You can’t see the smoke in the mirror.”
…Sounds like a song lyric. Here’s another one:
You can’t see the rain in photo mode. Cry me a river.

“B-Spec was a waste of time and resources better spent elsewhere. No one likes it except a small minority.”

Sorry Comrade Commissar, but B-Spec probably took next to no effort to put in. All of the needed elements are already there in A-Spec. They probably thought “hey, it won’t take any resources to do this. Let’s put in a management layer and give them another way to play the game.” Of course, they didn’t bother consulting the great Commissar, who rages on because the mere existence of this option on the screen ruins “his game”.

“Photo-mode is a useless waste of time and resources. The actual game graphics don’t look good and it’s just there to fool you into thinking the game looks good.”
Same deal as B-Spec. It’s just a higher setting for the renderer with a different interface. It probably took a tiny pinch of the overall resources to put together. And another thing: Those are the actual game graphics. It’s the same 3D model, and very probably the same renderer, only with very high settings for lighting, depth of field, and such. They put it in because they thought you might like to see what no hardware -be it console, PC, or otherwise- is capable of showing you in real time with today’s tech. Don’t spit on people for offering you something different that they think you might enjoy.

“There aren’t enough events. The game is too short”
An event is a set of tracks with a number of laps and a set of restrictions, that’s it. After so many iterations, you start to get to the “random set of tracks with blue cars which have names that begin with the letter B championship”. If you need more credits or XP, then race another championship. If you have that and just want variety, cook up your own race in arcade mode. Every race is a unique experience, if you selectively ignore that, then you are basically saying that every race on a given track is the same race, regardless of the cars or laps or other settings.

There are FORTY levels of A-Spec, plus special events, plus online racing, plus progressive realistic damage, plus arcade mode for custom races, plus a custom track editor, plus more downloaded content to come, possibly including more than a TEN FOLD increase in available cars. The game has been out for a week. You haven’t even scratched the surface, and you take time out from the game to come in here and complain about how there’s nothing to do?

“____ Feature doesn’t belong in a racing game”
Seems to me GT has always tried to be more about a love of the automobile than just pure racing. They have the ability to do that now, and I think it shows. Oh I’m sorry. I forgot that you have been appointed by “we fans” to act as our representative in these matters. Carry on.

GT5 is out. It is what it is, and nothing posted here will change that. But love it or hate it, people are already talking about GT6. What in the hell?!

You know what? Go enjoy the game. …or don’t. Forums for games are always places to talk about what could be done, or what could have been done better, or what have you. All of that is healthy and necessary. Of course there are higher priorities than free roam. That’s why they didn’t put it in. That doesn’t mean you need to act like some massive shapeless fatty mass of consumer outrage, screaming bloody murder and demanding content be shoved down your gaping maw because some “false fan” mentions content that you don’t agree with …that didn’t even make it into the game to begin with.

Sorry, did I miss something? …oh …You thought you were saying something profound!
…Aw, you’re so adorable. Bless your heart.

I love you!!! 👍

 

[speedthrill]

@Zychon
You make some valid points however..

"It’s funny how few of them you speak to actually bothered to even attempt to learn how to code or model."

I suppose you did ?

“No aftermarket brakes”

That's actually a bad thing. If you don't know why its your loss.. Not to mention no brake pad compound choices either. Then again the bitching would be insane if you'd have to upgrade the brakes in order to stop them from overheating after a few laps.

“You can’t change wheel sizes”

Atm its not that big of a problem as one of the reasons to get bigger wheels is to fit bigger brakes. To bad you cant fit wider tyres. Yes its in a way not relevant, but if you aim at perfection its odd you neglect the details that make it feel sim like. Some insanely overpriced and grippy tyres that can only be cast from the tears of daemons are a bit of a let down.

““Photo-mode ...
They put it in because they thought you might like to see what no hardware -be it console, PC, or otherwise- is capable of showing you in real time with today’s tech. ”

Do you even know what "real time" means? If I'm not mistaken they only really use the highest poly model when the screen goes black and background renders the shot..

"Those are the actual game graphics"

Are you kidding me ? Actual game graphics = the graphics you get while playing the actual game. Not when the only thing it does is only render the graphics while everything is frozen. And they hinted at those graphics to be the in race graphics on multiple occasions..

"It’s the same 3D model"

Whats the point in making a model that detailed to then only render parts of it in a race.. where it counts..

come to think of it didn't you say

"“The trees and spectators look terrible. They cheaped out on it”
It’s not a question of putting time and money into it, it’s a question of what the hardware can handle. Ask yourself what you would rather see; a beautifully done car, or a fully detailed fan that you fly past so quickly he becomes a blur anyway."

So not putting useless details in the tracks is a good thing ( I agree ) but then why is putting useless details in a car is a good thing??? To the point that you no longer have the resources to render shadows and reflections properly? They should have balanced it out a bit more.. were long passed the point that higher poly-count makes a huge impact on graphics.

And while i'm ranting away, grind != fun.
In its current state the game seems to be targeted at single, unemployed social outcasts who prefer cars over swords or guns for virtual bragging rights (aka the hardcore mmorpg/jrpg crowd). Or perhaps its just their way of preparing the youth for repetitive jobs.

And forget about free roam .. however driving from place to place might just take up less time then navigating the menu's. (race again button anyone ?)

All in all its a great game tho but it can't live up to the hype it created for itself. It sorta falls short at things you'd come to expect as standard in games these days. Especially from one claiming to be king of the hill.

I still love its balance between sim and arcade tho. And I'm sure after a few more patches most of it will be sorted out. The current flaws and annoyances don't keep me from playing it. And I do think that holds up for the majority of people either praising or bashing the game.

he had a point though, and now i definatley know you're a modeler, or use atleast MAYA...

Now who are you exactly... Originally Xbox and bought PS3 just for this? I understand the disappointment then... Alot of euros...

@ Zychon, yes Goes is there , for an american, you know your map. But i bet he just loves to go there for his reasons.

 

[Ch0zander]

Sure am glad I have you around to let me know what my main point is. I wish I had you around before, because apparently my main point had nothing at all to do with my main point. Fans wishes?! Did you read those posts I tacked up in my first post? ...Seriously?

...Love the concept of free roam. Where did you get that from? You make a point for me when you mention it was Kaz's idea. Thousands of ideas get fired around, they don't all get implemented, and it's not because they don't want to, or because they hate the fans. Every feature or line of code they exclude or include suddenly becomes someone's personal crisis, and I'm sick of it.

Why do you care about other peoples personal problems?
And form an opinion. What was your answer to the poll?

Last but not least, stay on topic. This thread is about free roam. Is that clear enough?

P.S. Do NOT answer to the first question atleast not in this thread. You should know the reason why.

 

[BKViper]

Free Roam will be out in February.
It's called Test Drive Unlimited 2.

 

[Goes]

@Goes
It's still not worthy of setting your hair on fire and running down the street in protest. Which was my main point.

...I though Goes was in Zeeland.

Ive honestly mistaken you for one of the fans that cant hear anything bad about there beloved series in that post .. But it seems we've basically got the same opinion on the game.

And yes Goes is a city (although by your standards a small town) in the Netherlands.. Yet for some reason the dutch wont acknowledge me as there rightful leader

@speedthrill to bad the dutch police have a hard on for foreign license plates these days..

 

[UK-Gamer]

Free Roam will be out in February.
It's called Test Drive Unlimited 2.

But what about a DIFFERENT game, like what PD did with Tourist Trophy.... but make it good.

 

[speedthrill]

Ive honestly mistaken you for one of the fans that cant hear anything bad about there beloved series in that post .. But it seems we've basically got the same opinion on the game.

And yes Goes is a city (although by your standards a small town) in the Netherlands.. Yet for some reason the dutch wont acknowledge me as there rightful leader

@speedthrill to bad the dutch police have a hard on for foreign license plates these days..

Yeah i know, Terneuzen was so much easier...

I guess it's time for a tent and a 400W hps?

Keep it up!