Gran Turismo Sophy: Sony AI x Polyphony Digital

[sonnyboychris]

They were not clustered, they were single cloud versions of a PS4 like every player could have used them with a single virtual copy of GTS.

Thank you for that clarification. If they were able to run Sophy at 60FPS on the PS4, then this was purely a business decision by Sony.

When I say that I doubt it could run on the PS4, I'm calling into question the consoles ability to do it at 60 FPS. For the purposes of their training, I don't think it matters if the game is dropping the framerate to unacceptable levels.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Thank you for that clarification. If they were able to run Sophy at 60FPS on the PS4, then this was purely a business decision by Sony.

When I say that I doubt it could run on the PS4, I'm calling into question the consoles ability to do it at 60 FPS. For the purposes of their training, I don't think it matters if the game is dropping the framerate to unacceptable levels.

We have zero idea of what the PS4 was able to run. It could be just one Sophy and no capacity for anything else.

 

[Auditore]

My theory is that some of Sophy's weird behavior might be PD trying to limit it's abilities to make the race lean more in favor of the player.

 

[ShiftingGears]

Do you guys think that Sophy / sim racing AI will experience a similar quick development as LLM AI is experiencing now? In this case in GT8 in 2027-2028 we could have some spectacular AI.

If PD can't implement it properly with Sophy they won't implement it with any other AI

 

[05XR8]

Was having a thought if SONY AI were to have SOPHY actual play GT7. From licence tests to collecting cars to Scapes.
How many times would SOPHY grind races to collect all cars and would SOPHY create a gtplanet account to digitally voice frustrations?

 

[ruestchiva]

I hope we could have an option to make Sophy faster. It feels like they dialed it down A LOT. Once you go past it, it slows down a lot as well reducing the competitiveness of the event.

 

[hawkeyez]

Was having a thought if SONY AI were to have SOPHY actual play GT7. From licence tests to collecting cars to Scapes.
How many times would SOPHY grind races to collect all cars and would SOPHY create a gtplanet account to digitally voice frustrations?

I wouldn’t doubt it, it wouldn’t voice frustrations obviously but it would probably find the race that makes the most money and run that. Too bad they couldn’t use it to bring to light that they don’t have equal payouts for races. The downfall of GT7 is the credits and time investing. Most games I quit playing in the long run are credit based, I use get tired of earning, haven’t I played the game enough yet? My PSN shows over 2000hrs, a lot of that is liveries and racing in lobbies so I’m not still swimming in credits and don’t have all the cars.

I hope we could have an option to make Sophy faster. It feels like they dialed it down A LOT. Once you go past it, it slows down a lot as well reducing the competitiveness of the event.

Their regular AI does this too, as soon as you get your front end past theirs they let off. When they announced Sophy I got excited since their AI sucks compared to other games, but then they released it and I realized they didn’t tailor Sophy to make the game better, just to turn it into a driving machine. They’re missing the most crucial part of making a good race. PD oversells and under delivers every time. Now with summer here, I’m having a hard time even getting behind my wheel with this game. I have other chores to do. lol

 

[ruestchiva]

I wouldn’t doubt it, it wouldn’t voice frustrations obviously but it would probably find the race that makes the most money and run that. Too bad they couldn’t use it to bring to light that they don’t have equal payouts for races. The downfall of GT7 is the credits and time investing. Most games I quit playing in the long run are credit based, I use get tired of earning, haven’t I played the game enough yet? My PSN shows over 2000hrs, a lot of that is liveries and racing in lobbies so I’m not still swimming in credits and don’t have all the cars.

Their regular AI does this too, as soon as you get your front end past theirs they let off. When they announced Sophy I got excited since their AI sucks compared to other games, but then they released it and I realized they didn’t tailor Sophy to make the game better, just to turn it into a driving machine. They’re missing the most crucial part of making a good race. PD oversells and under delivers every time. Now with summer here, I’m having a hard time even getting behind my wheel with this game. I have other chores to do. lol

Couldn't describe this better myself. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks like this.

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

(...) and would SOPHY create a gtplanet account to digitally voice frustrations?

I imagine Sophy would post like it talks in game.

" (dinging sound)"
" (sadder dinging sound)"

 

[jonoholland29]

I hope we could have an option to make Sophy faster. It feels like they dialled it down A LOT. Once you go past it, it slows down a lot as well reducing the competitiveness of the event.

Set Boost to Weak if its a custom event. That will make sure they drive at a consistent pace.

Boost off = Sophy will slow down once you're in the lead
Boost weak = Sophy will drive at a consistent pace for race duration
Boost Strong = Sophy will speed up if you're leading

 

[Voodoovaj]

Set Boost to Weak if its a custom event. That will make sure they drive at a consistent pace.

Boost off = Sophy will slow down once you're in the lead
Boost weak = Sophy will drive at a consistent pace for race duration
Boost Strong = Sophy will speed up if you're leading

I need to do more experimentation with boost strong.

 

[jonoholland29]

I need to do more experimentation with boost strong.

Yeah that's what I found previously but I don't have a large data set and I'm not the greatest driver, so Boost strong may well be inaccurate for others. But it's certainly what I found on tracks where I'm consistent and dialled in

 

[ruestchiva]

Yeah that's what I found previously but I don't have a large data set and I'm not the greatest driver, so Boost strong may well be inaccurate for others. But it's certainly what I found on tracks where I'm consistent and dialled in

Would you say Boost Strong is like rubberbanding? or do you feel it is within the "possibility" of what their car can do and just a superhuman driver may achieve?

 

[Voodoovaj]

The issue with Sophy at the moment is that the pathfinding is inconsistent. As in, it doesn't always follow the fast line. It's like a problem with whatever method they use to tell Sophy where the track limits are.

I'll use Interlagos as the example

Sophy uses the curbs in the Senna Esses (T1 and T2). I'm way in the back of this image. Red Sophy is almost completely 4 wheels over the white. They all follow this line.

However, in T8, Sophy won't get even two tires over the white line.

But the line through T8 is similar to T2, you have to get the car almost completely over the white line. and the black marks in game are an indicator. You'll lose an enormous amount of time if you don't.

I have seen this issue on all the tracks. Hopefully, it's something that gets corrected in the future since it kind of spoils the experience and slows Sophy down.

 

[bliprunner]

Set Boost to Weak if its a custom event. That will make sure they drive at a consistent pace.

Boost off = Sophy will slow down once you're in the lead
Boost weak = Sophy will drive at a consistent pace for race duration
Boost Strong = Sophy will speed up if you're leading

I wish this were true but with Boost Weak Sophy definitely speeds up when you are leading.

Try a GT3 BOP race at Interlagos against one Sophy. It’s pretty easy to get in front, but once there it’s near impossible to pull a gap of more than 1 or 2 seconds.

And if Sophy pits and loses a big chunk of time it will do unrealistically fast laps to catch up.

Boost Weak is the best option though…

 

[CodeRedR51]

Sophy also has an issue with doing a slipstream breaking line down the straights. They come out of a corner and immediately swerve over.

 

[jonoholland29]

I wish this were true but with Boost Weak Sophy definitely speeds up when you are leading.

Try a GT3 BOP race at Interlagos against one Sophy. It’s pretty easy to get in front, but once there it’s near impossible to pull a gap of more than 1 or 2 seconds.

And if Sophy pits and loses a big chunk of time it will do unrealistically fast laps to catch up.

Boost Weak is the best option though…

I meant consistent with your own pace sorry.

I haven’t actually tested it where I haven’t made a pit stop and Sophy has - not sure how I can do that?

 

[bliprunner]

I meant consistent with your own pace sorry.

I haven’t actually tested it where I haven’t made a pit stop and Sophy has - not sure how I can do that?

Set up a custom race with fuel multiplier. Sophy is quite conservative so will likely pit first.

 

[hawkeyez]

SOPHY is hyped. I remember racing project cars and battling for first or second place for my entire race. GT7, Sophy and regular AI is just meh and like everyone is confirming, they both do weird stupid and inconsistent things on the track. The regular AI is horrible for braking on exiting a corner, and swerving in front of you. I never figured out how to shut Sophy emojis off, not that I care now anyway

 

[ShiftingGears]

Thought I would put it in this thread;

Sophy in GT7 custom races is being boosted, and this is evident when they are in the same car as the player. It will take worse lines than you, have a slower mid-corner apex speed, start accelerating later than the player, get on full throttle later than the player, and still you will only be able to draw alongside the AI no matter how long the next straight is.

The below video is with Boost = Off.



So Sophy in GT7 right now is not faster than regular AI because PD actually implemented world-beating technology, it's just rubber-banding by applying a power boost on corner exits to compensate for poor cornering, and then claiming that no boost is being applied.

 

[bliprunner]

Thought I would put it in this thread;

Sophy in GT7 custom races is being boosted, and this is evident when they are in the same car as the player. It will take worse lines than you, have a slower mid-corner apex speed, start accelerating later than the player, get on full throttle later than the player, and still you will only be able to draw alongside the AI no matter how long the next straight is.

The below video is with Boost = Off.



So Sophy in GT7 right now is not faster than regular AI because PD actually implemented world-beating technology, it's just rubber-banding by applying a power boost on corner exits to compensate for poor cornering, and then claiming that no boost is being applied.

I know this is the obvious question, but how does it compare with Boost Weak?

With Boost Off it does feel like Sophy begins races unrealistically fast and then slows down.

Will have to test... I think a split-screen Boost Weak video would be interesting.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I know this is the obvious question, but how does it compare with Boost Weak?

Its the same behaviour. They boost out of corners on all boost levels.

With Boost None it does feel like Sophy begins races unrealistically fast and then slows down.

What do you mean by Sophy slowing down? I've only noticed Sophy falling off once you get a certain distance ahead of it.

I don't believe it has anything to do with the time in the race, I think it's just depending on the position relative to the player.

 

[bliprunner]

What do you mean by Sophy slowing down?

@MGR did a detailed test here -

They made Sophy better! BOOST WEAK

Man, I really hope they deliver a full beans, 100% Sophy option, just to give the haters someplace to go 🙄 If GT8 ships with the same boring single player from the last several version, I'll point to this thread when people complain about it. I'm a hater, yes. I hate that cheeky smile she...

www.gtplanet.net

In the yellow rows MGR stays in 2nd place behind Sophy.

With Boost Off Sophy does the best lap of all yellow rows on Lap 2, slows on lap 3, and slows even more on lap 4. Marked red in the below image.

Lap 1 isn't recorded, but if we assume gradual slowing, Sophy Boost Off is probably rubber-banded even more at the beginning.

You could be right about Sophy getting boosted out of corners though, she is definitely very strong at exits. I want to believe she doesn't (on Weak) but I'm definitely suspicious...

 

[ruestchiva]

@MGR did a detailed test here -

They made Sophy better! BOOST WEAK

Man, I really hope they deliver a full beans, 100% Sophy option, just to give the haters someplace to go 🙄 If GT8 ships with the same boring single player from the last several version, I'll point to this thread when people complain about it. I'm a hater, yes. I hate that cheeky smile she...

www.gtplanet.net

In the yellow rows MGR stays in 2nd place behind Sophy.

With Boost Off Sophy does the best lap of all yellow rows on Lap 2, slows on lap 3, and slows even more on lap 4. Marked red in the below image.

Lap 1 isn't recorded, but if we assume gradual slowing, Sophy Boost Off is probably rubber-banded even more at the beginning.

You could be right about Sophy getting boosted out of corners though, she is definitely very strong at exits. I want to believe she doesn't (on Weak) but I'm definitely suspicious...


View attachment 1463663

Very interesting info. Definitely Boost Weak would be my go to. Although, not sure if I'm still happy about Sophy not doing her best potential all the time. I would like it to be more competitive all the time.

 

[Nakano219]

Does anyone have any experience about whether the Custom Race difficulty slider (and/or the game difficulty) does anything with Sophy?

The reason I ask is because I was perusing @half_sourly's excellent Time Trial results thread, I noticed that on the most standard combination there is (Gr.3 at <real life Grade 1 track>), the average player tends to be roughly on the 5% Silver-Bronze line, so your median player is 4 or 5 seconds off pace.

So it made me wonder if PD/Sony AI had made any avenue towards scaling yet. Because the current Sophy is a lot of fun for those of us who are into the game enough to be on forums for it, but it's clearly still rather too quick to be the AI that is the backbone of a game that racing game newbies should be able to complete.