Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Tenacious D]

the updated cars could have been modeled to show off new damage?

This is what I was going to say.

I'm expecting some nice surprises at E3 in a few weeks. I wonder if one of them will involve the P-word. I recall what an uproar ensued for Prologue when we saw 16 cars on track when prior to that I think the most we saw was 9. And then when the Ferraris showed up to the party. I'm counting on SONY funding a couple of nice gamer magnets for GT Sport besides all this competition.

As for the kerfuffle over FIA and the tracks... whatever. I'm racing them, and I want a lot of them. All the legacy tracks from Gran Turismo if I can have them. That's all I care about.

 

[TenEightyOne]

GTP interviews are always soft touches, you seem very afraid to bite the hand that feeds.

How is GTP fed by that hand, as you put it, and have you read every GTP interview to be sure of your facts?

Now I haven't actually read any of your interviews this time around

Ah, I see, some might think that your "always" assessment of GTP interviews could be bollocks.

 

[nasanu]

And this kind of thinking is why you will never go to these events. I guarantee you wouldn't last as a journalist with that sort of mindset.

Journalist?... Please, don't devalue that word further. Anyone who shys from tough questions and presents stories that read like PR pieces isn't a journalist. News to a journalist is anything that someone somewhere doesn't want published. Journalists are meant to investigate and expose, not regurgitate and tow the line. This isn't really related to the discussion but please don't call video game bloggers journalists, it is firstly wrong but also disrespectful to actual journalists.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I know, all we need is to get Translator-San here, give him all question we want to ask to pass on Kaz

 

[andryush]

Different than what I experienced driving and building replicas and online tunes. Cars usually slide too much because of the driver, not the car or the tires, knowing where is the limit and stay on the edge is what makes driving less slidey or drifty, are those even english words

Go to my garage, check some of the last few pages, I included replays of my test runs, cars like 458 Italia on CS, CTR2 on CM at London and Midfield ( the RUF is awesome ), even the Yellowbird is on CM ( to reflect real life performance at Tsukuba )

Too many get used to high grip level of GT tires, most of the sports and racing tires are way too much if going by real life level of grip. McLaren F1 GTR seems to be somewhere between SH and SM ( similar performance to 90's slick period ), it's already a monster on SH ( in terms of cornering and braking )

This is an example, RUF CTR GT6 vs AC :



And the driver/uploader review/impression :


What I expect from GTS is to get closer to AC if not matched it, if that's not possible at least reach LFS level of simulation.

Yes, cars DO slide because of driver. I completely agree with you, but what I'm trying to say is that Gran Turismo does understeer wrong. There's not enough feedback from the physics engine to inform driver that he's really going too fast. Project CARS for example almost always feels so grippy, there's no sliding like in GT series, but it manages to tell the driver that he's going too fast in a corner. Understeer feels 'heavier', you can feel the weight of the car better. GT feels like it should only when you have ideal setup for the cars suspension. Otherwise car slides like on ice.

 

[wicken]

http://www.dualshockers.com/2016/05...o-watch-kazunori-yamauchis-full-presentation/

Judging from the presentation, the campaign in the game is more about teaching how to race aggressively, defensively, etc; with very minor racing in it other than the "Mission Challenge" tab.

 

[jm79]

Journalist?... Please, don't devalue that word further. Anyone who shys from tough questions and presents stories that read like PR pieces isn't a journalist. News to a journalist is anything that someone somewhere doesn't want published. Journalists are meant to investigate and expose, not regurgitate and tow the line. This isn't really related to the discussion but please don't call video game bloggers journalists, it is firstly wrong but also disrespectful to actual journalists.

The Copper box event was a generous gesture on the part of PD/Sony to allow (some of) the GTP guys to attend the unveiling of the new Gran Turismo game.

We're not talking Watergate here.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Yes, cars DO slide because of driver. I completely agree with you, but what I'm trying to say is that Gran Turismo does understeer wrong. There's not enough feedback from the physics engine to inform driver that he's really going too fast. Project CARS for example almost always feels so grippy, there's no sliding like in GT series, but it manages to tell the driver that he's going too fast in a corner. Understeer feels 'heavier', you can feel the weight of the car better. GT feels like it should only when you have ideal setup for the cars suspension. Otherwise car slides like on ice.

Those are more on FFB, I bet you are playing with a wheel Car setup also plays a lot of factor, I build replicas using real life specs/data, then fine tune the damper, ARB and LSD to best mimic real life behavior. Also, there's no ideal setup for suspension, it can always evolve and change according to driver, tires, track condition etc, this also applies in GT.

Pcars stock setup generally made to be safe, with understeer nearing threshold of grip limit, even at the expense of not using real life stock setup ( on road cars like BMW 1M for example )

Why don't you try the R34 GTR Vspec replica, it's quoted on the last post of my garage, try that with alternative damper setup, drive at Deep Forest on CS tire, aim to lap in 1:30s or less, let me know your impression about the understeer and oversteer balance of the car.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

GTP interviews are always soft touches, you seem very afraid to bite the hand that feeds.

...

Instead its more like; Mr yamauchi, has the sound improved in GTS? "yes its totally redone". That is excellent news very well done Mr Yamauchi.

...

Now I haven't actually read any of your interviews this time around

Being an aggressive arse doesn't magically draw out answers to tough questions. It's likely to result in the same answers as a more civilized approach, with the added bonus of never being invited to another event.

Good advice:

@nasanu should watch this video from TotalBiscuit (about Kotaku being blacklisted by publishers). Actually, it's good material for just about everyone.

 

[nasanu]

Being an aggressive arse doesn't magically draw out answers to tough questions. It's likely to result in the same answers as a more civilized approach, with the added bonus of never being invited to another event.

Good advice:

Well I was expecting people to be able to figure out that the same questions could be asked in a more diplomatic manner. That though was too much.

And how would deeper questions about the games functions that normal gaming sites fail to ask get anyone offside?

 

[Tornado]

Well I was expecting people to be able to figure out that the same questions could be asked in a more diplomatic manner. That though was too much.

Why not ask directly why GT games are consistently the worst sounding games?

Diplomacy!

 

[nasanu]

The Copper box event was a generous gesture on the part of PD/Sony to allow (some of) the dedicated fans at GTP to attend the unveiling of the new Gran Turismo game.

We're not talking Watergate here.

Really? A big generous charity event is how you saw it? You didn't see the huge PR event it was? Geez, it wasn't some generous gift, it was the beginning of the marketing campaign.

And yes, not water gate which is why I question the use of the term journalist....?

Diplomacy!

Look up the definition of the English word "could".

 

[Traviizter]

Being an aggressive arse doesn't magically draw out answers to tough questions. It's likely to result in the same answers as a more civilized approach, with the added bonus of never being invited to another event.

Good advice:

This post x100000.
In fact, in many situations I would say asking aggressively to try and "beat" an answer out of someone gets you negative results.

 

[Tornado]

Look up the definition of the English word "could".

Yeah, I get that you're attempting to keep looking clever as you continue to talk about things you have no knowledge of, but it's still rather hard to reconcile "I figured you people were smart enough to know I wasn't being literal with what you should ask" with "why not ask directly the pointlessly aggresive question".

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Well I was expecting people to be able to figure out that the same questions could be asked in a more diplomatic manner. That though was too much.

It's too much to expect people to take what you wrote at face value?

Did you mean something else? Hot tip: write that, then.

And how would deeper questions about the games functions that normal gaming sites fail to ask get anyone offside?

Deeper questions don't have to. Of course, as you haven't seen nor heard any of the questions GTPlanet had for Kazunori & Co, you're working on nothing more than an assumption.

 

[jm79]

Really? A big generous charity event is how you saw it? You didn't see the huge PR event it was? Geez, it wasn't some generous gift, it was the beginning of the marketing campaign.

It was very generous of them to allow me to attend their PR event, yes.

 

[nowcontrol]

I already asked him the most important question, we got a clear enough answer, it's done, lets move on.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Really? A big generous charity event is how you saw it? You didn't see the huge PR event it was? Geez, it wasn't some generous gift, it was the beginning of the marketing campaign.

And yes, not water gate which is why I question the use of the term journalist....?

How would you ask the question ? Let's say question about current state of GTS physics going from GT6, what most sim players expected and what PD could do in GTS ? How do you ask details like camber, tire pressure, stock setups that needs work in accuracy, damage model like tire blow out, engine failure, turbo lag, driveline physics, aero/drag, each wheel suspension adjustments, tire size adjustment/stagger ( which has been done by Advan Racing since PSX, Kaz should know this ) What will Kaz aim as the limits for simulation in GTS ? Realistic engine simulation with accurate compression, AFR, intake temp/pressure, altitude, carb/injection, realistic suspension modelling from live axle, beam, de dion, multi link, struts, control arm, etc, will these ever be included ? How would sound simulation goes, the artistic style of "hollywood" or realistic positional based system with accurate dynamic range ?

The hard question, does Kaz intentionally limit the scope of simulation in GT for commercial reasons ? or is it a slow evolution to bring more audience, while going to the bigger scope and accuracy ?

If you can get these to Kaz without causing negativity, you are Godly

 

[Dionisiy]

 

[sems4arsenal]

Yep track looks awful for me, even worse than Rome and Madrid.

 

[doblocruiser]

I think it is also unfinished. It's simply not up to quality yet.

 

[dance1211]

It feels like there should be another larger part of the track just like how Autumn Ring Mini has the larger Autumn Ring.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

And how would deeper questions about the games functions that normal gaming sites fail to ask get anyone offside?

Deeper questions is an excellent idea - but you haven't suggested anything of the sort. Your questions amount to "Kaz this part of the game SUCKS. Why?????????". Which would probably achieve absolute squat.

 

[Samus]

View attachment 549088

I think it is also unfinished. It's simply not up to quality yet.

But should they not have had 5 tracks finished by now? Honestly it seems like Brands is the only track that was totally finished.

 

[nasanu]

It's too much to expect people to take what you wrote at face value?

Did you mean something else? Hot tip: write that, then.

No, I meant exactly what I wrote. Its not my issue how people single mindedly choose to interpret it.

Deeper questions don't have to. Of course, as you haven't seen nor heard any of the questions GTPlanet had for Kazunori & Co, you're working on nothing more than an assumption.

Which is exactly why I wrote "bet" and not "know for a fact". See the difference there?

But should they not have had 5 tracks finished by now? Honestly it seems like Brands is the only track that was totally finished.

Which is one reason I suspect they were pressured to show the game now. Maybe they have a timed deal with the FIA, maybe Sony needs them to fill some gap, who knows but it didnt seem like PD was ready to showcase the game yet.

 

[RaY29rus]

I like it. Imagine if this track have time/weather change!

 

[doblocruiser]

But should they not have had 5 tracks finished by now? Honestly it seems like Brands is the only track that was totally finished.

I agree Samus and I have simply no explanation for it. I also wonder how to interpret this 50% complete? I can't imagine that is true. They have 6 months to complete the rest of the 50% and on the first they already worked for over 3 years.

I think it has more to do in terms of quality. The base structure is complete and ready. Now all needs to be balanced, polished and bug tested.

I asked myself before what PD did all the time from going from GT5 to GT6 and now that same question is in my head again. I expected a 80% plus complete game to be shown but it was not the case. So where did all those efforts go into?

Looking forward to E3 to see what they are going to show and to see what kind of improvements can be done within a month time. Should give an indication of what to expect after another 6 months. Will give PD the benefit of the doubt for their first PS4 installment.

That it may end up being something great on PS4 👍

 

[Aphelion]

But should they not have had 5 tracks finished by now? Honestly it seems like Brands is the only track that was totally finished.

Im pretty sure they will have all tracks around 80-90% finished by now (you know, if they are actually on track for a November release). Just because they didn't show it at the event doesn't mean they haven't started it yet.

I also wonder how to interpret this 50% complete? I can't imagine that is true. They have 6 months to complete the rest of the 50% and on the first they already worked for over 3 years.

Kaz actually said '50% of the quality we would like' or along those lines. he also said that since the team are building their own lighting and physics and everything by themselves, the first half takes a while, whilst the next half takes less.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

But should they not have had 5 tracks finished by now? Honestly it seems like Brands is the only track that was totally finished.

Depends on what they wanted to show - they're not necessarily going to reveal tracks in the order they're finished. There could be tracks that are done but they want to show off at later dates (I suspect this mythical "Settle Short" could be one of them), while they thought using the Nurburgring would be good for this event even though it isn't finished yet.

 

[jm79]

Im pretty sure they will have all tracks around 80-90% finished by now (you know, if they are actually on track for a November release). Just because they didn't show it at the event doesn't mean they haven't started it yet.

Speaking of tracks, would love to see Bathurst in the new engine.

Also, this Tokyo thing will look badass at night with all the neon glow and whatnot.