Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

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Cocomoto
So, i was watching some GTS races in Tokyo Expressway and i have to say, i never cared that much about damage in GT games but, if PD really want to make it a eSport game, the damage got to be efficient enough to people not wanting to "bang" another races.

In the Tokyo race, the guys were running real close, sometimes 4 cars together and bumping each other. Some bumps could easly caused some damage in the cars, but they still running fine.

I played a serious championship in PCars, where i got the silver in LMP2 series and 4th in the overall, running LMP1 and LMP2, so i did a great job. But unfortunally my T300 broke only missing two races to the end, the last i even finished. The point is that sometimes, the racers touh each others, and the chanpionship organizators had to aplly some penaltys to then(star in the pit on the next race, loose seconds, fly-by, etc), and it was really hard to judge who was gulty or not.

I may seems obvious, but it's the true.

I don't expect to the wheel fall off the car in GTS, but i do hope that the cars at least behave like something bad happened after a big crash.
Click to expand...

Yes realistic damage is a realistic behaviour control. But I doubt GTS will have realistic damage and it might not need it. PD have been blunt in saying they want this game to be accessible to anyone and even I have to admit that the more serious a sim gets the fewer people are interested in it. So realistic damage would make the game too unforgiving for those that just want to have some fun racing and what about those guys who enjoy the bumping when racing and think a bump and run is a fun or legitimate tactic? Well I sure don't want to race against them but what if PD can make a game that doesn't exclude anyone?

Enter sportmanship rating. If PD can actually achieve what they are claiming and create a system that matches drivers to their level of sportsmanship then they can actually build an online racer for everyone, wreckers would be paired with wreckers, cheats with cheats and clean with clean. No one is penalised, everyone gets to enjoy the game the way they want to play it.

I would be pleasantly amazed if they pull it off but I'm crossing my fingers real hard for this. I'm crossing my fingers real hard for a lot of things with this game but I'm already amazed that PD are even attempting a online racer so I'm really hopeful for them that they succeed with this and are able to do all they have said and unlike previous promises even though I understand the task they have set is no small task and actually revolutionary if they pull it off the way I hope I have a little bit of hope because I know the goal isn't unreasonable and I know if they work hard they can do it.

It's just history tells me that they will disappoint me.

SimTourist
I'm sure if it was possible someone would've done it already, PBR has existed for a while now, although mostly in CGI up until this generation. It's just a different approach entirely.


Sorry, but what??? Even an old Intel 2500k absolutely demolishes console CPUs, you're kidding yourself if you think they keep up with high end Intel CPUs, AMD processors in general suck compared to Intel and are at least 5 years behind in terms of performance. CPUs are mostly described as the weakest link in this gen consoles and a major bottleneck.
Click to expand...

Read what I wrote again. This was in 2013 and the i7 in question is unknown. But I can understand your doubt because in gaming on PC Intel destroys AMD however even with AMD's currently very outdated CPU's AMD still puts up an impressive fight in productivity benchmarks that take advantage of all their cores. In single threaded applications Intel crushes AMD.

I have no doubt a 6700K will outperform a PS4's CPU's in pretty much any test. But in an optimised test that would max out all cores of your CPU's the very fact that the current consoles have 8 cores actually makes them very comparable in potential to a faster 4 core CPU. Of course you can also get Intel CPU's with more than 4 cores but they are not cheap.

And of course currently this means nothing as far as gaming goes because most developers do not optimise their games for multi core CPU's but if they did the current consoles are very capable machines. Like seriously capable, I haven't even mentioned 8GB of GDDR5 RAM yet, well I have now.

BTW I do not even own a PS4. I have been a PC gamer for some time even though I was aware of this information but now I have 2 PS4's in the house that I got for my kids and I have seen how good gaming is on them I'm really considering handing in my PC master race card.

TwinTurbo LM
Thanks for the source, but I still find it hard to believe that the PS4's CPU is able to outperform an i7.

Also, from what I've seen, AMD's current FX line of processors are able to be beaten by Skylake i3's in gaming, despite the extra cores available - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-intel-core-i3-6100-review
Click to expand...

Yes as I said gaming doesn't use AMD to its full potential but even then the current AMD lineup is well past its used by date, things will change shortly when AMD releases its new CPU's. But again even the current chips do well in productivity when it is optimised for multicore.
 
So 24h over, and not a single footage from GTS. PD ninjas are doing a good job hiding the game. :lol:

I bet they have a much better build to show at e3. If that's not the case then i think this game has a good chance of get a delay. After No Man's Sky I can't stand another delay. Please Polyphony, show us a very evolved build at e3.
 
TwinTurbo LM
despite the extra cores available
Click to expand...


And that should be your first clue, but wasn't. Indie games. They suck. But also they are giving the current generation of console a bad rep. Used to be that games were optimised, used very core in every chip to the max. That is how every console till now has embarrassed PCs with 4 times the power. But then you all went and started paying real money for games that are 20 years old on new hardware and that changed everything. Why make a multi million dollar game with stunning graphics and unique gameplay when one guy in his mums basement releases a slightly higher resolution 16bit era platforming game using a free downloaded game engine and people not only buy it but call it innovative?

What happens is devs realise gamers will buy anything and stop putting effort into games, they buy off the shelf engines which literally have no optimisations for a specific console and graphics potential is wasted. Of course when you literally just compile the PC game engine code with a PS4 flag the PS4 running PC code will perform like a PC would with those specs. Don't blame the hardware, blame the people buying games like firewatch, or any platformer.
 
jpbonadio
So 24h over, and not a single footage from GTS. PD ninjas are doing a good job hiding the game. :lol:

I bet they have a much better build to show at e3. If that's not the case then i think this game has a good chance of get a delay. After No Man's Sky I can't stand another delay. Please Polyphony, show us a very evolved build at e3.
Click to expand...
Well, i hope they show GT Sport on E3 2016.
 
Yeah the gap between real life sounds and most games (except RaceRoom?) is still big but it seems so far with GT Sport it is still huge. Sadly, I can't really see things changing much by release.

There is still E3 so there is still a chance. If we get nothing there or nothing much is improved though...
 
TurismoBad
The most important question...does cars in GTS have horns ?

And can you use horn in FIA race ? Like being in 2nd place, close to first guy and honking furiously before each turn :lol:

Tactical Horn. :P
Click to expand...
I'd rather have the horn swapped out for hazard lights and turn signals.
 
What do you guys think about the new Photo Mode??

I don't like the way they've designed it... It looks awesome, yes, but for me... it has no sense if you put a real image in the background and put the cars over it... The photos we'll make will look great, but due to the real background we're using!! (obviusly, the rendering of the cars is great, but... You know what I mean... I think it has no sense if you make a photo mode with real backgrounds....)

Cheers!
 
sumbrownkid
Yeah we need to throw off the cars behind us. Right turn? Let's indicate left, that will get'em *rubs hands all evil like*.
Click to expand...
Not what I meant. Haha. Watch this weekends N24H and you see what I mean :P

Edit: or any real life race for that matter. Those lights matter
 
We're not halfway done with VGT Project

giphy.gif
 
Noname0529
I'm neutral about the VGT cars, but can they add more real world cars instead?
Most people only use them once, then let them become garage queens.
Also out of 40 of the cars added to GT6, only 16 of the cars were considered real life cars, this includes the recolours and variations of existing cars.
Click to expand...

I think the same.. The VGT cars look great, but, I prefer more real world cars...
 
Toysuprahot
@TrevorPhilips @SimTourist

Is it not wiser to spend time developping a software with an algorithm which converts textures and other assets from one technology to another instead of redoing everything? I would try this instead of losing every cars from the past.
Click to expand...

Firstly, here are the steps I am referring to when I mention them below. These steps obviously are disregarding the steps before, in between and after in the whole creation of an asset. It's a very basic look at things but step 1 is what anybody would consider 'from the ground up'.

Step 1. Create mesh(es) Step 2. Create a UV of mesh(es) Step 3. Create textures and materials

In terms of reworking a model for use with adaptive tessellation I think it's definitely not a viable solution with the differences in topology that is needed for it to function correctly. Even if it is possible manually or via software you are still basically starting from step 1 as step 2 and 3 would be compromised.

So that basically means if every car is being rebuilt for use with AT, the original textures and materials for each car no longer exist, ruling out the need for a program to rework the original textures and materials.

Hypothetically, there is nothing stopping PD from keeping all these 'Premium' cars, reworking the materials and releasing them in GT7 still using the traditional LOD method as with the case in GT6 ('super premium' AT cars, 'Premium' traditional LOD cars, 'Standard' ugly bastard's of a bygone era). So working on that hypothesis, each of these cars would be starting from step 3 and everything below would be basing off of that assumption.

You could work your PBR base textures from your existing texture set if you wanted to, but more likely in PD's case would be working from scratch off of the source models and UV you already have (step 3), you don't need anything new to do that, just using existing software. A manual process would always provide more control and yield a better result for what you want to achieve in the long run.

So basically you might be able to cut corners and probably get just as good a result, you could write some sort of algorithm or a script for use inside an existing program to speed the process to a degree. But with the nature of getting these things to look right each and every time after your first, thus speeding your workflow, you're best off starting a fresh and learning it inside out instead of second guessing.
 
7HO
Yes realistic damage is a realistic behaviour control. But I doubt GTS will have realistic damage and it might not need it. PD have been blunt in saying they want this game to be accessible to anyone and even I have to admit that the more serious a sim gets the fewer people are interested in it. So realistic damage would make the game too unforgiving for those that just want to have some fun racing and what about those guys who enjoy the bumping when racing and think a bump and run is a fun or legitimate tactic? Well I sure don't want to race against them but what if PD can make a game that doesn't exclude anyone?

Enter sportmanship rating. If PD can actually achieve what they are claiming and create a system that matches drivers to their level of sportsmanship then they can actually build an online racer for everyone, wreckers would be paired with wreckers, cheats with cheats and clean with clean. No one is penalised, everyone gets to enjoy the game the way they want to play it.

I would be pleasantly amazed if they pull it off but I'm crossing my fingers real hard for this. I'm crossing my fingers real hard for a lot of things with this game but I'm already amazed that PD are even attempting a online racer so I'm really hopeful for them that they succeed with this and are able to do all they have said and unlike previous promises even though I understand the task they have set is no small task and actually revolutionary if they pull it off the way I hope I have a little bit of hope because I know the goal isn't unreasonable and I know if they work hard they can do it.

It's just history tells me that they will disappoint me.



Read what I wrote again. This was in 2013 and the i7 in question is unknown. But I can understand your doubt because in gaming on PC Intel destroys AMD however even with AMD's currently very outdated CPU's AMD still puts up an impressive fight in productivity benchmarks that take advantage of all their cores. In single threaded applications Intel crushes AMD.

I have no doubt a 6700K will outperform a PS4's CPU's in pretty much any test. But in an optimised test that would max out all cores of your CPU's the very fact that the current consoles have 8 cores actually makes them very comparable in potential to a faster 4 core CPU. Of course you can also get Intel CPU's with more than 4 cores but they are not cheap.

And of course currently this means nothing as far as gaming goes because most developers do not optimise their games for multi core CPU's but if they did the current consoles are very capable machines. Like seriously capable, I haven't even mentioned 8GB of GDDR5 RAM yet, well I have now.

BTW I do not even own a PS4. I have been a PC gamer for some time even though I was aware of this information but now I have 2 PS4's in the house that I got for my kids and I have seen how good gaming is on them I'm really considering handing in my PC master race card.



Yes as I said gaming doesn't use AMD to its full potential but even then the current AMD lineup is well past its used by date, things will change shortly when AMD releases its new CPU's. But again even the current chips do well in productivity when it is optimised for multicore.
Click to expand...
Pic as relevant as ever.
GDyOS.png
 
Prenny
Fans: We want more real life cars!
PD: Here's more VGT Cars
Click to expand...

PD don't really know fans want more real cars, all that they know is that fans are asking for more VGT's on GT6 and that manufactures want to have more of their VGT cars
 
I mean...I like the VGT's, but I can totally understand why others don't like em as much. And I thought they'd be done with the project by now...

As long as you can balance out the amount of VGT's with a good amount of real cars, I'll be happy. Please don't give us countless updates that contain VGT's and give us no normal cars, PD.
 
TrevorPhilips
Firstly, here are the steps I am referring to when I mention them below. These steps obviously are disregarding the steps before, in between and after in the whole creation of an asset. It's a very basic look at things but step 1 is what anybody would consider 'from the ground up'.

Step 1. Create mesh(es) Step 2. Create a UV of mesh(es) Step 3. Create textures and materials

In terms of reworking a model for use with adaptive tessellation I think it's definitely not a viable solution with the differences in topology that is needed for it to function correctly. Even if it is possible manually or via software you are still basically starting from step 1 as step 2 and 3 would be compromised.

So that basically means if every car is being rebuilt for use with AT, the original textures and materials for each car no longer exist, ruling out the need for a program to rework the original textures and materials.

Hypothetically, there is nothing stopping PD from keeping all these 'Premium' cars, reworking the materials and releasing them in GT7 still using the traditional LOD method as with the case in GT6 ('super premium' AT cars, 'Premium' traditional LOD cars, 'Standard' ugly bastard's of a bygone era). So working on that hypothesis, each of these cars would be starting from step 3 and everything below would be basing off of that assumption.

You could work your PBR base textures from your existing texture set if you wanted to, but more likely in PD's case would be working from scratch off of the source models and UV you already have (step 3), you don't need anything new to do that, just using existing software. A manual process would always provide more control and yield a better result for what you want to achieve in the long run.

So basically you might be able to cut corners and probably get just as good a result, you could write some sort of algorithm or a script for use inside an existing program to speed the process to a degree. But with the nature of getting these things to look right each and every time after your first, thus speeding your workflow, you're best off starting a fresh and learning it inside out instead of second guessing.
Click to expand...
I see. AT looks superfluous to me. The cars in GT6 and 5 look more than satisfying imo. What is the logic for PD to prefer rebuilding everything again, as these cars obviously looked good? Normal player, even if aware of AT models, will never sense the difference. LOD as you call it may only need some polishing.
Also thanks @SimTourist for the answer, I had hoped someone would make the effort for building some kind of program to convert to PBR as it seems way more time and cost efficient.
 

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