Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[Johnnypenso]

Dont think so. The T300 has quite strong FFB (unless it was broken or the ffb motors were age worn).

Would be a paradox that for the first time the AI would be improved in the first GT game that the offline mode has almost no importance.

There could be a coding issue causing this within the game. I recall others saying the same thing.

 

[SlimCharles]

Compare to the 500Rs i got with GT6, the FFB on GT6 is stronger at 4, maybe you're right, but it s the first day of the event, or they use an old product i don't know lol, or maybe it s the FFB of GTS
Which it s unfortunate, hope they add event lately with upgrade

Ummm... the T500 is indeed a little bit stronger than the T300, but I dont think it could make a significant difference. Probably it is just a problem of the game. I hope FFB is not a problem in the release... GT always have had great ffb.

 

[Robbks]

Would be a paradox that for the first time the AI would be improved in the first GT game that the offline mode has almost no importance.

What a load of ****
"almost no importance"

The ability to grab one of your cars, pick a track and just go racing is HIGHLY important for most people.
The AI in GT6 Arcade mode (after a number of updates) was much much better than that we were presented with in most seasonal events,
If you picked a car that was not highly modified, and had SM or harder (realistic) tyres the AI was very competitive.

 

[05XR8]

What a load of ****
"almost no importance"

The ability to grab one of your cars, pick a track and just go racing is HIGHLY important for most people.
The AI in GT6 Arcade mode (after a number of updates) was much much better than that we were presented with in most seasonal events,
If you picked a car that was not highly modified, and had SM or harder (realistic) tyres the AI was very competitive.

I'll agree with that. I had some good scraps with AI while using the R35 GT3.

 

[fatkid]

What a load of ****
"almost no importance"

I think you misread or misunderstood. He meant "almost no importance" to PD. As they are more interested in the online mode with a fully fleshed single player GT mode being put on the backburner. And as far a the ai on GT being challenging: handicapping your car to pp levels less than the competition wasn't a very a good way to make the game challenging. Was just bad programming and playtesting. Kind of like finding the difficulty in a boxing game too easy: so having to choose a middleweight fighter to go up against an ai heavyweight, as fighting in the same class is not challenging enough despite being more realistic.

 

[Samus]

The AI isn't much if any better at this stage based on this and previous evidence anyway - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...and-screenshots.331389/page-160#post-11553092

 

[Johnnypenso]

What a load of ****
"almost no importance"

The ability to grab one of your cars, pick a track and just go racing is HIGHLY important for most people.
The AI in GT6 Arcade mode (after a number of updates) was much much better than that we were presented with in most seasonal events,
If you picked a car that was not highly modified, and had SM or harder (realistic) tyres the AI was very competitive.

"Most people"? I highly doubt that. Judging by anecdotal evidence here on GTP, Arcade Mode is about the least talked about mode of the entire game, at least in GT5 and GT6. I daresay people are far, far more interested in either an offline career, Seasonals or online racing. I'd suspect that for most, Arcade is the place you go as a last resort, rather than a top choice.

 

[davidt33]

"Most people"? I highly doubt that. Judging by anecdotal evidence here on GTP, Arcade Mode is about the least talked about mode of the entire game, at least in GT5 and GT6. I daresay people are far, far more interested in either an offline career, Seasonals or online racing. I'd suspect that for most, Arcade is the place you go as a last resort, rather than a top choice.

I endorse what Johnny said. In total.

 

[Zlork]

I would say nothing different of yours
So it s the build with the FRS Toyota and the GT86 adding, graphic, it very clean, very smooth, i saw the guy who drove on Tokyo before me, it s quite good, still some work to do on texture on background ( building), but on the foreground, it very good, lighting, texture, tunnel. On Nurb i love trees lol, the con there still are the white clipping on trees and fenders.

I was allowed to play only 5min on nurburgring lol 4min if i choose the sunny version because the kid ( yes it s a kid who advice you at the stand) who said it s longer than the other one, but it s not
So i wanna test the AI, so i select the hardest difficulty ( professionnal) , then go to driving assist, i notice there are not the 1-10 traction control anymore, Rs tire, abs on 1, active steering off, ffb set on 4.

I drove the Subaru wrx sti, my impression on the driving it s very alive still on RS compared to GT6 who is 'flat', having some ' understeering+rolling' ( i guess ?) if i brake hard and lately, it s what i can only say for the physics, the FFB is a little weak at 4, maybe it s the wheel (T300rs)
For Ai, i really enjoying the race, playing fairly i would say you have to play 80-90% of your skill to catch the 1st, like on seasonnal event on GT6. About how the AI fight, i cant say it yet with only 5min of race, but i overtake on exterior and interior on curb, so i fighting with them and enjoying it myself so it s the important thing

When i left the race ( time limit) i was just overstaking the 5th to be 4th on the curb before the straight for the long O with inclined surface ( i don't know the name sorry lol), and i was 5th for a long period, trying to reduce the gap between me are the 4th, but they keep maintain it, a bit frustrating if i cant do better if i left the race lol so it a good point, i had a clean race, just a little bump on the barrier but not loosing much second ( -0,3s)
So it s my impression for the 5 minutes of Gts, and keep in mind the a low car class, maybe with faster car, the AI wont be more efficiant, but with the Sub class, i push the car very hard and it s a good point not at 100% cause it s my first play and never used to the feeling of T300rs, but easy 85-90%

Thank you for your feedback !

I'm glad to know you're OK with me, especially on AI.

I replayed in Gran Turismo 6 this week-end and clearly, there is no comparison. This time, we must remain focused, we must push car hard, for the duration of the race. The AI is much more competitive and human..... Perfect for relaxing between races online.

I'll try to go to Paris Games Week but I promise nothing. If I go there, my first choice will be Tokyo's track, I loved it !

 

[Samus]

The AI is much more competitive and human

Explain this then - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...and-screenshots.331389/page-160#post-11553092

 

[queleuleu]

A comment from this video


I wouldn't be surprised if it's true...

Ko Shayil y a 18 heures
I tried drifting while playing the demo, but the supervisors got really angry and banned me from playing it during the convention...

 

[Johnnypenso]

Thank you for your feedback !

I'm glad to know you're OK with me, especially on AI.

I replayed in Gran Turismo 6 this week-end and clearly, there is no comparison. This time, we must remain focused, we must push car hard, for the duration of the race. The AI is much more competitive and human..... Perfect for relaxing between races online.

I'll try to go to Paris Games Week but I promise nothing. If I go there, my first choice will be Tokyo's track, I loved it !

I haven't played the game but I haven't seen any video evidence of much improved AI, certainly nowhere near the pace and complexity seen in other games of the genre.

 

[Robbks]

Problem is, much of the video evidence is of bunnies driving, full assists and AI difficulty set on Sunday Drive...

 

[Samus]

Problem is, much of the video evidence is of bunnies driving, full assists and AI difficulty set on Sunday Drive...

No, there are plenty of videos of the "Professional" difficulty and there is little difference. Whether you have assists on has no effect on whether the AI brake stupidly early, yield in corners or fail to defend.

Several people have claimed the AI are much improved, unfortunately no video evidence supports these claims so far.

 

[hankolerd]

No, there are plenty of videos of the "Professional" difficulty and there is little difference. Whether you have assists on has no effect on whether the AI brake stupidly early, yield in corners or fail to defend.

Several people have claimed the AI are much improved, unfortunately no video evidence supports these claims so far.

I have not played GT Sport personally, so I can't say either way, but I think this video might portray what people are talking about. You will notice that as he moves up the field the AI seem to get faster (as you would expect). It is still very much a GT-esque AI implementation - early on the brakes, give away the racing line when pressured, not attempt a pass if it means moving off the racing line, etc. - but there does seem to be a bit more variation in the racing lines than I recall from GT5/GT6, so I would call it an evolution on the AI rather than a revolution. I will have to hold final judgement until the game is released though.

 

[Samus]

I have not played GT Sport personally, so I can't say either way, but I think this video might portray what people are talking about. You will notice that as he moves up the field the AI seem to get faster (as you would expect). It is still very much a GT-esque AI implementation - early on the brakes, give away the racing line when pressured, not attempt a pass if it means moving off the racing line, etc. - but there does seem to be a bit more variation in the racing lines than I recall from GT5/GT6, so I would call it an evolution on the AI rather than a revolution. I will have to hold final judgement until the game is released though.

So except for all of the things that matter, it's much better? Sorry, I don't see it. I mean you only really have to watch the first corner to see it's the same, what was that Aston doing on exit? It's the same old GT fare I'm afraid.

 

[Zlork]

I have not played GT Sport personally, so I can't say either way, but I think this video might portray what people are talking about. You will notice that as he moves up the field the AI seem to get faster (as you would expect). It is still very much a GT-esque AI implementation - early on the brakes, give away the racing line when pressured, not attempt a pass if it means moving off the racing line, etc. - but there does seem to be a bit more variation in the racing lines than I recall from GT5/GT6, so I would call it an evolution on the AI rather than a revolution. I will have to hold final judgement until the game is released though.

On the Gamescom and TGS builds, AI is even better 👍

 

[Imari]

I'd like to see the AI actually racing each other instead of just lining up single file for the player to overtake.

 

[Samus]

On the Gamescom and TGS builds, AI is even better 👍

You keep saying it, we don't see it.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I'd like to see the AI actually racing each other instead of just lining up single file for the player to overtake.

So would I. Seeing all the AI vehicles remain in pretty much the same position for the entire race was annoying. No competition at all; it really was a major gripe in GT6. I hope this changes.

 

[azeeza]

No, there are plenty of videos of the "Professional" difficulty and there is little difference. Whether you have assists on has no effect on whether the AI brake stupidly early, yield in corners or fail to defend.

Several people have claimed the AI are much improved, unfortunately no video evidence supports these claims so far.

If stupid they are, i would be first on the first half of the race
The part where i catch the 4th was the most difficult, cause you cant reduce the gap easily
Still it base on my unique race so

 

[ron86]

You keep saying it, we don't see it.

But i saw it, in a 3 lap race at willow springs. I "only" managed to get to the 7th place after the first lap, starting from 12th. Then as you can see in my gameplay video i spun out and became last. What you cant see in the video is the last lap i drove where i drove clean and couldnt manage a better place than 15th or so.

AI is definitly improved over GT6 and it felt very different to me. There are still issues at some corners where the AI is too slow at the exit (like the last long corner as seen in the video) but in general the AI is definitly more competitive.

And i played an pretty old build where i couldnt choose a time of day variant etc.

 

[Losco]

 

[jm79]

Would be nice to see some new footage to determine who is correct in this battle of AI assumptions.
Far too early to say either way.

 

[Zlork]

You keep saying it, we don't see it.

I saw it. I even wrote a review after my visit at Gamescom.

If you don't believe us, this is your problem. But don't try to discredit us, especially if you have not played a demo.

Would be nice to see some new footage to determine who is correct in this battle of AI assumptions.
Far too early to say either way.

It's not our fault if people choose easy or intermediate mode.

However, I found a video :

 

[Toblakai99]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-10-04-virtual-realitys-driving-force

Interesting article

 

[Tired Tyres]

But i saw it, in a 3 lap race at willow springs. I "only" managed to get to the 7th place after the first lap, starting from 12th. Then as you can see in my gameplay video i spun out and became last. What you cant see in the video is the last lap i drove where i drove clean and couldnt manage a better place than 15th or so.

AI is definitly improved over GT6 and it felt very different to me. There are still issues at some corners where the AI is too slow at the exit (like the last long corner as seen in the video) but in general the AI is definitly more competitive.

And i played an pretty old build where i couldnt choose a time of day variant etc.

20 car race? You passed FIVE cars on the last lap having spun?

 

[y2blade]

I can't count how many hours I've spent on GT6 just in free run mode, or an infinite lap Arcade Race just driving around, not concentrating on winning anything or lap times.
Offline, single-player, driving a cool car around at 7/10ths, like you would if it were your own AMG or MX5 on an open road or track-day.
long tracks like Sierra and Nurburgring are wonderful to drive at reduced pace, you can just get a really nice flow, keep it in 4th and 5th gear for most of it at reduced rev's with the audio cranked up, even some of the vacuum cleaners sound good.

Maybe It's just me, but if it has and engine and wheels, and give me somewhere to drive it, I'll make my own fun.

Way back when the original GT came out, I had a MadCatz wheel, a100% standard AE86 Levin fitted with comfort tyres, I had no idea that drifting even existed, I'd spend hours on the test course seeing how far I could link up drift after drift, spin it out into a 360 and keep going.
At 15 years old , all i was doing was hooning around, but little did I know It was all car-control training.

If people can't make their own fun, that's not the games fault

Well said, I couldn't agree more.

 

[ron86]

20 car race? You passed FIVE cars on the last lap having spun?

I spun in the 2nd lap and passed 5 cars in the clean 3rd and last lap without spinning out..

 

[Fredzy]

GT's AI has always had the capacity to be very fast, as long as I can remember. You see it most of the time in whichever bot leads the race. They sometimes push a respectable pace until you pass them, then they slow down to "defeated" pace. PD chooses to keep the AI slow. This is partly because the AI is not smart enough to properly scrap with even paced opponents - human or AI. Hence the Real Overtaking Simulator. Otherwise I believe it's a brand decision.

There are some promising things being seen in these demo/beta/whatevers. I can't say my hopes are high that we'll see challenging AI in the game that ships. The PD ethos of "it must be perfect or we won't do it at all" gives us a lot of neat stuff, but mostly just prevents them from doing anything innovative or risky. If they haven't managed the execution of competitive AI algorithms by now I imagine they've long ago binned the concept for a variety of brand-consistency reasons and will never address it no matter how hard we cry for improvement.