Hybriding/save hacking arrives in GT6 - Public discussion

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@Exorcet
There is nothing to say to that...you are right.

I forgot Porsches go 750+mph jesus how the hell could PD forget that never mind neglect to make an update for it?

You seem high maintenance. RC Pro time maybe? Dont play the game if you think its what you say it isnt...
 
You can set simultaneous HP/PP/Weight limits in online lobbies. The only way to get a high HP hacked car into a lobby is if those parameters aren't set. Outside of high HP cars that broke the PP system, I believe we showed in GT5 that you can't gain any advantage by anything else you can do to a car because it's realistically reflected in the PP figures. The tools are there in online lobbies, you only need to use them.

TT's and Seasonals are another matter altogether, let's hope PD learned their lesson in GT5 and clamps down on it immediately.
 
JLG_GT
@Exorcet
There is nothing to say to that...you are right.

I forgot Porsches go 750+mph jesus how the hell could PD forget that never mind neglect to make an update for it?

You seem high maintenance. RC Pro time maybe? Dont play the game if you think its what you say it isnt...
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Not to directly divert the purpose of your intention, but let us not forget that there are exploits within the game before modding even becomes an issue that allows one to reach 300 or twice, even three times that.

Remember the suspension exploit in GT3? So the problems lie deeper within than anything the modders have begun to do.
 
p3bucky
I was telling you and others to stop complaining about it because it isn't as easy to crack. And yes, I do want to be able to hack my cars. I want my slammed and stance cars back. I want my engine swaps back and aspiration conversions. That's why I want to get the encryption cracked. I WANT to be able to make the kinds of cars and modifications I WANT, not what PD gives me the options to do. PD leaves these gaps and I'm going to jump for the chance to make them. And don't tell me that I shouldnt play GT then. I've always been and always will be a GT person. No other game even gives the chance to do this stuff, hacking or not. I have Forza and I love the swaps you can do, it just lacks the stancing. Look, I'm sorry your "online experience" was ruined by the little kids with crap loads of hp, but if I want my cars stanced and engine swapped, I'm not going to think twice about the people like you because I know that my cars arent going to affect you.
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Who said anything about not playing GT? I am so sick of people using Strawman arguments on this forum to make a point. You put words in my mouth, then start to make an argument based around those words....

Have you ever thought those restrictions are put in place for a reason? It does not matter what you "want", it is a game, games have rules that have to be followed. If you played football and just "wanted" to break the rules, you would be kicked off the field. Because you are ruining the game for everyone else.

That is the bottom line, it is the people actively trying to hack the game because it is something they "want" [btw, you can't always get what you "want" in this world] that end up ruining the game for everyone else that does not "want" it.
 
Johnnypenso
I believe we showed in GT5 that you can't gain any advantage by anything else you can do to a car because it's realistically reflected in the PP figures.
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Did grip multipliers alter performance points? That would be a concern if not.
 
I liked hybrids in GT5, I mean I only used them for fun, I didn't mess up other people's races like most of these guys do.
I just go onto cruises, meets and show off my slammed, tuned, different cars.
Of course I had 1 999MPH hybrid that I never used really. What I've done is put RWD on most cars so I can drift them... Like a Prius and go online with it. People seemed to enjoy hacking like this online as long as I didn't ruin their play. And this is what it should be like. Of course there will be dicks ruining people's game but as long as you don't ruin peoples game I guess it's acceptable.
I think a lot of people would agree with me and a lot would disagree but I really think that it's okay to hack if you're doing it normally and don't enter competitions or races unless it's with your freinds and they're aware of your hack.
 
Downhill Dino
Did grip multipliers alter performance points? That would be a concern if not.
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Grip multipliers affected PP as did downforce, chassis swaps etc. You throw an E-Type Jag onto an RX-7 chassis you get a car that looks like an E-Type and has the PP of the RX-7 chassis.

I tried and tried and tried to break the PP system and could not. At first I was not a convert to hybriding so I set out to find a way to "cheat" the system. I modded dozens of cars with chassis swaps, engine swaps, adding grip, adding downforce etc. etc. etc. I made some fantastic cars, but none of them were as fast as the fastest cars that already existed at a given PP/Tire combination. None. As in Zero.

And I wasn't alone. Others tried to find combinations that were faster but you couldn't. The best you could do at 500 PP for example would be to swap a given car body onto an NSX or HSC chassis. Then it would be as fast as those cars but no faster.

What it did do was make a helluva a lot of uncompetitive cars very competitive. I added 10% grip to a 69' Vette as one of my experiments and it cornered like an HSC at that point, but my HP got torpedoed under the PP system from 400HP+ at 500PP stock to under 350HP with the added grip. I gained cornering speed and lost straightline speed, but the car was much more balanced in terms of grip vs. top speed and it was now competitive. I swapped out the motor for the Isuzu 3500R for a beautiful V8 sound but it had a similar torque/hp profile and so I gained only better sound, nothing better in the top end or acceleration.

EDIT: The only thing that broke the system was excessive HP. You could build a 2500 HP Evo that would get into a 550PP room, but as I said, PD gave us the tools this time around to deal with that so there's no excuse IMO for hybrids to have any effect on online racing whatsoever, other than to get a much better mix of competitive cars on the grid.

subsist
Who said anything about not playing GT? I am so sick of people using Strawman arguments on this forum to make a point. You put words in my mouth, then start to make an argument based around those words....

Have you ever thought those restrictions are put in place for a reason? It does not matter what you "want", it is a game, games have rules that have to be followed. If you played football and just "wanted" to break the rules, you would be kicked off the field. Because you are ruining the game for everyone else.

That is the bottom line, it is the people actively trying to hack the game because it is something they "want" [btw, you can't always get what you "want" in this world] that end up ruining the game for everyone else that does not "want" it.
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In a perfect world you're right, no one would hack, everyone would follow the rules. Agreed, everyone agrees, end of that discussion. Point conceded, you win, anyone that disagrees with you is wrong and I'm being serious. I had the exact same viewpoint in GT5 as you...at first.

The world is not perfect, people are hacking, now what? You can continue to rail on about a point that is already over and done with which will get you nothing and nowhere, or we can try and figure out ways to deal with this reality that works for everyone. PD has given us the tools to control this in online lobbies so it's really a non-issue in a well hosted lobby. The only way it really affects any of us is if it leaks into TT's then PD will deal with it as they did in GT5.
 
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Hybrids, sooner they are gone the better. Or GT6 will be killed off.
 
With all due respect, a car that looks like a 'vette but walks like a HSC, handles like a HSC, is on the chassis of a HSC with the Engine of a HSC is still a HSC [in other words, if it walks and talks like a duck, it most likely is one] which imo is just as bad to race online. People now think they are up against a certain type of car, choose their race strategy and pick their car accordingly only to be bamboozled by some person who is in all reality really cheating.

There I said it, 'Cheating' because that is exactly what it is. Making a person believe one thing but using an unfair or against the rules advantage to win. be it physical or mental or both in this case, if it is not in the rules, it is cheating.


Johnnypenso
In a perfect world you're right, no one would hack, everyone would follow the rules. Agreed, everyone agrees, end of that discussion. Point conceded, you win, anyone that disagrees with you is wrong and I'm being serious. I had the exact same viewpoint in GT5 as you...at first.

The world is not perfect, people are hacking, now what? You can continue to rail on about a point that is already over and done with which will get you nothing and nowhere, or we can try and figure out ways to deal with this reality that works for everyone. PD has given us the tools to control this in online lobbies so it's really a non-issue in a well hosted lobby. The only way it really affects any of us is if it leaks into TT's then PD will deal with it as they did in GT5.
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I suppose you do have a point, the world is not perfect and there will always be people looking for an unfair advantage, human nature I suppose and some cannot control the urge to gain that advantage, hence people like Lance Armstrong, even the best sometimes cannot resist.
 
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subsist
With all due respect, a car that looks like a 'vette but walks like a HSC, handles like a HSC, is on the chassis of a HSC with the Engine of a HSC is still a HSC [in other words, if it walks and talks like a duck, it most likely is one] which imo is just as bad to race online. People now think they are up against a certain type of car, choose their race strategy and pick their car accordingly only to be bamboozled by some person who is in all reality really cheating.

There I said it, 'Cheating' because that is exactly what it is. Making a person believe one thing but using an unfair or against the rules advantage to win. be it physical or mental or both in this case, if it is not in the rules, it is cheating.
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Technically you are right, but it makes no difference to me if someone is beside me in an HSC or a car that is as fast but looks like a 72' Nissan. If I have enough knowledge of the game to plan a strategy based on the car beside me, then I also have enough knowledge to figure out that someone who qualifies as fast as me in a 72' Nissan is up to something.

Like I said, you're right, I concede that you are going outside the rules of the game. But you cannot gain any advantage on the track with hybriding, other than disguising Lambo as a 69' Camaro which I have no issue with.

Again, you win. Hybriding is here. Now what?

EDIT: Tree'd:lol:
 
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I think a lot of people don't know the difference between cheating and hacking.

Cheat - act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.

Hack - use a computer to gain unauthorized access to data in a system.
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A lot of people see cheating as only the first half of the definition (act dishonestly or unfairly) which is incorrect. You can hack/mod without cheating, and the reverse is also possible (ex: allow suspension but not transmission tuning - no scrutiny board).

i don't believe there is anyone here that defends cheating. Everyone is against it. It is just plain wrong and users should be banned.

But implying that the one who hacks also cheats is not sound. Having a 5000hp RUF is not cheating as long as it isn't used in a event with a determined set of rules (TT, online races). This car offline, or even online, does not constitute cheating by itself because it fails the second criteria of the definition of cheating. The point is that it must be used to gain an advantage. If there is no advantage to be gained (online free run for example) then it's not cheating.

With that said hacking without cheating in the case presented by this thread is fine for me as a player. It doesn't make me less able to do the things I could do before, it doesn't reduce my liberty. It's none of my business how others want to play the game.

Now if the discussion was about hacking alone: moral implications, future implications, the change to the perceived value system, etc... that would be a different matter and would lead me off-topic. In this particular case, for that discussion, we would need to analyse what is the impact on Sony (not just on self as I did above).
 
JLG_GT
I forgot Porsches go 750+mph jesus how the hell could PD forget that never mind neglect to make an update for it?
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They don't need to make an update for it. Top speeds are already in the realm of fantasy without needing to hack.



On-topic: Damn these hackers ruining my online lobby fun with their unrealistic ca... *gets rammed by a redbull car doing 600kph*

On a more serious note, this is easily the best GT6-related news I've heard ever since the game's first unveil. I'm sorry PD but I'd rather have fun with your game now in a way you don't intend, rather than wait for months hoping you might get around to fixing it.
 
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If the actions of the hackers, by not abiding to the terms and conditions of the game, result in restrictions of service of features to those that don't hack, then it's wrong - even if they didn't do it to gain an advantage.

I don't game online at all, so I'm indifferent to the effects competitively, and I understand the attraction of further customisation... in fact, back in the days of GT1 I used to gameshark all kinds of powertrains in to different cars... but.. if PD does decide to act on this, it's the fault of the hackers, simple as that as far as I'm concerned.
 
Divinus
I think a lot of people don't know the difference between cheating and hacking.



A lot of people see cheating as only the first half of the definition (act dishonestly or unfairly) which is incorrect. You can hack/mod without cheating, and the reverse is also possible (ex: allow suspension but not transmission tuning - no scrutiny board).

i don't believe there is anyone here that defends cheating. Everyone is against it. It is just plain wrong and users should be banned.

But implying that the one who hacks also cheats is not sound. Having a 5000hp RUF is not cheating as long as it isn't used in a event with a determined set of rules (TT, online races). This car offline, or even online, does not constitute cheating by itself because it fails the second criteria of the definition of cheating. The point is that it must be used to gain an advantage. If there is no advantage to be gained (online free run for example) then it's not cheating.

With that said hacking without cheating in the case presented by this thread is fine for me as a player. It doesn't make me less able to do the things I could do before, it doesn't reduce my liberty. It's none of my business how others want to play the game.

Now if the discussion was about hacking alone: moral implications, future implications, the change to the perceived value system, etc... that would be a different matter and would lead me off-topic. In this particular case, for that discussion, we would need to analyse what is the impact on Sony (not just on self as I did above).
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Hacking without cheating is ok with me too. The problem is the direct correlation between the 2, it is very hard to cheat without hacking first. Hacking leads to cheating, it is the gateway drug :P
 
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Wow, just read this thread and I got to say that I am completely against the whole idea of hacking / cheating. The game is what it is, if an option that you want is not included there are better ways to make a point than hijacking the code.

I personally think that anyone implementing hacks should be banned. If you gain access to the save file then you could alter your credits and seeing as these are now sold for real money then it is tantamount to stealing. I'm sure SONY and PD would also consider this as theft.

I want to drive realistic cars pitted against other realistic cars, not some joke of a car that can do 800mph.

But what I find most disgusting is that moderators seem to be endorsing this, even speaking of doing this themselves in GT5, not cool man, not cool.

If I ran this site then any moderator giving such opinions would not be a member of the site anymore let alone continue moderating.

Just to be clear, altering any aspect of the code is against the terms and conditions set by SONY and PD and anyone caught doing this should be banned from PSN.
 
If pd actually gave us a game that is complete with what we actually expected there would be no need for hacks.
 
Justin
No, the game got ruined when parents bought their immature 12 year olds a PS3 and GT6(as well as every other online-enabled game). Hacking can't even ruin time trials as PD did it themselves by making SRF an option.

So yeah, saying hacking is ruining the game is like saying an STD ruins a hooker.
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Silly comparison. I agree with the whole SRF issue in the TT's but that hardly ruins these events because everyone can use said aid thereby making things even and fair between the ones going for spots on the leaderboards. So no, SRF hardly ruins the TT's. Hacking, on the other hand, turns the leaderboards into one big cheatfest and presents an unfair challenge for those running the event legitimately. Hackers take up spots on the leaderboards that should otherwise go to those players who are not cheating with hacked cars. So, your statement above that I have bolded, is really like comparing apples to oranges. SRF is not even close to ruining the TT's in the way that hacking can.
 
This is really a useless argument. In reality, I could care less what anyone does. Somehow I got myself playing devils advocate when I am really not completely against this. I just was making a simple observation in my first post (granted it may have come off the wrong way.)

I can see valid points for both sides. However, complaining is not in my vocabulary so I play the game and bite my lip on annoyances in the game.

I also feel that the current state of GT allows us to have an incredible balance between sim racing and arcade racing. And the user can control the environment they choose to play in. Like many people have mentioned online filters are nice things to have to sort out people/cars that dont fit you criteria.

On the contrary, I also think there needs to be vast improvements to these options. PD may have spread themselves thin trying to accommodate the masses with all of these different style events. Rather than focusing on the popular Career and online features. Then once those are smooth then add the extra bennies in. Just my take and it is what it is.

If modding is your thing then so be it. It does single out a certain group who have the ability and know-how to mod. So, to me thats a bit uneven but not a big deal to me personally. I also feel the sense of having a unique car or setup is also entertaining. To be able to "realistically" construct a car basically from scratch is kinda cool.

TTs could be a major issue with this...havent expanded on this yet! Guess i should get myself outta this mess i somehow got my big mouth into! Lol

And dont quote me paragraph by paragraph with wise ass remarks...
 
GTLeigh
I personally think that anyone implementing hacks should be banned. If you gain access to the save file then you could alter your credits and seeing as these are now sold for real money then it is tantamount to stealing. I'm sure SONY and PD would also consider this as theft.
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They seemed to let it slide when people started selling Vision Mercedes'.

GTLeigh
But what I find most disgusting is that moderators seem to be endorsing this, even speaking of doing this themselves in GT5, not cool man, not cool.

If I ran this site then any moderator giving such opinions would not be a member of the site anymore let alone continue moderating.
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How interesting that you feel moderators for a completely-non-Sony-affiliated website would only pass the muster if they were enforcing Sony's Terms of Service rather than those of this site.
 
Geez, didn't expect to see a hybrid car in GT6 this soon. Something tells me that the process of modifying GT6 save file is probably the same as it was with GT5.
 
Decrypting the save is the hard part, finding the right area of the save to mod really isn't that difficult using tools that are built into the programs.
 
If everyone is worried about hacking online, you should be more concerned with the cars that dominate each PP setting. Online racing has never been fun to me because there will always be unfair races based on PP/HP. They are usually the cars I don't want to use so I mostly just free run with people and try to have fun that way.
 
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