Lancia Stratos 15th Aniv Undriveable ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gabe Logan
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SPORTVAN
I have politely asked to leave it there :confused:
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I went and tried the Stratos because of this thread, because my initial reaction was that people didn't know how to drive it. Then i tried it. Then i tried it with sports soft.

It does spin easy, and in a way that doesn't quite make sense all things considered. It's not the only car i've noticed that has odd handling, it's just the most accentuated i've seen thus far.

That said, after reading your posts, your points aren't valid, yet you vehemently tout them and get emotional about all of this. You're not doing yourself any favors with how you debate.
 
SPORTVAN
OMG ..another... im not saying its easy.. but two pro drivers are...

All I am saying is the physics in GT are wrong.. the car spins to easily.. and the grip levels of the tyres are not right. There are other cars too ... but If I mention anymore i'll maybe be kicked from the forum for bad mouthing GT... and proving its faults.
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The problem is that you're not proving anything, what you should be saying is that you're trying to "point out" GT's faults, not prove. Proving something takes a lot more than what you have thus provided. Just because two drivers anecdotally mention how easy a car is to drive in real life does not just turn into a closed case that the entire physics model in GT6 is flawed. But that'necessarily.. oint is it? That's right, because every game has faults, and absolutely no one is going to get upset over a few cars being off when there's so many others drive beautifully.

The way they set up this car was definitely not their best work, but that doesn't have to be evidence of GT's entire physics model being flawed necessarily.

Also, stop double posting so much, edit your old post if you want to say more. And kicking people for talking negatively about GT? No, we don't do that. We only do that to people that abuse members or constantly instigate bad arguments, so don't turn into that and you'll be fine. Lighten up.
 
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watermelonpunch
I kind of thought of all that as being part of its charm. ;)
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On topic.. anyone got a decent tune for tgis car, at 450 or 500? Its very fun to drive as it is. But it cant exactly take the quickest line around a track, as you have to be very carefull on the throtlle to keep it smooth. i figure some stiffer springs would help, also think lsd tuning would do it wonders. Im new to gt6 tuning so im just getting used to the basics.

I dont want to lose the fun factor of this car, i had a blast running through the first cpl chsmpionships, as is. I just want to clean it up a little so i can get on the throttle earlier, and keep it stable under throttle on sweepers. Corner entry oversteer could be better too.

I think the lsd tuning would make a good difference on the slower speed corners. Just wish i had a better understanding on how lsds work in gt6. Any links to help me understand how tge lsd settings work on this game would be smick.
 
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It's a horrible little car and should be killed with fire.

Put loads of ballast on the front that should sort it out.
 
I'll quote something :
It was never sopposed to be a road car anyway, and emmepica knows what World Rally Champion Sandro Munari had to say about it:5

It was completely unpredictable. He could have done the same things in the same corner and the car reacts in a very different way. The windshield was so curved that the view was distorted. And when driving a Stratos, keep in mind that the car will oversteer and that the tank is between you and the engine, so a rear impact can easily become fire.

This is from some stupid article from Jalopnik about 10 most difficult cars to drive :D > http://jalopnik.com/the-ten-most-difficult-production-cars-to-drive-677258770

Stratos is hard to drive and once you spin out you're dead . You have to know exact speed you can drive through turn, so it is trial and error till you learn track. Once you know that you're ok & quite fun till you forget that. But is no go at high speed > car is short , mr & powerfull. + it is 30years old.
For fun/time trials I use It on matterhorn , cockpit wiev and wheel , but it is not a car I'd race a race with it .
 
Just stick some softer tyres on the rear! that's what I did to my RUF yellow bird and it handles a treat now, with more progressive understeer!! Same as my Alpine..

 
JEMcG
Put loads of ballast on the front that should sort it out.
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:scared: Yeah, so you'll go from having a slidey car to having one that will drive like my shopping trolly cart at the grocery store when I have a big bag of cat box litter shoved up against the front. :boggled:
 
The first time I tried this car, I found it horrible to drive and told myself that I would never use it again as it seemed to want to spin at every corner no matter how I entered the corner. However, having realised that quite a few of the cars I had tried in the game so far had serious suspension issues regarding excessive body roll and that this car was the same, I went and changed the suspension to the "racing firm" one and, since then, I have loved driving it. The body roll is almost gone and, while it does sometimes want to spin, it is much easier to handle. I also added ballast to give it a 50-50 balance and that seems to have also helped. Went back to the Anniversary Seasonal yesterday and did a 55 second lap which is very good for me as I always suck at the TT seasonals.
 
watermelonpunch
:scared: Yeah, so you'll go from having a slidey car to having one that will drive like my shopping trolly cart at the grocery store when I have a big bag of cat box litter shoved up against the front. :boggled:
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Lol sorry I meant transfer some from the back to the front. About 47-53 should be nice while still retaining some of the craziness and character of the wee hell mobile. I would go for 50-50 and deal with the weight increase and just totally kill it.
 
Well, I got my GT6 Limited Ed a few hours ago, and a few minutes ago did around 5 laps at Nurb GP/F driving stock Lancia Stratos 15th Anniversary Edition, no ABS or any other aids, and fitted the proper factory tire - comfort hard. My lap in GT5 with stock Stratos with just below 200HP was 2:47s, with the GT6 Stratos I got 2:40 low on 1st lap, the car is a bit unstable when trail braking, but with smooth steering and braking, I managed to tame it, ran low 2:39s easily on the next few laps. I did the run using Arcade Time Trial mode. Grip set to real with 9/2 brake balance. I really like the new physics, much more alive, better feedback and a whole lot easier on the limit. Braking physics also miles better than in GT5.
 
Gabe Logan
... or is it me ?

Seems backend just won't stick to the road. Every corner ends up spinning the thing and Traction Control or softer tires have no effect.

Seems very broken to me.
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The Aniverssary Stratos is not broken. It works great. You just need to be a good driver. I used it on SEVERAL series for the National A and B groups. It works.

YOU HAVE TO SLOW DOWN TO YOUR CORNERING SPEED BEFORE YOU TURN IN. It will also help you even more if you do all your braking before the turn and then crack open the throttle at turn in and roll onto it (slowly) through the apex.

This car wants to be on the back wheels while turning. If you are nose down when you turn in, the back will wash. If you are neutral to slightly rear loaded when you turn in, it will be fine. It is a bit like one of the RR Rufs. Brake first and accelerate all the way through the corner.

This is a big think I'm seeing in the online forums. YOU HAVE TO SLOW DOWN TO TURN. And it is much easier to make a pass stick if you are passing coming out of the corner. That is you want a higher exit speed than your opponent, and a higher entry speed means you are probably doing it wrong. You want to be trying to out-racing line your opponent, not out brake them. Until you get good that is...
 
SidsCycleShop
IMVHO there have been several MR cars in the GT series that give you little, if any warning at the limit. My general remedy has been to actually go a bit more conservative, i.e. slightly softer springs & dampers and harder tires, especially in the rear. Yes, you do sacrifice grip (and you'll have to take the corners a little slower, which is not all bad) but most cars are more forgiving.
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Softer setup gives you MORE grip. The only reason for a hard setup, anywhere, is to limit suspension movement in the camber, castor, and toe arenas. A hard setup is a bandaid for poor suspension dynamics.

A hard suspension forces weight transfer. So more weight is taken off the inside and felt by the outside tires. That means two tires are doing the work of four. All other things being equal, you will get higher grip with all four tires doing the work.

A hard setup is good in that it means higher damper rates (so quicker transitions but easier to lock up and to slide) and higher spring and roll bar rates (so less wheel movement vertically but also more weight transfer). The less travel, the less dynamic effects on castor and camber mostly, and often toe. Many many times, especially on road cars, lots of compromises are made in suspension design for the sake of price, packaging, and comfort. These compromises often mean the tire is moved around in disadvantageous ways. The tread is tilted off the pavement when the wheel moves up and down. So to stop the wheel being tilted off the pavement, you limit wheel travel by making things stiffer.

Look it up.
 
Skeletor27
Downgrade the front tires by at least 2 compounds. I.e. hard tires up front, soft in the back. It actually drives "normal" that way and handles very well.
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I think you're just trading problems for other problems when you do stuff like that.
 
fordskydog
Don't do this. Learn how to drive it properly instead. This is a horrible band aide fix.
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You're a horrible band aid fix.

watermelonpunch
I think you're just trading problems for other problems when you do stuff like that.
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Yea, I traded the problem of undriveability for the problem of it handling good enough to really enjoy the car and win some events.

When I did the Italia event at Monza with no chicanes, I could barely keep the thing in a straight line at high speed. It was oscillating and swaying all over the place without any steering input. First sweeper, I was screwed. I think this is a great temporary fix for those who don't use a wheel, not as talented, or just need it to pass a few events. If you're serious about driving this car or others similar in characteristics, then I agree, this isn't the best solution.
 
IMHO the Stratos is one of the best handling cars in the GT games. It's a very different car to drive, that's all. Part of the fun of the GT series is learning to drive the different cars the way they should be driven. I humbly suggest that instead of messing about with mixed tires or weight distribution you *learn* to drive it the way it was designed - once you do that you'll understand exactly why it is considered one of the greatest rally cars of all time. Easy to drive? Nope. Rewarding? Yep… And trust me, it's worth it...
 
panjandrum
IMHO the Stratos is one of the best handling cars in the GT games. It's a very different car to drive, that's all. Part of the fun of the GT series is learning to drive the different cars the way they should be driven. I humbly suggest that instead of messing about with mixed tires or weight distribution you *learn* to drive it the way it was designed - once you do that you'll understand exactly why it is considered one of the greatest rally cars of all time. Easy to drive? Nope. Rewarding? Yep… And trust me, it's worth it...
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This post kind of highlights the dichotomy of this whole thread. To most GT pilots I would assume that "best handling" would mean something along the lines of, reasonably predictable handling, progressive loss of grip, easier to feel the limits and correct mistakes, able to induce under or oversteer relatively easily as needed etc. For most people, that's not the Stratos.

On the other hand, some GT pilots are more into the challenge of mastering a tail happy car and in this case, a car with major historic significance, mainly for the challenge of it. There's no doubt it's challenging and neither viewpoint is "correct" but I would guess few people would characterize the Stratos as one of the "best handling" cars in the game.
 
I certainly hope it's an issue of the definition of "well handling car"...
Because otherwise @panjandrum needs to lay off the sauce & maybe get a brain scan. :lol:

I love the Stratos. But a well behaved car it is not. :boggled:
 
This is true; everyone's definition of "great handling" can be different. But I think that there is some universal truth that a great handling car should be capable of incredible performance (especially when taken into the context of the historical era when the car was built). I suggest, based on the historical record of the Stratos, that it is indeed a great handling car, we just need to learn to be good enough drivers to handle it. And yes, it took me a LONG time to learn to drive the Stratos (back in GT4 days) even though I have driven RR cars IRL my entire life. I certainly didn't anticipate any MR car to be more "wayward". But once you learn to drive it then "click" it all makes sense. It's not a car for relaxing in, it's a car that requires constant intense concentration, and it won rally after rally after rally. What a glorious machine. One of my favorite cars of all time, along with the Alpine A110 which was a great rally car just before the Stratos came onto the scene.

For fun go watch some Lancia Stratos videos on YouTube, it's a riot. Sideways all the time!
 
Thats the things, i never said its hard to drive just you have to drive differently. And that video was bad evidence, slow in, slower out even on wide slicks, was for show to test new tyres. And hes a Professional not a gamer, so there is no learning curve. I can one hand it at that speed too in game but flat out off road is different, mastering the spin is key as it will happen either way. One way to solve this debate is a stratos race!
Second part of this says alot.
http://www.sportscarmarket.com/columns/profiles/race/5365-1974-lancia-stratos-groupe-4
 
watermelonpunch
But you have to admit that when most people around here say a car handles well, they mean the exact opposite of that. Right? You do realize that?
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Hmmm. Ok, but by that definition a Toyota Prius is a "Better handling" car than the Stratos... And by no *objective* motorsports viewpoint would that be true. Now, a person can *like* the handling of a Prius more than they *like* the handling of the Stratos, but that doesn't make the Prius a better handling car, it just means someone likes it more. There is a world of difference... But yes, I do realize that many people like very stable cars.

Here is a great video of the Stratos in rallies. Worth watching all the way through. Notice that the drivers only let it step-out a small amount unless they are going *very* slowly, only letting the rear swing extremely wide on occasion.



And I'll leave you with a mantra that everyone driving rear or mid-engined cars should learn to love: "don't lift... don't lift... don't lift...." (As in, don't lift your right foot all the way off the gas pedal when you carry too much speed into a corner, that's when you spin. Something a lot of Porsche owners learned to their dismay...)

P.S. For a long time now I've theorized that the way PD makes the cars feel so unique and so special in the GT series is by exaggerating their handling characteristics. Thus cars that are "stable" become "very stable" and cars that are "twitchy" become "very twitchy". I don't think that's a bad thing though, since if there is one thing that GT does better than the other sims it's giving you that feeling that you are driving that-specific-car and no other. But that may also explain why the Stratos is so very, very difficult to master.
 
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No, the Prius wouldn't qualify as a good handling car. :boggled:

A good handling car drives well & easily, with maneuverability & speed... yes, stability is in there. But for pity's sake, most race cars are far more stable than the Stratos.
It's the whole enchilada... stability while maneuverable. You can't just pick & choose & say maneuverable = well behaved.
 
watermelonpunch
for pity's sake, most race cars are far more stable than the Stratos.
It's the whole enchilada... stability while maneuverable. You can't just pick & choose & say maneuverable = well behaved.
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Absolutely true. Nobody would call the Stratos well behaved, and I bet it would be very difficult to find a less stable car of any kind. It was made for rallies, and that's really where it shines. Brilliance and madness in one...
 
What I like from the Stratos in GT6 is I can enter and exit a corner with a variety of different style, be smooth with braking, glide into the apex and exit with slight oversteer, it can. Swing the rear on entry and big angle on exit, it can. Stable entry and exit with no loss of traction, it can too. When I looked at my replay, I see that everything has to be gradual + precise ( brake, steering and gas ) in order to minimize loss of traction - and never fully lift off the throttle, unless the car need to lose traction on purpose.
 
2 words.
Throttle Steer.
Driving this beast is a real challenge ,but you get a massive grin when you get it right. Plenty of sideways action round corners with screeching tyres to boot!. I think IMO these are the cars that keep GT interesting. I love drivin this car.
 
With the stratos, i think of it as the car that diffined the term "lift off oversteer" and love it for it.
 

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