New update physics discussion

[superwally]

When I hit the brakes in my real car, my body moves forward, the pedal has resistance, and I get far more visceral cues to what is happening in the car than any game could ever provide without a fully acutated, movable simulator. A game MUST have compromises to deal with the lack of accurate physical sensations to your body-braking is the area most evident to me, the soft DFGT pedal gives me nothing, I have to rely on sound and visuals.

Just because it feels easier (to some of you), doesn't mean it's less accurate. It very well may be that both are true, but it doesn' have to be so.

Just like in the tuning threads, there are plenty of opinions here but not always from those I've seen melting the track with their laptimes.

I think subjective discussions like this eventually are more driven by the desires of the personalities involved than what is acutally happing with the physics of the game.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

Ah, but you see, that is exactly my point! It is more fun for you because it is easier. It is less fun for many of us for that exact same reason. We want it to be more realistic than it currently is. It is simply too easy, even in pro mode. It isn't realistic it doesn't feel as much like a sim anymore. Hence the need for a system to control the difficulty, so that YOU AND I CAN BOTH BE HAPPY.

It doesn't have to be a "standard" and "pro" thing - they could simply make the computer-assists much more aggressive. Maybe people would be happier that way.

But the fact that you simply can't see, or don't seem to care, that many of the "purest" drivers here find these updates lacking is disturbing. I don't understand why anyone would argue for a solution which reduces the enjoyment for a significant group of people when there are such simple ways to remedy the situation.

Ok I tried, but you dont understand... Its more fun because its more realistic now, not easier... I dont care how easy it is. Really not !

Those "purest" drivers are probably rubbish racers then.
significant group... how many ??
Most customers want it to be fun and as realistic as possiple, i can assure you.

Last thing sorry, but you say its too easy now, how about you put N1 TIRES on and try Suzuka PRO race or something similar and then come back here telling us your result.
Should be P1 though since its so too easy

 

[code131158]

how come you guys think it's easier now? It was easier before the update, what has changed really? I've been on for 3 hours and think everything is more difficult - I slide around more, the breaks are different, lap time is 1 sec+. What is real? I don't know, but I thought last update really nailed it - I'll probably think the same in a couple of days/week. Anyways, what I've discoverd for myself is: Old tunes doesnt work anymore. R3 isnt as grippy as before (at least not with the same tune..hmm) Now I have to reconfigure tunes to match my driving style. And I think that has to be the case - it's easier for some - more difficult for some others - depends on their driving style. But we'll change our driving style to adapt this. But I trust PD knows what they're doing and who their fans are - this new thing has to better then the last in terms of realistic....

 

[Chronos]

all we need is some dude who drives a variety of fast motors to give up their opinion, chronos comes to mind.

if this update is more realistic then i'll embrace it with both arms, im always up for realism, even if it makes the game easy.

Tiff Needel comes to mind, but he'd be promoting the game if it was positive and would need a contract, then people will say its just marketing talk. He would probably get fed up after a minute and start drifting anyway

My own humble opinion on a couple of hours play is the tyre grip is more realistic around the limit. The cars feel looser and I can get the back end out easier and use the throttle, before it was nullified with little variation in the previous update. My main grumble was the fun driving the Z06 512 and Art Morrison etc was removed or squashed last time, where as some said it's spot on and more real. Driving a RWD on N and S tyres felt like being chaperoned. Now its more reminiscent to what I've experienced. The fun is back in my opinion.

I would like the old physics/tyres with tweaks and much more emphasis on weight shifting for all car types in cornering and under braking with realistic lap times to real life. A better wheel with varied FFB stopping short of a cockpit simulator to convey this is needed I think. Ferrari Challenge with the G25 is quite good in this aspect.

 

[Synwraith]

The first thing I did post-update was head straight back to Suz 750 on Pro to try out the Corvette/Tuned I had done a million laps in. Straight away I noticed increased oversteer and noticeable twitchiness. It's definitely not as nailed on R3s as it was before, certainly not the back end. I had to refine my tune immediately, reduced the power and increased rear aero to max but it still stepped out way more than before on even a lower Aero setting.

As for the Rubberband effect, I still feel that being behind allows you a boost, but maybe the frontrunners don't suffer as much loss of grip and speed. I didn't feel like I was running to my full potential in order to judge head-of-field laptimes.

One thing I did notice is that on the exit of spoon, even when I'm drifting wide, the cars still juuuust hold on and allow me to perfectly hit the rumble strip after a tiny amount of sand-riding. The last time I was able to do that was in Suz 600PP in the Imprezas after nailing it halfway through Spoon 2. That brought back some mighty fine memories, and I've found the Evora capable of holding it there too on max throttle from halfway. Before this update, I recall the slightest touch of eager throttle and understeer on Spoon 2 lead to a proper trip onto the sand on the right hand side. It seems less so now.

BTW, I'm using d-pad on sixaxis for steering and L2/R2 for brake/throttle.

All the best
Maz

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

how come you guys think it's easier now? It was easier before the update, what has changed really? /edit/ I don't know, but I thought last update really nailed it - I'll probably think the same in a couple of days/week.

Last update was pretty good, but now i think they nailed it.
Its strange some say it got easier / some say harder, true...
I don't think it got easier overall, only controllability is smoother now.
As for why it's more difficult for you, I don't know
My old tunes work just well and as I said before it took me only a few seconds to get used to 'it' ( from start to 1st corner at Suzu ) .
Probably you need just a bit more time . You have to be more sensitive with your inputs since the cars are actually doing now what you tell them to do i.e. are more responsive 👍

 

[DaddyVDUB]

Just want to toss this out there I noticed a strangething today mayby I've just got it in my head so it seems real to me. Done a lot of races at F2007 Daytona Road today seems on lap 1 I've got cold tires braking forward bite & cornering are all off mid race sticks bite of corner late race sliding. now I know how far ahead or behind other cars are effects grip, but it has seemed more noticable . think mayby there playing with tire temp as in GT3&4 what do you guys think.

 

[Keef]

I'll have to download and try the new update this weekend. I'm an advocate of real-life car physics, so I'll have to see what they've done with it.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

Thanks PD, you 🤬 everything up again. The AM Corvette was spinning in ludicrous places at HSR just now, what a load of crap. This was the reason you had to change it in the first place, it was like driving on ice, and now we're back to square 1. All we're going to see now is a complete dominance of AWD again, with RWD not even being a viable option.

 

[RoboKrikit]

You're gonna see a dominance of AWD in real life, too. Highly-powerful RWD cars are supposed to be twitchy.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

OK, square 1 was a little harsh, it does seem pretty real, sorta kinda I guess. At least we can tune the crap out of them.

You're gonna see a dominance of AWD in real life, too. Highly-powerful RWD cars are supposed to be twitchy.

And highly powered AWD cars do nothing but understeer.

 

[RoboKrikit]

And highly powered AWD cars do nothing but understeer.

They seem to be understeering their way through the Nordschleife pretty quickly these days.

 

[NLxAROSA]

All we're going to see now is a complete dominance of AWD again, with RWD not even being a viable option.

Nothing us tuners can't fix right? What has me worried is the fact that they changed the way the Sixaxis controller works. Previously it was not an issue if I tuned using just the wheel, as it would work on Sixaxis just as well. But I'm getting several signals that this is not the case anymore. I have yet to do some research, but I suspect tuning may take more time now because I have to tune with both wheel and Sixaxis to get it right (if possible at all, I'd have to look into it).

 

[Taranta]

👎 in Italy means giochino, in english piece of cake or playfull or toy or ...... make fun of .....

PD, you are lost

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

They seem to be understeering their way through the Nordschleife pretty quickly these days.

There is one fast car at Nürburgring that's AWD and it's the GTR. IRL the ZR1 is faster, yet I'm sure if we drove both on GT5 the GTR would come out on top every time.....

 

[Soundtrack]

Hi,

I’m happy to see some respected Tuner’s input here. I don’t really understand this debate about Understeer/Oversteer issues making the physic's engine more or less real or accurate.

Every F1 Grand Prix week-end you can ear the drivers complaining about these handling issues, the lack of grip level, traction, etc... Does that mean F1 teams build bad cars?

There are many obvious demonstrations in the tuning sections here, that about any car in the game can be seriously modified. Even that GT LM becomes - in some modest perspective for me - manageable. (G25 wheel No assists)

My every day ride will hardly make it too GT5, and my track experience does resume in some main-entry karting sessions with a bunch of friends and beers.

I do respect inputs by experienced drivers here and understand their desire for GT games to remain their favorite PS/Racing franchise. I’m too looking for the best gaming experience possible, and believe this update is heading the right way.

I do not want the game to turn into ultra-unmanageable-hardcore-fans simulation because “fun” is a needed part of any selling game. And in that perspective those “average schmuck(s)” (no offense but “casual gamers” with sixaxis controllers sounds more appropriate) are the million ones that brought the game to his success.

My 2 cents

Ps: Holden, I also like the RWD’s more but there’s little we can do against the GT-R (what will the tuned version be like?). Looks like Nissan will always get a special place in GT games...

 

[Quattro20v]

And highly powered AWD cars do nothing but understeer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hskTWUx2vw

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hskTWUx2vw

Congratulations, you found some purpose built race cars with all the race slicks and downforce they need to compensate for the extra power they cart around.

 

[myke6699]

Ferrari Challenge with the G25 is quite good in this aspect.

When I bought a copy of FC and as being a G25 user, I was looking forward to the game after hearing good things (and a few bad ones) about it. After spending hours trying to get comfortable with the FFB setting in the game, I finally picked up (out of frustration) the DS3 controller and found tht it works better than the wheel. There's something about the way System 3 implemetation of the FFB in the game that th the F430 doesn't quite feel like a car. The only thing it has going for is that it takes enormous amount of effort (both physically and mentally) to get through a lap and if some people equate it as being more reaistic, I respect their opinion but for me, it's such a wasted effort.

 

[Dragonistic]

Well I spent some time with the new physics, its incredibly frustrating with a sixaxis and has put me off the game possibly for good. Online racing is now as near as makes no difference impossible for all but the top controller users as it's just far to sensitive. I came to terms with it all right, but I can't see everyone making the transition so quickly without having a wheel. As for realism, it certainly feels faster which is good, cars understeer realistically and it is generally more real in behaviour terms, but the over sensitivity is likely going to ruin it.

However, trying the drifting made me notice that it's much easier to exit a slide cleanly and can keep it on the black stuff easier then before (on S1s at least).

 

[SammiTougeGirl]

What Dragon said, I dont think Ill be playing anymore.
The main problem Im having with the new physics is that now I dont have a clue what the car is doing.
Somtimes I think its sliding, go to correct and find that its not, sometimes the other way round.
So I have to actually see the car to know whats going on....
I only have a controller so I dont know what its like with a wheel, but this sucks.
I cant wait for MCLA, I bet it will be more fun.

 

[mr_VOLCANO]

Ok I tried, but you dont understand... Its more fun because its more realistic now, not easier... I dont care how easy it is. Really not !

Those "purest" drivers are probably rubbish racers then.
significant group... how many ??
Most customers want it to be fun and as realistic as possiple, i can assure you.

Last thing sorry, but you say its too easy now, how about you put N1 TIRES on and try Suzuka PRO race or something similar and then come back here telling us your result.
Should be P1 though since its so too easy

I dont know if you have tested N1 before and after update..? well, I tested RX7 N1 yesterday and it was noticeable easyer dont remember lap times, but places I useally had to lift of throttle I could just go full throttle ..

 

[Robin]

Races I couldnt win before I won with ease just now so its either the physics have got better or they have got easier.... or my skills have dramatically improved since yesterday!

Robin

 

[RedBaron]

I got into new physics last night and can say that car handling is more concrete, understeer is as smooth as in real life is, throttle control and oversteer are now more controllable, especially in low speeds. Initially I was really embarassed by overly sensitive sixaxis control, especially at Daytona. But you can now make fast corrections also. I like new physics and am very pleased that PD is constantly working on that.

I am surprised that there are people who hate to test this constantly developed game and blame physics changes. If there wasn't Prologue, we would have no PS3 Gran Turismo to drive at all!

 

[Daniel_Elessar]

i had a great time again.

the GTR was a hell driving it with my new DFGT wheel, now its got better, so i don't really know if it's better physics or easyer...

btw the GTR race car is awsome!

 

[Soundtrack]

btw the GTR race car is awsome!

Fortunatly, this one's a rear wheel drive. Keeping every one happy?👍

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

I dont know if you have tested N1 before and after update..? well, I tested RX7 N1 yesterday and it was noticeable easyer but places I useally had to lift of throttle I could just go full throttle

Lift off is never a good thing, watching F1 and other series I never see them lift off, unless they're forced to by another driver ...

I got into new physics last night and can say that car handling is more concrete, understeer is as smooth as in real life is, throttle control and oversteer are now more controllable, especially in low speeds. Initially I was really embarassed by overly sensitive sixaxis control, especially at Daytona. But you can now make fast corrections also. I like new physics and am very pleased that PD is constantly working on that.
I am surprised that there are people who hate to test this constantly developed game and blame physics changes. If there wasn't Prologue, we would have no PS3 Gran Turismo to drive at all!

+1 👍

 

[Scaff]

Lift off is never a good thing, watching F1 and other series I never see them lift off, unless they're forced to by another driver ...

I think you may be taking his comment the wrong way. Rather that corners that may have previously needed 80-90% throttle to make, can now be made with the throttle fully-open.

While a full lift of the throttle is not ideal in racing, you do most certainly need to vary the throttle position, after all its not an On/Off switch.

Regards

Scaff

You're gonna see a dominance of AWD in real life, too. Highly-powerful RWD cars are supposed to be twitchy.

OK, square 1 was a little harsh, it does seem pretty real, sorta kinda I guess. At least we can tune the crap out of them.



And highly powered AWD cars do nothing but understeer.

They seem to be understeering their way through the Nordschleife pretty quickly these days.

There is one fast car at Nürburgring that's AWD and it's the GTR. IRL the ZR1 is faster, yet I'm sure if we drove both on GT5 the GTR would come out on top every time.....

Both of you are talking in wildly general terms, example could easily be found to both support and discredit either of these examples.

As such all you are doing is taking this thread off-topic and risking starting a silly argument.

Neither of which are options that will be allowed to happen.

Please think a bit more constructively before your next post in here, because if this sliding into flaming I will get involved.

 

[mr_VOLCANO]

hybrid. comparing super grippy F1 with N1 RX7...?? thats just wrong. if you see onboard videos from suzuka with road cars, its not often they hit full throttle..

as scaff pointed out I didnt mean full lift off... 👍

 

[Dragonistic]

I've spent some more time with it now in my Viper/Tuned, it feels pretty good if still very sensitive, but im down into the 1:57s again so progress is good.