- 1,090
- Norwich
- TheNorfolkDad
Penalty System Changes Are On The Way to GT Sport This Week
- Thread starter GTPNewsWire
- 237 comments
- 19,726 views
- 71
- Lincolnshire
- Beevster
They could do more on the first few corners of the race, I've had some major contact in the first corners go un-noticed.
And as mentioned above the crash impact actual physics effect is a bit out. So for the suspect to give the innocent a decent shunt from the rear throwing them across the gravel and into the barrier, without much in-game effect on his driving ability add to that a miniscule penalty of around 5 seconds.
When you look at the suspects penalty it's worth doing as he's basically ended your race for 5 seconds if that. Which lets face it, you can scrub off 5 seconds easily during a race.
And as mentioned above the crash impact actual physics effect is a bit out. So for the suspect to give the innocent a decent shunt from the rear throwing them across the gravel and into the barrier, without much in-game effect on his driving ability add to that a miniscule penalty of around 5 seconds.
When you look at the suspects penalty it's worth doing as he's basically ended your race for 5 seconds if that. Which lets face it, you can scrub off 5 seconds easily during a race.
- 1,411
- United States
- equus_ferrum
I hope so, since the Manufacturers Cup race there is tomorrow, but I'm cautiously optimistic. Knowing PD, this is just as likely to lead to more people divebombing and forcing you into the wall in turns 1 and 3 and getting no penalty (or only you getting a penalty for hitting the wall as a result) as it is to promote good bump drafting. Blue Moon Bay has been glitchy in a lot of ways besides that lately though, like randomly ghosting everyone in the entire field so that now everyone can drive through each other (even though all the cars appear solid still).
- 786
- United States
I think the mistake many make is in trying too hard to emulate actual real life racing. Yes, contact isn't always penalized there. But sometimes it is. And there is no 'automatic' algorithm being used to decide whether to or not. The most sophisticated computer on the planet, the human brain, is what calculates if and when a penalty is correct, and you can't even get the same result from different brains... there's usually a team of stewards to come up with a consensus.
Expecting to race under the same constraints, but without even ONE human brain stewarding, let alone a team of them is completely unrealistic. So, what do you do?
Past experience has shown that the ONLY way to get clean online racing without an eternal bitchfest about whether the game is able to steward correctly or not is to race under different rules than what govern real life. Remove the advantage from contacting the lead car, you force drivers to figure out how to pass without contact. As do most real life drivers, given that contact during a pass can often spell the end of the race with a cut tire, damaged suspension, or even a steward call if flagrant enough. This game doesn't emulate the damage or spins well enough to copy real life. So why on earth are we racing under real life rules?
If you want to race under the same conditions as real life, join a league or room with a real host, real review, and real stewarding. Bump and bang and dive and push all you like. But be prepared to be protested, your points taken away, and sometimes kicked from the room or league. That's pretty much how it works in real life if flagrant enough.
But if you want quick pickup clean racing, something about the unfair advantage to contacting the lead car HAS to be changed. And the easiest solution is to force any car that passes after serious contact (the game can already distinguish between hardly noticeable rubs and harder contact) to return position. This is already implemented in PC2 (maybe others too).
It can work, if set up right...
Expecting to race under the same constraints, but without even ONE human brain stewarding, let alone a team of them is completely unrealistic. So, what do you do?
Past experience has shown that the ONLY way to get clean online racing without an eternal bitchfest about whether the game is able to steward correctly or not is to race under different rules than what govern real life. Remove the advantage from contacting the lead car, you force drivers to figure out how to pass without contact. As do most real life drivers, given that contact during a pass can often spell the end of the race with a cut tire, damaged suspension, or even a steward call if flagrant enough. This game doesn't emulate the damage or spins well enough to copy real life. So why on earth are we racing under real life rules?
If you want to race under the same conditions as real life, join a league or room with a real host, real review, and real stewarding. Bump and bang and dive and push all you like. But be prepared to be protested, your points taken away, and sometimes kicked from the room or league. That's pretty much how it works in real life if flagrant enough.
But if you want quick pickup clean racing, something about the unfair advantage to contacting the lead car HAS to be changed. And the easiest solution is to force any car that passes after serious contact (the game can already distinguish between hardly noticeable rubs and harder contact) to return position. This is already implemented in PC2 (maybe others too).
It can work, if set up right...
- 3,954
- Laguna
- Alpha_Cipher1
2011 CoD style 1v1 me bro challenge eh?
To be fair though, these types of moves and the types of players who do this are the ones that PD is trying very hard to eliminate
maybe they're *this* close to actually discouraging one of themWhat I meant was not that Honda or Toyota had no racing history, it's the particular cars they used in those particular racing series. A CRZ and an 86
- 626
- Northern Ireland
- GTRP_mirial
The tech is there to monitor every driver's consistency in practice, so any penalty system attributed to this should help to immediately establish who is at fault in most incidents, particularly as qualifying for dailies are based on your best effort regardless of how many attempts.
At least qualifying for FIAs is more realistic because you have to deliver a very good lap live, and be at least capable of doing a good banker lap too with only 1-2 attempts when conditions are optimum.
- 210
- Earth
- BadFlounder
- BadFlounder
Oh, good. This will definitely stop people from whining about the penalty system. Oh....wait....
I've said it before. I'll say it again. A huge part of the problem is people have unrealistic expectations for this penalty system. It is never going to be able to judge context or intent. In "real racing" they use human beings for that, and even then plenty of people are upset and disagree with the rulings. If people judge this penalty system with realistic expectations they will see it is actually quite effective. That said, I welcome any improvements. Anything can be improved upon, and I am glad Polyphony continue to work on it. I sincerely hope these new changes make people more happy with the system. But get ready for the "I was bumped off and there was no punishment...." or "this guy only got to the front by bumping others...". It's coming.
I agree, but I believe they aren't improving this aspect simply because it is a very difficult task and would require much more expensive back-end hardware. Also, you would need to find some way to get biometric input from each driver. Obviously not a very realistic scenario given our current hardware/software set up. I wouldn't say the current system can't be improved at all, but expecting this system to be able to reliably judge "fault" is asking an awful lot IMO.
I've said it before. I'll say it again. A huge part of the problem is people have unrealistic expectations for this penalty system. It is never going to be able to judge context or intent. In "real racing" they use human beings for that, and even then plenty of people are upset and disagree with the rulings. If people judge this penalty system with realistic expectations they will see it is actually quite effective. That said, I welcome any improvements. Anything can be improved upon, and I am glad Polyphony continue to work on it. I sincerely hope these new changes make people more happy with the system. But get ready for the "I was bumped off and there was no punishment...." or "this guy only got to the front by bumping others...". It's coming.
I agree, but I believe they aren't improving this aspect simply because it is a very difficult task and would require much more expensive back-end hardware. Also, you would need to find some way to get biometric input from each driver. Obviously not a very realistic scenario given our current hardware/software set up. I wouldn't say the current system can't be improved at all, but expecting this system to be able to reliably judge "fault" is asking an awful lot IMO.
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- 4,818
- Kentucky
- barrett5
- BarrettMopar
Words cannot describe how happy I am for this given how many words that are not allowed to be used to describe here that I've shouted in anger over the penalty system!
Quakebass
Premium
- 1,868
- Washington
- quakebass
I wonder if the strength of the SR penalties will be adjusted as well? Since the Beta there'd been a problem with most players collecting in Sr-S, many of them clearly not deserving such a rating. Here's hoping the algorithm adjustment will help with this.
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- 786
- United States
In the meantime, kudos to PD for distracting the player base with endless tweaks to a fundamentally flawed penalty system, so you all shut up about the dearth of real world tracks and GT5/6 great fantasy tracks as they dole them out glacially...
They got us to pay full price for a game that is one third of GT6's content. These guys are geniuses. Or we are all fools.
They got us to pay full price for a game that is one third of GT6's content. These guys are geniuses. Or we are all fools.
- 655
- United States
- FluffaRaptor
well we may be fools, but you are a broken record
- 74
- Norway
Its weird how the player base have been complaining about the penalty system for so long, and when they finally doing some big changes they are still complaining 
- 162
- GTP_David (race)/KopparbergDave (casual)
- KopparbergDave
While this sounds great the main problem with the penalty system seems to be that the game does very little, if anything, to decide who's actually at fault when two people come together. As a result I race like a paranoid wreck cos I just know when I drive clean someone else will mess up and I'll suffer. For example I've had someone totally mess up and go wide at the last turn on the F1 Nurburgring track. They went off track and then swung right back in in a totally unsafe way while I kept myself nice and snug with the inside rail guard. I could go nowhere, he comes in and glances off me and goes off track again. I think I got a 10 sec penalty for that. Everything that happened there was the other drivers fault and they should have been penalised.
The game needs a far FAR more intelligent system to make the racing even start to work. Surely they know exactly what the braking zones are for each car at any stage of the race based on tire wear, fuel etc. They know if someone brakes 5 metres later than they could ever hope to stop in time and takes out someone in front. They surely have these metrics to check against and punish appropriately.
The game needs a far FAR more intelligent system to make the racing even start to work. Surely they know exactly what the braking zones are for each car at any stage of the race based on tire wear, fuel etc. They know if someone brakes 5 metres later than they could ever hope to stop in time and takes out someone in front. They surely have these metrics to check against and punish appropriately.
- 655
- United States
- FluffaRaptor
Thats because there are two main groups (over-simplified but humor me):Its weird how the player base have been complaining about the penalty system for so long, and when they finally doing some big changes they are still complaining
-those that like to swap decals with the guy turning in to a corner 100m ahead
-those that think you should be taken out back and promptly shot for thinking about an overtake
there always one group who isn't happy
- 2,647
The penalty system sucked because light contact results in big penalties and huge, deliberate punts often result in no penalty at all!
KingFrog
(Banned)
- 837
- NOYB
Its called lag , the game calculates the impact a bit too late and overcompensates for it in kinetic energy .What is worrying me is the GTS ping-pong collision physicsnowadays when someone hits me just a tiny bit I get thrown away much more than I should. So yeah, the change is good but we also need new collision physics. By the way Kaz has mentioned he wants the collisions to be improved.
- 94
- United States
What are you talking about? You hit a car, the race is over? That's an absurdly stupid idea. Racing doesn't work like that. If you have heavy contact against a car, you get a penalty, light contact is acceptable since nothing really changes, except the space between your car and the other.
- 24
- United States
Sounds like a good change. I hope you still lose sr points for the minor contact though, to promote clean racing but without too many penalties. If someone abuses the lack of penalties they will soon find themselves in sr a/b or lower
- 253
- Sydney
- zdenko
Looking forward to this.
I hope it is closer to the way it was before when all driver ratings were treated equally. I had no problem with that system.
I have avoided the daily races since the last change to the penalty system awarding lower ranking players for bumping higher ranking ones.
I'm Sick of having penalties for very light touches. That goes for whether I am doing the overtaking or I am being overtaken. 1 and 2s penalties for almost nothing is just stupid. Sometimes you even get 5s ones.
The biggest difference I find from the game to real racing is that it is very hard to judge distance on a flat screen. Especially to the left and right where in real life your peripheral vision does a lot for you. Most of my contact in game is consequently on the sides.
M
What I would really like to see is the ability to serve the penalties in a pit stop to help reduce cars slowing on the track all the time. It would only work for the 1st half of a race but it would still be an improvement. Most penalties occur in the 1st couple laps while the field is more bunched anyway.
I can only recall being punted off the road 2 or 3 times on purpose. Plenty of what I would call accidental ones have happened though.
I had a bad one last week at Interlagos where the other guy purposely punted me into pit lane. He then went onto abuse me for the next 2 hours afterwards until I convinced him he was wrong. For a Japanese guy he could write swear words in English pretty darn good. This is the 1st time I have had anyone have a proper go at me playing an online game ever since I started in probably around year 2000 on PC's. Normally you get a 1 line comment in the lobby which is what I provided, but he left before seeing it. He even posted a picture of the incident to me on the 3rd hit where I was desperately trying to stop my car going into pit lane ignoring the first 2 hits. His main excuse was he was on the racing line, yet I was next to him for at least 200m all the way on the inside of the track while he was on the outside. Mind you this was after he ran up the inside of me twice before during the lap, bumping me then overshooting those 2 corners.
It p'd me off as it stuffed me up for the rest of the race as I had to do a long 2nd stint while conserving fuel and tyres. I dropped from 10th to 16th while doing so on track. I got a 5s penalty on top as well. He bounced off the pit entry wall and took out the player behind. Then he just weaved around the rest of the race as he basically gave up.
I don't see how the penalty system will fix this sort of stuff.
I hope it is closer to the way it was before when all driver ratings were treated equally. I had no problem with that system.
I have avoided the daily races since the last change to the penalty system awarding lower ranking players for bumping higher ranking ones.
I'm Sick of having penalties for very light touches. That goes for whether I am doing the overtaking or I am being overtaken. 1 and 2s penalties for almost nothing is just stupid. Sometimes you even get 5s ones.
The biggest difference I find from the game to real racing is that it is very hard to judge distance on a flat screen. Especially to the left and right where in real life your peripheral vision does a lot for you. Most of my contact in game is consequently on the sides.
M
What I would really like to see is the ability to serve the penalties in a pit stop to help reduce cars slowing on the track all the time. It would only work for the 1st half of a race but it would still be an improvement. Most penalties occur in the 1st couple laps while the field is more bunched anyway.
I can only recall being punted off the road 2 or 3 times on purpose. Plenty of what I would call accidental ones have happened though.
I had a bad one last week at Interlagos where the other guy purposely punted me into pit lane. He then went onto abuse me for the next 2 hours afterwards until I convinced him he was wrong. For a Japanese guy he could write swear words in English pretty darn good. This is the 1st time I have had anyone have a proper go at me playing an online game ever since I started in probably around year 2000 on PC's. Normally you get a 1 line comment in the lobby which is what I provided, but he left before seeing it. He even posted a picture of the incident to me on the 3rd hit where I was desperately trying to stop my car going into pit lane ignoring the first 2 hits. His main excuse was he was on the racing line, yet I was next to him for at least 200m all the way on the inside of the track while he was on the outside. Mind you this was after he ran up the inside of me twice before during the lap, bumping me then overshooting those 2 corners.
It p'd me off as it stuffed me up for the rest of the race as I had to do a long 2nd stint while conserving fuel and tyres. I dropped from 10th to 16th while doing so on track. I got a 5s penalty on top as well. He bounced off the pit entry wall and took out the player behind. Then he just weaved around the rest of the race as he basically gave up.
I don't see how the penalty system will fix this sort of stuff.
Veinz
Premium
- 4,836
- Ontario
These changes are long overdue. I don't play this game a whole lot anymore, mostly because of the penalty system in sport mode.
I especially like this.
The new rules will no longer penalize players with high Driver Ratings more harshly, with A and A+ drivers reverting to the same criteria as drivers with lower DR.
I especially like this.
The new rules will no longer penalize players with high Driver Ratings more harshly, with A and A+ drivers reverting to the same criteria as drivers with lower DR.
How about having a point system for clean racing, like if you drive clean in a pack for several minutes u get point that everybody can see at the end off the race, and clean overtakes, would maybe me more fun to drive clean.
how about setting up people together that have the same amount of contact with other drivers?
Example, if i had 100 hundred races, and in 50 off them I was in contact, 1/2, 0.50.
but also define which of those 50 contacts was my own fault, like dive bomb into the back of the car in front of me and contact with other driver so he went off track.
I dont know, it just seems like today dirty drivers benefit from the system, should be the other way. Freeze car for 20 secons if the do a dirty trick, I know people do mistakes and the penalty system is to harsh.
Lets hope for the best.
how about setting up people together that have the same amount of contact with other drivers?
Example, if i had 100 hundred races, and in 50 off them I was in contact, 1/2, 0.50.
but also define which of those 50 contacts was my own fault, like dive bomb into the back of the car in front of me and contact with other driver so he went off track.
I dont know, it just seems like today dirty drivers benefit from the system, should be the other way. Freeze car for 20 secons if the do a dirty trick, I know people do mistakes and the penalty system is to harsh.
Lets hope for the best.
- 1,400
- Netherlands
My points are these:
1. You can never please everybody, but these changes go in the best direction we’ve had up to now. I am really surprised by this announcement. It seems fair.
2. Those who are afraid of brake checking: a brake check is not a “light contact” moment. So we can all assume that brake checking will still be punished. Light contact means just driving together on almost the same racing line and there is light contact not changing the cars course. That means light contact. So no influences on the cars direction. Anything else is not “light contact” me thinks.
3. Since bad drivers always will do bad things, we need to focus on what makes us good drivers having more fun. These changes seem to be doing that way better than it was the last months. No matter what penalty system you create, there will always be bad drivers abusing the system. So focus on the good drivers is a good thing.
4. So as stated by others above: just dont expect a perfect penalty system. It is just a computer who needs to learn what is going on the track and this is just very difficult to accomplish.
5. I hope they stop with the ghosting system as well. Only maybe for cars that have been lapped and try intentionally to ruin someones race. So endurance races should be excluded from this option.
6. Lets just judge the system after we have tried it. And then make our remarks and getting an even more perfect system next update.
Thank you PD for making these efforts to create a better race environment !
1. You can never please everybody, but these changes go in the best direction we’ve had up to now. I am really surprised by this announcement. It seems fair.
2. Those who are afraid of brake checking: a brake check is not a “light contact” moment. So we can all assume that brake checking will still be punished. Light contact means just driving together on almost the same racing line and there is light contact not changing the cars course. That means light contact. So no influences on the cars direction. Anything else is not “light contact” me thinks.
3. Since bad drivers always will do bad things, we need to focus on what makes us good drivers having more fun. These changes seem to be doing that way better than it was the last months. No matter what penalty system you create, there will always be bad drivers abusing the system. So focus on the good drivers is a good thing.
4. So as stated by others above: just dont expect a perfect penalty system. It is just a computer who needs to learn what is going on the track and this is just very difficult to accomplish.
5. I hope they stop with the ghosting system as well. Only maybe for cars that have been lapped and try intentionally to ruin someones race. So endurance races should be excluded from this option.
6. Lets just judge the system after we have tried it. And then make our remarks and getting an even more perfect system next update.
Thank you PD for making these efforts to create a better race environment !
- 337
- Italy
- Il_Conte_Sky
Cap'n Jack
Premium
- 10,062
- South of the South
- GoldMineGutted
Sorry mate, I’m just a bit of a smart arse. The photo shows a Subaru BRZ, ahead of a 911 GT3R. I know it’s not a 911 RSR, but with the right BoP you can see a Subaru out accelerate a 911 (or a Volkswagen, if a GT3/GT300 homologates model existed). That’s the whole point of GT3.What should this photo tell me??? But I'm aware you mean it serious and not as a joke and thats the sad part of the story
I mean, I get where you’re coming from, once again, I’m just a smart arse. I don’t particularly like the Gr. 4 Bugatti (mainly because it still features the standard road-going counterpart’s rear wing), or the Gr. 3 Volkswagens. But like I said, a clever BoP, which exists in real life GT racing, can make a wide variety of cars competitive - Super GT’s GT300 class is a great example with regular GT3 cars seen over the world racing head-to-head with Subaru BRZ’s, Toyota 86’s and Prius’.
It is good to see PD is finally doing something about the penalty system, but PD needs to do more about the heavy contact between the 2 cars, like players being deliberately rammed by players being dirty.
PD needs to bring in Ghosting, and this is the only way to stop a dirty player from ruining your race in this game.
PD needs to bring in Ghosting, and this is the only way to stop a dirty player from ruining your race in this game.
- 94
- United States
Between 2 cars out on the track, there needs to be Ghosting.
Quakebass
Premium
- 1,868
- Washington
- quakebass
What circuit is that on the thumbnail?!?
Scape.
