Sebastian Vettel vs Lewis Hamilton

[Ferrari_1996]

If both had the same car, who do you think would win?

 

[Matti_Dude]

Lewis Hamilton.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Depends on the car... if it rides like a brick on a washboard then Hamilton.

If it's got a squishy front end and the rear wing in the clouds then Vettel.

 

[Ferrari_1996]

I would like reasons. Don't just say who do you think will win, say why.

BTW i haven't voted for Hamilton or Vettel because i want to know what the GTP members think.I don't want to sway the results.

 

[daan]

Are you aware of how forums work? We're not a chat room, and we have an edit button if you wish to add something to a post. Lets cut out the quadruple, and also completely redundant, posts.

 

[Matti_Dude]

I'm just a fan of his so of course I'm biased. He managed to outperform Fernando Alonso in his first season of formula one (alonso was double champion at this point too) and he could have taken the title if he didn't bottle it in the final two races. Deservedly he won his title the following year after completely dominating Kovalinen, a driver who at the time was also a fairly well rated rookie. It was also in a car that wasn't as fast as the Ferrari. Since then he's gotten the maximum out of whatever car he's been given, he even managed to get the disastrous McLaren Mp4-24 to the top of the podium. Sure he made a couple of errors last year, the biggest of which was his crash at Monza which was totally avoidable. But he was leading the championship for quite a while in a car that was arguably the 3rd fastest car on the grid. He's also proved time and time again that he has great race craft and can not only win a race from the front.

I think Vettel, as talented as he has proven to be (winning at Monza in the wet springs to mind) he hasn't had a team mate of the same caliber as Alonso, or even Button for that. Webber barely managed to beat Nick Heidfeld in the Williams during 2006 I believe. Sure it looks like Vettel has upped his game this year but he's found himself in a car which is clearly a class ahead. Newey has designed several cars which have brought WDC to drivers who were arguably undeserving (of course i'm not suggesting Vettel is one of those). If Red bull sign a top class driver once Webber's contract runs out, somebody like Rosberg or Kubica if he makes a good recovery then we'd say how good he truly is. But until then I'd choose Hamilton hands down. It would be very interesting to see the two in the same car though.

 

[Tesla]

I like how more people just want to vote rather than choose Vettel

 

[Ferrari_1996]

I like how more people just want to vote rather than choose Vettel

So you think Vettel would win? Why? I chose "I just want to vote!" BTW

 

[Stevisiov]

It's kind of a redundant question, as it impossible to tell. They both appear to have their strength and weaknesses.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

It's a toss up; what about in the wet?

 

[Pezzarinho17]

I voted Hamilton, swayed by my support for McLaren though I feel... It does depend on the car. No one is better at overtaking then Hamilton, whereas Vettel only appears to win races when starting at the front. He does seem to be the most complete driver at the moment though and has matured greatly over the last 2 seasons.

 

[niky]

Both Vettel and Hamilton have had some spectacular drives in the wet.

Two years ago, I'd have rated them as about equal.

At the end of last year, I was impressed by the level of maturity that Hamilton has shown... and his ability, like Alonso, to bring an absolute turd to a points-paying finish.

It's hard to say this year. Vettel also seems to have matured somewhat.

In terms of raw pace... undoubtedly they're both incredibly talented drivers... both are capable of extracting that last tenth past ten-tenths.

But in terms of racecraft... I'd say that Hamilton is still better. Both are ruthless overtakers, but Hamilton is just a bit more canny in his overtaking (I also think he's better at this than Alonso), and plays more mind games than Vettel does when he's trying to get around another car. Of course, his... errh... colorful interpretation of the rules of the road sometimes gets him in trouble, but he's definitely a shark amongst the minnows when cutting through the field. Though he wasn't a very precise shark in his first season... very rough around the edges that first year in F1.

Then again... this is all highly subjective... and perchance, given different cars, we might see them differently. Vettel's last few seasons have been in a car that has terrific aero but lacks in mechanical grip and power (remember how twitchy they seemed coming out of slipstream, last year?), while Hamilton has been in a car that's kinder to tires. Reverse their roles and it's hard to say if we would see them the same way...

 

[Ardius]

Both would win.

 

[IceMan PJN]

Honestly, I voted for Hamilton because he's my driver. The fact of the matter is that this is a difficult choice for me. I do believe Hamilton is a very skilled driver, but I'm afraid Vettel might be better. I'm sure some of Vettel's present untouchability comes from Red Bull's fantastic car, but he also seems to be a very skilled driver. I really wish I could see these two in the same car to see who comes out on top.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I've been considering this since I posted, and would like another go

I stand by my assertion that partly it depends on the car itself - we know Hamilton and Vettel like completely different setups... but now I've been thinking of them in terms of online racers that I've met over the years.

This might be controversial, but Hamilton = Racer, Vettel = Hotlapper.

There, I've said it.

 

[Dan_]

Vettel is hugely impressive, but I still prefer Hamilton.

 

[Peter.]

Neither, because Bruno Senna and Tonio Liuzzi would beat them both.


But seriously though, if I were betting all my money, it'd be on Hamilton. The car and team seems to be what's pushing Vettel rather than sheer talent. Don't get me wrong, he is extremely talented, but that Red Bull would make anyone good.

 

[Terronium-12]

Neither, because Bruno Senna and Tonio Liuzzi would beat them both.


But seriously though, if I were betting all my money, it'd be on Hamilton. The car and team seems to be what's pushing Vettel rather than sheer talent. Don't get me wrong, he is extremely talented, but that Red Bull would make anyone good.

Are you serious?

No doubt the RB7 is still ahead of the pack in most facets but how do you explain Vettel being a couple tenths to a few hundredths of a second faster than Webber? This coming from someone who's been critical of Vettel all of last season and most of this one. He's a contemporary Schumacher for the most part, simple as.

As for my pick I'd say it'd be a back and forth thing.

 

[Peter.]

Are you serious?

No doubt the RB7 is still ahead of the pack in most facets but how do you explain Vettel being a couple tenths to a few hundredths of a second faster than Webber? This coming from someone who's been critical of Vettel all of last season and most of this one. He's a contemporary Schumacher for the most part, simple as.

As for my pick I'd say it'd be a back and forth thing.

I've said it before, and i'll say it again.


Red Bull has all their efforts pushing Vettel forward. Webber is, unfortunately a third wheel they need to secure the championship, and little more. They've made it obvious already, sure not as obvious as Ferrari has been known to, but it's Vettel's team, there's no equal piece of the pie at Red Bull. Vettel has a considerable advantage. Just put yourself in Mark's shoes, or any second driver's shoes. The team is pushing the other guy forward and not really putting in much effort into you, that's going to hurt self confidence, which can affect drivers a lot. Plus the car will be developed to fit the #1 guy's style more than yours, so it would be more difficult for you to get used to or go fast in. And Webber and Vettel have 2 quite different driving styles.

Being a second driver is a lot more than a yellow T-bar on top of your car.

 

[Terronium-12]

I've said it before, and i'll say it again.


Red Bull has all their efforts pushing Vettel forward. Webber is, unfortunately a third wheel they need to secure the championship, and little more. They've made it obvious already, sure not as obvious as Ferrari has been known to, but it's Vettel's team, there's no equal piece of the pie at Red Bull. Vettel has a considerable advantage. Just put yourself in Mark's shoes, or any second driver's shoes. The team is pushing the other guy forward and not really putting in much effort into you, that's going to hurt self confidence, which can affect drivers a lot. Plus the car will be developed to fit the #1 guy's style more than yours, so it would be more difficult for you to get used to or go fast in. And Webber and Vettel have 2 quite different driving styles.

Being a second driver is a lot more than a yellow T-bar on top of your car.

Are you trying to provoke the Webber fan in me?

Do you remember what happened last season at Silverstone (I think it was Silverstone, correct me if I'm wrong)? Vettel was favored over him outright and do you remember the outcome? It fueled him, it didn't dissuade his talent at all. Most of us here already know Red Bull has favored Vettel to some greater extent since day one and to be quite honest why wouldn't they? He was in their program and you could even argue he was 'bred' specifically for this team, Webber wasn't. He has tremendous pace, the only thing that's still of question is craft, but even that's improved almost twofold since last season. Webber may be "Mr. Second" but he can still take things right away from Vettel. Hell, he could have and most likely would have done it last year had it not been for his mistakes and injury (of which he refuses to attribute to his downhill performance at the end of the season).

 

[F1 fan]

I'm surprised this thread hasn't developed into a flame war. As for Vettel v Webber, a lot of people seem to forget how Vettel has asserted himself over Webber from day one. Look at Vettel v webber in terms of race finishes and qualifying positions at the start of 2009 and you'll see why Red Bull might favour Vettel. Webber has been beaten over two full seasons by him and is currently getting beaten again. I like Webber, but results speak for themselves.

I'm curious as to why this thread was created. Seems like flame bait. Especially when you consider that Alonso, Button and Webber weren't included.

 

[occasionalracer]

Don't underestimate Vettel constant smiling and joking, he's a fighter and will be fun to watch when hopefully Mclaren, Ferrari, and Mercedes close in on the fight for the 1st. We have yet to see Vettel fight enough, but let's hope the teams improve. I would love to see Schumacher and Vettel get into it at some point this season. Anybody see Schumachers start at Spain??...that was so awsome.👍

 

[TenEightyOne]

I'm surprised this thread hasn't developed into a flame war.

There's been some sensible posting, let's hope it stays that way!

Let's try to keep it Hamilton .vs. Vettel and leave Webber out of it

 

[niky]

Red Bull may favor Vettel, but they're not exactly hobbling Mark with lead weights around his ankles.

I sincerely think that despite the favoritism in each camp, the second drivers are given their chance to perform. But when you thoroughly muck up a start like Webber did in Spain, you are obviously going to be put on the alternate strategy... and he was.

Yet a driver who's eager to prove himself will make that alternate strategy work (Button). Webber... didn't.

 

[F1 fan]

There's been some sensible posting, let's hope it stays that way!

Let's try to keep it Hamilton .vs. Vettel and leave Webber out of it

Why? The whole thread seems like it was created by someone new to F1. I know it's a bit late, but it seems stupid not to include Alonso and Button.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Nah, it's like one of those "who would win in a fight" questions.

The thread's kept out of nomex territory because it's stayed fairly narrowly on topic... start including new drivers and you increase the chance of flames...

...I do see your point though

 

[Terronium-12]

Red Bull may favor Vettel, but they're not exactly hobbling Mark with lead weights around his ankles.

I sincerely think that despite the favoritism in each camp, the second drivers are given their chance to perform. But when you thoroughly muck up a start like Webber did in Spain, you are obviously going to be put on the alternate strategy... and he was.

Yet a driver who's eager to prove himself will make that alternate strategy work (Button). Webber... didn't.

Webber got to third -- oh, oh, never mind....we're talking about Spain. Yeah he mucked that up terribly.

As for the flame-bait (yes I know none of it is directed toward me) but I'm perfectly capable of praising and smiting anyone when necessary. I'm a Webber fan yet you don't see me making excuses for his performance do you?

 

[F1 fan]

Webber got to third -- oh, oh, never mind....we're talking about Spain. Yeah he mucked that up terribly.

As for the flame-bait (yes I know none of it is directed toward me) but I'm perfectly capable of praising and smiting anyone when necessary. I'm a Webber fan yet you don't see me making excuses for his performance do you?

No you don't. This thread has been surprisingly sensible, but I'm still surprised that this question was asked without Alonso. He is statistically the best driver of the frontrunners (assuming you don't consider Schumacher a frontrunner).

In any case, I'm a Vettel Fan, But I think when you have so many drivers capable of fighting for wins, it's a bit stupid to just ask who would win out of Webber and Vettel.

 

[niky]

No, no.. when you ask "Who will win in a fight... Mayweather or Pacquiao?" you don't bring up Sugar Ray Leonard...

 

[F1 fan]

No, no.. when you ask "Who will win in a fight... Mayweather or Pacquiao?" you don't bring up Sugar Ray Leonard...

What has that got to do with anything? It seems stupid to ask a question like this and not include ARGUABLY, THE BEST DRIVER ON THE GRID

While we're at it, why don't I start a thread... "Who would win in a straight fight?" Kobayashi or Kovalainen?"... Between you and I, I'm pretty sure that thread would get locked.