Should Formula 1 drivers have their own specific racing number?

[corporatesteve]

What are your thoughts on this?

Personally, I believe they should have their own racing number like Nascar drivers. I believe merchandise sales and marketing of the sport will be greater.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I believe Jean Todt suggested this a while ago. It came with the suggestion that drivers have large, easy-to-identify numbers on their cars so that fans could pick their favourite drivers out (since it can be a little hard to pick drivers out based on helmet designs and camera mountings). The idea was modelled on MotoGP, where riders are issued a number when they enter a sport, and that number stays with them for the rest of their career - so Valentino Rossi will always be #46, and Marco Simoncelli will always be #58. The only time the number would change would be when a driver is World Champion, in which case he adopts the #1 and his normal racing number is put in escrow (so it can't be issued to/taken by another driver).

Of course, the teams will offer resistance for two reasons: firstly, numbers are assigned based on championship position; the better they do, the lower the number they get, so it's something of a status symbol. And secondly, it would take up advertising space. McLaren and Mercedes are the only teams that really show their numbers on the rear wing, and Hispania is the only team that has clearly-visible numbers. Most of the others keep their numbers on the vertical upright alongside the sidepods, and some - most notably Force India and Team Fernandes - have put their numbers in some pretty questionable places (Force India put theirs in the gap between the front wing struts, making it virtually impossible to read the number short of standing on top of the car; Team Fernandes used to put theirs right at the end of the sidepods). They'd probably leave the numbers off if they could, but it's compulsory.

Of course, if personalised numbering went ahead, there's a few difficulties on hand: first of all, what happens if two drivers want the same number? 17 is a signifcant number for me, but what if another drivers wants the same number because it's significant to them? How do you go assigning numbers fairly? And secondly, what do you do when there is a particularly famous number that becomes available? Like the number 27 - a lot of famous drivers have raced with it. Or let's say that Ayrton Senna always raced with the number 99 - you drivers might want that number specifically because it was Senna's and a lot of young drivers were influenced by him. In the NHL, teams can choose to retire a number when a famous player leaves; the Edmonton Oilers did it when Wayne Gretzky retired. So I suppose you could retire a racing number for a decade (Formula 1 won't see a hundred drivers in ten years) as a mark of respect once a driver leaves.

 

[Jimlaad43]

I want to see a gaming geek racer with the car number '1337'

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I believe the numbers would be limited to double digits - either 0 or 2-99 (1 being reserved for the champion). It's bad enough when they run triple digits; Triple Eight run a car numbered 888 in the V8 Supercars, which led to a rash of three-numbered cars. 222, 333, 777 and 999 can all be found in the development series. Of course, that's not in Formula 1, but I think the FIA would be keen on avoiding it (though someone might be able to run 100).

 

[mattythedog]

I believe Jean Todt suggested this a while ago. It came with the suggestion that drivers have large, easy-to-identify numbers on their cars so that fans could pick their favourite drivers out (since it can be a little hard to pick drivers out based on helmet designs and camera mountings). The idea was modelled on MotoGP, where riders are issued a number when they enter a sport, and that number stays with them for the rest of their career - so Valentino Rossi will always be #46, and Marco Simoncelli will always be #58. The only time the number would change would be when a driver is World Champion, in which case he adopts the #1 and his normal racing number is put in escrow (so it can't be issued to/taken by another driver).

Of course, the teams will offer resistance for two reasons: firstly, numbers are assigned based on championship position; the better they do, the lower the number they get, so it's something of a status symbol. And secondly, it would take up advertising space. McLaren and Mercedes are the only teams that really show their numbers on the rear wing, and Hispania is the only team that has clearly-visible numbers. Most of the others keep their numbers on the vertical upright alongside the sidepods, and some - most notably Force India and Team Fernandes - have put their numbers in some pretty questionable places (Force India put theirs in the gap between the front wing struts, making it virtually impossible to read the number short of standing on top of the car; Team Fernandes used to put theirs right at the end of the sidepods). They'd probably leave the numbers off if they could, but it's compulsory.

Of course, if personalised numbering went ahead, there's a few difficulties on hand: first of all, what happens if two drivers want the same number? 17 is a signifcant number for me, but what if another drivers wants the same number because it's significant to them? How do you go assigning numbers fairly? And secondly, what do you do when there is a particularly famous number that becomes available? Like the number 27 - a lot of famous drivers have raced with it. Or let's say that Ayrton Senna always raced with the number 99 - you drivers might want that number specifically because it was Senna's and a lot of young drivers were influenced by him. In the NHL, teams can choose to retire a number when a famous player leaves; the Edmonton Oilers did it when Wayne Gretzky retired. So I suppose you could retire a racing number for a decade (Formula 1 won't see a hundred drivers in ten years) as a mark of respect once a driver leaves.

Ummmmm yeah, what ^ said. Seriously, it isn't that difficult to recognise drivers, if you know the team, then it is pretty simple to narrow it down by the helmet colours. I.e. McLaren with Hamilton and button. Their helmets are so different I don't think numbers are needed.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Seriously, it isn't that difficult to recognise drivers, if you know the team, then it is pretty simple to narrow it down by the helmet colours.

It might be easy on television - but not in the grandstands. You try identifying a driver from a distance based on his helmet colour and/or camera mounting when he blasts past at over 200km/h.

 

[mattythedog]

It might be easy on television - but not in the grandstands. You try identifying a driver from a distance based on his helmet colour and/or camera mounting when he blasts past at over 200km/h.

Yeah but if your in the grandstands and you can't see helmet colours then you won't be able to see numbers. What they could do is have each driver choose there own car colour scheme. That would be very easy to identify.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Yeah but if your in the grandstands and you can't see helmet colours then you won't be able to see numbers.

It was possible in 2007 and 2008 when Honda ran large numbers on their rear wings with sharp contrast.

But it's not just a question of visibility - the major reason for doing it is brand association. Valentino Rossi is synonymous with the #46. Dario Franchitti is synonymous with the #10. Dick (and later Steven) Johnson is synonymous with the #17. It's a system that works.

What they could do is have each driver choose there own car colour scheme. That would be very easy to identify.

BAR tried that in 1999 - they wanted to run one car with a Lucky Strike livery and the other with 555 (as both brands were owned by British American Tobacco). Bernie said no, which is what led to the infamous "zipper" design.

 

[Small_Fryz]

I like that idea,

Works very well in MotoGP.

Pretty much agree with everything Interludes says 👍

 

[mattythedog]

Basically the no.1 priority for the teams is the sponsors. And in NASCAR don't the drivers have different liveries. Does it work in NASCAR?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Not really, because sponsors and drivers and numbers can change on a race-to-race basis. For example, Scott Speed drove the #46 Green Stuff Sales & Supply Ford at Bristol, but later in the season, he'll be driving the #37 Chevrolet (sponsor TBA). And in the same way, drivers will take part in the Sprint Cup and the Nationwide Series; Brad Keselowski drives the #2 Miller Lite Dodge in the Sprint Cup, but he's also driven the #22 Ruby Tuesday Dodoge in the Nationwide Series.

V8 Supercars, however, does do something like what you're describing. Stone Brothers Racing fields three cars - Alex Davison in the #4 IRWIN Falcon, Shane van Gisbergen in the #9 Falcon, and Tim Slade in the #47 Lucky 7 Falcon; likewise, Paul Morris Motorsports runs Russell Ingall in the #39 Supercheap Auto Commodore and Steven Owen in the #49 VIP Petfoods Commodore. Indycar does it, too, but like NASCAR, sponsors can change from race to race (Helio Castroneves had a Shell V-Power livery in Baltimore as opposed to his usual Team Penske design).

However, Formula 1 takes pride in the way the teams are teams - they share everything from identical cars to identical sponsors.

 

[homeforsummer]

I would personally like to see personalised numbers in the sport, even though there are limitations as mentioned.

I know there have been unusual numbers chosen in the past - Damon Hill had #0 in 1994 because the previous year's champion Prost had retired, but Williams still had dibs on the two lowest numbers, meaning Senna had #2. Also that season, Nigel Mansell used a red #2 as he'd always used "red five" (which he maintained in his 93 IndyCar season) and a red #7 in McLaren in 95. As an aside, he used red #55 when he drove in the BTCC in 1998.

With regard to #27, I seem to remember Jean Alesi ran with that for several years, and Berger used #28 for the same seasons in Ferrari.

It's interesting, and I think it's a pity that F1 doesn't regulate a specified area for a race number like virtually every other motorsport in the world does.

 

[Ardius]

I like the current number system, though I didn't mind the pre-1996 system (all teams kept the same numbers every year except for the new champions and the previous champions who would swap numbers).

I don't think numbers should be tied to specific drivers because we get into the ridiculous stage of numbers being "retired" or people associating a driver with a number and not liking other drivers using it. I don't agree that its a better way of making drivers more identifiable - either way it still has to be explained which driver is which number.
Its already ridiculous that number 13 isn't used. What happens when people refuse to use numbers or most of the numbers 0-99 are retired? Triple digit numbers? Surely if numbers are un-retired, people will complain especially if they are numbers retired in respect to someone's death - the numbers will suddenly carry both positive and negative feelings for people.

Another problem as ludes said is that takes sponsor space - especially if we are talking about making the numbers big enough for spectators to see.

I'd rather see the FIA enforce a rule where drivers have to keep the same helmet design their entire career, with exceptions for when 2 drivers join the same team with a very similar helmet design.
You can see the helmet designs from the grandstands, I was easily able to tell who was driving which car by this at Silverstone.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'd rather see the FIA enforce a rule where drivers have to keep the same helmet design their entire career, with exceptions for when 2 drivers join the same team with a very similar helmet design.

To be fair, most drivers keep the same design for their career. Sometimes, they'll run a special design; usually for their home event. Because there's so many German drivers on the grid, they all like to get kids to design their helmets for the German Grand Prix and then auction them off after the race (though it didn't happen this year). I'd like to see that continue. Likewise, I can understand drivers running special designs to commemorate milestones, like Michael Schumacher's 20th year, Barrichello's 300th start, or when David Coulthard ran a special design in memory of Colin McRae.

It's when a driver - Vettel - changes his helmet every race that it becomes annoying.

 

[homeforsummer]

I don't think numbers should be tied to specific drivers because we get into the ridiculous stage of numbers being "retired" or people associating a driver with a number and not liking other drivers using it. I don't agree that its a better way of making drivers more identifiable - either way it still has to be explained which driver is which number.
Its already ridiculous that number 13 isn't used. What happens when people refuse to use numbers or most of the numbers 0-99 are retired? Triple digit numbers? Surely if numbers are un-retired, people will complain especially if they are numbers retired in respect to someone's death - the numbers will suddenly carry both positive and negative feelings for people.

Not a biggie IMO. Works perfectly well in NASCAR.

Another problem as ludes said is that takes sponsor space - especially if we are talking about making the numbers big enough for spectators to see.

Again, shouldn't be a big problem. If anything, it's being made more of a problem by the FIA not designating space for numbers as governing bodies do in every other motorsport across every discipline.

All it needs is a square on the rear wing endplates and a square on the nose. The sponsors already dictate the colour of virtually every car save for Ferrari who seem to pick sponsors that suit their colour scheme, and major sponsors have several square footage of space on each car anyway. They're not going to pull out of the sport if the FIA dictate a designated space for numbers. Not worth the money they'd lose in ad revenue, certainly.

It's when a driver - Vettel - changes his helmet every race that it becomes annoying.

Agreed.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The FIA states that the number must be shown. That's all. And like I said, some teams - like Force India, and Team Fernandes last year - put those numbers in awkward places. But it's an easy enough fix.

 

[homeforsummer]

The FIA states that the number must be shown. That's all. And like I said, some teams - like Force India, and Team Fernandes last year - put those numbers in awkward places. But it's an easy enough fix.

What I mean is that if the FIA changed the regs to say that race numbers must be displayed in a specified area of the car and of a specified size, the teams and sponsors wouldn't really have a choice, and it would make the numbers much more prominent.

Most other single seater series with wings specify a section of the rear wing end plates on each side and a section of the nose cone. Touring cars, a block on each door. Le Mans, an illuminated one on each side of the body and one on the nose. Motorcycles, one on the nose and one each side of the seat unit.

Wouldn't be hard to implement in F1 and wouldn't lose that much sponsor space really either.

 

[Ardius]

Most other series don't have a premium on sponsor space though. A Formula Renault is far cheaper to run so only requires a couple or so sponsors - therefore leaving plenty of room on the car still.
The amount of TV coverage F1 cars get means even the tiniest spots like the wing mirrors are quite expensive to place sponsor logos on. The rear wing endplates and front nose cone section are some of the most expensive places..so the teams would be losing a lot of money preventing sponsor logos in these places.

The issue isn't so bad for say LMS because:
1. It doesn't get as much TV coverage, so the cost of losing that space isn't as great.
2. There is plenty of space on Prototypes and GT cars.
3. The costs of running sportscars or most other series is so so much cheaper.

The best place to put the race numbers also happens to be the best place to put sponsor logos..and so hence is very expensive.

To be fair, most drivers keep the same design for their career. Sometimes, they'll run a special design; usually for their home event. Because there's so many German drivers on the grid, they all like to get kids to design their helmets for the German Grand Prix and then auction them off after the race (though it didn't happen this year). I'd like to see that continue. Likewise, I can understand drivers running special designs to commemorate milestones, like Michael Schumacher's 20th year, Barrichello's 300th start, or when David Coulthard ran a special design in memory of Colin McRae.

It's when a driver - Vettel - changes his helmet every race that it becomes annoying.

Allow minor changes but not major ones. Schumacher's gold helmet was too confusing with Rosberg's yellow helmet. Also obviously sponsors get some space on the helmets.

But yes, Vettel's is very irritating. Though most of the Red Bull drivers are terrible helmets bar Webbers. Alguesuari and Buemi's helmets are almost identical when viewed from the side.
I also don't like drivers changing the colour scheme when they change teams as well. Kubica is bad for this and Heidfeld.



Basically my outlook on this is this - how does everyone remember Graham Hill? Ayrton Senna? Even Lewis Hamilton or Fernando Alonso? When you look at a car they are driving, you know its them not by the car number (where the car number is plainly visible) but by their helmet design. Drivers should be encouraged to use more consistent and distinctive helmet designs.

 

[corporatesteve]

Whenever I see a big colored number on the grill of a semi truck or on the back of vehicles or boats i immediately know it has to do with NASCAR ( in the USA that is ).

Problem is, I cant really see people showing off their boat, truck, etc etc with a huge helmet design that drivers seem to change 24/7 ( like we discussed before ). In result, as fans we end up supporting the constructors team ( huge Ferrari flag or flamboyant red bull sticker shaped as their drink ).

For once I wish there was an easier way to support our drivers with a symbol or number ( example Senna or MS logo ). But people outside of the series will not know what that Senna logo means.

I don't think it will ever change, Formula 1 has always been more about the sponsors and constructors.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The sponsors and constructors aren't really affected if the numbers are affected. Most teams only put minor sponsors or technical partners on the rear wing endplates, and changing the nubmers to be personalised doesn't affect the FOM payout structure or pit bay allocations (which are issued in championship order).

But I think it would only really work if the teams could play with the numbers a little bit, again like in MotoGP. For example, Casey Stoner's #27 is painted like the Australian flag. Valentino Rossi's #46 is a bold and bright yellow. Ben Spies' #11 is made up of lines that have been run together. So if Formula 1 drivers could have custom numbers, then I think the design of the number would also go a long way to establishing the association between driver and number.

 

[Prince.M5]

But I think it would only really work if the teams could play with the numbers a little bit, again like in MotoGP. For example, Casey Stoner's #27 is painted like the Australian flag. Valentino Rossi's #46 is a bold and bright yellow. Ben Spies' #11 is made up of lines that have been run together. So if Formula 1 drivers could have custom numbers, then I think the design of the number would also go a long way to establishing the association between driver and number.

But the problem is that the numbers on the car is too small and in the case of Ferrari, not visible at all. Since I've been to Sepang before, some cars like Renault have theirs on the verticle bargeboard and is too small to be visible. Therefore, having a designed numbers wouldn't give much of a difference for spectators on the track perhaps a little better for those who watch through TV.

The car blast rapidly in front of my eyes and how do I differentiate the drivers? Look at their helmets and look at the colour on top of the TV Pod (usually RED is for the first driver in a team while YELLOW is the second driver).

 

[prisonermonkeys]

But the problem is that the numbers on the car is too small and in the case of Ferrari, not visible at all.

That's why the whole rear wing endplate should be dedicated to the number, and the number only. Indycar does it, and it works just fine:

The infamous Honda earth cars also did it, with high-contrast numbers (light number on dark background, or a dark number on a light background):

And while looking at helmets and camera mountings is all well and good, they're also very small areas, and they're not necessarily easy to spot at speed. We've even heard Martin Brundle and David Coulthard mis-call a car on occasion. If they can do it, newcomers who aren't necesarily aware of the differences can, too.

I'm not advocating custom numbers in the place of coloured camera mountings and driver helmets. But the more information you can give the spectators about who it is, the better. And I think having a custom number adds a little extra personality. When I was a kid, my favourite driver in the Australian Touring Car Championship was an obscure privateer named Terry Finnigan, who drove a purple car with the number 29. I was born on November 29, so the connection was significant to four-year-old me. He ws also sponsored by supermarket chain Foodtown, and there was a Foodtown in my home town, but that's beside the point. Hell, I was watching the MotoGP at Aragon last night and Andrea Iannone in Moto2 carried the number 29; when he was in the thick of some of the best racing I've ever seen (and not really knowing any of the riders), I instantly started backing him. Likewise, I have a soft spot for any driver carrying the number 17; yellow was my favourite colour as a kid, and Dick Johnson used to race a yellow car with the number 17, so he became a favourite (quickly out-ranking Finnigan).

The association between a driver and a number can be a powerful thing. They can become synonymous with one another. And I think that's a powerful, albeit minor, thing that Formula 1 could explore. It's just one more connection between drivers and fans, and that's never a bad thing. At the end of that intense Moto2 race last night, Marc Marquez carried a personal flag around in victory. But it wasn't dominated by his name - it was dominated by his number, 93. How on earth would something like that hurt Formula 1? It doesn't affect FOM payouts or pit lane allocations. And while it might intrude on sponsor space, those sponsors would always be moved to other parts of the car. After all, how much empty space do we generally see on Formula 1 cars? Plenty.

 

[Ardius]

^A number can still be difficult to read even "at speed" - I don't see how numbers solve that problem. A flash of colour is easier than trying to distinguish numbers.

Indycars do not generally generate a lot of sponsorship for themselves and it should be pointed out that Honda's earth cars were entirely bank-rolled by Honda themselves - no sponsors! So there is still this problem of taking up expensive sponsor space.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'm aware the RA107 and 108 were fully-funded by Honda. But they prodived a clear illustration of what I'm aiming at: large, high-contrast numbers. They might not be as good as the coloured camera mountings - though that remains to be seen - but they certainly are easier for spectators to spot from a distance.

The Ferrari F150:

The Williams FW33:

The Sauber C30:

The Virgin MVR-02:

What do these cars all have in common? They have acres of empty space where the sponsors that are usually found on the rear wing endplates could comfortably fit.

Perhaps the only team that it is really a problem for it Renault:

 

[Ardius]

Some of those images are from before the season started, since then they have had sponsors appear in a lot of those spots.

As I said, taking away these spots is taking away potential sponsorship money. This is why the teams are unlikely to agree to forced race numbers in large areas of the car.

 

[Hun200kmh]

About numbers: I don't agree with specific numbers for specific drivers, although I've got nothing against the free association (made by fans) of a number to a driver. When it happens, it usually means something extraordinary is to be remembered. And I only have to say 27 to know that all Formula 1 fans, regardless of their age (1982 happened almost 30 years ago, I need to keep telling this to myself ) understand what I'm talking about.

I must say, however, that I much preferred to older system (1-2 for the team with the world champion, previous numbers of that team are inherited by the previous 1-2 team). I like the historical fact that the 27 was Alan Jones' number before he became champion. As I do like the fact that 11-12 (Scheckter-Villeneuve's numbers) passed on to Lotus where they were famously used by Senna, among others.

Enough with the rambling, I liked teams to have specific numbers (others: Ligiers 22 and 23. Renault, 15 and 16, Brabhams 5 and 6) and I hate this new system of every year numbers being changed.

About helmets: I don't think drivers should be forced to keep their helmet design. Helmets, however, are iconic and are an important part of our memories of a particular driver. But, if kids like Vettel don't want that for whatever reason ... so be it. We will remember him by the finger.

 

[homeforsummer]

That's why the whole rear wing endplate should be dedicated to the number, and the number only. Indycar does it, and it works just fine:

This is exactly what I'm referring to.

I don't get the "it's difficult to read at speed" thing either. It would be if a car literally flashed past the place you were standing or sitting, but spectator areas at every circuit are far enough back to get a wide field of view, enough to watch the car both arrive and disappear off from a fair distance away. If you can spot the rear wing itself, then you can read the number.

I also disagree with the "no space for sponsors" argument. As I've said already, if the FIA decreed that the rear wing was for the number and the number only, the sponsors would have no choice in the matter. Get with it or get out, in other words. Ditto the teams. They have to agree to thousands of other regulations, so why not race numbers?

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I think a simple solution would be to colour co-ordinate the back of the mirrors with the T-Bar so driver 1 has red mirrors and T-Bar and driver 2 has yellow mirrors and T-Bar, teams won't lose sponsor space and cars are easily recognisable to spectators.

 

[JJ72]

I can understand that because F1 is more a constructor orientated sport, or at least it's 50/50 between the importance of drivers and team.

 

[Grayfox]

No because some drivers will want numbers like 1 or 00