Time to Separate DS4 & Wheel User Races.

[Satomiblood]

What about people who uses wheels and ds4 at the same time?

Goro plays racing games?

 

[Pedalen]

I am more for a split between those who uses aids and those who don't. Like auto-steering or what ever it is, WHY is that allowed in Sport-mode? tc/abs I can get (if it is standard in the car), but the other ones? Lame.

 

[Groundfish]

I feel like the t300 gives advantage to me in many ways. That said I’ve never even tried the game on controller.
Any splitting or dividing of player between anything other than on track behavior and speed is dumb.
I don’t care what peripheral is used. As long as I am racing humans I’m good.
Like me, I use in car but most use hood. I personally feel in car also gives me advantage in some ways.
For me, I don’t care if I am racing a child. If they drive well they drive well.
Once in a while I’ll run a lobby, I will only kick if someone’s intentionally screwing with people.
I don’t get why it matters what peripheral is used to drive the cars. The thing is competition and sharing the experience with others.

 

[Satomiblood]

I feel like the t300 gives advantage to me in many ways. That said I’ve never even tried the game on controller.
Any splitting or dividing of player between anything other than on track behavior and speed is dumb.
I don’t care what peripheral is used. As long as I am racing humans I’m good.
Like me, I use in car but most use hood. I personally feel in car also gives me advantage in some ways.
For me, I don’t care if I am racing a child. If they drive well they drive well.
Once in a while I’ll run a lobby, I will only kick if someone’s intentionally screwing with people.
I don’t get why it matters what peripheral is used to drive the cars. The thing is competition and sharing the experience with others.

In my year of posting on the GTS forum, there seems to be an attitude from certain players wanting to keep others down by limiting their available options. Basically, "get a wheel, turn off all driver aids, and use a specified cam."

 

[Browners55]

It looks like a nice setup, but do you just put your beer between your legs, or what? I don't see any cup holders.

I put it off to the side

 

[Cerebral303]

In my year of posting on the GTS forum, there seems to be an attitude from certain players wanting to keep others down by limiting their available options. Basically, "get a wheel, turn off all driver aids, and use a specified cam."

Yeah, it's odd since the current system based roughly on ability works best IMO - Unskilled drivers using a pad are lumped with unskilled drivers using a wheel. Skilled drivers who anticipate things and exhibit good racecraft on a pad are matched with drivers who do likewise with their wheels.

 

[Pedalen]

I feel like the t300 gives advantage to me in many ways. That said I’ve never even tried the game on controller.
Any splitting or dividing of player between anything other than on track behavior and speed is dumb.
I don’t care what peripheral is used. As long as I am racing humans I’m good.
Like me, I use in car but most use hood. I personally feel in car also gives me advantage in some ways.
For me, I don’t care if I am racing a child. If they drive well they drive well.
Once in a while I’ll run a lobby, I will only kick if someone’s intentionally screwing with people.
I don’t get why it matters what peripheral is used to drive the cars. The thing is competition and sharing the experience with others.

Then you have no problem with doping in the Olympics? Hey, they are humans, who cares what extra help they get. Right? If you can't drive without steering aid or whatever, you shouldn't be racing "up top". It's strange af that these things are even included in a "driving simulator". Or then again, maybe not, they just want to sell numbers.

 

[Spirit]

Then you have no problem with doping in the Olympics? Hey, they are humans, who cares what extra help they get. Right? If you can't drive without steering aid or whatever, you shouldn't be racing "up top". It's strange af that these things are even included in a "driving simulator". Or then again, maybe not, they just want to sell numbers.

I feel like your comparison would be more valid if these driving aids were outlawed in the game, yet are used in circumvention of the regulations.

 

[iFerrari]

Then you have no problem with doping in the Olympics? Hey, they are humans, who cares what extra help they get. Right? If you can't drive without steering aid or whatever, you shouldn't be racing "up top". It's strange af that these things are even included in a "driving simulator". Or then again, maybe not, they just want to sell numbers.

It would surprise you but most modern racing cars have multiple settings of ABS and TC available. Driving with or without them is totally down to driver preference.

 

[rex1825]

Just my honest opinion.

...I'd rather have them make player connect to closest server (lowest ping) in Sport Mode rather then region lock

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Then you have no problem with doping in the Olympics? Hey, they are humans, who cares what extra help they get. Right? If you can't drive without steering aid or whatever, you shouldn't be racing "up top". It's strange af that these things are even included in a "driving simulator". Or then again, maybe not, they just want to sell numbers.

Plenty people use doping to play GTS, yet no one asks to separate the DUI and high people from the rest
If you are getting beat by someone using a steering aid, perhaps you should work on get better at the game

There's plenty cheating going on at the top, driving aids aren't part of it. They don't make you faster, they only make you a safer driver on the track. Let them use TCS and not break out at corner exit hitting me. Let them use brake assist and not punt me off in the braking zone. Let them use radar to avoid my car. Let them use ABS no to punt me off in the braking zone. Let them use ASM if that helps not to lose control and take me out. Same for CSA.

The mobility in my fingers isn't that great anymore, ABS and TCS slow me down a bit, as well as AT yet I can still play GTS. I'm not beating any A+ drivers with them, so I'm not in the way of the fast people. I also have CSA on weak, not sure what it does, it only lights up when I get punted, thus good when someone crashes into me. They are accessibility options. Sure I can drive without them, yet likely will be hitting people and go play something else.

You can disable them in lobbies if you want it 'pure'. Splitting up a sport race with 3 entries on what aids people use, no thank you!

Actually I would win a lot more races if I didn't have to race short shifting wheel users. I'm doing better now PD has removed the fuel save advantage from daily C races. They still have the advantage in tire wear though.

 

[Pigems]

It would surprise you but most modern racing cars have multiple settings of ABS and TC available. Driving with or without them is totally down to driver preference.

I didn’t know that but have often wondered, thanks for the info.

 

[Sander 001]

Just my honest opinion.

#1 The erratic actions.

By no means am I great at this game but I thoroughly enjoy it.
After all it is titled as "The Real Driving Simulator"
I just feel like it would level the playing field for both parties.
Like I said, just my opinion...

Please understand...
I did not mean this derogatory in any way.

What did I just say???
I am by no means great at this game!!!

You don’t explain why now. The first word in your title is Time so what makes this moment so important?

Why not when the game launched? Why not 6 months ago? Why not 6 months from now?

 

[DJShadesUK]

They [driving assists] don't make you faster, they only make you a safer driver on the track.

I don't think thats strictly true. If someone drives like a ham-fisted oaf then assists constantly fight their idiocy, thus slowing them down drastically (and may not even make them any "safer"). However, if someone is a good driver, using assists but driving like they are not, then those assists can compensate for the slight mistakes we all make from time-to-time. I don't think there is a single one of us, including the worlds top real-word and esports drivers, who, for instance, drives without TCS and can say they never spin up their wheels occasionally and lose hundredths or tenths. However a good driver, with TCS on, may lose just a thousandth of a second (if anything at all) due to the minute fraction the TCS backs off the throttle (far more accurately and quicker than a person could).

This is exactly why things like TCS and Active Suspension were banned from F1. They were no longer assists (as they would be for the average person) but enhancements; in the hands of great drivers they were making the cars far too fast for the safety standards at the time. They certainly weren't banned because they made the cars slower.

I also have CSA on weak, not sure what it does, it only lights up when I get punted, thus good when someone crashes into me. They are accessibility options. Sure I can drive without them, yet likely will be hitting people and go play something else.

CSA does exactly what it says on the tin, even on "weak". For the sake of full disclosure the only assist I use sometimes is CSA set to weak (mainly in my beloved Gr.3 WRX) and can run entire races without seeing the CSA light flash but lets not pretend we can always run every race without it ever coming on (excluding instances of contact with others). Like I said above; Without TCS nobody attempting to be competitive runs every race without the some wheelspin, similarly nobody attempting to be competitive can say they can run every race without occasionally inducing a bit of oversteer. I can't help but suspect you're stretching the truth a bit when you say it only lights up when you get punted; you're either slow or a better driver than the worlds best F1 drivers who still occasionally have their own little sideways moments. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, and I'm really not trying to start an argument, but to suggest you only have it on to compensate for others mistakes ("good when someone crashes into me") is a teeny-tiny bit disingenuous.

I'll be perfectly honest; the reason I occasionally use CSA, which is car dependent, on weak is because some cars are prone to a bit of oversteer more than others and I find using the DS4 sticks (as I do) lacks the subtlety of a wheel and its a lot more difficult to catch some of the sillier oversteery mistakes that I'd be able to with a wheel. What I don't do is use it to substitute a lack of ability, I use it to compensate a little for a DS4s lack of subtlety. What I also don't do is pretend I have it on for almost no reason and don't really know what its doing.

 

[mokalovesoulmat]

Hahahahaha

No.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I don't think thats strictly true. If someone drives like a ham-fisted oaf then assists constantly fight their idiocy, thus slowing them down drastically (and may not even make them any "safer"). However, if someone is a good driver, using assists but driving like they are not, then those assists can compensate for the slight mistakes we all make from time-to-time. I don't think there is a single one of us, including the worlds top real-word and esports drivers, who, for instance, drives without TCS and can say they never spin up their wheels occasionally and lose hundredths or tenths. However a good driver, with TCS on, may lose just a thousandth of a second (if anything at all) due to the minute fraction the TCS backs off the throttle (far more accurately and quicker than a person could).

This is exactly why things like TCS and Active Suspension were banned from F1. They were no longer assists (as they would be for the average person) but enhancements; in the hands of great drivers they were making the cars far too fast for the safety standards at the time. They certainly weren't banned because they made the cars slower.



CSA does exactly what it says on the tin, even on "weak". For the sake of full disclosure the only assist I use sometimes is CSA set to weak (mainly in my beloved Gr.3 WRX) and can run entire races without seeing the CSA light flash but lets not pretend we can always run every race without it ever coming on (excluding instances of contact with others). Like I said above; Without TCS nobody attempting to be competitive runs every race without the some wheelspin, similarly nobody attempting to be competitive can say they can run every race without occasionally inducing a bit of oversteer. I can't help but suspect you're stretching the truth a bit when you say it only lights up when you get punted; you're either slow or a better driver than the worlds best F1 drivers who still occasionally have their own little sideways moments. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, and I'm really not trying to start an argument, but to suggest you only have it on to compensate for others mistakes ("good when someone crashes into me") is a teeny-tiny bit disingenuous.

I'll be perfectly honest; the reason I occasionally use CSA, which is car dependent, on weak is because some cars are prone to a bit of oversteer more than others and I find using the DS4 sticks (as I do) lacks the subtlety of a wheel and its a lot more difficult to catch some of the sillier oversteery mistakes that I'd be able to with a wheel. What I don't do is use it to substitute a lack of ability, I use it to compensate a little for a DS4s lack of subtlety. What I also don't do is pretend I have it on for almost no reason and don't really know what its doing.

I did 4 C races without CSA this morning. (only 3 laps in the last one, disconnected due to data loss) I see zero difference while staying on the track. Same consistent lap times, same number of overtakes, same tendency to slide out of the final chicane, same way to avoid or catch it. Where I did notice a difference is when a car screwed up the final S curve, went into a slide and did the classic veer to the inside where I was, I avoided him by putting two wheels on the grass, which sucked me in more, was harder to recover from, resulting in time lost. The car causing the problem went off ahead and I got a short cut penalty. If that seems more fair, then so be it.

I'm not pretending, I know it helps when you touch grass, it doesn't help when you stay on the road and drive safely. I did see it help another driver that went wide at the exit of Spoon, he wobbled, straightened and I could pass him instead of him oscillating more and crashing into me. So please, use CSA, for the safety of others.

I'll leave it off for now. After 5300 races with it on, I should be able to notice a different without it. Suzuka GR.2, no effect.

Btw we're not driving F1 cars with tons of down force. R2 plus index finger is not a substitute for pedal + foot either. So TCS stays on. As for CSA, if it helps once every 10 races, does it really make a difference.... Perhaps it helps those that habitually cut corners. If it keeps them from spinning out in front of me, I'm fine with that. Less wrecks, better racing. I'll follow the penalty train while staying safely on the road. (It doesn't seem to help the banana peel kerbs anyway, I do crash now and then)

 

[Cerebral303]

I don't use CSA, but when I tried it the light was almost always flickering on at every corner, and I felt like I had less control like I was fighting the car.

In the early days I used ASM, without it in FIA races I would end up facing backwards at least once a race but turned it off months ago and don't miss it.

I think you get used to the aids and drive differently with or without them so the benefit depends on how used to using that aid you are. I would have to drive differently to get the most out of CSA.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I don't use CSA, but when I tried it the light was almost always flickering on at every corner, and I felt like I had less control like I was fighting the car.

In the early days I used ASM, without it in FIA races I would end up facing backwards at least once a race but turned it off months ago and don't miss it.

I think you get used to the aids and drive differently with or without them so the benefit depends on how used to using that aid you are. I would have to drive differently to get the most out of CSA.

Were you driving without TCS? Perhaps CSA replaces the function of TCS? I watch my replays (saved video) a lot to see who hit me and I never see that light come on until I get bumped into the grass. I do use TCS at 2 though and that does come on all the time out of corners. I still need to be careful on the throttle not to break out on corner exit yet after I'm straight I just press R2 down fully and let the game sort it out. My tire wear is awful, yet my fingers aren't cramping up

 

[Cerebral303]

Were you driving without TCS?

I can't remember! I think I tried both TSC on and off and didn't find CSA any better. It makes me feel like the car is driving on lumpy tyres with flat spots everywhere.

There will be some overlap with TCS and CSA though, but I expect only under acceleration so if you begin to accelerate out of a corner the TCS will limit a slip, and the CSA would also try and correct the cars sideways movement by countersteering. Under breaking and steering off throttle it shouldn't come on, but I haven't tested the lights to see.

 

[Pigems]

The only aids I use now are TCS 2 on Gr3 cars and above unless I’m on RS tires, I’m still to heavy with the right foot to turn it off in trace yet. I go without for hot laps because it’s faster though.

 

[DJShadesUK]

I did 4 C races without CSA this morning. (only 3 laps in the last one, disconnected due to data loss) I see zero difference while staying on the track. Same consistent lap times, same number of overtakes, same tendency to slide out of the final chicane, same way to avoid or catch it. Where I did notice a difference is when a car screwed up the final S curve, went into a slide and did the classic veer to the inside where I was, I avoided him by putting two wheels on the grass, which sucked me in more, was harder to recover from, resulting in time lost. The car causing the problem went off ahead and I got a short cut penalty. If that seems more fair, then so be it.

I'm not pretending, I know it helps when you touch grass, it doesn't help when you stay on the road and drive safely. I did see it help another driver that went wide at the exit of Spoon, he wobbled, straightened and I could pass him instead of him oscillating more and crashing into me. So please, use CSA, for the safety of others.

I'll leave it off for now. After 5300 races with it on, I should be able to notice a different without it. Suzuka GR.2, no effect.

Btw we're not driving F1 cars with tons of down force. R2 plus index finger is not a substitute for pedal + foot either. So TCS stays on. As for CSA, if it helps once every 10 races, does it really make a difference.... Perhaps it helps those that habitually cut corners. If it keeps them from spinning out in front of me, I'm fine with that. Less wrecks, better racing. I'll follow the penalty train while staying safely on the road. (It doesn't seem to help the banana peel kerbs anyway, I do crash now and then)

Were you driving without TCS? Perhaps CSA replaces the function of TCS? I watch my replays (saved video) a lot to see who hit me and I never see that light come on until I get bumped into the grass. I do use TCS at 2 though and that does come on all the time out of corners. I still need to be careful on the throttle not to break out on corner exit yet after I'm straight I just press R2 down fully and let the game sort it out. My tire wear is awful, yet my fingers aren't cramping up

The fact that you "know it helps when you touch the grass", yet makes it "harder to recover [from being on the grass]", "helps those that habitually cuts corners", "doesn't help when you stay on the road" and "perhaps CSA replaces the function of TCS" leads me to believe you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what CSA is trying to achieve. You did, for one fleeting moment, actually stumble towards what it does, but, unfortunately, the rest of the complete and utter nonsense around it, especially contradicting yourself about what happens on grass (does it help or does it make it harder?), makes me think that you think CSA is some sort of self-contradicting voodoo capable of providing far more benefits than it actually does.

With respect if you "never see that light come on until [you] get bumped", even on weak, then you're probably not trying hard enough. Oversteer is a fact of life in racing, absolutely nobody pushing their racing, lap after lap, avoids it. Nobody. Not in F1, not in LMP, not in anything. If even the best drivers F1 drivers in the world, in cars with enough downforce to theoretically be driven upside down, cannot completely avoid oversteer at all times then there is no way in the world, if you are really pushing it, would you completely avoid oversteer. Unless you really want to tell us all how you're better than Hamilton, Vettel, Räikkönen, Verstappen, et al?

Please don't take this personally but from the tone of your reply I don't believe its worth my time or effort to go into what CSA actually tries to achieve and debunk some of your misconceptions; your tone strikes me that you've already made up your mind what it does (and things that it does but doesn't). If I've misunderstood the tone of your reply I'll gladly apologise for my misunderstanding and go into CSA further if you wish; but I don't think I have and I don't believe you would anyway.

 

[Silver_Wolf]

Well as a DS4 user I've become a lot better at the game and being able to handle online races over my year or so (hard to believe I signed up a year ago today) but I would like to see the possibility of just racing against people with a controller than a wheel.

I will unlikely ever have a wheel for playing GT Sport with primarily due to long rage eyesight loss but also my console room is not big enough to have the required space for a wheel setup.

Given it's PD though I very much doubt they have the resource/time to separate out the two types of player base though!

 

[Sven Jurgens]

The fact that you "know it helps when you touch the grass", yet makes it "harder to recover [from being on the grass]", "helps those that habitually cuts corners", "doesn't help when you stay on the road" and "perhaps CSA replaces the function of TCS" leads me to believe you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what CSA is trying to achieve. You did, for one fleeting moment, actually stumble towards what it does, but, unfortunately, the rest of the complete and utter nonsense around it, especially contradicting yourself about what happens on grass (does it help or does it make it harder?), makes me think that you think CSA is some sort of self-contradicting voodoo capable of providing far more benefits than it actually does.

With respect if you "never see that light come on until [you] get bumped", even on weak, then you're probably not trying hard enough. Oversteer is a fact of life in racing, absolutely nobody pushing their racing, lap after lap, avoids it. Nobody. Not in F1, not in LMP, not in anything. If even the best drivers F1 drivers in the world, in cars with enough downforce to theoretically be driven upside down, cannot completely avoid oversteer at all times then there is no way in the world, if you are really pushing it, would you completely avoid oversteer. Unless you really want to tell us all how you're better than Hamilton, Vettel, Räikkönen, Verstappen, et al?

Please don't take this personally but from the tone of your reply I don't believe its worth my time or effort to go into what CSA actually tries to achieve and debunk some of your misconceptions; your tone strikes me that you've already made up your mind what it does (and things that it does but doesn't). If I've misunderstood the tone of your reply I'll gladly apologise for my misunderstanding and go into CSA further if you wish; but I don't think I have and I don't believe you would anyway.

As far as I know it stands for counter steer assist. What I think it does is smooth out steering inputs when trying to counter steer a skid, when loss of traction is detected. I avoid over steer like the plague, it always slows me down. I prefer slow in, accelerate out, avoiding oversteer. I'm not pushing the car as far as most people, and it seems I have a lot less accidents than most, which is how I gain most positions by staying consistent. My lap times are in the 1:52 range on Suzuka with the odd 1:51 best lap and tapering off to 1:53, 1:54 on lap 4 and 5 of my tires. Perhaps I'm not fast enough to make 'use' of csa.

I do oversteer sometimes, and I do counter steer when it happens, Yet I've never seen the light come on while correcting minor oversteer. I'm looking through my videos on you tube, only see it flicker once when I get bumped into a wall. Don't know what else to tell you, I don't feel a difference with it off after another couple races on Tokyo, err Suzuka.

 

[CopperySinger]

In my year of posting on the GTS forum, there seems to be an attitude from certain players wanting to keep others down by limiting their available options. Basically, "get a wheel, turn off all driver aids, and use a specified cam."

controllers and aids:
Its kinda like being in a drag race with someone with an identical car without checking under the hoods first. He leaves you in the dust, race over. Now at the end he tells you he had cold air intake and wet pack installed (something you didn't use). Im pretty sure average controller users are dominating in games like GT and Forza, but other higher tier sim racers are dominated by wheel users. why is this?!? Because it is meant to be this way; less sim=less need for a wheel and more need for in-game auto steering effects. It is funny to me how controller users go to the Pcar and Assetto Corsa forums and complain "why these stupid cars don't turn".... answer, because your using a stupid controller lol. Its also absurd how diehard sim wheel users complain about the lack of "sim feel in Forza and Gt sport"...... answer because these racing sims are made for controller users also. Now is it fair to mix wheel users and controller users in GT?!? I don't give a hoot because the wheel is where the best fun is had, and I have pretty much dominated several Forza lobbies with many wins and many years using a controller. I promise you, many of you in this forum if you enjoy racing, eventually you will get/try a wheel and will get hooked and never go back to controller. IMHO I think everyone should start with controller and play gt or forza then learn tuning settings to get your car better around the track, learn race craft, get faster and cleaner. Study study study how racing cars operate from aerodynamics wheels torque power to weight distribution and graduate from that; then learn to use a steering wheel and pedal set to eventually enjoy and understand higher order racing sims.

 

[devildog666]

Just my honest opinion.

I think there's way more DS4 users than wheel users. I don't think you should split the player base.

 

[Browners55]

Most everyone who has a wheel also has a controller. The entire thing is down to personal preference. People shouldn't say "Oh, you should use this for this game, and use this specific setup, not that setup." I get that there are some things that are mandatory, I'm not going to name them, but if you want to use them, then use them. If you don't want to, don't, and overall, please don't berate other people that have a different opinion than yours. Thanks, and have a good time racing.

 

[O604]

I'd be interested to know what % of players in Japan use a wheel. I don't have much contact with people in Japan anymore but when I did (PS2 days) they all laughed at the thought. Maybe things have changed? But I have a feeling most still play with a controller.

 

[05XR8]

I say separate the 6 years old from the 77 years old. No 6 yo should have to read what some of these players type in Sport Mode.

Then again, could be the 6yo typing some of those posts.

 

[breeminator]

Why the hell would you use, if I'm reading this correct, an on/off digital input method to steer? Do you use X/Sq as accelerate/brake too?

This guy plays FH4 with a keyboard for all steering/braking/acceleration, and is pretty handy, I think he was ranked in the world top 10 last time I looked:

In some of his videos he plays with an overlay on the screen so you can see when each key is being pressed.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Again, some people would seriously be better off just building a PC and buying a subscription to iRacing at this point.

GT Sport is never going to be the hardcore sim that you want it to be, nor should it.