What has PD ever done for us?

[brandon6i]

How do you know that PD felt even felt comfortable releasing it when they did? Some of you don't understand the relationship between a developer and a publisher. The developer makes the game according to a deadline which the producer sets.

If the developer isn't done, there are two options; 1) Producer pushes the release date for the developer, and 2) Producer releases the game as-is when the deadline passes.

Thankfully PD is implementing EVERYTHING YOU'VE BEEN ASKING FOR as soon as they possibly can. So suck it up, or move on.

 

[kazuyam]

You know, I really think the attitude (of late and in general) here, reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ

Life never changes much, does it?

HEY STOP THIS. That is a video of me and my GT5 league discussing the flaws of GT5. This was supposed to be secret.
And I still have to say, what did PD did for our fathers fathers and fathers.

 

[BlueSky]

Your sig says you want a zero miles E-Type Jag. Jeez you must really dislike the game. And as for the "competition" are we talking PS3 here? Which driving game is superior and more complete exactly? And as for other platforms, is Forza really better? Take a step back, are you sure? I am a fan of Forza too but seriously, some perspective please? And even if it is, GT5 is a pretty awesome game right? This forum and your part in it and your advertising for a particular car doesn't exactly imply a crappy game.

Fact is, there are features in GT5 that we would like, but there are very little true "bugs" and even those aren't anything that severely affects play. So it's not like a beta at all, because a game with features you don't like or lacking ones you would like does not constitute a "beta".

First off, thanks for your reply to my post. I have read and appreciate your opinion.

To answer your question, yes, I absolutely believe Forza 2 and Forza 3 provided a much better overall driving simulator experience than GT5. Both games provided many more events. They also provided better AI because it was adjustable so you could actually be somewhat challenged during a race. There are class limits on the races so you can't just overpower your competitors, you actually have to race them. I never once had to grind to buy cars, trade to get the cars that I wanted, or felt the need to buy them from the auction house (yet they had one even though I never used it). The car list was not full of "standard cars" with limited features. The car list was not full of redundant, mediocre models. The credits provided per race were sufficient to purchase whatever I needed, upgrade whatever I wanted and still have credits left in my virtual bank account. The driving physics were fine, GT series has always had the edge there but still Forza was very good in my opinion. But you are right, this is about a Gran Turismo game so let's just stick with that.

I'm not trying to be confrontational when I ask this but did you play GT4? If you did then how can you possibly feel that GT5 was a finished product when it hit the shelves? It took me many MONTHS to feel as though I "finished" GT4. This series traditionally isn't necessarily about "finishing" the game though. In the past it provided enough variation in content to provide endless driving enjoyment, which is completely lacking for me in GT5.

As for bugs... there is one in particular that is known to be fatal, the 4165kb bug. That was present when the game hit the shelves. There are others as well that DO affect game play. They just injected a new one with the 1.06 update. For some reason GT5 has been locking up on me now in various stages of the game for no apparent reason. It did not happen prior to 1.06. There are a lot of other bugs being discussed here on GTPlanet and elsewhere. So I still feel that my contention that GT5 was in "beta" state (meaning preliminary or testing state) when it was released, is a valid one. PD openly provides proof of my contention by providing updates to repair the bugs and updates to continually change GT5. If it was truly finished when it was released, they wouldn't need to provide updates. If it had been fully tested before release, the problems with the game would have shown up and should have been fixed prior to release. That's why I used the term "beta" to describe GT5.

I've been an avid fan of the GT series for quite a while. I pre-ordered GT5 and received it on the day that it released. I've been playing GT5 since but it's wearing very thin. It took me about a month and a half to "finish" GT5 to the point where I feel I'm finished. The only thing left for me with GT5 is to collect cars. That's what's left for me in GT5, collecting cars. That's why I have the request for a zero mile Jag in my sig. But I still don't see what relevance that had to my original post. The fact that I'm still on GTPlanet should have been enough to understand that I am still using GT5. Does that mean that it shouldn't be completed or fixed by PD just because I'm still using it in it's current unfinished state? I actually WANT to like it.

PD's reputation is on the line here. I will think long and hard before I buy any future GT releases. If GT5 isn't vastly improved by a future update, I don't think I'll be wasting my money on future releases (if there are any) at least until I read some extensive reviews first. Based on some of the posts in this forum, I'm sure there are others that feel the same way. It feels like PD rushed GT5 out the door just to have it on the shelves for the holiday shopping season. I'm not sure if PD made that decision or if they were forced into releasing it. I just find it baffling that it came out in the state it did after six years of development.

Don't get me wrong, there are things about GT5 that I do like, one of which was the ability to trade with others in the GT5 community. That is all but gone now except for the cheaper cars. I still don't feel GT5 was ready to be released. If I pay good money for something, I have an expectation that the item I bought will be a finished product. I'm kind of KOOKY that way...

 

[Afro1]

I remember how everyone was complaining about when it was going to get released and stuff.
So they listened to you and they released the game off schedule.
Why are you guys so shocked that the game wasnt up to your standards?

 

[BlueSky]

I remember how everyone was complaining about when it was going to get released and stuff.
So they listened to you and they released the game off schedule.
Why are you guys so shocked that the game wasnt up to your standards?

Well this is just a thought but maybe it's because it took them six years to develop and release?

 

[Afro1]

Well this is just a thought but maybe it's because it took them six years to develop and release?

Pretty much most of them years were spent modelling cars and working on replicating tracks.
Maybe if you "GT fans" let them release the game when they wanted to you wouldnt be moaning right now but people these days dont have patience.
Duke Nukem Forever has been in the making for 10 years, atleast when they release the finished product it will be what they wanted.

Why do you think we're getting all these updates? If the game was released with everything done we could of been getting new cars and new tracks.

 

[BlueSky]

Why do you think we're getting all these updates? If the game was released with everything done we could of been getting new cars and new tracks.

Exactly... 👍

 

[GrimSinn]

They brought the world Gran Turismo in a world that was arcade racing Hell. Nuff said...

 

[southslider51]

What has PD ever done for us?

They gave us/me insane amounts of virtual driving pleasure!👍

Is there ANY other game out there that you have been playing for 14 YEARS?!

 

[RichyJ]

Well this is just a thought but maybe it's because it took them six years to develop and release?

There seems to be an odd fascination on this site with the assumption that PD has spent every waking hour since GT4 was released working on GT5...

 

[Limelight788]

Expectations way too high based on what the developer and publisher is telling everyone.

"Expect perfection" - Yeah Kazunori-San we did and you fell so short of that boast we might as well call you a liar.

Regardless of whenever or not Kaz said to expect perfection, the simple fact of life is that no game will ever be perfect. A game will not last forever in enjoyment and will have at least one minor flaw in the game that keeps it from perfection. Don't get me wrong, I have my complaints about the game as well after it was released, but a statement like that you have to take with a grain of salt or you will end up disappointed. The reason why I haven't put down my copy of the game yet is because I don't set a game to unreasonable expectations and I still feel it's a great game getting better with updates.

 

[sparkedglory]

What has PD done for us? Well I can't speak for everyone else, but for me personally, they've given me a game that I enjoy. Simple as that, does it have it's problems? sure, but plenty of games do. It's fun to me, and I'll play it as much as I can, and I'll enjoy every second of it.

And some of you guys need to cool it. It's not that easy to develop a game.

 

[TRC GeorgiaDawg]

Why do people think that PD owes us anything? Don't get me wrong, i am all ears for updates to the game, but i am grateful for them, they aren't obliged to do this and most companies would not.

Not to jump on you personally, because you're not alone obviously in thinking like this. But really, it is this exact attitude you posted up there that is the sole problem in gaming today. Too many unwilling to hold the developers to any reasonable standards of quality that you would hold any other business to. PD owes it's customer everything they promised. They released a game that got nowhere near delivering what was promised. They OWE that to their customers. Just the same as if you went to the furniture store and ordered the most expensive dining room set, but the store only delivered you the chairs. You'd say the store still owed you a table, because that was what was promised at the point of sale.

Until consumers quit thinking of developers as some benevolent figure deserving of thanks and praise beyond the 60 bucks you drop we're going to continue to see the quality of the games decrease year after year. The developers have no motivation to improve because they know people are going to buy anyways. They know there will be complaints. But they know that the fanboy army will shout down the consumers with rightful and legitimate complaints until they eventually give up.

You have no need to show them any more gratitude. You gave them all the thanks and gratitude they deserved (more really) when you gave them your hard earned cash.

 

[BlueSky]

There seems to be an odd fascination on this site with the assumption that PD has spent every waking hour since GT4 was released working on GT5...

An interview with Kazunori Yamauchi was posted on October 5, 2009 here on GTPlanet, in which Kaz (in his own words) stated that the development of GT5 took about 5 years. That was in 2009. The game wasn't released until November 2010. That's why people are saying it took PD six years to develop. Not because it's an assumption, but because Kaz himself stated it.

https://www.gtplanet.net/yamauchi-interview-reveals-more-on-gt5-development/

 

[C_Raccoon23]

The reason why I haven't put down my copy of the game yet is because I don't set a game to unreasonable expectations and I still feel it's a great game getting better with updates.

Would you say it's unreasonable to expect the game to come with advertised features that were even mentioned in the manual since day 1, such as matchmaking, and still haven't shown up yet? Because that's exactly why I stopped playing for the time being.

 

[Bounkazz]

You know, I really think the attitude (of late and in general) here, reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ

Life never changes much, does it?

They made you atleast 12 Gran Turismo's by heart...

 

[Limelight788]

Would you say it's unreasonable to expect the game to come with advertised features that were even mentioned in the manual since day 1, such as matchmaking, and still haven't shown up yet? Because that's exactly why I stopped playing for the time being.

If my licensing issues argument at my first post in this thread indicates anything (Which almost certainly does), I wouldn't be surprise if that contributed to amount of missing features in the game and the incredibly long development. Another thing is that nowadays, you can't just take several months on a game and expect it to be quality, it takes longer and longer to make games that are among the best, which is something we can't do anything about unless we had a console dedicated to retro-like games. With both factors standing against them, I think Polyphony had three options to make:

1. Release the game as soon as possible with all the features it advertised, but with much less amount of cars (I'm not talking about duplicates, but cars the people enjoy driving in the game, quality of the cars would have been worse IMO).

2. Delay the game even further just to include promise contents, delaying the game up to late 2011/early 2012.

3. Release what they have now and add in the contents they promise at all deliberate speed.

First option would have made the quality of the game worse. It would have been more rushed and the bugs would be considerably worse.

Had Polyphony done the second option, I would not have a PlayStation 3, since I bought the console with this game being the most significant factor and instead would have bought more Wii games/get a 3DS console later on instead. That's not to say the PS3 doesn't have other good games, just that I'm willing to wait for my most anticipated game of this generation, because I want to ensure I get the best out of my PS3 and don't want it to collect dust for months just for one game.

IMO, the third option was the best option. The game isn't nearly as rushed, has more cars, bugs with the exception of the Save Kill Bug aren't serious enough to concern me, and to me, came at a great time. I highly doubt Polyphony had a choice anyway, considering that everyone wanted the game released as soon as possible and it was getting to the point where sales were being affected by the delays.

 

[Afro1]

Would you say it's unreasonable to expect the game to come with advertised features that were even mentioned in the manual since day 1, such as matchmaking, and still haven't shown up yet? Because that's exactly why I stopped playing for the time being.

Advertised? Just because a trailer shows something dosen't mean thats going to be featured in the game. Also we already have matchmaking
Like Limelight said, people put there expectations to high these days. I for one was playing game since PS1 days. Back then we didnt have any of the stuff we have today. Tomb Raider was a god like game back then, Everything was 3D and it had real time shooting and puzzles.

GT5 gave us amazing graphics and realistic tracks yet no one satsified. Thats the thing with people these days, your forgetting what games came from.

 

[r0llinlacs]

You should try playing Fallout 3 or Fallout New Vegas... On second thoughts...

I have them both on PC. I've yet to see any "real" bugs in New Vegas (aside from the limitations of the game engine which become apparent when using G.E.C.K.) There are no game-breaking balance issues either.

 

[andmen]

Advertised? Just because a trailer shows something dosen't mean thats going to be featured in the game. Also we already have matchmaking
Like Limelight said, people put there expectations to high these days. I for one was playing game since PS1 days. Back then we didnt have any of the stuff we have today. Tomb Raider was a god like game back then, Everything was 3D and it had real time shooting and puzzles.

GT5 gave us amazing graphics and realistic tracks yet no one satsified. Thats the thing with people these days, your forgetting what games came from.

I have been playing for longer than you (I had a NES and before that an Atari 2600) but i disagree that we forgot where games came from. I have bored my wife to death showing her the amazing quality of the premium cars on GT5..but should that be enough? My expectations for this game where to have everything we had in previous GT's but with better graphics and Ferraris. We have better graphics (For premium cars..) and we have some Ferraris (compared to Forza...or to the Skylines..) but we have very little A-spec and we have some programming that makes you wonder who was in charge (You can paint your car provided you have the paint chip which you can get if you get the car..really?? Why not sell the damn chip..or let you pick from a palette as Forza or any other game..Or the fact that you CANT preview your car with the new paint on, or save that configuration..or that we have less wheels than before..or that you cant fast forward/rewind during replays..etc..).

This game can still be amazing if they continue patching it and eventually release more premium cars+A-spec events and fix these programming idiocities..

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Advertised? Just because a trailer shows something dosen't mean thats going to be featured in the game. Also we already have matchmaking
Like Limelight said, people put there expectations to high these days. I for one was playing game since PS1 days. Back then we didnt have any of the stuff we have today. Tomb Raider was a god like game back then, Everything was 3D and it had real time shooting and puzzles.

GT5 gave us amazing graphics and realistic tracks yet no one satsified. Thats the thing with people these days, your forgetting what games came from.

I'm not talking about trailers. I'm talking about features they say are in the game, but are not here. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Really? There's matchmaking? Because I certainly don't see it. And no, Open Lobby doesn't count. Matchmaking and Open Lobby are two different things, according to the manual.

This is what the manual says about Matchmaking:

Matchmaking

For a quick race and exciting competition, select one of the available online race events and get matched up against other players for heated races. Rack up wins to earn credits to put towards upgrade parts, more cars, and more. Matchmaking features a variety of race events and pits players together RANDOMLY for heated races.

By the description it sounds like Matchmaking will be similar to the online events like the ones in Prolouge. That was what matchmaking was like. We must have diffrent copies of GT5, because I have yet to see the parts I put in bold appear in the game.

 

[Tenacious D]

Like Limelight said, people put there expectations to high these days. I for one was playing game since PS1 days. Back then we didnt have any of the stuff we have today. Tomb Raider was a god like game back then, Everything was 3D and it had real time shooting and puzzles.

GT5 gave us amazing graphics and realistic tracks yet no one satisfied. That's the thing with people these days, your forgetting what games came from.

Limelight and Afro1 summed it up for me, as well once again, sumbrownkid. Unless something intrudes such as the need to write or work on music, or I'm just too tired, I've been playing one game since the end of November. That's what Polyphony has done for me.

Some of you people act like they haven't patched a damn thing since release. This board is getting too full of fail to pay attention to anymore, nothing sensible to post to these days...

 

[Afro1]

I'm not talking about trailers. I'm talking about features they say are in the game, but are not here. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Really? There's matchmaking? Because I certainly don't see it. And no, Open Lobby doesn't count. Matchmaking and Open Lobby are two different things, according to the manual.

This is what the manual says about Matchmaking:



By the description it sounds like Matchmaking will be similar to the online events like the ones in Prolouge. That was what matchmaking was like. We must have diffrent copies of GT5, because I have yet to see the parts I put in bold appear in the game.

Oh I thought that was just like online lobby, sorry.
If it's in the manual then it must be a feature which was going to be added but they didnt have enough time to actually implement it before the release date. Probably will come in an update, sounds pretty cool though.

 

[Afro1]

I have been playing for longer than you (I had a NES and before that an Atari 2600) but i disagree that we forgot where games came from. I have bored my wife to death showing her the amazing quality of the premium cars on GT5..but should that be enough? My expectations for this game where to have everything we had in previous GT's but with better graphics and Ferraris. We have better graphics (For premium cars..) and we have some Ferraris (compared to Forza...or to the Skylines..) but we have very little A-spec and we have some programming that makes you wonder who was in charge (You can paint your car provided you have the paint chip which you can get if you get the car..really?? Why not sell the damn chip..or let you pick from a palette as Forza or any other game..Or the fact that you CANT preview your car with the new paint on, or save that configuration..or that we have less wheels than before..or that you cant fast forward/rewind during replays..etc..).

This game can still be amazing if they continue patching it and eventually release more premium cars+A-spec events and fix these programming idiocities..

If you started gaming in the early years then you must be able to understand where I'm coming from.
I agree we have little A spec events and there are some design faults but either way its not as bad as some people are making out.
The game would have been perfect if they had more time. IMO they should have focused on single player first.

 

[Tyger]

It's a forum dedicated to GT. I have the right to criticize GT. I have the right also to criticize people that think it's blasphemy to say anything bad about a game company. Are you the "GTP Opinion Police" to decide which are the only opinions allowed? As long as I don't insult anyone and I don't break any forum rules I can post anything I like.

Yes. I bought the game which was called "The Real Driving Simulator" to drive the cars. Not for the "challenge" of commanding Bob or handling the very few virtual money I win by driving crappy rides to be able to drive better cars. Is that irrational?

Also your Sonic the Hedgehog example is bogus. Sonic is a platform game, not a driving game. And even sonic had a cheat to select the level you wanted. And I am glad it did as I didn't have the skill, patience or time to finish it and thanks to the cheat I was able to see all the levels and have fun with the game. Back then "cheats" in games were considered cool, developers implemented them and users were searching and sharing them. Now people like you consider them immoral! And the worst thing people like you think that when I use the cheat I destroy the game for you! How moronic is that?!!

Any other driving game when you progress enough unlock all cars! Also simulation games on PC have all their content unlocked from the beginning. And there are some driving games that allow you to buy a relatively cheap DLC to unlock all cars and tracks! PD and GT5 is the only exception and also it's the only game with so bad progression you should have to do idiotic things like B-Spec, Remote Races and rubberband grinding to have enough money to drive the cars you want!

That's because these developers are sane enough to understand that people play driving games to drive cars and sometimes they may not have the patience or time to unlock them! Of course PD is not sane but the most unfortunate thing is they have insane fans like you who think that the way others play their game offline has an effect on how you enjoy the game! 👎

Why post here? My previous post was because I wanted to answer to the OP with a Monty Python video that was relevant to his attitude and was mirroring his post! But you are right, honestly, I shouldn't bother to post in here and bother to argue with people like you! Or expect that PD is going to do something to fix the driving/racing aspect of GT5!

Facile arguments all round, sadly. You can cheat in GT5 (for now anyway) to progress more quickly, it's called duping. I never said there's anything "immoral" about using cheats either, you made that up out of thin air. But for people to claim they have been ripped off because they can't unlock all the cars within 3 months of release is ridiculous.

I also never said you had no right to criticise GT (again you imagined that too), my beef was with you crying that there are fans of GT5 on a GT-dedicated forum. Well duh. It's all too easy to mark them all off as fanboys isn't it? And yes per my other post I do find it odd that people join a dedicated forum just to knock a game, you don't see that so much in things like band forums, where typically you are more likely to find people who enjoy the band and want to share the experience. Don't be criticising those people.

Also they are updates, not "patches", some minor issues were fixed but they are changes to the game, not fixed for fundamental bugs because unlike many other games/patches, there are actually very little in the way of true "bugs". Just because you don't like something doesn't make it a bug, son.

Lastly, I love a lot of racing games, all different types, I loved Forza too though only played the first one. And I wish a few things were different about GT also and think PD made some odd decisions, as well as some that are really their call and not for me to imply it should have been done differently based on how *I* might do it. This does not make me an "insane fan" but if you want to keep falling back on that (see above) just keep going, it will wear out eventually.

I would be interested to know if you actually play GT5 or just bash it on here. I'm guessing you don't play it or like it at all, it being such a "mess" and all, so you just bash away at it in a dedicated forum. Sad.

 

[Tyger]

Also apologies for double post but folks, for pity's sake let's remember this game has only been out since November, and we've already had several updates addressing some minor issues but mainly putting some improvements in place.

We've also had weekly/bi-weekly seasonal events.

There's every chance we will get more tracks and cars eventually, but it's only been three months. Hold your horses, jeez.

 

[Snakebitten]

Yaaaawnnn. The game is an undebugged, unfinished mess. Its trying to be all things but lost its focus. Even the patches arent playtested and debugged it seems. That should tell you something about PD's focus on this one. This game will never resemble a polished, well rounded piece. To believe that it will by means of patches is being gullible. The online gimmick wore off pretty quickly for me so I got to focus on how severely lacking the core game is. There is a lot to whine about. Hate me for stating the obvious it so-k.

On the other hand I cannot deny it has given me quite a bit of fun once I figured out I had to severely handicap myself to have fun lol. The premium models are beautiful to look at as are a lot of the tracks. I love the different variations of the Nurburgring, Le Sarthe etc and I enjoy B-Spec though very exasperating at times. The weather changes are a nice touch. The course maker is not a bad touch though it could be improved a bit. There is a lot like about this game as well. Hate me for stating the obvious

I wonder if anything in human history, from important to trivial, got changed when people remained silent and didnt keep complaining despite people telling them to shut up.

 

[Tyger]

I wonder if anything in human history, from important to trivial, got changed when people remained silent and didnt keep complaining despite people telling them to shut up.

That's fair comment, but it just feels the amount of bashing in these forums is disproportionate to the quality of the game. Maybe it's cause people are more likely to shout with complaints and praise, although it often seems to be the same voices, whereas the very size of these forums and number of posts suggests many people are having a blast.

I'm not a fanboy by any means, i've been playing video games since 1982 and that includes all the GT games, but it just feels like the issues GT5 has have been blown up out of all proportion here, only 3 months in, when already many things have been addressed.

Also I would argue that there are quirks and things PD have implemented oddly, but these aren't "bugs". I'm actually not aware of there having been many true "bugs" in the game at all, just things that could have been implemented more effectively or differently, several of which have already been addressed. That's why they are updates, not "patches". I've seen a LOT more true bugs in other games on release, many of them very good games.

 

[Stephen220378]

Also apologies for double post but folks, for pity's sake let's remember this game has only been out since November, and we've already had several updates addressing some minor issues but mainly putting some improvements in place.

We've also had weekly/bi-weekly seasonal events.

There's every chance we will get more tracks and cars eventually, but it's only been three months. Hold your horses, jeez.

You still haven't replied to both my posts directed at you, lost for words?

 

[BlueSky]

Also I would argue that here are quirks and things PD have implemented oddly, but these aren't "bugs". I'm actually not aware of there having been many true "bugs" in the game at all, just things that could have been implemented more effectively or differently, several of which have already been addressed. That's why they are updates, not "patches". I've seen a LOT more true bugs in other games on release, many of them very good games.

I'd also like to point out that you didn't respond to my post either in which I very plainly pointed out to you that there are indeed BUGS in GT5. I directly pointed out (2), one of which is fatal for the game save. The other, which developed after the 1.06 update, is annoying and locks the game up solid during game play requiring you to exit the game completely. They are both serious bugs, not quirks! You initiated a conversation with me by responding to my original post, then you didn't even bother to read or acknowledge my response back to you.