Forza vs. Gran Turismo: A War of Words
Few franchises in the gaming world can trigger such heated debate as Forza and Gran Turismo. The reason for the rivalry is obvious, with each high-profile game competing for hearts and minds on the front lines of the “console wars”. Up until this year, however, Microsoft’s Turn 10 Studios and Kazunori Yamauchi’s Polyphony Digital worked quietly on their respective titles and delivered driving games of excellent quality for each console. As the online rhetoric of fans begins to heat up, however, that code of silence is beginning to melt away. Here’s what Yamauchi had to say about the competition while speaking with NowGamer just last week:
“[...] I keep my eye on them from a distance. My observations tend to more often than not centre on, ‘Oh, so they’re concentrating extra hard on this’, or ‘oh, so they’re not worried about that’, or ‘they’ve really got a lot of passion for that’. All my observations are first-impression sort of things. I don’t look at the games in too much detail. Just a one-glance observation is good enough. I think about what they’re trying to do, how much time they’re spending, how they’re going about putting the game together, how do they feel about the game as they’re making it… that sort of thing.”
Yamauchi’s comments stand in contrast to what Turn 10‘s Creative Director, Dan Greenawalt, said about him at E3 earlier this year:
“We watched the Sony press conference and we were like, OK so we just brought what we believe firmly is the best racing game ever made, and our competition didn’t show up. So now you can see why I’m fairly bullish. I hate to sound so cocky but the truth is the stars have aligned. I don’t know how else to say it.
“Kazunori Yamauchi-san is someone I have tremendous respect for. I have tremendous respect for the work of team, but I am a GT fan. I bought my first car that I stressed out about buying because I played it in Gran Turismo. I’m in this industry because of that game.
“That said, as a fan of the series, he hasn’t done anything for me in years. So in many ways he’s handing the baton to me. He probably doesn’t see it that way, but I do, because I believe that I’m now taking what he ignited in me as a passion, and taking it to a much, much, much broader level. I’m not saying it’s necessarily larger yet, but definitely broader, younger, older, men, women. So I’m really excited.”
And, via Joystiq,
“So, props to Kazunori Yamauchi-san and the PS1 team. That said, I feel that he’s passed us the baton. Perhaps he hasn’t meant to, but we have taken the genre to new levels and they’ve stopped evolving the genre. So again, tremendous respect to him, but I’d say the differentiator is they’re old school. The emperor’s naked, and I don’t want to, you know, I don’t want to slap him around, but no game competes [with] us right now.”
…and Xbox360Achievements:
“I play a lot of racing games, including PC racing games and I have not seen anything that is even within years of what we’re delivering here.”
As this war of words plays out, it’s becoming evident that, to Yamauchi, it may not be a “war” at all. As we learn more about him, he appears to view himself as an artist, judging his work by the standards of his own ideals. Likewise, when analyzing the work of his peers, he does not try to compare it to his own – instead, he attempts to understand their interpretation of what a racing game should be, and how their work may have lived up to their own goals.
Heated rhetoric aside, it’s very interesting to see how two very different groups of people approach the same problem. Yamauchi, in his quest for the perfect driving simulation, delivers games of stunning quality. Turn 10, in their pursuit of the GT franchise, introduce innovative new features to differentiate their product in unique and creative ways. Ultimately, it’s a race from which neither will emerge “victorious” over the other, because racing game fans have already won.
You should follow GTPlanet on Facebook, and on Twitter @GTPlanetNews. You can also get GTPlanet's news by full-text RSS feed, or delivered via email, straight to your inbox every day.
Newest comments are displayed first.
-
October 21st, 2009 at 7:30 pm - #rocketcaron
As much as I love FM, these comments by Dan Greenawalt are laughable… This kind of arrogance is stupid and only stupid fanboys will be impressed by it.
Again, I love Forza Motorsport. I think FM2 is the best racing ”sim” to ever grace any console and although FM3 will certainly be an awesome game, GT5 look like the monster that Turn 10 should fear. A big, ugly, cold fear.
They (T10) also have a big problem with their wheels. Microsoft standard wheel is just ok gameplay wise but is very fragile and god knows I beat up those things. Fanatec wheel seems wonderful but is very expensive and can only be purchased online. Does any real racing gamer wants to play these games with a gamepad?
I think if you own only one console you are a winner because both games will be immensely satisfying. But Dan Greenawalt needs to shut up, because unless Polyphony completely mess up the driving physic (NOT!), his franchise is in second place, wisch at that game pretty much means LAST.
-
October 21st, 2009 at 1:16 pm - #SouthSideSlider
i hate to say this other then the first reply just about every post in here has been fanboys. which i sad because chances are most of them have never played any of the forza franchise.
now as for Dan.G “bashing” GT5 hes marketing a product people are you stupid? when GT5 comes out you’ll hear simliar claims for GT5′s marketing team.
I remember when forza 1 came out i didn’t even have an xbox yet but seeing as i have bought every GT out to that point yet(bought GT3 before i even had a PS2. LOL)i figured i should try this new sim on xbox and Suprise it was AWESOME! the depth of online gameplay on Xbox far suppased GT4 which relyed on systems such as Xlinks Kai. and for me thats what set GT apart from Forza. GT is a very heavy single person game but the Online experiance has always been missing or dull. in stark contrast Forza is based heavily around the Xbox Live community.
now as for GT having more cars i can garrantte that the forza community will tune and paint up at the different versions of the Skyline that GT will have LOL.(you all know its true GT4 had what 50 Skyline GT-Rs just in the R32-R34 models.LOL)
unfortenatly i am off to work now so i’ll come reply to the more inteigant flames once i get home.
-
October 21st, 2009 at 8:35 am - #driftking18594
Greenswalt is setting a bad example of American game producers to the worst of the world. I hope Kazunori-san and PD kick his arse!
-
October 20th, 2009 at 7:40 pm - #ralph89
Dan G is funny. That’s all I can say :lol:
-
October 20th, 2009 at 6:47 pm - #Judas
To me Forza and Gran Turismo have always been apples and oranges. Sure, they both have similar themes and features, but they’re very different in their approaches and goals. That’s why I find it extremely hard to compare the two.
Yes, I do have a favorite of the two, but just because I prefer one over the other does not mean I think the other one’s bad. It’s just not to my taste as much as the other.
-
October 20th, 2009 at 4:50 pm - #GtCuba
Lmao thus is why I hate Microsoft and their dev teams, why do they feel the need to bash others and claim they`re best? Forza is a good game no doubt but I`m 100 % positive that Gran Turismo 5 will be in a whole different league.
-
October 20th, 2009 at 11:30 am - #maxpontiac
tek9[r] -
There you go. Almost like an old west showdown at noon. If that werre to happen, it would be over befor it even began..
-
October 20th, 2009 at 8:43 am - #GMW
Wow!! The developers at Turn 10 must have been given some seriously high sales target by Microsoft with the threat of their jobs if they don’t achieve. Hence all the ‘we are the best’ propaganda!
-
October 20th, 2009 at 7:09 am - #slaphappygunner
as the old saying goes- he who laughs last, laughs hardest.
-
October 20th, 2009 at 5:46 am - #GaBe_LoGaN
I thought GT5 is almost finished.
I played the Forza 3 demo, driving an Audi R8 without any “electronic” help (TC, braking etc..), and I don’t like it at all, It doesn’t give me any feel of realism. I don’t like the crashes either, I don’t understand why forza 3 players claim that is so real, when is the opposite. Take a car and go straight to a wall @ 100km/h – 60mph, and then tell me if you can continue the race after the crash…
-
October 20th, 2009 at 3:09 am - #The Masfer
I have to admit at the moment forza looks better but it’s almost finished gt5 is only at 65 percent
-
October 20th, 2009 at 2:45 am - #gtone339
3Axis Says:
October 19th, 2009 at 8:41 pm“That said, as a fan of the series, he hasn’t done anything for me in years.”
Like what? Do what for you? Your being a fan of GT entitles you to favours from Yamauchi?
——————-
Yeah is he scared to ask Kaz for favours?
-
October 20th, 2009 at 12:27 am - #rand al thor
There’s a famous saying. The weakest Dog barks the loudest. the story of dan greenwalt and turn 10
-
October 20th, 2009 at 12:18 am - #tek9[r]
The only way to solve this: Dan vs. Kaz @ the Nurburgring. I wonder what they would drive?
-
October 19th, 2009 at 11:42 pm - #Tenacious D
To my amazement, Michael said pretty much what I was meaning to.
Kazunori-dono is very much a visionary artist, creating a work which is like art and a gift in one package. The fact that it’s amazingly fun is a huge bonus.
Dan Greenawalt reminds me of a mafia don with a gun in his coat. He scowls and glares at you, and almost seems to dare you to disagree with him. He practically shouts at you how awesome the game is. It’s almost like he’s afraid you won’t like it. And the thing is, if FW3 was so awesome, it could do most of the speaking for itself. The fact that it needs Dan’s help says a lot.
The demo is a lot like Forza 2, which is fine, but hardly what I’d call Forza torn down and rebuilt from the floor up. It looks like the same models, the same too-wide Nurburgring, feels like the same physics just tweaked a bit. And he should have said something like, “We took Forza 2 to the next level, and we think with all the new cars, the new tracks, the new livery options and new store front, this is the Forza you’ve been dreaming of.” That would have been dandy. But he’s wee’d in the pool now, and he and his game now have an aroma and a yellow stain that may never go away.
-
October 19th, 2009 at 11:32 pm - #Bank Alexander
LevelHead
No. ^_^
-
October 19th, 2009 at 10:56 pm - #Zmann42087
This is pretty typical. And basically nothing that I wouldn’t expect from either party. In essence, Kaz = Class & Dan = Ass
-
October 19th, 2009 at 8:41 pm - #3Axis
“That said, as a fan of the series, he hasn’t done anything for me in years.”
Like what? Do what for you? Your being a fan of GT entitles you to favours from Yamauchi?
-
October 19th, 2009 at 8:13 pm - #smthrlr
Alright, I guess I have to hand it to GTP for putting this up because I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say that it is a set up to start a flam–I mean, comparison discussion to end all comparison discussions.
First off, I will disclaim that I do not own a PS3 at this juncture. I do, however, own a 360 because a) I was given an Xbox for my birthday way back when and I am a loyal fan of the console and b) when it came time to buy a new system (notice that I did not say “next gen” because I have heard that the 360 is not a true “next gen” console, whatever that means) the 360 was more affordable and FM2/PGR4 were in the pipeline and I remembered how much I had loved those games the first time around (PGR2/FM). I have always been a fan of racing games both on the PC and the PS/PS2–NFS (Porsche Unleashed, mainly), Rally Trophy, Mobil 1 British Rally Championship, Test Drive, F1 2000-2002, the original GT mods for the EA F1 games, GT Legends and so on for the PC, but the GT series and the GT series only on the PS/PS2. I had the Xbox plus a good gaming PC but came this close to buying a full-size PS2 just so I could play GT4–luckily, I had a friend that had grown tired of gaming (?) and basically “lent” me his PS2 for an, ahem, undisclosed amount of time (I eventually finished GT4 and had to remind him that I still had his console!) so I got GT4 and absolutely loved it, especially for the DTM championship, which I must have played through with every DTM car in the game many times over.
The point of all this is to show that I am not a FM fanboy, even though I still firmly believe that many of the comments flaming the game are undeserved because it is a great game. I disagree with the physics argument because from what I remember the physics model hasn’t changed in a long time; you can still bounce of AI cars in order to properly round a turn and so on—this was much more difficult to do in FM, mainly because of the damage model. Now, it seems this will no longer be an issue with GT5 but I will believe it when I see it.
Now, the argument here seems more and more about developer v developer rather than game v game so I will weigh in on this by saying that yes, Greenwalt/T10/and MSoft are very cocky but think of it this way: For the first time that I can remember, the GT series finally has some competition. I don’t want to hear that it’s no competition because it’s a different system because many on both these and FM forums seem to have both systems so this can be discussed as a competition. For the first time, GT won’t be able to simply plough forward thinking they are the only fish in the sea because it seems that FM won’t go away like Sega GT did, or Tokyo Extreme racing, or Driving Emotion S and so on. I feel that Greenwalt has to show his confidence because he’s taking a genuine run at the crown of racing games and he has such a steep hill to climb with very little to lose. KY, on the other hand, really has a lot to lose which is why I feel that the GT series has had such an evolutionary life over the last few years/iterations—kind of a “if it ain’t broke, why fix it?” approach.
That all being said, I am looking forward to both games—it’s a good time to be a car guy, y’know?
GTPlanet on Google+
@southsideslider, i don’t think i’ve ever seen a GT marketing scheme where they said GT is the best, it is better than all,or it has not competition, or we are #1,or no other game comes close, er you get it don’t you.so then now what. it is the fanboys like myself who talk up GT cause the game speaks for itself. that’s the way GT has always been.