2014 United Sports Car Championship

[IforceV8]

I get the absence in Detroit because of Le Mans but the rest make no sense to me.

Well Pirelli World Challenge is running at Long Beach too so they dont need the PC/GTD cars and splitting the field at Laguna could be because of pit space and/or lapped traffic concerns.

 

[Earth]

As I expected, IMSA is reviewing the caution flag procedure.

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/tusc/imsa-to-review-safety-car-procedures-on-board-camera-ids/

 

[cnd01]

So what do you say we do on a Porsche? It is confusing to a causal fan but not that hard to explain, GTD is closer to your street version, GTLM is a race car is simple enough for most to get it. You try to do anything to get rid of one, you are screwing those teams out of a chance and I hardly call 3 911's a huge field in GTLM anyway.

I can see how it could be at Sebring an issue between GT classes because of how dark it can be.

If it were me calling the shots, there would be hopefully 2 classes 3 max. I would cut GTLM, but that would probably put the series in a bind financially due to the manufacturer presence putting money in the series. So that's pretty much not gonna happen. With a 3 class system, I would've given all 5 LMP1&2 teams from the ALMS a credit for a DP chassis of their choice. That would've removed the BoP headache. That would be the P class. Some minor and cheap upgrades would be all that's necessary. Keep the GTLM class as is for Le Mans link. GTD cars would have the stock body shape. I'd allow the tube frame cars in it like the grand am RX-8 and Camaro in with the others as long as those cars kept an approved engine that is subject to BoP as well. No aero or major modifications from the stock spec. So no wings, dive planes, wide fenders, or engine swaps (looking at the Z4) for the sake of performance. Of course, safety modifications will be necessary as well as BoP measures. No number panels, colored mirrors, or driver ratings. Now that's a 3 class series that's easy on the team's wallet, easy to follow, and easy to steward.

 

[RACECAR]

For people like us, it's easy to tell the difference. Having to explain the 2 class GT system to people who don't know nearly as much as us on here generates 2 responses. They are "Why?" and "That's dumb." Gotta make it easier to follow even though it might make people mad.

Thing is even visually, you can see a difference between the two with the GTLM car having far wider hips then the GTD car so right off that's different. I could understand if the fans get the Vipers confused as the GTD car literally only differs in the size of the rear wing or the Z4s as both have extensive bodywork that's wider then the normal car, but I can't see how the Porsches car be mistaken visually.

 

[MrWednesday]

If cars are to be left parked "late" in a race, what constitutes late? If you say last hour, well, that's more than a third of the race for the "regular" events, which are 2:45 in length.

Answering my own question (sort of), IMSA currently defines "late" in a race as the last 30 minutes with respect to use of a shortened FCY procedure.

 

[Bo]

but I can't see how the Porsches car be mistaken visually.

I know, you'd have to be an IMSA official or something.

 

[raven214]

If it were me calling the shots, there would be hopefully 2 classes 3 max. I would cut GTLM, but that would probably put the series in a bind financially due to the manufacturer presence putting money in the series. So that's pretty much not gonna happen. With a 3 class system, I would've given all 5 LMP1&2 teams from the ALMS a credit for a DP chassis of their choice. That would've removed the BoP headache. That would be the P class. Some minor and cheap upgrades would be all that's necessary. Keep the GTLM class as is for Le Mans link. GTD cars would have the stock body shape. I'd allow the tube frame cars in it like the grand am RX-8 and Camaro in with the others as long as those cars kept an approved engine that is subject to BoP as well. No aero or major modifications from the stock spec. So no wings, dive planes, wide fenders, or engine swaps (looking at the Z4) for the sake of performance. Of course, safety modifications will be necessary as well as BoP measures. No number panels, colored mirrors, or driver ratings. Now that's a 3 class series that's easy on the team's wallet, easy to follow, and easy to steward.

Not a bad idea. I do wonder: wouldn't GTD effectively be the same as CTSC's GS class? Not that I'm necessarily opposed to that.

I can come up with 2 scenarios that I would like:

In a perfect world, I would cut PC and one of the GT's - probably GTD so that the LM link would be maintained. If the BoP can't be figured out - its too early to tell at this point - I would split P back into it's true categories. That would give us either P and GT(LM), or DP, P2, and GT(LM).

The minimalist changes I would make, because I do think GTD has value for it's closer production links in addition to obvious financial savings, would be to keep both GT classes and simply axe PC. I would again split up P if the BoP proves too difficult to get right.

 

[cnd01]

Not a bad idea. I do wonder: wouldn't GTD effectively be the same as CTSC's GS class? Not that I'm necessarily opposed to that.

I can come up with 2 scenarios that I would like:

In a perfect world, I would cut PC and one of the GT's - probably GTD so that the LM link would be maintained. If the BoP can't be figured out - its too early to tell at this point - I would split P back into it's true categories. That would give us either P and GT(LM), or DP, P2, and GT(LM).

The minimalist changes I would make, because I do think GTD has value for it's closer production links in addition to obvious financial savings, would be to keep both GT classes and simply axe PC. I would again split up P if the BoP proves too difficult to get right.

In a perfect world, we would have 2 classes. I'd rather see GTD than GTLM simply because of the variety and volume of it that's there. If I axed GTLM, I would make GTD full GT3 spec. I'd do what I said before with the Prototype classes. It would be DP+ and GT3.

I wouldn't mess with conti. It's the best racing in the universe imo. Lots of variety with packed grids with pretty good BoP. The cars (again imo) all look better than the GTD/GTLM cars. There aren't any huge wings and overzealous aero. They actually look like what you'd see a mustang, camaro, m3, etc. look like on the street

 

[raven214]

In a perfect world, we would have 2 classes. I'd rather see GTD than GTLM simply because of the variety and volume of it that's there. If I axed GTLM, I would make GTD full GT3 spec. I'd do what I said before with the Prototype classes. It would be DP+ and GT3.

I wouldn't mess with conti. It's the best racing in the universe imo. Lots of variety with packed grids with pretty good BoP. The cars (again imo) all look better than the GTD/GTLM cars. There aren't any huge wings and overzealous aero. They actually look like what you'd see a mustang, camaro, m3, etc. look like on the street

I thought GTLM basically was GT3 spec? I agree I love CTSC and don't want to touch it. It just sounded like you wanted to make GTD basically similar to GS (but with increased power I assume), which is fine by me. It would also serve to further differentiate visually from GTLM.

I'm really not trying to be obtuse I promise lol! There are too many classes to keep track... at least for me! I wouldn't have a problem with there being just one GT class in TUSC but I'd like to see it as a GT3 spec or similiar.

Edit: I reread your earlier post and I think I better understand you now. I'm pretty much on board with what you're saying. I do like having the P2's around for variety but I agree that P should be one type. I wouldn't mind seeing more of a difference between the 2 GT classes as long as we're going to have both of them.

 

[IforceV8]

I thought GTLM basically was GT3 spec? I agree I love CTSC and don't want to touch it. It just sounded like you wanted to make GTD basically similar to GS (but with increased power I assume), which is fine by me. It would also serve to further differentiate visually from GTLM.

I'm really not trying to be obtuse I promise lol! There are too many classes to keep track... at least for me! I wouldn't have a problem with there being just one GT class in TUSC but I'd like to see it as a GT3 spec or similiar.

GTLM is GTE pro which is basically GT2 spec.Conti GS cars are closer to GT4 spec.By 2016 a new world spec GT and GT+ class will become the new standard for all major GT series.

 

[joetruckv8]

Will post Youtube tape as soon as it surfaces,.

 

[cnd01]

GTLM is GTE pro which is basically GT2 spec.Conti GS cars are closer to GT4 spec.By 2016 a new world spec GT and GT+ class will become the new standard for all major GT series.

Which hopefully GT+ will be more easily differentiated from GT than GTLM and GTD are at the present. I see it as the manufacturers cashing in which I can't blame them for. Make one car. Sell customer GT class cars. Develop and race the same car for GT+. Sell customers the GT+ car with yesterday's upgrades. Rinse and repeat. Pretty much the Porsche model for GT. Then with each passing season, offer a new kit for both cars. Get the series to make it so that if the new upgrade kits aren't bought, the car is nowhere near competitive

Edit: I reread your earlier post and I think I better understand you now. I'm pretty much on board with what you're saying. I do like having the P2's around for variety but I agree that P should be one type. I wouldn't mind seeing more of a difference between the 2 GT classes as long as we're going to have both of them.

I would go with all P2 if there were 5 DP teams and 15 P2 teams

 

[joetruckv8]

Found This, still searching,..



Better than nothing for the moment,..​

 

[Wilbur]

If it were me calling the shots, there would be hopefully 2 classes 3 max. I would cut GTLM, but that would probably put the series in a bind financially due to the manufacturer presence putting money in the series. So that's pretty much not gonna happen. With a 3 class system, I would've given all 5 LMP1&2 teams from the ALMS a credit for a DP chassis of their choice. That would've removed the BoP headache. That would be the P class. Some minor and cheap upgrades would be all that's necessary. Keep the GTLM class as is for Le Mans link. GTD cars would have the stock body shape. I'd allow the tube frame cars in it like the grand am RX-8 and Camaro in with the others as long as those cars kept an approved engine that is subject to BoP as well. No aero or major modifications from the stock spec. So no wings, dive planes, wide fenders, or engine swaps (looking at the Z4) for the sake of performance. Of course, safety modifications will be necessary as well as BoP measures. No number panels, colored mirrors, or driver ratings. Now that's a 3 class series that's easy on the team's wallet, easy to follow, and easy to steward.

So if you gave a credit to the P1 and P2 teams for what chassis or what are your thoughts on things? I know you are a huge DP fan which I am there with you as to be it is something we grew up watching (as I am behind the times and just know seeing the big links from GTP to DP's, etc). BoP is always an ever changing situation in a new series or one with new teams joining, it's never going to be exactly perfect at every track or through out the season but it's just a work in progress. It seems alot of people are jumping all over that and not giving it some time to work itself out; there are flaws in anything even ALMS and Grand-Am but now we are in a spot light which makes it 10x worse.

As far as getting rid of the LMP cars, I'm not a fan of that...while I am not an open cockpit lover, I do enjoy seeing different styles of cars run and not so much a spec series where you are limited on what you can do as far as "style" of car.

I mean what kind of dollar signs are we talking here?

Honestly if we aren't going to allow aero packages then we are just another feeder series if you ask me, there are enough of those across the world. If we are going to do one GT class, I prefer GTLM period; I want a car that pushes the limits and is a the top of the GT food chain. Same with P2 (P1 I can careless because it doesn't matter outside of certain events and they are on a different set of rules all together) but right now they are trying to find the right balance and gathering input I'm sure through out races and next year will be a better story at some tracks.
Teams that are coming to play at the top level need to understand the cost involved, if you want a spec class or a cheaper series...there are plenty of those around. Maybe I am in the minority but the Z4, 911 RSR and Audi R8 LMS all are some of my favorite looking cars, I'm not a huge fan of the Corvette or Viper.

Now I am completely for getting rid of PC or doing something about that whole class after Sebring as that was a huge mess (some was just driver error while others was bonehead moves). They need to sit down and talk to some of these drivers about being safe after a crash or what to do.

 

[Mac K]

Give this website a few minutes of your time guys, started by the Cisneros brothers (former co-drivers of the late Sean Edwards) from the MOMO NGT team and Dr.Jim Norman, it's a non-profit organization aiming to improve track, driver, car, marshall, and spectator safety.

http://motorsport-safety.org/

 

[aarror]

If it were me calling the shots, there would be hopefully 2 classes 3 max. I would cut GTLM, but that would probably put the series in a bind financially due to the manufacturer presence putting money in the series. So that's pretty much not gonna happen. With a 3 class system, I would've given all 5 LMP1&2 teams from the ALMS a credit for a DP chassis of their choice. That would've removed the BoP headache. That would be the P class. Some minor and cheap upgrades would be all that's necessary. Keep the GTLM class as is for Le Mans link. GTD cars would have the stock body shape. I'd allow the tube frame cars in it like the grand am RX-8 and Camaro in with the others as long as those cars kept an approved engine that is subject to BoP as well. No aero or major modifications from the stock spec. So no wings, dive planes, wide fenders, or engine swaps (looking at the Z4) for the sake of performance. Of course, safety modifications will be necessary as well as BoP measures. No number panels, colored mirrors, or driver ratings. Now that's a 3 class series that's easy on the team's wallet, easy to follow, and easy to steward.

If I were in control and could only have 2 classes, I'd cut P and PC and run just GTLM and GTD. Balancing DPs and P2s equally is damn near impossible, and since neither are cutting edge or particularly exciting they therefore get shown the door. Keep GTLM as is because it has some of the best racing in the world, and gives Manufacturers a place to play. GTD becomes slightly restricted GT3, because of it's popularity worldwide and relatively low cost. No tube frame cars, if you want to race, build a car that belongs on the track (I'm looking at you, Mazda). As you said no engine swaps, so Z4 is out.

If I had to keep a Prototype class, I would talk to Super GT/DTM about joining into their rule set for 2016. That would give prospective teams/manufacturers a chance to either develop or purchase a car and do some testing. In the meantime I would run DPs, simply because more teams had them. They would be sped up enough so that they were comfortably in front of the GTLM cars, in the most cost effective way possible in order to avoid driving up costs before the teams had to purchase a new car for 2016. P2 teams would get a credit for a DP chassis to use in the transitional years.

 

[IforceV8]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/?p=25310

 

[RACECAR]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/?p=25310

Looks like many people (me included I'll admit) might have been far too harsh on the PC class as a whole. Come to think of it, Daytona did not have anywhere near the amount of PC related incidents Sebring did so perhaps the BOP changes are the actual blame for cars going off a lot, though I still maintain whoever the hell decided to do donuts in the middle of the back straight is a moron.

 

[cnd01]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/?p=25310

Pretty fair assessment here.

My assessment of the whole merger so far is that IMSA has done way too much trying to please every team from both series which has ended up pleasing none of the teams from either series.

 

[Organ-Donor]

12hrs of Sebring part 1


Part 2


Part 3

 

[raven214]

Can someone clue me in on approximately when in the race the misidentified 911 issue happened? I want to watch the whole thing over but want to pay special attention to this.

 

[IforceV8]

Part 2 1:51 onboard 22
Part 2 2:21 onboard 912

Christensen was in the 912 at the time but I havent found it yet.

Found it Part 2 3:06:42 912 spins the 49

 

[Organ-Donor]

So they misidentified a GTLM Porsche with clearly identifiable red markings with a GTD Porsche with blue markings.👎. That is inexcusable.

 

[cnd01]

So they misidentified a GTLM Porsche with clearly identifiable red markings with a GTD Porsche with blue markings.👎. That is inexcusable.

If the markings confuse race control, they've gotta be too vague for fans. We need a better system of identification

 

[MrWednesday]

So they misidentified a GTLM Porsche with clearly identifiable red markings with a GTD Porsche with blue markings.👎. That is inexcusable.

There are no red or blue markings on the in-car video, which, according to all reports I've seen, is what race control used to make their call. There is, however, a clearly identifiable Michelin sticker.

 

[Organ-Donor]

There are no red or blue markings on the in-car video, which, according to all reports I've seen, is what race control used to make their call. There is, however, a clearly identifiable Michelin sticker.

And they can't correlate the in car footage with any other outside footage? I find it hard to believe they can only use roof cam footage. If that is the case they need the car # visible to the onboard camera. I didnt notice if any officials/flag personal was in view of it. Simply put this cannot happen, like I said before its inexcusable.

Its as silly as getting a speeding ticket by a cop when you weren't speeding, just because the car speeding next to you was the same color as your car.

 

[raven214]

And they can't correlate the in car footage with any other outside footage? I find it hard to believe they can only use roof cam footage. If that is the case they need the car # visible to the onboard camera. I didnt notice if any officials/flag personal was in view of it. Simply put this cannot happen, like I said before its inexcusable.

Its as silly as getting a speeding ticket by a cop because the car speeding next to you was the same color as your car.

If I'm not mistaken, they are talking about having a car ID on all on-board cams, which I agree is a no brainer - especially if you're handing out penalties based on the footage.

 

[Mac K]

 

[IforceV8]

There are no red or blue markings on the in-car video, which, according to all reports I've seen, is what race control used to make their call. There is, however, a clearly identifiable Michelin sticker.

And a clearly visible "Alex Job Racing WeatherTech" decal on the 22 car.

 

[cnd01]

http://motorsportsmusings.wordpress.com/2014/03/19/corner-marshals-in-the-new-series/