2014 United Sports Car Championship

[Wilbur]

@hawkeye122 I had no idea that people overseas saw the DP as redneck mobiles, quite insulting. Almost seems like ignorance from one fan base to spur on the ignorance of another fan base @cnd01 for example.

If that is the case on outsiders thinking they are redneck, that's just plain silly. Sure they aren't the technology advanced P1/P2 cars they are used to but they aren't that far behind.

 

[Furinkazen]

Much as I dislike DP's, they have come a long way since there inception.

 

[cnd01]

I've heard some rumblings via twitter about an unnamed team that currently isn't in TUSCC working with a manufacturer that's not in TUSCC either. It's not all doom and gloom. I bet Viper is the team that withdraws considering SRT isn't selling any cars. I never saw Viper more than a 3 or 4 year program anyway with the Chrysler financial issues

 

[RACECAR]

So I watched the World Challenge race and to add even further insult to injury, I only saw one Viper GT3-R and did not see ANY in the Blancpain series. So not only are they not selling their street cars well but apart from the sole GTD entry and a sole World Challenge Entry, they aren't selling race cars either. I really hate it for SRT because we finally get not only a New Viper, but we got to see it race again and in only its third year, we're about to see them pull out of racing and more then likely, they're gonna stop selling it.

 

[cnd01]

So I watched the World Challenge race and to add even further insult to injury, I only saw one Viper GT3-R and did not see ANY in the Blancpain series. So not only are they not selling their street cars well but apart from the sole GTD entry and a sole World Challenge Entry, they aren't selling race cars either. I really hate it for SRT because we finally get not only a New Viper, but we got to see it race again and in only its third year, we're about to see them pull out of racing and more then likely, they're gonna stop selling it.

I hate to see it too. I sat in the GT3R Viper at Daytona. Heck of a car. I prefer Viper to Corvette, but I know I'm in the minority just looking at the number of Vipers sold vs Corvettes sold. The Corvette also has a slim European market whereas the Viper is nonexistent overseas by comparison. Maybe this means that SRT will finally start supporting Challengers in Conti which would be awesome!

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I hate to see it too. I sat in the GT3R Viper at Daytona. Heck of a car. I prefer Viper to Corvette, but I know I'm in the minority just looking at the number of Vipers sold vs Corvettes sold. The Corvette also has a slim European market whereas the Viper is nonexistent overseas by comparison. Maybe this means that SRT will finally start supporting Challengers in Conti which would be awesome!

That would cost money...and you already said as have I and others that money in racing is quite limited over at Chrysler for the moment.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I thought Corvettes actually sold good in Europe for an American car, especially now that the C7 looks like it can spit on a Porsche's face and get away with it?

 

[cnd01]

That would cost money...and you already said as have I and others that money in racing is quite limited over at Chrysler for the moment.

It's certainly less to support a few challengers that other teams run than spend the type of $ that it takes to be competitive in GTLM. If I had to speculate, SRT would be pulling out of everything in sports cars if they do decide to cut back at all.

I thought Corvettes actually sold good in Europe for an American car, especially now that the C7 looks like it can spit on a Porsche's face and get away with it?

There's something like 10,000 Corvettes sold a year in the US compared to a few hundred a year in Europe (not exact numbers)
Viper has sold something like 100 units in America in 2014 so far if that many as a comparison

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It's certainly less to support a few challengers that other teams run than spend the type of $ that it takes to be competitive in GTLM. If I had to speculate, SRT would be pulling out of everything in sports cars if they do decide to cut back at all.

In the end trying to support several challengers on the GT3 level is going to be as expensive as their Nationwide support for a couple of teams. If they can't do that which they currently can't then GT3 or GTD (even more limited thus hurting them more in the end) isn't going to happen it's that simple. Also the problem you neglect is trying to convert customers away from the cars of well established groups in the same price range. Trying to convince a team that a GT4 or GT3 Challenger trim car is more beneficial than what has been currently winning for the past few years isn't realistic.

Dodge/Chrysler put all there eggs in one basket (SRT Viper) made two cars of similar performance GTLM and GT3 and tried to convince the international racing world to buy in without having anything proven. Plus 460k vs say 395k for a 911 GT3R...that has proven more this year in TUSC than anyone else...

 

[cnd01]

In the end trying to support several challengers on the GT3 level is going to be as expensive as their Nationwide support for a couple of teams. If they can't do that which they currently can't then GT3 or GTD (even more limited thus hurting them more in the end) isn't going to happen it's that simple. Also the problem you neglect is trying to convert customers away from the cars of well established groups in the same price range. Trying to convince a team that a GT4 or GT3 Challenger trim car is more beneficial than what has been currently winning for the past few years isn't realistic.

Dodge/Chrysler put all there eggs in one basket (SRT Viper) made two cars of similar performance GTLM and GT3 and tried to convince the international racing world to buy in without having anything proven. Plus 460k vs say 395k for a 911 GT3R...that has proven more this year in TUSC than anyone else...

I'm saying support challengers in the Conti Tire sports car challenge. GT3 cost is increasing and would still be very expensive. It would put Camaro vs. Mustang vs. Challenger along with BMW M3, Porsche, Aston Martin, and Nissan 370Z which would increase awesomeness tenfold

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'm saying support challengers in the Conti Tire sports car challenge. GT3 cost is increasing and would still be very expensive. It would put Camaro vs. Mustang vs. Challenger along with BMW M3, Porsche, Aston Martin, and Nissan 370Z which would increase awesomeness tenfold

I'm sure it would, but it's not realistic at the moment as much as we want to see it an that was the point. Let Chrysler solve their issues and maybe we'll see them return. Perhaps they'll be like Peugeot and then start slowly returning to anything motorsports that they've won in the past.

 

[Mac K]

So I watched the World Challenge race and to add even further insult to injury, I only saw one Viper GT3-R and did not see ANY in the Blancpain series. So not only are they not selling their street cars well but apart from the sole GTD entry and a sole World Challenge Entry, they aren't selling race cars either. I really hate it for SRT because we finally get not only a New Viper, but we got to see it race again and in only its third year, we're about to see them pull out of racing and more then likely, they're gonna stop selling it.

I look at it like this, I'm one of two people, a team owner in a GT3 series or your general run of the mill rich dude/gentlemen driver. I'm gonna buy myself a new racing car to run in whatever GT3 series or the GTD class in TUSC to keep this relevant, what's to stop me from choosing an already proven package from Audi, Porsche, Ferrari or BMW? In my mind nothing, unless you're someone like Ben Keating whose livelihood revolves around Vipers, so picking the GT3 version makes sense.. Whatever happened to that car anyway? Did they re-build it or order another?

 

[cnd01]

I'm sure it would, but it's not realistic at the moment as much as we want to see it an that was the point. Let Chrysler solve their issues and maybe we'll see them return. Perhaps they'll be like Peugeot and then start slowly returning to anything motorsports that they've won in the past.

With the current path Chrysler is going on, I do not see Chrysler in sports car racing for a long long time. If it weren't for the US taxpayer, Chrysler wouldn't be in business now. Right now I see Ford being America's best bet long term in sports car racing. Hopefully, Chrysler will get it back together and GM won't nosedive again.

 

[Mirado_7]

I will literally cry if SRT pulls out.

 

[cnd01]

I will literally cry if SRT pulls out.

It's one of those things that the team has absolutely no control over. If they're trying to cut the budget or it's deemed a waste of money to race by the management then bye bye Viper. Same with any factory team in any class in any series.

 

[RACECAR]

I will literally cry if SRT pulls out.

Might as well prepare your tissues then because unless sales suddenly make a drastic rise, its inevitable.

 

[Wilbur]

It's sad to see that SRT might pull out but they have been for awhile even though they keep trying to put their money into a motorsports program. Most folks can't afford the Vipers and there is so little out there really unlike any other sports car like Porsche, Audi, Chevy, Ford that they are behind the 8 ball to begin with.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I will literally cry if SRT pulls out.

I will jar your tears and send them to SRT...wow that was creepier seen out in writing than in my head

 

[hawkeye122]

@hawkeye122 I had no idea that people overseas saw the DP as redneck mobiles, quite insulting. Almost seems like ignorance from one fan base to spur on the ignorance of another fan base @cnd01 for example.

Those aren't my feelings, I was characterizing what I'd seen in other places..

 

[Mac K]

What's everyones feelings towards splitting the classes and having two separate races on the same day?

To get pumped up..

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Those aren't my feelings, I was characterizing what I'd seen in other places..

Did I say anything about them being your feelings? I just found it annoying that people overseas would see it that way and feel it's ignorant just like the people in here that bash P1 without knowing what the hell they're talking about. Both sides being ignorant doesn't help out actual fans with unbiased views that actually understand all the cars.

 

[hawkeye122]

What's everyones feelings towards splitting the classes and having two separate races on the same day?

To get pumped up..

(Super dope race vids)

Honestly? I didn't buy tickets this year because of the split race, there's no way it'll be the same. I was ok with it being cut to a 4 hour event, but this is silly.

Probably required though, the Factory AMR vs Muscle Milk AMR (The one where Dyson pulled in Al-Massud's car to secure the championship early) race a few years ago was plagued by yellows at times... But racing at night at Laguna was cool.

 

[cnd01]

Did I say anything about them being your feelings? I just found it annoying that people overseas would see it that way and feel it's ignorant just like the people in here that bash P1 without knowing what the hell they're talking about. Both sides being ignorant doesn't help out actual fans with unbiased views that actually understand all the cars.

I think you're misunderstanding what I think. I like LMP and DP alike. Above all though, I like nice grids with close competition. Other than Laguna last year, that was nonexistent in the ALMS prototype categories not to mention the prototype grid had been shrinking considerably in the past few years. There's a place for all the technology and factory works efforts which is the WEC imo. That's my stance. I don't hate anything. I prefer the DP in looks, but that's all opinion. I totally get it if other people like other things. I love the variety of the LMP and DP in TUSCC. I welcome all the different DP and LMP2 cars to the series. DP was close, but it is bland. Every car from about 2009 until the merger is some variation of the 5.0L V8. Before the Gen 3 update it was a field of Rileys and WTR and Doran running the Dallara with SoD in the Coyote which looked just like the Riley. LMP2 has a bunch of different engines and chassis, but it's a shrinking class globally at this point. Come 2017 there should be a prototype that fits the bill here and overseas, but I won't put anything past IMSA and the ACO

 

[Müle]

The amount of Tin Hats over at sportscar365 is hilarious.

 

[cnd01]

The amount of Tin Hats over at sportscar365 is hilarious.

Dagys isn't too bad most of the time, but those Yahoos that fill the comments section are the tin foil hat.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I think you're misunderstanding what I think. I like LMP and DP alike. Above all though, I like nice grids with close competition. Other than Laguna last year, that was nonexistent in the ALMS prototype categories not to mention the prototype grid had been shrinking considerably in the past few years. There's a place for all the technology and factory works efforts which is the WEC imo. That's my stance. I don't hate anything. I prefer the DP in looks, but that's all opinion. I totally get it if other people like other things. I love the variety of the LMP and DP in TUSCC. I welcome all the different DP and LMP2 cars to the series. DP was close, but it is bland. Every car from about 2009 until the merger is some variation of the 5.0L V8. Before the Gen 3 update it was a field of Rileys and WTR and Doran running the Dallara with SoD in the Coyote which looked just like the Riley. LMP2 has a bunch of different engines and chassis, but it's a shrinking class globally at this point. Come 2017 there should be a prototype that fits the bill here and overseas, but I won't put anything past IMSA and the ACO

I didn't bring up your name in that post either...

As for the rest LMP grids had been shrinking but there were no interested American groups anymore like (Panoz, Chrysler and Cadillac) and those who were were privateers that didn't have enough to be competitive overseas so less and less joined. Costs in P1 didn't help either as works teams made the effort from outsiders moot. The place for technology is not and should not be limited to WEC, TUSC can also be a place for this rather than just a racing series which anyone could do and is doing. The GTE/GTLM category is where most American companies are pouring in the money to build better road going sports cars rather than overall technology for the entire brand.

Also people think you don't like LMP because of things on this thread that you've said and your stance for DP all the time over anything else. LMP2 isn't a shrinking class globally just in this region of the world, everyone else is still putting forth an effort toward the category as the Le Mans thread shows. Also your disdain for Le Mans is another stand point to why people tend to not believe you and some the drivel you say about Sports Car Racing in general.

 

[RACECAR]

What's everyones feelings towards splitting the classes and having two separate races on the same day?

I kinda got mixed feels. On one hand, it'll be very different but after seeing a surprisingly caution free and Race control mess up-Free race, maybe the separation of the Amateur classes from the Pro classes might give us one good race.

 

[cnd01]

The place for technology is not and should not be limited to WEC, TUSC can also be a place for this rather than just a racing series which anyone could do and is doing.

See your quote here

Costs in P1 didn't help either as works teams made the effort from outsiders moot.

Without factories foaming at the mouth to race, the science fair class becomes an absolute waste of time. It's been shown throughout that having the LMP1 class as the lead class in regional Le Mans series doesn't work while a series that hasn't had any overseas connections in America has shown a better on track product overall than the series in America that does. That's why I'm "anti-Le Mans." I'm sorry if that makes me ignorant or stupid. I think sports car racing has always over complicated itself. Crap, there's like 5 classes in the WEC now. Does everyone need their own trophy lol. The core difference in the line of thought by the ACO and grand am is that grand am has told the factories no and the ACO has decided to try and make a place for all the teams to be happy. That idea has really panned out in TUSCC so far...

My point is: This isn't 1968, 1988, or 2003 anymore. Sports car racing in America hasn't been anything close to a big deal recently, so I don't see why doing the same stuff that hasn't made it a big deal to please the same 0.5% of tin foil hatters on the comments section of SC365 is a good idea. Whatever direction the management decides, they need to commit. I'm for whatever grows the sport without killing it in the long run

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

See your quote here

Yeah I say that and then establish how they are doing the experiment in GTLM rather than P1

Without factories foaming at the mouth to race, the science fair class becomes an absolute waste of time.

No it's not. Go ask Williams and Zytek how they brought innovative technology to road cars and sport car racing without being a manufacture. Nice try though.

It's been shown throughout that having the LMP1 class as the lead class in regional Le Mans series doesn't work while a series that hasn't had any overseas connections in America has shown a better on track product overall than the series in America that does. That's why I'm "anti-Le Mans." I'm sorry if that makes me ignorant or stupid. I think sports car racing has always over complicated itself. Crap, there's like 5 classes in the WEC now. Does everyone need their own trophy lol. The core difference in the line of thought by the ACO and grand am is that grand am has told the factories no and the ACO has decided to try and make a place for all the teams to be happy. That idea has really panned out in TUSCC so far...

Yeah well developing technology that will then be used in road going cars of all different classes tends to be complicated, so yeah I'd say it's an ignorant and whimsical notion to think otherwise. Then you say 5 classes in WEC...so what there are 4 in TUSC 1 of which serves no purpose to better the automotive world but rather give guys with money a chance to race in a big time series that they would otherwise have no chance at, while trying to mimic P2. ACO hasn't tried to make a place for all to be happy, try telling that to P1 works teams that have raced against Audi and believe the ACO is helping them out more than everyone out.

Also what do you mean "does everyone need their own trophy"?

My point is: This isn't 1968, 1988, or 2003 anymore. Sports car racing in America hasn't been anything close to a big deal recently, so I don't see why doing the same stuff that hasn't made it a big deal to please the same 0.5% of tin foil hatters on the comments section of SC365 is a good idea. Whatever direction the management decides, they need to commit. I'm for whatever grows the sport without killing it in the long run

What do those years have to do with anything 68 I can see but what about 1988 and 2003?

Who said anything about appeasing those so called "tin foil hats"? And how is it not okay to hear them out but it's okay to hear out the Nationalist U.S. fans that really can't be bothered to understand technology? <- A question you've been asked before and didn't answer.

 

[Müle]

Dagys isn't too bad most of the time, but those Yahoos that fill the comments section are the tin foil hat.

That's what I meant.