2017 Formula 1 United States Grand PrixFormula 1

[Pezzarinho17]

If the stewards had allowed the Verstappen pass to stand, they would be on very shaky ground going forward. I think a lot of people want it to be a legal pass because it was so impressive and so late in the race. It was impressive because you wouldn't expect a pass here without either crashing or ending up off the circuit... Kimi left just enough room on the inside for Max to have a left wheel on the circuit, but Verstappen opted to "move the goalposts" in his favour and to allow himself a bigger margin for error than was allowed. As said above, without the inside kerb being completely flat tarmac, this option wouldn't have been open to him in the first place either.

For some perspective, just have a look at this move at Hungary in 2013. Massa leaves less room for Grosjean, than Raikkonen left for Verstappen. Grosjean is off circuit by a far smaller margin than Verstappen was. Verstappen had 5 seconds added to his race time, whilst Grosjean had to serve a drive through penalty.

 

[BrainsBush]

Happy birthday Zanardi (Oct 23 - 66)

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

4 wheels where on the inside of the ripple strip even, its way too much of a cut to allow in any circumstance.

But it happens all the time!?

And as I pointed out in my previous post there's a white line on the outside of the curb, it's at least for me as a viewer extremely misleading - and I suppose for the drivers too, why is it sometimes allowed and sometimes not...? Do away with the white line on the outside and we're in the clear! 👍

 

[Tired Tyres]

All this controversy is doing is highlighting some bad circuit design. Tarmac runoff on the outside of corners is sadly necessary, and just needs to be sorted with harsh Kerbs like they had at Copse this year. As soon as the drivers hit those ones they decided to not hit them again. What is ridiculous is having tarmac runoff on the inside. The red painted area should be grass. If it was grass, Max would not have cut the corner as it would have ended in a massive accident. Turn 8 at Istanbul has grass on the inside, and you wouldn't get someone trying it there. Except on the exit of chicanes, grass should go to the edge of the kerbs where possible. There is no safety benefit for it anywhere else.

Reported for posting sensible things.

 

[TenEightyOne]

And as I pointed out in my previous post there's a white line on the outside of the curb, it's at least for me as a viewer extremely misleading

You find the white line that alwys (always, mind) marks the edge of the track misleading?

and I suppose for the drivers too

Vanishingly unlikely.

why is it sometimes allowed and sometimes not...?

You aren't allowed to make an advantage in departure, that's how the rule has always been applied. As @Jimlaad43 pointed out the CoTA track has a particularly bad design, espcially in those flip-flaps.

Do away with the white line on the outside and we're in the clear! 👍

Pffft.

 

[mustafur]

Since when does the white line go off the tarmac surface, it's pretty basic racing knowledge that the white line that counts on any track is on the inside of any Ripple strip and actually has to be on the track surface.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Since when does the white line go off the tarmac surface, it's pretty basic racing knowledge that the white line that counts on any track is on the inside of any Ripple strip and actually has to be on the track surface.

If you're referring to my post then I hadn't realised he might be talking about a white line on the far side of the kerbs. Being confused by that line would be, in my opinion, absurd.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

What, the white line closer to the barrier than it is the racing circuit?... Yes, absurd!

 

[BrainsBush]

I just did a race in the red Viper and I'm glad the FIA did not watch it. Now I ended on the podium without penalties.
Luckily the digital FIA is not that harsh

 

[sunshine2002]

What, the white line closer to the barrier than it is the racing circuit?... Yes, absurd!

WOW! That's a really wide track, if Max is driving on a track.
I'm glad Max got a penalty.

 

[mustafur]

But it happens all the time!?

And as I pointed out in my previous post there's a white line on the outside of the curb, it's at least for me as a viewer extremely misleading - and I suppose for the drivers too, why is it sometimes allowed and sometimes not...? Do away with the white line on the outside and we're in the clear! 👍

Yes and usually they tell the drivers to redress, but this was the last lap so Max got a penalty.

 

[BrainsBush]

I just did a race in the red Viper and I'm glad the FIA did not watch it. Now I ended on the podium without penalties.
Luckily the digital FIA is not that harsh

View attachment 682957

PS Also in the real race world itself still unbelieve. E.g. Rosberg has his opinion. But like many others he is just a fanboy of Max
Nico Rosberg‏Geverifieerd account @nico_rosberg
Verstappen passing RAI was awesome! He cut the corner because RAI was turning into him and it looked like RAI would cause a crash #nopenalty

 

[Jimlaad43]

I'm glad Max got a penalty.

So am I, he cut the corner and therefore cheated, ergo deserved a penalty.

 

[baldgye]

PS Also in the real race world itself still unbelieve. E.g. Rosberg has his opinion. But like many others he is just a fanboy of Max
Nico Rosberg‏Geverifieerd account @nico_rosberg
Verstappen passing RAI was awesome! He cut the corner because RAI was turning into him and it looked like RAI would cause a crash #nopenalty

Are you alright mate?

 

[BrainsBush]

Are you alright mate?

Please explain? And actually I am at home with a flue. So to answer your personal question: No not feeling really alright today.

 

[baldgye]

Please explain? And actually I am at home with a flue. So to answer your personal question: No not feeling really alright today.

I mean, you just seem to be posting silly things trying to justify that Max's penalty was unjust, which achieve nothing really...

The screenshot of you corner cutting is suppose to prove what? Two wrongs make a right?
And all the support for Max is good and all, but the only actual decision that matters is the FIA's and the Stewards. The ref's decision is final and all that (like how Vettel got a slap on the wrist and a stop go for driving into Lewis's car during a race to vent his anger and accusing him of break-checking him) and it doesn't matter who else track extended, no one else in the Gran Prix cut a corner in order to gain a position.

But it sucks you have the flu, I'm also a bit flu'd up and its the worst

 

[TheCracker]

I think having committed himself to the move, Verstappen had little choice but to take to the inside of the corner as Kimi came back across to shut the door (as expected.) At that stage he couldn't have backed out, it was pass on the inside or collide. It was however an illegal place to pass so he should have given the place back or at least expect a penalty.

It's tough because it was a great bit of driving, but rules are rules.

 

[Dotini]

Max has been one of the more sensational drivers on the F1 scene in several years. Yes, he is brash and pushes the envelope, but that's okay. Next year is going to be one to savor. With Lewis and Seb at their prime, Fernando finally in a decent ride, and Verstappen and Sainz beginning to dazzle, 2018 could be the most competitive since Mansell, Senna, Prost and Piquet were duking it out in the 80's.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Lewis and Seb...Fernando...Verstappen...Sainz...2018 could be the most competitive...

Three of those drivers will be switching to Honda from Renault, Renault from Honda, or remaining with Renault. Those engines have been woefully unreliable all this season. Only yesterday we saw Verstappen and Sainz lose their teammates from the race through engine failure, and Fernando himself. That needs to be fixed before we can count on competition actually really happening next year.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

You could argue that Ferrari have lost out on the Championship through unreliability too, though not to the same extent.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Ferrari is quick to start but can't always keep up over the year. Red Bull is the opposite in that they spend extra time developing the car and being the last to show it off so they start off slow but over the year it all comes together and you are seeing that now. Merc is just steaming along tried and true to. German engineering without fail. Might be nice to see some other German teams then to bring the reliability battle to the front.

 

[baldgye]

You could argue that Ferrari have lost out on the Championship through unreliability too, though not to the same extent.

To an extent, but for my money, Vettel threw away two wins; Baku and Singapore in a year that is so close in terms of performance of the car, you can't really do that.
Not only that but at Spa, for example, the Ferrari was faster and Vettel sat on Lewis's gearbox for pretty much the whole race while they both cruised away from the rest of the field.

Since the summer break Lewis has stepped up his performance, I don't think Vettel has been able to do the same.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Merc is just steaming along tried and true to. German engineering without fail. Might be nice to see some other German teams then to bring the reliability battle to the front.

Apart from the fact that it's built in Britain by mostly British engineers... German cars are amongst the most unreliable you can buy.

If you want to translate that to F1 (which doesn't work, but it was your idea ) then you could look at Mercedes in 2016 and the seemingly-endless problems with Hamilton's car.

 

[mustafur]

Japanese on the other hand make reliable road cars, but don't mention racing.

 

[XoravaX]

Yep, it was a fair penalty to just swap positions back. Imagine a few years ago where they would have given a drive through penalty if 25 seconds. Think Hamilton At Spa 2008

I instantly thought of Spa 2008 - that decision would have stripped Hamilton off the title had he not done that last corner overtake in Brazil, or if Kimi had finished the race second. The results, with Räikkönen not crashing chasing to regain the first place and finishing first, Hamilton finishing second and Massa third would have given the title to Hamilton a lot easier already, without the last corner effort. Though, thanks to the decision we got probably the most memorable final GP and finish of the season of modern F1.

So I think it was quite fair, even if Verstappen didn't do it with thorough intent. I suppose Hamilton didn't miss braking in the last chicane of Spa either with thorough intent of using it to gain speed for the main straight to pass Räikkönen at the end of it, and he got that 25-second penalty which dropped him to third place.

 

[Fryto]

 

[Betty blue]

I guess a lot is are missing the point in Max's penalty. There's a fine difference between..
A: Running of the track.
B: Running of the track and gaining an advantage.
Especially in a high profile positions where it cannot be tolerated.

 

[Dotini]

"It wasn't Max's fault, the problem was the track!" They left a big open jar of candy at the exit, and he merely grabbed a handful when he left the store.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

So people didn't notice that Hamilton didn't take the knee on the podium, apparently he was told not to....

 

[TenEightyOne]

So people didn't notice that Hamilton didn't take the knee on the podium, apparently he was told not to....

People did indeed notice, including in this thread. However, the US national anthem was played before the race, not on the podium. Taking one knee for God Save the King has a different symbolism that would have been pointless and out of place on the podium.