Car & Tune Reviews (Backtesting favorite tunes on 1.04)

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by pipntick, Dec 15, 2013.

  1. pipntick

    pipntick

    Messages:
    451
    This is my tune test log. I only drive the Nordschleife and do about 20 laps for each review. Focus on full tunes (those where drivetrain/gearbox/suspension/power/body/stats are provided).

    Inactive links are tests planned but not completed.
    .
    Favorite cars:
    Audi R8 LMS Ultra:
    Stock | Praiano | Ridox
    Audi TT-R Touring Car: Stock | Blueshift
    Ferrari FXX: Stock | Dante | HighOctane | Praiano | Yorkshire | Xande
    Ford GT LM SpecII Test Car: Stock | Praiano
    KTM X-BOW Street: Stock | Chunkee_Monkey v1/v2 | Clueless/Outlaws | HighOctane | Yorkshire
    Lamborghini Diablo GT2: Praiano
    Lexus LFA: Stock | ToLegit
    Lexus LFA Nurburgring: Stock | AVRG | Fatal | HighOctane | Praiano | ThorinCain
    Pagani Zonda R: Stock | Aardvark | Blueshift

    Other:
    Audi Quattro:
    Stock | Clueless/Outlaws
    Audi TTS Coupe: COTHO
    BMW M3 CSL: Stock | Praiano v1/v2/comparison
    Ferrari Dino 246 GT: Stock | Praiano | Xande
    Ford RS200: Stock | Clueless/Outlaws
    Mazda RX-7 Bathurst R: Stock | Clueless/Outlaw
    Nissan 180SX Type X: COTHO
    Nissan Skyline GT-R (R32) '89: Stock | Ridox
    Nissan Skyline GT-R V-Spec (R33): Ridox
    Peugeot RCZ: Stock | JohnnyPenso
    RUF CTR2: JLG_Metrix
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To do:
    Zonda R by Aardvark Mazda 787B stock Mazda 787B by Praiano Mazda 787B by Dante Mazda 787B by gosthrider135 Ford GT LM SpecII stock Ford GT LM SpecII by Praiano Chaparral 2J stock Chaparral 2J by Praiano
    Reference links:
    GT6 physics RevEng thread Spring rate formula MR,LSD & handling Racing setup (Wikipedia) Blueshift's secrets XS directory
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2014
  2. pipntick

    pipntick

    Messages:
    451
    Ferrari FXX - Stock
    Had been waiting for this car to show up in GT for a long time. Right away, noticed a big difference in handling vs the Enzo, but it could well be that I am still getting used to the new physics. This version is much more responsive and the turning radius is less than that of the Moon (as in the Enzo).

    The car is very fast, and still suffers from lack of downforce. Car takes off easily in Quiddelbacher Hohe, and I even managed a cool rollover at Fuchsrohre.

    One must be careful when braking, the slightest mistake in line or move can send the car spinning. There is a lot of power, and you will hear the tyres all the time. Brake and throttle control are critical, but when is done right is very rewarding. Top speed at Antoniusbuche was 369kph/229mph.

    This is a fun car to drive, nothing can be taken for granted with it. I look forward to the many tunes I know it will have.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
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  3. pipntick

    pipntick

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    451
    Ferrari FXX - Praiano (click on title for source)
    What a difference. The weaknesses of the car are still there but this tune makes it so much more forgiving. Braking is no longer an art form and there is so much more grip that I found myself coming out of many corners a full gear down than the stock version, ready to floor the throttle. I even enjoyed a lot of sideways action, and felt under control.

    Metzgesfeld was still difficult to hold at decent speed, and responsiveness at low speed is still a bit of an issue. I felt this tune promoted a bit more oversteer than stock, but it could be that it was easy to be more aggressive when cornering. Top speed at Antoniusbuche was 372kph/231mph.

    Nonetheless, a great tune, massive improvement over stock. If this car would only have more downforce, it would be hard to find many cars that are more enjoyable to drive at high speeds.

     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
    Geopan973, lilivier and praiano63 like this.
  4. pipntick

    pipntick

    Messages:
    451
    BMW M3 CSL - Stock
    This is a great car in stock form. I slapped a set of Sport Softs for the first couple of laps and even that is too much grip.

    It's biggest flaw is the transmission,the gears are too far apart. This is most noticeable from Karousel to Dottinger Hohe. There is also a bit of understeer at the end of the turn, and a hint of body roll that I didn't mind and rather enjoyed. Top speed was 272kph/169mph.

    Unfortunately, the car is not eligible for aero upgrades, but the selection on wheels is good. This is an excellent base model and good tunes should preserve its qualities.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  5. pipntick

    pipntick

    Messages:
    451
    BMW M3 CSL Version 1 - Praiano (click on title for source)
    Praiano's tune adds about 100hp to this car and reduces weight by 135kg, resulting in an increase of 25pp from the base model.

    The transmission is greatly improved with the selected ratios (had some trouble setting it up per spec). The suspension is also better, able to hold far more lateral acceleration than the stock form, but still retaining some roll. There is some understeering at the end of the turn left , despite the fact that the center of gravity is further back.

    Car topped at 313kph/194mph. This is a tune that allows consistent, repetitive performance, without sacrificing the essence of the car.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
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  6. pipntick

    pipntick

    Messages:
    451
    Peugeot RCZ - Stock
    Very nice looking car. Starting at just over 400pp, is meant to be driven on comfort tyres. I did 2 laps on Sport Soft and the car was glued to the road.

    At this performance level, there is enough time to pick and test different driving lines and experiment, which made the test very enjoyable. Body roll is about as much as is reasonable, braking is relatively solid, and steering is true.... maybe the lightest hint of understeer in sharper corners.

    Standard gearbox is limiting, this car would definitely benefit from an upgrade here. Suspension and body felt like could take significantly more lateral acceleration, a sign of fertile ground for higher pp tunes. Top speed was 235kph/146mph.

    All in all, a good, enjoyable ride... would love to be able to go much faster in this car.

    Great selection of aero and wheel upgrades available, unfortunately when it comes to wheels you only have the option to go 1" high. I think RCZ would look amazing with even bigger rims.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  7. pipntick

    pipntick

    Messages:
    451
    Peugeot RCZ - Johnny Penso (click on title for source)
    Johnny's tune adds 73HP and 200kgs to the stock version, for a total gain of 28pp. The upgrade in power and transmission definitely improves the overall experience and of course lap times. It is easier to stay in the power band through Hedwigshohe and Wippermann, albeit with a lot of shifting (which is not the tuner's problem).

    There is understeer at low speed/gears, which forced me to slow down below stock in places like Breidscheid, Bergwerk and Hohenrain. This is a bit surprising given the significant shift in weight distribution towards the rear this tune provides, leading me to believe this would have to be fixed with adjustments to the suspension.

    Hard braking applications are trickier now as well. For instance, Fuchsrohre and Breidscheid need to be approached slower, otherwise the car will tend to wonder towards the left the harder you brake. Top speed was 269kph/167mph.

    This is a good starting point. I sincerely hope Johnny is able/willing to adjust handling and braking a bit more so that we can have another viable option in the FF space.

     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
    lilivier likes this.
  8. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    28,465
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    Thanks for the link to this section @pipntick Great work you are doing for the Tuning Community here. :tup::tup:
     
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  9. XS

    XS Premium

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    2,037
    Location:
    United States
    Amazing! What a good contribution to the community. As was already discussed in another thread.... not all tunes fit all drivers, but this is a great start to analyzing which tuners fit which type of drivers. For instance I love all the tunes posted here, but modify them slightly for my driving style. I throttle back Motor City Tunes a hair for corner entry and exit, and use slightly more aggressive differential settings for Praiano's tunes. Having a reviewer will help people dial in their preferences.
     
  10. aj thecaveman

    aj thecaveman

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    39
    Location:
    United States
    Great thread. Looking forward to more reviews. :cheers:
     
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  11. pipntick

    pipntick

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    451
    Thank you all for your kind comments! :)

    @XS, I am using your directory to find/pick tunes. Thank you very much for your effort.
     
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  12. pipntick

    pipntick

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    451
    BMW M3 CSL - Praiano Version 2 (click on title for source)
    @praiano63 new version of his BMW M3 CSL is a must for all BMW fans. While version 1 was a grippy, safe and dependable machine, this iteration is a race car in disguise, and must be treated as such.

    This lighter (by 30kg) and slightly less powerful (7hp) version still clocks 550pp, but is so alive that at one point I was tempted to slap racing tyres, and I am glad I didn't. During a couple of test laps, the Sport Softs stayed red from Hedwigshohe to Pflatzgarten, and it was fun.

    This tune takes the car to the limit of lateral acceleration. Long and fast turns can be held with the eventual downshift when grip starts running out. Oversteer can be caused on demand, and any sense of understeer is likely because you are going too fast. Top speed was 322kmh/200mph.

    There is nothing I can suggest to improve here, although my laps will never be consistent with this car as its qualities invite you to explore every possible line, which more often than not results in a quick visit to the barrier :lol:

     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
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  13. pipntick

    pipntick

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    451
    Praiano's BWM M3 CSL - Case study

    As reviewed above @praiano63 recently posted a new version of his BMW M3 CSL. There is a big difference in the handling of both vehicles. Version 1 is a dependable, almost on rails car with a hint of understeer. Version 2 handles like an MR race car, with very controllable oversteer and the ability to break the tail end easily for sideways action.

    How can the same car have these 2 personalities? Praiano very generously has allowed me to post a side by side of both tunes. You will immediately notice that the biggest difference is in the suspension, with some additional adjustments in LSD and weight distribution.

    I post this to illustrate the value of a good tune in developing the car that fits a driving style best, and to invite those that know of this to comment on the differences. Hope this helps tuners in training as well.

    *Transmission settings are same in both versions, visit Praiano's garage for details.
    Capture.JPG
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
  14. pipntick

    pipntick

    Messages:
    451
    Lexus LFA Nurburgring - Stock
    The LFA was a favorite in GT5, and the addition of the Nurburgring Package in GT6 is a great thing. Not only this car is fast in stock form, is also beautiful to look at.

    On the track, the car is balanced as it can be. The Sport Softs are glued to the road no matter what, lines are held at high speed, braking is solid even if some steering is applied. The tail is always under control, and steering is sharp, responsive and true.

    Transmission settings are what they need to be. This is the first car where I kept willingly trying harder and harder tyre compounds, just to se how far it would go and keep its endless grip. Top speed was 325kph/202kph.

    In GT5, whenever I had somebody coming over to play that had never tried GT before, I always suggested the M3 as a good solid car to play in arcade that would be fun, feel fast and avoid frustration. I feel the same way with this LFA, as a novice you can be relatively consistent. As a more advanced driver, you can go for precision driving and laps after laps of rewarding performance.

    EDIT: Ran this test in 1.01, when tried again in 1.02 the car did not behave as above. Doing further testing to determine if I made an error or the physics changed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2014
  15. PAKFA

    PAKFA

    Messages:
    76
    Hi pipntick, I also drive only on the Nordschleife and if you'd like I can post some lap times and tune set-ups maybe too. I use both pad and a DFGT wheel, depending on my mood and I have comparison times between them with the same car.

    For example, I used Praiano's BMW M3 CSL v2 Tune and I've improved it (to my liking) and got a 6:28.206 time on Nordschleife (Arcade>Time Trial).

    So let me know if you're interested and if you want me to share more info.
     
  16. pipntick

    pipntick

    Messages:
    451
    Hi there! Yes please share your CSL tune, would love to test it. Will you be opening your own garage here in the forum?
     
  17. pipntick

    pipntick

    Messages:
    451
    Lexus LFA Nurburgring - Acan
    This must be a difficult car to tune, given how good it comes stock. Acan's version delivers a car that is loose and has oversteer. This is not a bad thing the way is implemented, as it makes for a fun ride.

    After a couple of laps gaining confidence, I enjoyed turning early and hard, let the car slide in a perfect sideways motion until aligned with the road, and then push hard on the gas. Unlike the stock form however, I would not consider using Comfort tyres.

    As much as this was entertaining, it turned out to be slower. This is partly because the car can hold less lateral acceleration and thus certain turns need to be taken slower, and partly because of the transmission settings, which are great for cornering but limiting in the fast straights.

    In addition, braking is a bit trickier now, with the car more sensitive to steering during hard braking. Top speed was 315kph/196mph, again limited by the transmission. I left last gear at it's highest setting, so there was little left to correct this without changing Acan's idea.

    In summary, a few adjustments in transmission and braking could turn this good tune into a very exciting one.

     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
    Acan likes this.
  18. Acan

    Acan

    Messages:
    229
    Location:
    Brunei
    Thank you for the review pipntick, much appreciated. i was trying the best as i can to make the rear more planted and drive-able for everyone. I will re-tune and make changes where it needs to be (depending on reviews and testing), from time to time.
     
  19. PAKFA

    PAKFA

    Messages:
    76
    I have not decided yet if I want to open my own garage, because I'm still testing and learning a lot of things and differences from GT5 to 6 and from pad to wheel.

    My biggest problem is that I'm still a newbie with the wheel. There is also the problem of NO assists and ALL assists for me. With all assists ON (or sometimes only TC OFF) with pad and wheel the same I get very fast lap time, but without assists I can't finish a lap even or I'm very slow if I do.

    So with that being said, I'll share my CSL tune which like I said before is a modified version of Praiano's CSL tune v.2.

    M3 CSL 557pp

    RS tyres - stock rims

    Suspension - Custom

    90 / 90
    5.00 / 6.80
    3 / 4
    3 / 4
    6 / 6

    Camber 1 / 0
    Toe -0.08 / 0.10

    Brakes - Racing 2 /0

    Transmission - Custom - Max Speed set to 370 km/h
    (*this can be improved with manual tweaking, but I hate the way the transmission menu works in GT6, so I didn't go any further into tweaking it)
    Top speed at Antoniusbuche - 333 km/h

    LSD - Custom - 7 /12 /18
    Twin-Plate Clutch
    Carbon Propeller

    Power
    Limiter 100%
    Tuning Stage 3
    Sports Computer
    Racing Exhaust
    Isometric Exhaust Manifold
    Catalytic Converter Sports
    Intake Tuning
    no NOS

    Body
    Ballast Weight 42 kg
    Ballast Position 50%
    Weight Reduction Stage 3
    Carbon Bonnet
    Windows Wight Reduction

    With this tune and using only these settings: all assists ON except TC OFF and AT transmission, on pad, I got 6:28.706 on the Nordschleife. With the same settings, but with wheel (DFGT) I get the same result.
    If I try NO assists I'm either off the track and DNF or I get very slow times, like 10 seconds or more slower.

    I'm interested in finding 3 things about the M3 CSL, with this tune or any other tune for that matter:

    1. How fast are people with pad.
    2. How fast are people with a wheel, and what wheel they use.
    3. What assists they use with pad and wheel.

    By the way pipntick what do you use, pad or wheel?
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
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  20. pipntick

    pipntick

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    451
    For my reviews I use both, a progression of Sport Soft to Sport Hard (unless the tune indicates need for racing tyres), and no aids whatsoever.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  21. pipntick

    pipntick

    Messages:
    451
    Ferrari FXX - Dante (click on title for source)
    Very interesting tune. What @lldantell has done here is give us a viable version of a completely upgraded FXX (over 1130hp after oil change). He achieves this in part with an interesting transmission and an even weight distribution.

    First impression was that of understeer. After a few laps I found that this car should be driven the same way an LMP is, with great results. Some understeer is left at low speeds (which in this car is anything under 120kph).

    The suspension will surprise you when cornering at speed. At first you will think that the car won't hold the line, but half the way through the corner grip comes out of nowhere and the line is held. Braking was a pleasant surprise, as the car happily took some input under hard braking without becoming too unstable.

    Top speed achieved was 415kph/258mph. However, this is due to lack of runway, the car still had more to give so a test in Route X may be a good idea.

     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
  22. PAKFA

    PAKFA

    Messages:
    76
    So both pad and wheel and no aids on both, ok.

    I'm waiting for some lap times from you with the CSL with my tune and your tunes as well.

    Also, what brand of wheel do you have?

    P.S. Don't forget to use RS tyres for this test.
     
  23. jtqmopar

    jtqmopar

    Messages:
    1,196
    I don't want to put you down, but a 557PP tune shouldn't need to rely on racing tires at all to stick to the line. If you could get decent results on SH tires, then tweak for SM, you'd be golden. SS is really even pushing it for this power level. I do understand SS at the Nurb, though.
     
  24. PAKFA

    PAKFA

    Messages:
    76
    You're not putting me down, not even a bit, because I'm interested in the best lap times for all my cars. So as long as I'm fastest with RS tires, it's all I care. I tried different tire compounds and none come close to the performance of the RS ones. So why should I gimp myself?

    I'm not a purist to dive the cars only stock or only with stock tires, like some people like to do, although I can understand their POV too.
     
  25. pipntick

    pipntick

    Messages:
    451
    Thank you very much for your tune. I will give it a shot in a couple of days once I complete a few reviews on my list. I will give it a couple of laps on RS as you ask, but I will most likely spend most of the time in SM which is what I use for this level of power.

    Note that my times will probably be of no help, as I am not a good driver nor am trying to better my time. Because I test what cars can and can't do, I get a lot of disqualified laps. Therefore, I don't keep track of times tune by tune. I can tell you that the best time I have for the CSL is in the high 6:40s, but I don't have noted which tune was used. All I know is that it was with SS or worse.

    Agree, I usually go CS for less than 450pp, SH for 450-500, SM for 500-550, SS for 550-600. Then I try one up and one down to see how it works. If comfortable, I will try 2 down just to test something specific.
     
  26. jtqmopar

    jtqmopar

    Messages:
    1,196
    @PAKFA Good deal! I used to do the same thing, and then I started in the FITT events. That's a good way to learn different driving tecniques and practice with low compound tires. If you want a nice car to drive, try the Ferrari 250 GTO CN.3729GT '62 it's around 500PP (I think) and has comfort soft tires, but handles amazingly well. It is expensive, but will give great feedback. Now I've got a full-blown (with helium, that's why I sound so funny!) tuning garage.

    edit: I've also got a 500PP Lotus Elise '11 that someone could test if they like. I'll have to PM the tune after adjusting the gears for the Nurb, but it is amazingly forgiving and asks to be pushed harder around every turn. If you view it in photomode it also looks eager to race with its body kit, painted roof, and large race wing!
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  27. PAKFA

    PAKFA

    Messages:
    76
    Understood and you're welcome.

    Also, if you have suggestions for improvement to my tune or you find a better one for CSL please share it, I will be interested about that.
     
  28. praiano63

    praiano63 Premium

    Messages:
    8,851
    Location:
    Brazil
    Nice, thanks for this, it's a very good way to compare both tunes,mostly because PD take out the tuning sheet resume on the setting panels like it was in GT5.
    Good job.
     
  29. pipntick

    pipntick

    Messages:
    451
    R8 LMS Ultra - Stock
    The R8 LMS Playstation was one of my favorites in GT5 and my grinding car for the DTM seasonal, so I was excited to see enough tunes out to start running tests.

    I am using the Team Phoenix version. This car has a lot of oversteer, finesse in steering and pedal input are critical to avoid losing control. Cornering requires a lot of attention, and one must avoid increasing power too early under risk of spinning the car. Braking was acceptable.

    The gearbox can see improvement for the Nordschleife, staying in the power band after Karousell took more work than usual. The setup is also limiting, topping at 289kph/180mph.

    This test was underwhelming, I never felt I could push the limits of the car giving how easy was to lose control and how impossible it was to regain it. However, I think this car has a lot of potential and look forward to testing the many tunes.
     
  30. pipntick

    pipntick

    Messages:
    451
    Audi R8 LMS Ultra - Praiano (click on title for source)
    @praiano63 version of this car is certainly an improvement over the stock form, especially when it comes to gearbox and suspension. He has used every setting in the game (except for weight distribution) in an attempt to tame the exaggerated oversteer.

    However, this car remains a challenge to me. Throttle control is not enough, in my case absolute restrain is needed especially from Hohe Acht to Pflazgarten. In Ex-Muhle, I hit the barrier almost every time on exit, even though it felt I waited a decade before touching the gas. I even managed to spin the car at Karousell a couple of times. It is so easy to cook the tires, and once stability is lost the car feels on ice no matter how much one slows down.

    This tune definitely improved lap times, and top speed achieved was 289kph/180mph (same as stock).

    I admit that I had to break the test into several sessions due to frustration, which was also true when tested stock. I wanted to do a review of every tune for this car, but I need some time before I try again.

     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2014
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