Current state of physics vs Forza 7. Which feels better?

-Speed sensation seems way too fast in Forza. Unless you're driving by looking through the front camera video system, which then, it's very accurate. GTS appears to have speed sensation spot on. When we watch our pursuit videos, we are always like, how fast were you driving here.. like 150mph? In reality it may be 100mph. Videos do that.

-I started watching cockpit cam videos of Forza and GTS to the point of excess, with the goal of seeing which one I got tired of first. It didn't take very long to become bored watching Forza. It seems as though every car handled similarly, and driver's actions were monotonous.
The biggest issue here is the FOV they have, ideally FOV should be adjustable and set to the correct value based on your screen size and distance from the screen.

This video explains how much of a difference it makes and which titles allow you to adjust it.

 
I've had GT Sports since posting here and very pleased with the overall feel of the physics. They respond naturally and predictably, as a real car would. What a fine driving game.

Since when I've had chance to drive Forza 7 and I'm not sure how there is even a comparison between the two. Forza simply put, feels wrong in almost every respect. Like I said before, I'm not a gamer, but I can see Forza feels very "gamey".

I've also taken advantage of the PS Now trial and wanted to try Project Cars 2. I'll have to say that it certainly has some very great points and cars respond quite well, maybe with some added physics that GTS lacks... However some things are entirely overdone. The tendency of cars to burn out, and the amount of inertia from a spin is overdone as well.

Like I said, I've been driving around aggressively in the real world for a long time, with several variants of souped up cruisers, and they simply do not launch into a spin like PC2 does. Sometimes, even with the older overpowered, light rear ended cruisers, you'd find yourself STARTING into a spin, but not to the effect I see in PC2.

Anyway, maybe I should save the PC2 talk for a different time, but just wanted to convey my pleasure with GTS. Feels very very good.
And what setup did you have loaded for the cars in Pc2.

I'm hazarding a guess at the default loose, swith it to stable (or for road cars OEM) and you will find quite a difference.

In my view and experience GTS is a generation behind Pc2 and AC in terms of physics.
 
I recommend GTS. There’s a reason it’s the leader.

This is a strange point to make, because a) Forza and GT only indirectly compete with each other to begin with, and b) the PS4 has, by most estimates, at least twice the installed base the Xbox One has, which obviously affects the size of the pool of potential buyers.
 
This is a strange point to make, because a) Forza and GT only indirectly compete with each other to begin with, and b) the PS4 has, by most estimates, at least twice the installed base the Xbox One has, which obviously affects the size of the pool of potential buyers.

Forza is available on PC as well, which narrows that gap.
 
I've had GT Sports since posting here and very pleased with the overall feel of the physics. They respond naturally and predictably, as a real car would. What a fine driving game.

Since when I've had chance to drive Forza 7 and I'm not sure how there is even a comparison between the two. Forza simply put, feels wrong in almost every respect. Like I said before, I'm not a gamer, but I can see Forza feels very "gamey".

I've also taken advantage of the PS Now trial and wanted to try Project Cars 2. I'll have to say that it certainly has some very great points and cars respond quite well, maybe with some added physics that GTS lacks... However some things are entirely overdone. The tendency of cars to burn out, and the amount of inertia from a spin is overdone as well.

Like I said, I've been driving around aggressively in the real world for a long time, with several variants of souped up cruisers, and they simply do not launch into a spin like PC2 does. Sometimes, even with the older overpowered, light rear ended cruisers, you'd find yourself STARTING into a spin, but not to the effect I see in PC2.

Anyway, maybe I should save the PC2 talk for a different time, but just wanted to convey my pleasure with GTS. Feels very very good.



I used the T150 pro and cockpit cam view with GT sport and it does feel even more realistic than with controller. Ive always played Forza with a controller and flyby cam not for realism but for the fun factor (gamey feel) and to better see the approaching rammers. A bit of advice, upgrade from playing pc2 or Assetto Corsa with a controller, you will not get a full experience unless with a FFB wheel. The burnout/inertia feel could possibly due from using controller, I find it very odd steering using a controller in these advanced racing sims.
 
I've had GT Sports since posting here and very pleased with the overall feel of the physics. They respond naturally and predictably, as a real car would. What a fine driving game.
I mean, if that's the staple at which we choose what games are a good simulator, than most any of the games in this discussion are fine driving games. Whether that's Forza, GTS, Pcars or AC. As far as where they sit on the scale, Forza and GTS can be used interchangeably, while they sit noticeably behind games like Pcars and AC

Since when I've had chance to drive Forza 7 and I'm not sure how there is even a comparison between the two. Forza simply put, feels wrong in almost every respect. Like I said before, I'm not a gamer, but I can see Forza feels very "gamey".
I'm sure you'd be able to explain what was wrong?
 
Can people clarify what they mean with Forza being more "gamey"?
I am sure turning on all assist in GT Sport would give it a "gamey" feel.

I have seen many people claiming that the GT Sport tire model is a generation behind the likes of PC(2) and AC(C) and even Forza has a much complicated tire model.

And I can also see how dampning (the bouncyness) model in GT Sport is almost non existent and too simplified in comparison to Forza where you can see the tires reacting to bumps and such and have more tuning options.

So to return in question: what is this "gamey" feel everyone talks about?

I can also say GT Sport feels "gamey" because it does not react to bumps as Forza does.
 
Can people clarify what they mean with Forza being more "gamey"?
I am sure turning on all assist in GT Sport would give it a "gamey" feel.

I have seen many people claiming that the GT Sport tire model is a generation behind the likes of PC(2) and AC(C) and even Forza has a much complicated tire model.

And I can also see how dampning (the bouncyness) model in GT Sport is almost non existent and too simplified in comparison to Forza where you can see the tires reacting to bumps and such and have more tuning options.

So to return in question: what is this "gamey" feel everyone talks about?

I can also say GT Sport feels "gamey" because it does not react to bumps as Forza does.
That's the thing, gamey isn't a good word to describe anything that is going on, with any of these games. None of them are going to simulate things the exact same way, and often are having certain aspects that are done better than the competitor as well as things that they do worse.

Regardless of feel, Forza and GTS have always been on the same playing field, more or less. Hell, things can boil down to just not being used to the differences between input in the games, not the physics that they think. That was one major problem with Pcars1 - It was obviously more advanced as a simulator but the input optimization was so bad with a pad that you'd think it could just be something else entirely.
 
I mean, if that's the staple at which we choose what games are a good simulator, than most any of the games in this discussion are fine driving games. Whether that's Forza, GTS, Pcars or AC. As far as where they sit on the scale, Forza and GTS can be used interchangeably, while they sit noticeably behind games like Pcars and AC

Apparently being a great simulator means unusable default settings and making your player google the issue online to discover that their default tire pressure is non-competitive for the game's first offline race. Maybe someday I'll finally get my teeth in PC rather than continually bouncing off of it's absurdities.
 
Apparently being a great simulator means unusable default settings and making your player google the issue online to discover that their default tire pressure is non-competitive for the game's first offline race. Maybe someday I'll finally get my teeth in PC rather than continually bouncing off of it's absurdities.
Which still doesn't make it a physics issue, and there will always be tunes that will make a car work better than it does out of the gate. That's why people use multiple different ones for multiple different tracks - To get the most out of every car and track. Had they put more effort on the pad forefront from the get go, that may have eliminated a lot of my concerns, though.
 
Can people clarify what they mean with Forza being more "gamey"?
I am sure turning on all assist in GT Sport would give it a "gamey" feel.

I have seen many people claiming that the GT Sport tire model is a generation behind the likes of PC(2) and AC(C) and even Forza has a much complicated tire model.

And I can also see how dampning (the bouncyness) model in GT Sport is almost non existent and too simplified in comparison to Forza where you can see the tires reacting to bumps and such and have more tuning options.

So to return in question: what is this "gamey" feel everyone talks about?

I can also say GT Sport feels "gamey" because it does not react to bumps as Forza does.

It seems pretty interchangeable with "cartoony" or "lacking in passion" — ie. "it's not the game I like".

Both games do some aspects of real driving quite well, and others not so much. FM7 has a penchant for getting unruly at higher speeds: I was driving an M4 GTS around VIR recently for an esport thing and found it annoying how willing the back-end was to step out, even at well over 100mph. Meanwhile GT Sport has issues with low-speed oversteer: I keep coming back to the ND Miata and how hilariously tail-happy it is at road-legal speeds.

Forza has varying weather/time, but it's quite limited, and the lack of dedicated rain tires feels like a waste. Meanwhile the rain tires in GTS feel like a waste, since GT is quickly becoming the only racing game this generation to not have some level of dynamic time/weather. Some crashes feel overblown in FM7, but impacts have all the drama of toy cars booping one another in GTS. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Conversely, both have sweet spots. Medium-range road cars and touring cars feel great to me in FM7. Some road cars and lots of the Gr.4s are my favourites in GTS. And crucially, both are probably the best when it comes to pad optimization, enabling them to be picked up by general gamers. IMO Forza has the edge there, but then it also has worse wheel implementation (though the team is working to improve that).

It takes a serious amount of skill to be fast in both, and while some general real-world driving knowledge helps, when it comes down to it, in both cases, it's about maximizing the inherent exploits in each game. And both are far closer to each other than they are to the truly hardcore (and less popular) PC sims.
 
I've always considerd GT and Forza to be fairly close in realism but both feel quite different. There are things GT does better than Forza and vice versa. I prefer GT to Forza because I feel like I can read the cars grip levels and find I can push the cars to their limits more conistently whereas in Forza I find it far too easy to put the car into a slide or kick the back end out.

But I would not say Forza is an inferior sim to GT, just different. Neither are the pinnacle of car simulation, but both are good fun.
 
This is a strange point to make, because a) Forza and GT only indirectly compete with each other to begin with, and b) the PS4 has, by most estimates, at least twice the installed base the Xbox One has, which obviously affects the size of the pool of potential buyers.


Yeah maybe. I’d bet GT Sport has most sales. Accessibility is important and is the strength of gts and I imagine Forza as well. I think it’s beneficial for more difficult titles for gts to have such success because folks like me branch out from gts and play a bit of everything. I spend the most time by far in gts though because of the racing.

Re these games in general, if you are a passionate driver/car person you need to buy them all. They are all cool in diff ways.
Ac is awesome to drive on a good setup with quality wheel and pedal set. Pc2 I am gonna reinstall. I haven’t invested enough time in it yet... I do agree with @BallPtPenTheif though about default setups etc in some titles. With something like pc2 you have to configure a bunch of stuff imo to even make it drivable. If the sim studios were smart they’d give you at least s couple beginner friendly cars ready to go with tyre blankets so you can hop in and go and experience what the title can offer.
 
Yeah maybe. I’d bet GT Sport has most sales. Accessibility is important and is the strength of gts and I imagine Forza as well. I think it’s beneficial for more difficult titles for gts to have such success because folks like me branch out from gts and play a bit of everything. I spend the most time by far in gts though because of the racing.

Re these games in general, if you are a passionate driver/car person you need to buy them all. They are all cool in diff ways.
Ac is awesome to drive on a good setup with quality wheel and pedal set. Pc2 I am gonna reinstall. I haven’t invested enough time in it yet... I do agree with @BallPtPenTheif though about default setups etc in some titles. With something like pc2 you have to configure a bunch of stuff imo to even make it drivable. If the sim studios were smart they’d give you at least s couple beginner friendly cars ready to go with tyre blankets so you can hop in and go and experience what the title can offer.
With Pc2 take any of the lower power roadcars, change the setup to OEM, drop the tyre pressure by around 4 psi each, and then enjoy.
 
It seems pretty interchangeable with "cartoony" or "lacking in passion" — ie. "it's not the game I like".

Both games do some aspects of real driving quite well, and others not so much. FM7 has a penchant for getting unruly at higher speeds: I was driving an M4 GTS around VIR recently for an esport thing and found it annoying how willing the back-end was to step out, even at well over 100mph. Meanwhile GT Sport has issues with low-speed oversteer: I keep coming back to the ND Miata and how hilariously tail-happy it is at road-legal speeds.

Forza has varying weather/time, but it's quite limited, and the lack of dedicated rain tires feels like a waste. Meanwhile the rain tires in GTS feel like a waste, since GT is quickly becoming the only racing game this generation to not have some level of dynamic time/weather. Some crashes feel overblown in FM7, but impacts have all the drama of toy cars booping one another in GTS. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Conversely, both have sweet spots. Medium-range road cars and touring cars feel great to me in FM7. Some road cars and lots of the Gr.4s are my favourites in GTS. And crucially, both are probably the best when it comes to pad optimization, enabling them to be picked up by general gamers. IMO Forza has the edge there, but then it also has worse wheel implementation (though the team is working to improve that).

It takes a serious amount of skill to be fast in both, and while some general real-world driving knowledge helps, when it comes down to it, in both cases, it's about maximizing the inherent exploits in each game. And both are far closer to each other than they are to the truly hardcore (and less popular) PC sims.
Well this seems to be the best answer someone could give now so I am cool with it.
 
I described Forza as "gamey" because it seems too willing to want to kick out in the rear, regardless of speed and conditions. To me, this looks very similar to any arcade racers where "drifting" seems to be the name of the game. Once you've learned how to drift, you do it around every corner, no matter the speed.

Cars can certainly kick out, but the conditions have to be right. It seems Forza has code that says, the conditions for drifting are on 100% of the time.

Project Cars has a better feel, but there's a bit of twitchy to the way the body moves. As if the car movements are on fast forward. There doesn't seem to be a sense of weight and inertia as the car starts it's spin, or braking, or accelerating, etc.. I don't think that is related to the controller either.

GTS has a very smooth response, regardless how quick they want to let go. I think the smoothness and feel of inertia in the car movement is what makes GTS feel right... Even if the physics aren't up to par with the likes of PC2.

In the real world, cars are smooth in how they handle. 150 mph on the big road, and steering is smooth, car movements are smooth, even when hitting bumps and pot holes. GTS has captured that sense of smooth driving for me.
 
I described Forza as "gamey" because it seems too willing to want to kick out in the rear, regardless of speed and conditions. To me, this looks very similar to any arcade racers where "drifting" seems to be the name of the game. Once you've learned how to drift, you do it around every corner, no matter the speed.
No, that's not it at all. it may very well have a slight tendency towards oversteer on some cars, but it's really not any more gamey than GTS is. Drifting around every turn is in fact the worst way to play it, because you'd lose every single race, something that can't be said for most arcade games.

Once you learn the game, and it's mechanics, it's actually fairly easy to keep that rear in check. That's how it works for any game, really. You learn to work around what it does right/wrong.

Cars can certainly kick out, but the conditions have to be right. It seems Forza has code that says, the conditions for drifting are on 100% of the time.
That's a pretty inaccurate opinion of the game.

Really, all this is boiling down to the difference that you're not accustomed to. Given enough to adapt to a completely new and different physics engine, you'd be able to tell that it's really not any superior, or inferior for that matter, to what you're used to in GTS.

What I always hate about these games when playing on a pad is the terribly small joysticks, the length of them on either pad has always left me feeling a bit disconnected considering the lack of space from lock to lock. Purchasing some joystick extenders really makes a good difference in modulation and control of the vehicles in my opinion.

In my opinion, I feel GT can seem to be too grippy and precise at times while Forza is on the opposite of that spectrum. However, neither are offensive enough in that regard to be consider any lower than each other. I wonder if that can boil down to the differences in the tire and suspension models.
 
No, that's not it at all. it may very well have a slight tendency towards oversteer on some cars, but it's really not any more gamey than GTS is. Drifting around every turn is in fact the worst way to play it, because you'd lose every single race, something that can't be said for most arcade games.

Once you learn the game, and it's mechanics, it's actually fairly easy to keep that rear in check. That's how it works for any game, really. You learn to work around what it does right/wrong.


That's a pretty inaccurate opinion of the game.

Really, all this is boiling down to the difference that you're not accustomed to. Given enough to adapt to a completely new and different physics engine, you'd be able to tell that it's really not any superior, or inferior for that matter, to what you're used to in GTS.

What I always hate about these games when playing on a pad is the terribly small joysticks, the length of them on either pad has always left me feeling a bit disconnected considering the lack of space from lock to lock. Purchasing some joystick extenders really makes a good difference in modulation and control of the vehicles in my opinion.

In my opinion, I feel GT can seem to be too grippy and precise at times while Forza is on the opposite of that spectrum. However, neither are offensive enough in that regard to be consider any lower than each other. I wonder if that can boil down to the differences in the tire and suspension models.

Also, gamepad settings. The default settings in FH4 had me wondering how the hell anybody played that game until I went into the setting menu and set most of them to 0 and 100 respectively.
 
I'm not really used to GTS either since I haven't played it very long. I just picked up these racing games not too long ago and GTS just feels more natural to me. The smoothness and response of GTS translates very well to my real-world experience.
 
Also, gamepad settings. The default settings in FH4 had me wondering how the hell anybody played that game until I went into the setting menu and set most of them to 0 and 100 respectively.
The good thing is that they allow you to change the deadzones with a pad. That helps out so much, and it's the first tip I recommend to anyone that is new. It makes more difference in Forza Motorsport than in Forza Horizon, in my opinion.

I'm not really used to GTS either since I haven't played it very long. I just picked up these racing games not too long ago and GTS just feels more natural to me. The smoothness and response of GTS translates very well to my real-world experience.
I don't have much experience with racing at full throttle on the track in the types of cars you see in these game, but have a basic understanding, mostly. I think they're both hit and miss, but enjoyable enough in the way the replicate reality in their specific ways.
 
I guess the thing that kind of turns me off and makes me think more arcade with some of these games, is how easy they are to put a car into a spin. I remember the first time 25 years ago when we actually learned how to drive and I found it incredibly eye-opening on how hard it was to get our cars into a spin after a certain speed.

Maybe I've watched too many videos on YouTube, but it seems like drifting and getting your rear to kick out seems to be the cool thing to do.
This is where it gets interesting to me, because I find it fairly easy to keep the rear in check at all times, even in the rain. That's likely because I spent the time to adjust from game to game. I feel it's more about adjusting to the differences in the way these games go about things, and that pad input optimization, than labeling these two extremely comparable games as inaccurate/accurate. They're placement on the "sim" spectrum is extremely comparable, with both doing things differently, but offering a good dose of reality.

It may very well be the "cool" thing to do, but the way you're describing it in Forza isn't really accurate. Do that in a race and you'd lose by a country mile every single time.

I just don't feel gamey is doing anyone, or any point, justice here. Both games have it's fair share of issues concerning the physics. If one is going to be gamey because you feel there's too much oversteer, than wouldn't a lack of an adjustment on tire pressure within the tire model make one just as "gamey" too? I wouldn't go so far to try to degenerate it as much, because I know these games aren't aiming to be the pinnacle of simulation.
 
I don't disagree here. But what I'm saying is if Forza allows it, then it feels gamey. It's less about controlling it, and more about what happens if I do this or that?

For instance, just yank the wheel hard left or right in Forza, what does the car do? After a certain speed, it won't spin, it should go into a long yaw sideways and then begin to spin as the speed bleeds off.

If you have your setup so it responds properly, then maybe I need to investigate a good setup further..
 
I don't disagree here. But what I'm saying is if Forza allows it, then it feels gamey. It's less about controlling it, and more about what happens if I do this or that?
Allows what? Drifting? I'm not so sure I understand. Drifting is not something that's exclusive to video games only..

For instance, just yank the wheel hard left or right in Forza, what does the car do? After a certain speed, it won't spin, it should go into a long yaw sideways and then begin to spin as the speed bleeds off.
I'm not so sure I understand what your meaning with this. You'd have to elaborate on conditions.

If you have your setup so it responds properly, then maybe I need to investigate a good setup further..
That's one thing I always feel is lacking in Forza, the initial default tuning set-ups on many cars. They just don't make sense to me, and I feel likely lead to a lot of undesirable results. It's not all about setup though, as player skill has as big a part, if not bigger part, of the equation. As does how well you're able to adapt to the things it does differently between other games.
 
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