FIA Race Discussion [Archive]

[watto79]

@bigbeefytaco you should watch this, it seems relevant.

 

[mohitraina91]

Sorry but when in a one-make race a wheel user can take a corner at a faster speed there is definitely an advantage. Not to mention how much easier it is to throttle control and turn with more precision. There is a reason all the top drivers use a wheel. I just don't understand how people can deny this advantage.

I'm a pad user now, have been a wheel user in the past.

Does the wheel have an advantage? Yes. But very tiny (better tire wear and a tiny bit more precision). The difference is much smaller than you think.

Oh and for reference I race in the 2nd split usually in North America FIA (and sometimes top split as well).

I noticed you said something above about a 2 second advantage. That guaranteed has nothing to do with the inputs - there's something you need to work on for you to get better. If you come back and tell me the advantage is 2 -3 tenths, then maybe I'll be inclined to agree with you.

 

[Pigems]

I've used a wheel before and my times improved. I've watched replays of wheel users and they can take corners faster than my controller will let me. I've read multiple threads where numerous players agree there is an advantage.

Edit: Shame how you result to personal insults. Not good character.

No, it’s a shame that you can’t seem to acknowledge when people put facts in front you. It’s the guy holding the DS4 man, not the DS4 itself. I’m done now.

 

[bigbeefytaco]

No, it’s a shame that you can’t seem to acknowledge when people put facts in front you. It’s the guy holding the DS4 man, not the DS4 itself. I’m done now.

Use a DS4 then I guess it doesn't matter anyways since none of us are going to even win it all. You're literally ignoring the fact that my ties improved with a wheel. There are countless statements out there agree that wheels have an advantage.

 

[roamingbard13]

Being more stubborn doesn’t mean you are more right

 

[Pigems]

Use a DS4 then I guess it doesn't matter anyways since none of us are going to even win it all. You're literally ignoring the fact that my ties improved with a wheel. There are countless statements out there agree that wheels have an advantage.

You’re personal outcome does not make definitive proof of anything, just because that’s how it works for you, doesn’t make it the truth or the same for everyone.

 

[bigbeefytaco]

You’re personal outcome does not make definitive proof of anything, just because that’s how it works for you, doesn’t make it the truth or the same for everyone.

Like I said, there are numerous players out there that share the same feelings, including some who are DM'ing me right now instead of posting publicly because they'll just get ganged up on by top split drivers who want everyone to think that the hundreds of dollars they spend on wheels and a driving rig do not provide an advantage.

 

[Granadier]

A while back I changed my after-race message to "Congrats @GOTMAXPOWER" because he almost always won the races.

On a DS4.

 

[roamingbard13]

A while back I changed my after-race message to "Congrats @GOTMAXPOWER" because he almost always won the races.

On a DS4.

I’m not sure as what @GOTMAXPOWER does to us as merely “winning”....since he usually starts in the back and still beats us by multiple seconds

 

[GTWolverine]

That's another advantage. Tire wear. I can run laps over and over and get a perfect lap and still be 1.5 - 2 seconds off the top time. Then I will watch his replay and see him take corners a few miles an hour faster. How can I get better when there are limitations to what a DS4 can do compared to a wheel? There are literally corners I can not take as fast even if I brake perfectly and accelerate at the perfect time.

I use a G29 and I've found at most a few tenths of a second at most tracks compared to my DS4, and that also typically puts me 1.5-2s off the top times. The one advantage (besides tire wear) that it seems to have given me is that I can now maintain that gap to the top drivers at more tracks than I could with the DS4. What I mean by that is I'd only be able to get that close to the top times at tracks that I REALLY loved with the DS4, but now I can do that at almost all tracks. Meanwhile I don't seem to have gotten any faster at tracks I was already good at.

It's honestly more of a preference than anything. I just so happen to be slightly better with a wheel than a DS4, probably because I don't have the fine motor skills to manipulate the joysticks as precisely as I can mash pedals and turn a wheel. In previous GT games there seemed to be a definite advantage to having a wheel, but it's been greatly reduced for GT Sport. Even in the older GT games, there were still a few people who could do amazing things with a DS3.

 

[Granadier]

I’m not sure as what @GOTMAXPOWER does to us as merely “winning”....since he usually starts in the back and still beats us by multiple seconds

It's blatant psychological abuse if you ask me.

 

[bigbeefytaco]

I noticed you said something above about a 2 second advantage. That guaranteed has nothing to do with the inputs - there's something you need to work on for you to get better. If you come back and tell me the advantage is 2 -3 tenths, then maybe I'll be inclined to agree with you.

Missed this but you're misunderstanding me if you think I'm saying I will be the fastest driver every race if I got a wheel. Obviously that is 99% not going to happen. The point is I'll be faster with a wheel because of its advantage and will not find myself off the pace a ridiculous amount such as that. Depending on the length of the lap, I will be 1 - 2 seconds off the top time even when I hit all my braking points and every apex. A wheel would lessen the game and it should be more realistic. A perfect lap should not be that far off.

 

[Hasnain282]

It's blatant psychological abuse if you ask me.

Must be hacking

Both pad and wheel have their advantages and disadvantages but I've never used a wheel so can't really compare from my own view, though I'm sure most (if not all) people will say it is way more fun on a wheel.

In my case, it's usually a lack of talent and poor composure that lets me down

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

A while back I changed my after-race message to "Congrats @GOTMAXPOWER" because he almost always won the races.

On a DS4.

You wrote that in the past tense, if you've changed it I'll have to win some more.

The quickest wheel users are quicker than the quickest pad users, I think that is a fact on any driving game. How much of that is them being better players and how much is gained through which toy they're using I have no idea.

 

[Winnie847]

Taco man said he runs “perfect” laps and is still 2s off pace.

that’s all anyone really needs to know, to know he’s full of it.

edit: I wonder what his excuse would be if the top times he was comparing his laps to, was set by a DS4 user???

 

[mohitraina91]

Missed this but you're misunderstanding me if you think I'm saying I will be the fastest driver every race if I got a wheel. Obviously that is 99% not going to happen. The point is I'll be faster with a wheel because of its advantage and will not find myself off the pace a ridiculous amount such as that. Depending on the length of the lap, I will be 1 - 2 seconds off the top time even when I hit all my braking points and every apex. A wheel would lessen the game and it should be more realistic. A perfect lap should not be that far off.

Something to note, the difference between the time that's on top of the leaderboard vs. 10th place on the leaderboard is always 1 second+.

Those top leaderboard people do things with a wheel that even the 10th best with a wheel can't replicate. Think about how crazy that is..

I always compare myself to the 10th place on the leaderboard, as that's a realistic target to aspire to for now.

Like I said earlier, I agree that the wheel user has an advantage. But as someone who has a lot of experience in both, the advantage over a single hot lap is quite small. And it shouldn't be affecting you too much unless you're in a lobby where every tenth counts.

The wheel does give you more immersion, enjoyment, and consistency however. Can't deny that.

 

[SlowDriver87]

I've considered getting a wheel but I can't justify the outlay at the moment. I'm quite heavy handed and think I struggle with minimal inputs with the sticks and triggers on the DS4. For example, the difference between full and half throttle must be a couple of millimetres on the right trigger. I've never owned a wheel so I can't possibly say I'd be quicker but I'd like to think I would be mainly based on those things. I'm almost scared to get one if in the very likely case I'm actually slower!

 

[MaxAttack]

You wrote that in the past tense, if you've changed it I'll have to win some more.

The quickest wheel users are quicker than the quickest pad users, I think that is a fact on any driving game. How much of that is them being better players and how much is gained through which toy they're using I have no idea.

Implying you're not sandbagging by a good 2 seconds every time out, so the wheely boys don't feel too bad about the wasted investment.

I also love how basically every time this question comes up, it turns into a convoluted ritual to summon you to the thread

For my 2 cents though, I'll quote the sportsmanship video: sports are a challenge against yourself.

I find it a waste of time scratching my head over why guys who have put years more than me into this kind of game are better than me at it, regardless what equipment they use.

 

[bigbeefytaco]

Taco man said he runs “perfect” laps and is still 2s off pace.

that’s all anyone really needs to know, to know he’s full of it.

edit: I wonder what his excuse would be if the top times he was comparing his laps to, was set by a DS4 user???

Must have missed when I said two seconds off the top time and that I'm not saying I would be the fastest driver in every race with a wheel but that the gap would be much more realistic. But I also wonder what my excuse would be. Care to use a DS4 or are you too chicken? Do you not want to risk hurting your ego or lose the 10 views you get on every youtube video? I've beaten you before anyways so might want to put some more practice in.

 

[HaydenFan69]

Really wished the Nation's Cup race yesterday was a surprise wet race. Jumped in a lobby to test and realized these guys had been running as if it had been raining for a week. One of the beauties of racing in the rain is the quick ability to adapt. But the way GTS & PD had set it up, it was as if it was a typical race event. Essentially taking away all the actual challenge of racing in the wet. But it's GTS, so why should I have expected anything else.

Though, it was Spa, and I know the Porsche would've been strong. So probably should've given it a try. Especially with @KosmoKazi pulling away to a now unreachable position in the Local Rankings from myself, only the Gr. 1 race @ Laguna Seca seems interesting.

 

[Ashthebash]

what's crazy is that people think that by getting a wheel they just magically gain 2 seconds. some of the fastest people in the game, in the world, use DS4. even world tour level drivers. and some of them are slower on wheel than they are on DS4. this might sound like a wild idea, but you should probably just practice more. if your SR is above 90, the matchmaking is pretty good and you will be matched against people with similar DR level, regardless of input device.

As someone who started using a wheel for the first time just over a year ago and has gained that magical two seconds or more... I completely agree with you! It wasn't a magic wand it was bloody hard work. And I feel if I changed the control method with a DS4 now compared to the method I used to use I'd be much quicker than I was previously. Maybe not as quick as I am with the wheel, but certainly within half a second or so and the gain for me wasn't the difference between the pad and the wheel so much as a difference between learning how to drive the car and not

though I'm sure most (if not all) people will say it is way more fun on a wheel.

It's definitely far more immersive, I love it. Best purchase to do with gaming I've ever made (it does get WAY hotter than using a pad though!!)

 

[MaxAttack]

Must have missed when I said two seconds off the top time and that I'm not saying I would be the fastest driver in every race with a wheel but that the gap would be much more realistic. But I also wonder what my excuse would be. Care to use a DS4 or are you too chicken? Do you not want to risk hurting your ego or lose the 10 views you get on every youtube video? I've beaten you before anyways so might want to put some more practice in.

Do you need it pointed out again that there are pad drivers that make top 10, make world tour, and make a huge percentage of wheel users look very slow?

If it riles you up this much that you lose "2 seconds" by not having a wheel (I'd love to see your maths on this) perhaps you could turn that into motivation to save a little money and buy one. I would advise you again that you don't NEED one to get top pace, as that only comes with self improvement, to which there are no shortcuts known to science.

I use a DS4, I race all these wheel users you've been talking to (and now insulting) on a regular basis. They usually beat me, because I'm slower than them. As many of them have mentioned, GOTMAXPOWER usually beats them all, because he is quicker. That should be all you need to know.

 

[bigbeefytaco]

Do you need it pointed out again that there are pad drivers that make top 10, make world tour, and make a huge percentage of wheel users look very slow?

If it riles you up this much that you lose "2 seconds" by not having a wheel (I'd love to see your maths on this) perhaps you could turn that into motivation to save a little money and buy one. I would advise you again that you don't NEED one to get top pace, as that only comes with self improvement, to which there are no shortcuts known to science.

I use a DS4, I race all these wheel users you've been talking to (and now insulting) on a regular basis. They usually beat me, because I'm slower than them. As many of them have mentioned, GOTMAXPOWER usually beats them all, because he is quicker. That should be all you need to know.

1) I've said it twice now. I'm not saying I'd make up that 1 to 2 second difference. I said a wheel would help the gap to be much more realistic.
2) I don't need to save money. I've been moving here and there because of my job. Not interested in lugging a big rig around at the moment.
3) You do need one to get top pace. Multiple people in this thread, and many others, have listed advantages.
4) Yes because I started the insulting. Might want to go back a page or two.
5) I have a similar DR and I've beat the people saying those claims as well.

 

[MaxAttack]

1) I've said it twice now. I'm not saying I'd make up that 1 to 2 second difference. I said a wheel would help the gap to be much more realistic.
2) I don't need to save money. I've been moving here and there because of my job. Not interested in lugging a big rig around at the moment.
3) You do need one to get top pace. Multiple people in this thread, and many others, have listed advantages.
4) Yes because I started the insulting. Might want to go back a page or two.
5) I have a similar DR and I've beat the people saying those claims as well.

Well, I don't understand what you mean about making the gap "more realistic". The gap is your skill, I'm not sure how else to put it. I'd take that as good news. You CAN get better.

I can sympathise to a degree, I feel I have hit a wall in pace recently, but it's my second or third wall. The faster you get the harder it is to go faster. It can be frustrating, like in practice for the next league I'm in, I am struggling to get 1:34s around Yamagiwa, and the faster drivers in the series are hitting mid 32s easy.

The stupidest thing I can do at that point is be a bad tradesman and blame my tools when there is literally another pad user in the room going faster than them.

There are advantages to BOTH. It's well known that it's easier to look after tyres on a wheel, due to the fact it's easier to make small adjustments to the steering, which is a small advantage in and of itself. But throttle control is very easy on a pad and the blending of brake and throttle (say, when trail braking into, and accelerating out of a slow hairpin) is MUCH easier with your index fingers than your feet, and this is a comment many wheel users will mention - remember, basically every wheel user starts on a pad as that's what comes with the console.

You don't need one to get to tippy top pace. What you need is crazy dedication, and a lot of time. Many of us in this world don't have the time it takes, that's a sad fact of reality, but it doesn't mean racing can't be a great, fun hobby. Perhaps you are taking it a little more seriously than is best to have a good time.

I don't know what else to say to you really. I've done my best to re-impose zen upon this precious, precious thread. You won't take advice from the people here, who go out of their way to give you information as to why you've got it a bit wrong here, which can frustrate people quickly. If you're not willing to hear counterarguments, why post in an open forum?

 

[bduddy]

Real cars are driven with wheels for a reason. Distorting the physics, and yes, it would take distorting the physics, to make cars drive "equally" as well with a controller, would ruin them. Tried Forza lately? Yikes, the handling is awful. But Forza controller players are happy, apparently. This isn't a game vs. game thing, I loved some of the older Forza games, but the recent physics are just not even close.

 

[Windfire1010]

Time for the FF show.

 

[Kermit_2142]

Jeez can we get back to the subject matter of tonight’s fia races please.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

1) I've said it twice now. I'm not saying I'd make up that 1 to 2 second difference. I said a wheel would help the gap to be much more realistic.
2) I don't need to save money. I've been moving here and there because of my job. Not interested in lugging a big rig around at the moment.
3) You do need one to get top pace. Multiple people in this thread, and many others, have listed advantages.
4) Yes because I started the insulting. Might want to go back a page or two.
5) I have a similar DR and I've beat the people saying those claims as well.

Well, I don't understand what you mean about making the gap "more realistic". The gap is your skill, I'm not sure how else to put it. I'd take that as good news. You CAN get better.

I can sympathise to a degree, I feel I have hit a wall in pace recently, but it's my second or third wall. The faster you get the harder it is to go faster. It can be frustrating, like in practice for the next league I'm in, I am struggling to get 1:34s around Yamagiwa, and the faster drivers in the series are hitting mid 32s easy.

The stupidest thing I can do at that point is be a bad tradesman and blame my tools when there is literally another pad user in the room going faster than them.

There are advantages to BOTH. It's well known that it's easier to look after tyres on a wheel, due to the fact it's easier to make small adjustments to the steering, which is a small advantage in and of itself. But throttle control is very easy on a pad and the blending of brake and throttle (say, when trail braking into, and accelerating out of a slow hairpin) is MUCH easier with your index fingers than your feet, and this is a comment many wheel users will mention - remember, basically every wheel user starts on a pad as that's what comes with the console.

You don't need one to get to tippy top pace. What you need is crazy dedication, and a lot of time. Many of us in this world don't have the time it takes, that's a sad fact of reality, but it doesn't mean racing can't be a great, fun hobby. Perhaps you are taking it a little more seriously than is best to have a good time.

I don't know what else to say to you really. I've done my best to re-impose zen upon this precious, precious thread. You won't take advice from the people here, who go out of their way to give you information as to why you've got it a bit wrong here, which can frustrate people quickly. If you're not willing to hear counterarguments, why post in an open forum?

I think the main advantage wheel users have is being able to make mid-corner adjustments, they can constantly alter the steering angle to optimise their line, that is almost impossible on a controller without over-adjusting and throwing yourself off the road (you can get more/less rotation through the throttle but it's one less tool at your disposal). You kind of have to chuck it in each corner and hope you've got it right. @MaxAttack mentioned Yamagiwa which is a good example for the tyre wear, because you have less control you're doing the long corners on full lock and scrubbing the fronts, with a wheel you can drive more to the limit of the tyre and save their life.

Wheel is probably harder to get to a quick pace but their is a higher ceiling than with a controller. All of the quickest players are using them and that isn't because they're pretending to be Lewis Hamilton, most of them really like winning so will choose whatever input will give them the best chance.

 

[SlowDriver87]

I just did the 9:40pm slot and it was a nice surprise. I'm on 29k DR and was put in to a room with nearly all DR A drivers. I got door number 20 which was a relief, and had an okay qualifying and started 15th. I started on the soft tyres and managed to make up a few positions on the opening laps and got up to 11th place. In to the pits at the end of lap 5 to change to mediums with no fuel so that the car was nice and light. By lap 9 I was up to 9th after a couple more overtakes.

Back in to the pits at the end of the lap to refuel and a new set of softs for the final run. I got up to 7th as one driver pit later than me and another spun. I had a good battle with the Aston Martin in 6th for the final few laps and we swapped places a few times, but I took took him on lap 12 and stayed there.

I got 2223 DR points from just one race, and I'm back up to DR A, so all in all a very clean and successful race with no bad sportsmanship at all! I got a mild punt on lap 1 but the guy said sorry at the end of the race and I only lost one place, so no bother. I quite like Alsace having never tried it until today.

 

[Jwptexas]

Can't believe this.... qualified 9th, started on mediums worked my way into 8th then completely forgot I left the water running spun and quit, dang bad luck there! Good to see Granadier again, he was probably wandering wth I was doing.