FIA Race Discussion [Archive]

[_ApexPredator]

Actually the overall importance of the "S" ranking achievement within this competition is what is being overstated.

At this point the achievement is in relation to the "only the fastest, cleanest, fittest drivers WITHIN a competitors region or country possibly that may be driving for a particular car manufacturer of the drivers region or country of residence.

I think we can finally agree. From what I've read, all people are saying is that the above statement, is a little different from:
"'Star Players' are players who exhibit superior technique and sportsmanship, that will be revered by all players."

But using the same track as an example the 10,000 level driver turning a 1.22 lap time which would be the best he may do at his skill level would be no easier for him to accomplish that the 65,000 level driver would find it no more difficult at his skill level to turn a lap time of 1.19 on the same circuit.

So again making a statement that basically says that because of being a lower ranked driver that possesses skills in line with that ranking that that driver does not try or compete to the very best of his ability and just because he is not a top ranked driver that a win against equal competition is not the same is BS.

It's not BS though is it.
Let's combine your example above with your earlier Olympics analogy:
Two runners on the same track; one's fat and one isn't.
The fat one runs to the best of their ability: 2:10, the athletic runner runs to the best of their ability: 1:45.

You're saying both runners should go to the Olympics, I'm saying the Olympics should be reserved for the fastest runners.

 

[DriftMethod]

PD announced how to become a Star Player on June 18th. It was discussed on a different thread, but included some of the same people that only now are voicing their concerns.

It seems people are surprised by the results of the Star Player system and their concerns are based on that surprise. If anyone read the qualifications (which many of them did) then there's no reason to be surprised.

I think the discussion would’ve been much different if they just added “Top 24 Eligible” on their profiles instead of DR S because of what it meant in the past.

That sums it up nicely. Ultimately that's what the Star Player system is. It's just a label and I hope we can all see past that and move on.

 

[R10tz0r]

As I see it the "S" ranking is a symbol of achievement, and perhaps should be seperate from your DR rank, it symbolizes you achieved a top position in either your nation or your chosen manufacturer, nothing more.

I do think people are confusing this with entry to the top 24 races, which in my eyes is something different. Scores are collected in the first 3 rounds and the top 24 total scores gain entry to the race (split by limit per nation/manufacturer). having an S doesn't automatically gain entry to the top 24, you can be number 1 driver for say, lamborghini and have an S but there may be 30 players with higher scores from other manufacturers and so you wouldn't gain entry. You could be number 2 Driver for Aston martin, have an A ranking but be within the top 24 scores and you would gain entry.

While S ranking and top 24 races are linked in that generally the S drivers are more likely to qualify for entry, they are not hand in hand. IMO PD haven't explained this clearly enough and there seems to be a lot of confusion.

This is my take on it, but could well be wrong.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

I think we can finally agree. From what I've read, all people are saying is that the above statement, is a little different from:
"'Star Players' are players who exhibit superior technique and sportsmanship, that will be revered by all players."


It's not BS though is it.
Let's combine your example above with your earlier Olympics analogy:
Two runners on the same track; one's fat and one isn't.
The fat one runs to the best of their ability: 2:10, the athletic runner runs to the best of their ability: 1:45.

You're saying both runners should go to the Olympics, I'm saying the Olympics should be reserved for the fastest runners.

This video best explains slow S drivers competing against fast ones, and your example of shapely guys running.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

You're saying both runners should go to the Olympics, I'm saying the Olympics should be reserved for the fastest runners.

But if the fat one is the fastest runner from his country that has an open slot for Olympic competition,
and the skinny runner that is faster is not fast enough to fill one of his countries open slots,
then the slower fatter runner will be an Olympic Athlete while the skinny one watches the games from home according to the rules.

The Olympics rules are not geared to only include the fastest of the fast athletes in the world.
They are geared to include the fastest from many different regions
Same as parts of the competition within this GTS contest.

In your example the skinny faster runner should be included if the rules stated the competition was only for the very fastest competitors within the entire worlds running community. Then being the fastest of the fast would be the only way to qualify, the Olympic rules are not structured to that criteria though.

Skinny runner gets to sit home and get fat eating and watching the games on the tube!

 

[ivann]

In relation to football,
every country has maximum of 23 spots available for inviting best players (most likely by performance) that will represent their country (same for each country).

In GT Sport Nations cup, every country has maximum of 3 spots available to be filled with best players (by performance) and its same for each country.

This doesnt mean that 24th player in one country doesnt have better performance than all players from another country (football) or
that 4th player in one country doesnt have better performance than all players from another country (GT Sport).

Same goes for S rank nomination in Nations Cup, top 10 for each country (equal).

As for Manufacturers Cup available spots for entry and S rank nomination, I can see slight correlation with football clubs.

 

[RHODRIEWILLIAMS]

But if the fat one is the fastest runner from his country that has an open slot for Olympic competition,
and the skinny runner that is faster is not fast enough to fill one of his countries open slots,
then the slower fatter runner will be an Olympic Athlete while the skinny one watches the games from home according to the rules.

The Olympics rules are not geared to only include the fastest of the fast athletes in the world.
They are geared to include the fastest from many different regions
Same as parts of the competition within this GTS contest.

In your example the skinny faster runner should be included if the rules stated the competition was only for the very fastest competitors within the entire worlds running community. Then being the fastest of the fast would be the only way to qualify, the Olympic rules are not structured to that criteria though.

Skinny runner gets to sit home and get fat eating and watching the games on the tube!

Usa Trials are tougher than most heats in the Olympics

 

[ivann]

Let's combine your example above with your earlier Olympics analogy:
Two runners on the same track; one's fat and one isn't.
The fat one runs to the best of their ability: 2:10, the athletic runner runs to the best of their ability: 1:45.

You're saying both runners should go to the Olympics, I'm saying the Olympics should be reserved for the fastest runners.

Thats just your opinion and then Olympics would be like: 200 americans, 150 russians and 150 yamaicans.
Thats not the spirit nor the rule of the Olympics.

 

[adstomko]

I'm a bit behind in this, but what does the 'S' actually do? Does it not neither give you an advantage nor make it exclusive for Top 24 Superstars?
I don't think this has worked out well for PD.
The America/Asia regions seems to have an easier opportunity than some European countries to make the World Finals, which is harsh and a little unfair. Yes, it is the Nations Cup, but why can't some countries have more spots available than others? The difference in population size between countries across the world is vast. Additionally, some countries/states cannot participate in the world finals so why not allow more spaces for some countries to make it more competitive? Not a fan of the 'let's get a bigger audience' approach. Just try and aim to offer a race with the best talent in the world. If this is the case, then there should be a cup based on raw talent, because some countries have more drivers than the limit whom could win the World Championship

 

[_ApexPredator]

Thats just your opinion and then Olympics would be like: 200 americans, 150 russians and 150 yamaicans.
Thats not the spirit nor the rule of the Olympics.

I think you're both forgetting the inferred metaphor of the analogy. I don't really want to get into a discussion about Olympic qualification criteria, but just to address your point both runners from my poor attempt at using VFour's analogy are from the same country, one of them chose to run for Nike the other Puma.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I think you're both forgetting the inferred metaphor of the analogy. I don't really want to get into a discussion about Olympic qualification criteria, but just to address your point both runners from my poor attempt at using VFour's analogy are from the same country, one of them chose to run for Nike the other Puma.

If there was a slot for both in the rules then both would go, if the skinny guy raced for PUMA and another racer was faster already had the open spot for Puma then yes by the rules the fat guy goes for Nike while the skinny guy gets to watch from home.

No matter how you want to twist it the fastest guy within the scope of the rules gets to advance to the next round of the competition. Twisting how you question it does not change the fact the rules are the rules and is what dictates who advances.

 

[_ApexPredator]

No matter how you want to twist it the fastest guy withing the scope of the rules gets to advance to the next round of the competition. Twisting how you question it does not change the fact the rules are the rules and is what dictates who advances.

Everyone agrees on that.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Everyone agrees on that

Whether everyone agrees on anything in this thread is debatable within itself!

One thing is that prior to the start of this contest it was made very clear that choosing what manufacturer to represent was not a choice to be taken lightly and the choice would remain who you drove for and represented through the remainder of 2018.

The rules also spelled out very plainly how many spots would be allotted per category and what we are seeing at the end of this first round is that apparently some racers from a strategy standpoint chose manufacturers that were at the bottom of the barrel as far as being competitive in class.

That perhaps that was with the hopes that there would be BoP adjustments over the course of the season that would nerf some of the faster cars and perhaps a boost would be forthcoming that would make those current non competitive cars a force to be reckoned with within the class.

Apparently though it was a fair amount of lower ranked drivers that chose these cars, maybe because they knew it was the only way they had a chance to advance against the fastest racers and through round 1 their strategy apparently has worked for some.

It seems many of the "faster " drivers chose the popular cars and was not fast enough among the other racers of the same manufacturer to qualify for one of the limited open slots rather than employ the strategy that the slower guys did that if they had they would have qualified because they would have been the fastest drivers of their region possibly for a less popular manufacturer other than the one they had chosen.

Again possibly an example of a competitor who may have very likely looking and studying the rules and made competition decisions for the contest that gave them the very best chances of obtaining the best finish possible for themselves.

No different than using a fuel saving or pit strategy to win a race even though you may not be the fastest racer on the track, there is more to racing than just being fast at times, sometimes those that pay more attention to details will pull off the upset victory.

 

[oamoShotya]

Thinking about it, it does say UP TO 3/10 players for each country eligible. Does not that mean that say Norway, where i am from, where the playerbase is really low, can end up with no racers perticipating in the finals anyway? My first language is not english, but to me that means the eliminations process kinda is how it should be and fair.

If you are a top notch player from a more populated country, say England, and your not skilled enough to get to the finals becaus some other british lads are even faster and better. That would have happened down the line anyway if you got to the finals?

Now I confused myself, what are the discussion about anyway? What is the problem Caus the best in the world would win anyway? Right? If you dont get to the finals becaus you have some bad races, your not good enough to begin with? Caus you have to performe your best when the race is, and not just when you have a good day.

 

[DriftMethod]

Due to my schedule, I focused on the Manufacturers races for Season 1. I'm liking the Season 2 Nations races more, so probably shift over there. I haven't really paid attention to the Nations, but thought the racing might be tighter since it's a lot closer to a one make format than the Manufacturers. Anyone feel that the Nations or Manufacturers are more or less competitive?

 

[mclarenLB]

I think the last couple pages really do highlight how ridiculously incoherent and confusing the new S rating is.

Its bad game design.

 

[ZokyCRO]

Thinking about it, it does say UP TO 3/10 players for each country eligible. Does not that mean that say Norway, where i am from, where the playerbase is really low, can end up with no racers perticipating in the finals anyway? My first language is not english, but to me that means the eliminations process kinda is how it should be

If you are a top notch player from a more populated country, say England, and your not skilled enough to get to the finals becaus some other british lads are even faster and better. That would have happened down the line anyway if you got to the finals?

Now I confused myself, what are the discussion about anyway? What is the problem Caus the best in the world would win anyway? Right? If you dont get to the finals becaus you have some bad races, your not good enough to begin with? Caus you have to performe your best when the race is, and not just when you have a good day.

In theory yes, in practice not really, you basically have 4 rounds to qualify for top24 superstars race which is a must:
1.qualys in those races are only 10mins with traffic and slipstreams which means they are very unpredictable sometimes.
2. penalty system for contacts is out of this world
3. getting high point lobbies in those 4 rounds will be pure luck based, you could easily get a low point lobby with very strong driver lineup.
4. And now comes your skill and how really fast you are.

Thats is the way I see it and it just makes me frustrated as you can't affect those things.

 

[KONTRAone]

In theory yes, in practice not really, you basically have 4 rounds to qualify for top24 superstars race which is a must:
1.qualys in those races are only 10mins with traffic and slipstreams which means they are very unpredictable sometimes.
2. penalty system for contacts is out of this world
3. getting high point lobbies in those 4 rounds will be pure luck based, you could easily get a low point lobby with very strong driver lineup.
4. And now comes your skill and how really fast you are.

Thats is the way I see it and it just makes me frustrated as you can't affect those things.

I completely agree that there are too many variables in this competition, which is why I think that the qualifications for the first top 24 race are ridiculous... A simple network issue or an unjustified 10 second penalty can easily take a top competitor out of the running.

 

[bloodyboyblue]

Due to my schedule, I focused on the Manufacturers races for Season 1. I'm liking the Season 2 Nations races more, so probably shift over there. I haven't really paid attention to the Nations, but thought the racing might be tighter since it's a lot closer to a one make format than the Manufacturers. Anyone feel that the Nations or Manufacturers are more or less competitive?

Nations are basically glorified Daily Races and are usually just straight racing, Manufacturers have more strategy and races-within-the-race going on usually

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I think the last couple pages really do highlight how ridiculously incoherent and confusing the new S rating is.

Actually the new "S" rating is not incoherent and confusing at all.
The Championship very clearly define what the "S"is, what it means and what it does.

Where in my opinion the confusion is coming in is players trying to associate the old S designation to being the same as the new S designation which it is not.

I agree that PD would have been better to call the achievement or the qualification just about anything else to at least not have associoation between the old and new..

It still would not change the fact that some disagree with who is eligible to qualify regardless of what you want to name it.

This is from the 2018 highlights concerning the Championship,

Players who have performed extraordinary well during Season 1 and/or 2 will have the option to obtain 'Star Player' status by registering their profile details. The 'Star Players' are identified by an 'S' Driver Rating, opening the path to the 'Top 24 Superstars' races and the Live Events described below. With the introduction of the 'Star Player' system, the current Driver Rating 'S' will be changed to 'A+'.

3The battle at the top, the 'Top 24 Superstars'
During an Online Series season, certain rounds will have a 'Top 24 Superstars' race that only Star Players will be able to compete in. In these races, top players will be awarded bonus points, and it will be even possible to earn more points than a standard race.

 

[DriftMethod]

Nations are basically glorified Daily Races and are usually just straight racing, Manufacturers have more strategy and races-within-the-race going on usually

Hopefully that doesn't mean more penalties in Nations, since the racing could be much closer than Manufacturers.

 

[bloodyboyblue]

Hopefully that doesn't mean more penalties in Nations, since the racing could be much closer than Manufacturers.

Nah, they’re about the same in that regard it’s just about matching more than either of them being worse or better than the other

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

Due to my schedule, I focused on the Manufacturers races for Season 1. I'm liking the Season 2 Nations races more, so probably shift over there. I haven't really paid attention to the Nations, but thought the racing might be tighter since it's a lot closer to a one make format than the Manufacturers. Anyone feel that the Nations or Manufacturers are more or less competitive?

I struggle more with Nations when it's a one-make or a class I don't do often. The fact my first FIA win was in Nations is a bit of a surprise.

Manufacturers, I can utilize strategies more but I have to maximize that area to overcome choosing Jaguar.

 

[vvise]

Of the 40,000 active players in sport mode are we really upset at the like 50 players that have an S that aren't in the top? That's a little petty.

 

[mclarenLB]

Actually the new "S" rating is not incoherent and confusing at all.
The Championship very clearly define what the "S"is, what it means and what it does.

Where in my opinion the confusion is coming in is players trying to associate the old S designation to being the same as the new S designation which it is not.

I agree that PD would have been better to call the achievement or the qualification just about anything else to at least not have associoation between the old and new..

It still would not change the fact that some disagree with who is eligible to qualify regardless of what you want to name it.

This is from the 2018 highlights concerning the Championship,

Players who have performed extraordinary well during Season 1 and/or 2 will have the option to obtain 'Star Player' status by registering their profile details. The 'Star Players' are identified by an 'S' Driver Rating, opening the path to the 'Top 24 Superstars' races and the Live Events described below. With the introduction of the 'Star Player' system, the current Driver Rating 'S' will be changed to 'A+'.

3The battle at the top, the 'Top 24 Superstars'
During an Online Series season, certain rounds will have a 'Top 24 Superstars' race that only Star Players will be able to compete in. In these races, top players will be awarded bonus points, and it will be even possible to earn more points than a standard race.

New and casual players won't read this, thats why certain in game systems need to be intuitive at their very foundation. Players unaware of the system will naturally assume S is above A+, but that isn't the case.

I bet some C or B rank players will see S rank players in their splits and think "Why is this guy getting matched with me? He's way higher rank, this is unfair! The matchmaking system is so broken!" when in reality the S rank player is the same skill level and should in fact be in that lobby.

Its so unnecessary and throws the simplicity of the ranking system we've always known in the trash for... absolutely no benefit.

Its like having Level 30 above Level 50, it makes zero sense.

 

[DriftMethod]

New and casual players won't read this, thats why certain in game systems need to be intuitive at their very foundation. Players unaware of the system will naturally assume S is above A+, but that isn't the case.

I bet some C or B rank players will see S rank players in their splits and think "Why is this guy getting matched with me? He's way higher rank, this is unfair! The matchmaking system is so broken!" when in reality the S rank player is the same skill level and should in fact be in that lobby.

Its so unnecessary and throws the simplicity of the ranking system we've always known in the trash for... absolutely no benefit.

Its like having Level 30 above Level 50, it makes zero sense.

It's ok to disagree, but don't you think it's a benefit to make it clear who is eligible for the live events/prizes and for the Championship process including top 24 races?

 

[Matty28]

It's ok to disagree, but don't you think it's a benefit to make it clear who is eligible for the live events/prizes and for the Championship process including top 24 races?

Why must it override your driver rating and not be separate? Why is that not good enough?

 

[mclarenLB]

It's ok to disagree, but don't you think it's a benefit to make it clear who is eligible for the live events/prizes and for the Championship process including top 24 races?

Using the games primary ranking system to do that is a really bad idea.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I bet some C or B rank players will see S rank players in their splits and think "Why is this guy getting matched with me? He's way higher rank, this is unfair! The matchmaking system is so broken!

I am not so sure about the C ranked players but the B ranks are so used to being in lobbies that include both S and A ranked players (More A than S of course) their opinions about the matchmaking system will not change for the daily races.

More rare actually to not have the higher ranks included in the daily lobbies of the dailies that if they were not there they would question what happened where the matchmaking was concerned.

So from that aspect what few lower level players per region that may have picked up an S ranking will probably not even be noticed at least for the B ranks and I have been a B for so long that is all I feel I can speak towards.

 

[DriftMethod]

Why must it override your driver rating and not be separate? Why is that not good enough?

Using the games primary ranking system to do that is a really bad idea.

Neither of you answered my question, but that's ok. I'm hoping this can be a discussion rather than an argument to be won.

I completely understand that a better system could have been made and the naming is misleading as well. I also agree that it muddies the water for the ranking system and a separate "eligibility tag" of some sort would have been better. I'm not saying your points are invalid, but a lot of people seem to be hesitant to admit there are some benefits.

I don't think anyone is really saying this is a fantastic system, but the point some of us are trying to make is PD does have some responsibility to let people know how eligibility works, how the Championship is decided and the Star Player system is what they chose to do this.

The part I like is that PD is trying to be transparent on who is eligible and what steps players have to take to win. Now that we know how it works and had a chance to complain, I think we can be more constructive. Just saying how stupid it is, isn't much better than all those people who rant in all caps about how GT Sport sucks and how they will never play this game again. Let's offer solutions that PD might consider and help explain it to those who didn't read the rules or are wondering why people have S ratings.