FIA Race Discussion [Archive]

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Neither of you answered my question, but that's ok. I'm hoping this can be a discussion rather than an argument to be won.

I completely understand that a better system could have been made and the naming is misleading as well. I also agree that it muddies the water for the ranking system and a separate "eligibility tag" of some sort would have been better. I'm not saying your points are invalid, but a lot of people seem to be hesitant to admit there are some benefits.

I don't think anyone is really saying this is a fantastic system, but the point some of us are trying to make is PD does have some responsibility to let people know how eligibility works, how the Championship is decided and the Star Player system is what they chose to do this.

The part I like is that PD is trying to be transparent on who is eligible and what steps players have to take to win. Now that we know how it works and had a chance to complain, I think we can be more constructive. Just saying how stupid it is, isn't much better than all those people who rant in all caps about how GT Sport sucks and how they will never play this game again. Let's offer solutions that PD might consider and help explain it to those who didn't read the rules or are wondering why people have S ratings.

When something is introduced where the negatives far outweigh the positives, then yeah people will ignore the positives because the addition to the game is more of an overall negative addition, which frankly, some people right now (including me) would rather have Star Player flat-out removed than stick around.

But if it must stick around:

Solution 1: Star Players have a small Star icon to the right of their username wherever it displayed.
Solution 2: Star Players usernames are written in a mild gold tint wherever they appear.
Solution 3: Turn Star Player into its own 'Star Level' or 'Star Rating' levelling system, which increases by finishing high in FIA Championships, and decreases by placing poorly in FIA Championships. Then have a certain 'Star Level Requirement' to enter Top 24 Races and to be invited to finals.
 
When something is introduced where the negatives far outweigh the positives, then yeah people will ignore the positives because the addition to the game is more of an overall negative addition, which frankly, some people right now (including me) would rather have Star Player flat-out removed than stick around.

But if it must stick around:

Solution 1: Star Players have a small Star icon to the right of their username wherever it displayed.
Solution 2: Star Players usernames are written in a mild gold tint wherever they appear.
Solution 3: Turn Star Player into its own 'Star Level' or 'Star Rating' levelling system, which increases by finishing high in FIA Championships, and decreases by placing poorly in FIA Championships. Then have a certain 'Star Level Requirement' to enter Top 24 Races and to be invited to finals.
We'll just disagree on the weighting of positives and negatives. 👍

I like your solutions 1 and 2, or the other similar ones that have been brought up, but not a big fan of solution 3.

Solution 3 seems to add even more complexity and seems unnecessary since there's already points in the Championship that will be used for the top 24 races, prizes and live events. My view is based on these 3 "real" FIA seasons as being a stand alone event that determines who will win the prizes and go to the planned live events. I don't see it as a continuation of the test seasons or see any reason to carry over any ratings/points/etc. to future versions of Championships.
 
Solution 1: Star Players have a small Star icon to the right of their username wherever it displayed.

If I were to vote for your options I would vote for solution 1 as very easy to identify for the S rating.

Solution 3 I think is the worse, PD creating a ranking system of any kind does not seem to be one of their strongest suites. I would not want another wonky ranking system as we would have by the track record for ranking systems so far.
 
Neither of you answered my question, but that's ok. I'm hoping this can be a discussion rather than an argument to be won.

I completely understand that a better system could have been made and the naming is misleading as well. I also agree that it muddies the water for the ranking system and a separate "eligibility tag" of some sort would have been better. I'm not saying your points are invalid, but a lot of people seem to be hesitant to admit there are some benefits.

I don't think anyone is really saying this is a fantastic system, but the point some of us are trying to make is PD does have some responsibility to let people know how eligibility works, how the Championship is decided and the Star Player system is what they chose to do this.

The part I like is that PD is trying to be transparent on who is eligible and what steps players have to take to win. Now that we know how it works and had a chance to complain, I think we can be more constructive. Just saying how stupid it is, isn't much better than all those people who rant in all caps about how GT Sport sucks and how they will never play this game again. Let's offer solutions that PD might consider and help explain it to those who didn't read the rules or are wondering why people have S ratings.
I wasn't trying to answer your question because no one has even said that knowing who qualified is not a good idea. I'm trying to understand why a solution that doesn't interfere with driver ratings AND still tells you who qualified is not enough and people are still bickering about it.
 
I wasn't trying to answer your question because no one has even said that knowing who qualified is not a good idea. I'm trying to understand why a solution that doesn't interfere with driver ratings AND still tells you who qualified is not enough and people are still bickering about it.
It was mentioned that "...it serves absolutely no purpose." Which is the point I was trying to make, that yes it does serve the purpose of eligibilty.

As far as accepting an alternative solution and bickering, can I assume that even though you quoted me, you weren't referring to me? Since the post I made that you quoted states exactly that I agree with you: "I completely understand that a better system could have been made and the naming is misleading as well. I also agree that it muddies the water for the ranking system and a separate "eligibility tag" of some sort would have been better."
 
I'm trying to understand why a solution that doesn't interfere with driver ratings AND still tells you who qualified is not enough

Nobody has said that I am aware of that it would not be enough IF that is what PD had implemented to ID the Star players but it is not so it really is currently not of any consequence for this round anyway.

For this reason I as well do not understand the bickering, we have what we have, understand its meaning for the rating and continue on to the new round.
 
Well you see (and this is a 0.1% problem but still) Driver Rating doesn't work for ranking the very best players, because all of the very best players can all earn or re-earn 75k DR absolutely whenever they want, this is a problem because entry for the Manufacturers Round 4 T24 is DR based, what happens when more than 24 75k players enter a Top 24 race?

A separate ranking system for FIA has been discussed between top players for a while now because DR doesn't really work for ranking the very best, its too volatile and the cap is stupid.

Hell I'm just short of 75k right now, but I'm not even worried about re-earning it because dailies are such a get out of jail free card.

So thats why I offered Solution 3, I'd like to see a true top player ranking system. I get why this isn't important for basically everyone else though.
 
It was mentioned that "...it serves absolutely no purpose." Which is the point I was trying to make, that yes it does serve the purpose of eligibilty.

As far as accepting an alternative solution and bickering, can I assume that even though you quoted me, you weren't referring to me? Since the post I made that you quoted states exactly that I agree with you: "I completely understand that a better system could have been made and the naming is misleading as well. I also agree that it muddies the water for the ranking system and a separate "eligibility tag" of some sort would have been better."
Okay fair enough. I'm just noticing it's been going on for several pages and people are making points to justify S which are also true if they were separated and are therefore not justifying S over the solutions. It sounded like yours was that but I guess McLaren did say it was completely pointless.

Nobody has said that I am aware of that it would not be enough IF that is what PD had implemented to ID the Star players but it is not so it really is currently not of any consequence for this round anyway.

For this reason I as well do not understand the bickering, we have what we have, understand its meaning for the rating and continue on to the new round.
That's what I'm saying - no one seems to disagree with the solutions but there's been pages of debate since with people just making points no one has said or arguments that also work with the solutions.
 
Well you see (and this is a 0.1% problem but still) Driver Rating doesn't work for ranking the very best players, because all of the very best players can all earn or re-earn 75k DR absolutely whenever they want, this is a problem because entry for the Manufacturers Round 4 T24 is DR based, what happens when more than 24 75k players enter a Top 24 race?

A separate ranking system for FIA has been discussed between top players for a while now because DR doesn't really work for ranking the very best, its too volatile and the cap is stupid.

Hell I'm just short of 75k right now, but I'm not even worried about re-earning it because dailies are such a get out of jail free card.

So thats why I offered Solution 3, I'd like to see a true top player ranking system. I get why this isn't important for basically everyone else though.
== 'Top 24 Superstars' Race Details ==
・Round 4
Racing Time: 18:10 PDT
Selection Criteria: Acquired points
Bonus Points: 2x earned points, 0 base points
Entry Restriction: Up to 2 players from each Manufacturer.


My understanding of the above is that the top 24 is not based on DR. Maybe I'm wrong, but I read "Acquired points" as the acquired points in the previous championship races in season 2.
 
== 'Top 24 Superstars' Race Details ==
・Round 4
Racing Time: 18:10 PDT
Selection Criteria: Acquired points
Bonus Points: 2x earned points, 0 base points
Entry Restriction: Up to 2 players from each Manufacturer.


My understanding of the above is that the top 24 is not based on DR. Maybe I'm wrong, but I read "Acquired points" as the acquired points in the previous championship races in season 2.

It was said earlier on their website that it would be DR based. It was probably a mistake that is now corrected.
 
== 'Top 24 Superstars' Race Details ==
・Round 4
Racing Time: 18:10 PDT
Selection Criteria: Acquired points
Bonus Points: 2x earned points, 0 base points
Entry Restriction: Up to 2 players from each Manufacturer.


My understanding of the above is that the top 24 is not based on DR. Maybe I'm wrong, but I read "Acquired points" as the acquired points in the previous championship races in season 2.

Oh my god they actually edited that :lol: Other people can vouch for me when I say 100% it was DR back on the day they announced it
 
So thats why I offered Solution 3, I'd like to see a true top player ranking system. I get why this isn't important for basically everyone else though.

I see what you say but even as you say the ranking system that is already in place does not work so why would a new system?

One thing as far as championship competition could be concerned is first off make where entering every race in a season was mandatory instead of taking the best couple of finishes.

Next if multiple players were tied using the FIA points and if a tiebreaker was still needed do it like real world number of wins in the season next, then number of 2nd place finishes, then 3rds and so on until the tie was broken.

Entry would then be based off of the season and easy to follow and understand why one driver had a higher slotting than another driver.

Also in my opinion racing all the races would show more adaptable skill as a player could not just pick his strongest tracks and avoid tracks he may be weaker at.
 
Slightly different topic.
The link says the Nations Superstars race is at 19:00 and the manufacturers race is at 18:10.
Assuming the race format is the same as the test seasons, it won't be possible to compete in both superstar race

Edit: May be a typo on the US site. EU and Asia races still have the 70 minute gap
https://www.gran-turismo.com/gb/gtsport/news/00_1819653.html
 
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Slightly different topic.
The link says the Nations Superstars race is at 19:00 and the manufacturers race is at 18:10.
Assuming the race format is the same as the test seasons, it won't be possible to compete in both superstar race

Wow, I think thats intentional... Do they want people to go all in on either Manufacturers or Nations and not both? Because this could mix up absolutely everything we've been planning around :eek:

If they want Nations and Manufacturers to have separate finalists... some people have decisions to make...
 
Slightly different topic.
The link says the Nations Superstars race is at 19:00 and the manufacturers race is at 18:10.
Assuming the race format is the same as the test seasons, it won't be possible to compete in both superstar race
Alien issues.... Doesn't affect me one bit.

Still doesn't matter though, season 2 is meaningless other than have to get Star Player rating and anyone in the Top 24 races will definitely get that.

Better read the Season 3 announcement very carefully. And then read the Season 3 announcement very carefully (because it might be different on the second reading!)


edit: @Cuber Tom noted above that time change only seen on the US site's version, so could just be typo.
 
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Lost the victory in the last manufacturer race by 0,1 seconds.



Two wins for Mitsubishi at Interlagos :cheers:

Hope interlagos gr3 makes an appearance in the final season
Mitsubishi racers here:cheers:

PS Suffered a lot on the long straight in the Tokyo race in Season 1.:(
0B868DCD-1C0B-4E76-B124-9DE325E8537C.jpeg
 
One thing as far as championship competition could be concerned is first off make where entering every race in a season was mandatory instead of taking the best couple of finishes.

That just won't work sir, and for a number of reasons.
First of all it would be unfair to those drivers with busy schedules who might not be able to make time for every race.
Second is the fact that there are way too many uncontrollable variables in this series that can punish or reward drivers who don't deserve it. (I. E. Disconnects, dirty driving, and of course penalties. )
And lastly, it's just too darn stressful to worry about every single result lol
 
My statistical study (available here) suggest that geography might play an important factor.

If you are from any of these main regions (divisions of england) and you are relatively fast you are very likely to have an S due to the low number of players. This study extrapolate the proportion of the population to the proportion of the regional players in game.

For instance, these regional divisions will easily have S drivers with low DR (unless an A player or an alien lives in there)

City of London 0 players

Rutland 3 players

Isle of Wight 10 players

Herefordshire 14

Northumberland 23

Bristol 33

Shropshire 36

Cumbria 36

Cornwall 40

Warwickshire 41

Worcestershire 42


What region are you from @Tidgney ? What area of england are you guys from? Please help me to contrast my numbers.
 
That just won't work sir, and for a number of reasons.
First of all it would be unfair to those drivers with busy schedules who might not be able to make time for every race.

Okay I will be a dumbass and bite because I know this subject can be another one that has the potential to get interesting and maybe not in a good way.

First question is how legitimate do the top drivers who are serious about this competition want to be in the accuracy of the driver that is crowned champion or even that the drivers who qualify as they advance through the rounds for the actual finals are actually the best drivers that actually deserve a spot on that finals stage?

If it is not that important do not read any further it will be useless to do so.

First there are multiple options that could be implemented to help with the schedule for the racers, use one of the ideas, use them all or come up with better ones,

Increase the number of Nations race slots to 5 starting at 10am, 1pm, 4pm, 7pm 10pm with the alternate Manufacturer series running 70 minutes later in the slot as currently done. This would open up a lot of hours and alternate time slots with 3 hour lead times between the options available that honestly many have already been begging PD for making scheduling much easier for many racers.

Increase the dates the competition is active and adjust to fewer race days each calendar week if needed and alter the days the races take place on different weeks.

It is more up to the competitor to adjust to the schedule of the competition than it is for the competition to adjust for each individual competitor.

A racer that takes this competition seriously enough will adapt their schedule to the race schedule and for many the increase in the available time slots over a wider range of hours will even be easier than what they are adapting to currently.


Second is the fact that there are way too many uncontrollable variables in this series that can punish or reward drivers who don't deserve it. (I. E. Disconnects, dirty driving, and of course penalties. )

This is supposed to be E-SPORT racing and real world racing is also is full of uncontrolled variables, weather, Cars that cut off or will not start on the race grid prior to the race start, cut tires, blown transmissions, involved in a competitors wreck which was unavoidable, spinning out and ending up in the kitty litter and yes even taken out by another racers questionable move which may damage your vehicle to a point your race is done, Course cutting penalties also are part of the real world racing as well. Saw several penalties doled out for that in the IMSA race at the Glen last weekend.

Last weekend I was watching several different competitions and a couple of times I got to laughing because some of the on track driving and incidents was reminding me of what you see in gts dailies!

One of the races was between a couple of BMW's and a couple of Benzes from over the big water in Europe or somewhere and the other race was the IMSA 6 hours of the Glen.

So this is supposed to be an e-sport competition are the competitors supposed to be shielded from the variables or like the real world deal with them as they come up. Sometimes Lady luck sucks and sometimes she may hand you a gift, just a part of the racing game whether real world or yes even virtual.

And lastly, it's just too darn stressful to worry about every single result lol

Again is this a legitimate actual racing competition where the best racers skills are supposed to shine and their adaptability could be a deciding factor in the races finish?

And just as in the real world an unlucky race or bad finish can affect your chances of being the series champion?

Or is this supposed to be something that awards participation trophies and is not really a competition at all because the racers results are very likely to be from different circuits and maybe with different cars and you get to pick only your best tracks to count and not care as long as half the tracks you like okay?

So now we have 1 racer that has top finishes on track A and C. Tracks B and D he does not count because he did not do so good or did not race.
Racer 2 has top finishes on track B and D. Tracks A and C he does not count because he did not do so good or did not race.

Out of these two racers one will advance to the next round or maybe qualify for the Star race which awards the extra bonus points and the other will not.

How can you legitimately declare one racer as the winner or to be better or even ahead of the other racer when the results are not even from the same circuits and may not even be comparing results using the same vehicles?

The only way that you have a true winner or even have drivers actually be judged by their on track performance to determine the legitimate racer to advance is to have such racers results come from the exact same competitions. Any other way you have no direct reference that one driver has outperformed another driver if the circumstances and even the tracks raced that yielded the results used to compare are different.

Will you please explain how that can be classed as a legitimate competition with a legitimate winner that one person is declared a champion over another when the results are calculated from differently sourced with no common shared data or results to compare?

If I win a race at Road Atlanta driving a GR4 Corvette and You win a a race at Watkins Glenn driving a GR3 Porsche how do we determine a winner between the the two of us or which one of us is better using those results?
 
My statistical study (available here) suggest that geography might play an important factor.

If you are from any of these main regions (divisions of england) and you are relatively fast you are very likely to have an S due to the low number of players. This study extrapolate the proportion of the population to the proportion of the regional players in game.

For instance, these regional divisions will easily have S drivers with low DR (unless an A player or an alien lives in there)

City of London 0 players

Rutland 3 players

Isle of Wight 10 players

Herefordshire 14

Northumberland 23

Bristol 33

Shropshire 36

Cumbria 36

Cornwall 40

Warwickshire 41

Worcestershire 42


What region are you from @Tidgney ? What area of england are you guys from? Please help me to contrast my numbers.
Sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding, but the S rating (as in Star Player) is top 200 in Nations ranking or top 10 per Country and top 200 in Manufacturer ranking or top 10 per manufacturer. I don't think regional divisions have anything to do with it.
 
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Lost the victory in the last manufacturer race by 0,1 seconds.

Bonus points for all that battling for the lead and not one moment of contact. 👍

...and I take all those points back for beating my Euro Jaguar driver counterpart. :lol:
 
Not sure i have enough cookie power for that challenge but I'll give it my best shot :)

Although... I did just get my optimal at Nurburgring down to 1:54.248 in the Lancer so there's some hope!

My new secret is to drink turkish black tea before hehe. So give it a shot as well m8 ^^

That's great! My optimum with the wrx here is a 53.9 :banghead:

But i also have no idea why @Zkippe can extend the track like on his lap. When i try to do this i always end up with getting a penalty in the end. As for Perpi's version. I tried it out as well but for some reason the game always lets me go away without getting a penalty
 
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Sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding, but the S rating (as in Star Player) is top 200 in Nations ranking or top 10 per Country and top 200 in Manufacturer ranking or top 10 per manufacturer. I don't think regional divisions have anything to do with it.
Sorry, I understood wrong. You are right, regions have nothing to do with this.

Anyways, have a look to the spreadsheet and if you can help me to contrast the data a bit that would be amazing. I'm interested in your main region over all.

 
My new secret is to drink turkish black tea before hehe. So give it a shot as well m8 ^^

That's great! My optimum with the wrx here is a 53.9 :banghead:

But i also have no idea why @Zkippe can extend the track like on his lap. When i try to do this i always end up with getting a penalty in the end. As for Perpi's version. I tried it out as well but for some reason the game always lets me go away without getting a penalty
Which corners do you mean exactly? I think they have made the exit of turn 4 bit more strict and you can't go as wide as you could before, but I think otherwise it's the same and you can go wide/cut a lot in certain places. Exit of turn 2 and the chicane have always been super lenient. Maybe the games gives or doesn't give you penalties based on the car you are driving? :D
 
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