FIA Race Discussion [Archive]

[ColinNZ]

Could we please wait for the first couple of races to play out in season 2, before we declare the system broken.

 

[DriftMethod]

If you compete with a DR S driver, who has a low underlying DR value, are the DR points +/- calculated against their underlying value still?

Will a low DR driver who has now DR S be automatically placed in the top daily race/non T24S FIA race splits?

I'm guessing that DR S will only be used for eligibility. DR points calculations will probably remain the same. Non-24 races also probably based on underlying DR values. No proof, but seems like additional changes would be extra work that PD wouldn't want to waste time doing for a temporary change to DR S.

 

[KONTRAone]

Not so sure I like the fact that Top 24 entries will be based on points as it risks excluding a great driver having a series of incidents in the races he/she enters. Even worse: Disconnects giving them 0 points. Top 24 races should be at the end of a season after all rounds are done and the best results are retained.

I was a bit concerned about this myself and I can't see the logic in PD's reasoning... Why is the first superstar race based on all 3 rounds prior? It's not uncommon for a driver to get disconnected or taken out during the race by no fault of their own, so why would the rules set up a victim for punishment? And what is the point of a 4of8 competition if you're essentially making the first 4 rounds mandatory?

I'm also hoping that this new S rating won't replace the DR matchmaking system already in place, because that would not pan out well... I'd like to think that they know better but they haven't exactly been nailing all the calls so far sooo *fingers crossed*

 

[DriftMethod]

I was a bit concerned about this myself and I can't see the logic in PD's reasoning... Why is the first superstar race based on all 3 rounds prior? It's not uncommon for a driver to get disconnected or taken out during the race by no fault of their own, so why would the rules set up a victim for punishment? And what is the point of a 4of8 competition if you're essentially making the first 4 rounds mandatory?

I'm also hoping that this new S rating won't replace the DR matchmaking system already in place, because that would not pan out well... I'd like to that that they know better but they haven't exactly been nailing all the calls so far sooo *fingers crossed*

Season 2 is not really important, since everyone starts at zero for the final season. The only big requirement is getting the Star Player rating for season 3. Top 24 races for season 3 are rounds 6, 8, and 10, so that will be interesting to see the number of races considered for entrance.

 

[UnkaD]

I have also noticed this. Despite my torrid performance for Subaru in the Americas, driving well below my "normal" level, I was still 17th for the marque and only a few hundred points from top 10, and hence, the S. I am also #1 in my state (Nevada), but apparently the only one? I find it hard to believe I am the only person with Nevada residence competing in this...

It's the same for me. I forgot my rank in California, but I'm no.1 in the L.A. region and I can't help but wonder where everyone is. I knew racing wasn't really big around here but this just blows my mind. I'm ranked in the top 10 for Honda as well. Finishing 70th in the US and 123rd in the Americas, I don't feel too bad accepting my S badge. I'm nowhere near alien fast, but on my best days I'd like to think I'm at least somewhat formidable. This is really the only game that I'm good at(I suck at everything else, like really badly. You don't understand. Every shooter becomes "Who can kill Dee the most"), so let me have this one.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

It sounds elitist because it is but slow drivers with an S don't belong there. Give them a superstar race dedicated to slower, lower ranked players who made the 'underpants on the outside' cut.

 

[Tidgney]

Not sure I’d call @Tidgney elitelist! He would happily help anyone out with there driving if they have questions, his commitment to do the BOP tests for us all shows that!

Thanks Venster, although he's entitled to his opinion I just wasn't happy about the sudden capital letters and insinuations he suggested I was making. I'd like to think I wasn't elitist and that I disagreed with something that was implemented for the FIA Season. As you say I try and help everyone where I can and I've been doing that since 2010/11 so I have no idea to be honest (I need the shrug emoji). But I'll continue to do what I do anyway as long as it helps people .

 

[Famine]

It sounds elitist because it is but slow drivers with an S don't belong there. Give them a superstar race dedicated to slower, lower ranked players who made the 'underpants on the outside' cut.

On the flip side, it's nice that the guy or girl who's the best in Iceland or Slovenia should be recognised as such with a special label, rather than just giving it to the same fifty players from UK, Spain, Germany, France and Italy, like every other GT online event (and GT Academy).

 

[Mistah_MCA]

It's the same for me. I forgot my rank in California, but I'm no.1 in the L.A. region and I can't help but wonder where everyone is. I knew racing wasn't really big around here but this just blows my mind. I'm ranked in the top 10 for Honda as well. Finishing 70th in the US and 123rd in the Americas, I don't feel too bad accepting my S badge. I'm nowhere near alien fast, but on my best days I'd like to think I'm at least somewhat formidable. This is really the only game that I'm good at(I suck at everything else, like really badly. You don't understand. Every shooter becomes "Who can kill Dee the most"), so let me have this one.

I have a similar situation. 1st in Santa Clara County; does no one else but me play the game in my county?
I only did the Manufacturer Series, and when I was looking through the results, it looked like last place for Dodge was in the 220's (Americas).
Honestly, I wish there were more local people doing this; it'd make the competition a lot more fun.

But yes yes, let's hold the S rank close to us.
I'm OK in overwatch, but I'm super good at Lucioball... So there's that... I guess...

 

[Alpha Cipher]

On the flip side, it's nice that the guy or girl who's the best in Iceland or Slovenia should be recognised as such with a special label, rather than just giving it to the same fifty players from UK, Spain, Germany, France and Italy, like every other GT online event (and GT Academy).

Yeah, I guess it is.

 

[Crazy Taylor]

On the flip side, it's nice that the guy or girl who's the best in Iceland or Slovenia should be recognised as such with a special label, rather than just giving it to the same fifty players from UK, Spain, Germany, France and Italy, like every other GT online event (and GT Academy).

That I understand but maybe there is a different way it can be interpreted, such as an icon for being Iceland fastest racer.

 

[oamoShotya]

I cant really understand how i got the star player thingy with 21000 points and 900th something in europe region on Nations cup. I'm 5th in my country but there is only like 60 people who participated. Does that have something to do with it ?

I'm really confused.... I'm not nearly good enough with my Dualshock, Traction control 2 and automatic gearing to even think about competing

 

[Crazy Taylor]

I cant really understand how i got the star player thingy with 21000 points and 900th something in europe region on Nations cup. I'm 5th in my country but there is only like 60 people who participated. Does that have something to do with it ?

I'm really confused.... I'm not nearly good enough with my Dualshock, Traction control 2 and automatic gearing to even think about competing

My way of driving is the same as yours but thats where it stops. Being British there are lots of competitors I finished way down the order( in the thousands I think) and finished 29th in my region on nations (Merseyside).

 

[_ApexPredator]

This thread got out of hand
I'd like to very quickly add my 2 cents as I somehow got the registration form and of course filled it out, but I know I'm nowhere near fast enough (in cars) to hold that SS badge, and I have no issues admitting that.
So anyone claiming that the truly fast raising concerns about this are displaying "elitism" etc don't know what they're talking about. I wouldn't have expected in a million years to be classed as a "Star Player", because I know that I'm not one.

I didn't have a good season in either championship, by my own standards; the true Star Players could outscore my season in either championship in just 1 round.
IMO the 75k DR cap should have been lifted at the start of the season, and anyone who is able to sustain >75k is a Star Player.

As said by others, I don't think anyone is complaining about specific cases, or "Player x has SS, what a joke he's only DR C" etc, it's more a recognition that clearly something is wrong with the qualification requisites if people who know they're seconds off the pace are being awarded the status.

At the same time, the true star players know who they are already, so aside from the live event eligibility concerns (I'm not going to be taking anyone's spot any time soon!), I'm not sure there's too much to worry about

 

[QTheRacer_31]

I think the discussion would’ve been much different if they just added “Top 24 Eligible” on their profiles instead of DR S because of what it meant in the past. It would’ve removed the ranking confusion while clearly letting those who are eligible know they could get in the Top 24 Finals.

(Feels like in university haha Everyone gets the same diploma whether they got the best GPA or barely met the requirements but you know who’s going to get the scholarships and the best jobs. I digress.)

 

[VFOURMAX1]

On the flip side, it's nice that the guy or girl who's the best in Iceland or Slovenia should be recognised as such with a special label, rather than just giving it to the same fifty players from UK, Spain, Germany, France and Italy, like every other GT online event (and GT Academy).

This is exactly my sentiments and I agree with you Famine totally!
It is also why that earlier comments made within this thread ruffled my feathers so much and evoked the responses from me that it did.

I have no dog in this fight to speak of as I am not competing as I do not feel I am skilled enough and I do not want to risk affecting another more skilled players results by me being on the track in an important point race for such individual.

But as a lower than A+/A ranked player I do respect and applaud those that are not racers normally at the pointed end of the spear that have competed and within the rules depicted and distributed by PD and apparently approved by the FIA have within those rules achieved results within the competition that have given them a reward and recognition within the game for such accomplishment.

Although a player was not called out and his accomplishment belittled in this thread by his PSN ID a player was called out and his accomplishment belittled by the amount of his DR ranking points and the insinuation was very clearly put forth that as such a low ranked player he should not be able to be rewarded that the reward should only go to the highest ranked competitors.

So yes, an individual competitor was not called out by name but even worse ALL competitors of lower DR ranks that did receive an "S" achievement reward for their results in the competition had their rewards called out as well as they are also covered by the blanket statement that was made on as public forum read by racers all across the ranks stating that low level racers being given the reward made the reward less of an accomplishment or cheapened the reward greatly.

I do not care who you are or what level your ranking may be such statements made by a very top level player, stating only top level players should be eligible to receive an award from an in game Gran Turismo Sport competition shows or displays an elitist attitude as only the very top ranked players should be or are worthy of recognition within the game.

Fortunately PD and the FIA do not exhibit that same elitist attitude and the rules of the competition are structured to a point that does allow the possibility of any ranking level to compete and being an A+/A ranked player are not a requisite to the possibility of obtaining a result that allows a competitor to receive a reward and recognition for their accomplishment within the scope and official rules of the contest.

Yes that type of comment and attitude inflamed me yesterday and it still does today. This game belongs to all the players of all ranks and skill levels and this competition does not just belong to the fastest of the fast and elite racers but again to all the players of the game.

I am not a person that takes or defends an issue based on popularity of my position or what the popularity may be of other people involved in the conversation. I look at the issues points and will stand by the position I think is the best or perhaps even right within the debate.

Sometimes I am on a popular side and sometimes I am not but regardless I do not apologize for having my own opinion and standing and defending what I think may be right.

This issue I am of the opinion that ALL players deserve any rewards that they have earned within this competition period and the level of their DR ranking does not reduce what they have accomplished out of 1000's of competitors that have entered and competed in the contest.

So I applaud and commend all of the competitors of this competition that in their respective categories have obtained the the needed level to be rewarded the recognition of the in game "S" rating regardless of the competitors DR ranking level.
You met the requirements and you deserve your earned award so please enjoy the fruits and success of your labors!

 

[Michi_Jay]

On the flip side, it's nice that the guy or girl who's the best in Iceland or Slovenia should be recognised as such with a special label, rather than just giving it to the same fifty players from UK, Spain, Germany, France and Italy, like every other GT online event (and GT Academy).

I don't know, that makes no sense to me. It is much harder for a player from UK, Spain, Germany, France and Italy to be recognized as the competition is much higher there. Why should a guy or girl from a small country have it easier to be recognized? Everyone should have the same chance.

 

[_ApexPredator]

This issue I am of the opinion that ALL players deserve any rewards that they have earned within this competition period and the level of their DR ranking does not reduce what they have accomplished out of 1000's of competitors that have entered and competed in the contest.

Except it does though.
If you're DR 10,000, you're not racing against the same calibre of driver as the people who are at DR 50-65,000. So a win for that driver is not the same as a win for the driver at DR 60k. It's fairly simple.
I understand your point, their DR score should not diminish their achievements - I agree.
The point that I think most people are making here, and the one you seem to keep missing, is that you cannot possibly be one of the game's top players, unless you're consistently racing against, the game's top players.

and the insinuation was very clearly put forth that as such a low ranked player he should not be able to be rewarded that the reward should only go to the highest ranked competitors.

Because if not, what is the point in having it?
Remember, if you're low rank but you're fast enough to compete with the high ranked players - no one has a problem with that. If you're low rank and you're 2-5 seconds a lap slower, surely you can see there's a slight problem with a classification system that claims that driver is amongst the very best?

only top level players should be eligible to receive an award from an in game Gran Turismo Sport competition shows or displays an elitist attitude as only the very top ranked players should be or are worthy of recognition within the game.

I don't agree with you.
Again, it isn't about the rank of player, it's purely about the level of driving. All that's being said here, is that only the fastest, cleanest, fittest drivers in the game should be represented by that SS badge, and atm it seems that that may not be the case which some fear could diminish the achievement.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Is it just me, or would this argument never start if PD didn't give S to the lower ranked people? Or would it? I dunno, I just can't see an argument happening over this if the former has been done. I'm not taking sides or anything, and this is not a suggestion either. It's just a "what if"

 

[Famine]

I don't know, that makes no sense to me. It is much harder for a player from UK, Spain, Germany, France and Italy to be recognized as the competition is much higher there. Why should a guy or girl from a small country have it easier to be recognized? Everyone should have the same chance.

They're not being recognised as global elite. They're being recognised as (among) the best in their nation. It wouldn't be much of a nations' cup if it was just 200 people from the same five nations each time.

Take the FIFA World Cup. There's spots for each confederation - it's certainly according to the strength of the confederation, but none is excluded (even OFC, the weakest confederation on paper, has 0.5 spots). That's what makes it a World Cup - there's 32 nations from around the world. If it were just the 32 strongest nations, it'd be 20 European teams, seven South American teams, USA, Costa Rica, Mexico, Tunisia and Senegal. That's a bit world-y, but not very much, considering the total lack of Asian teams.

The quarter-finals look pretty European/South American, but that's after two rounds of competition and 22 teams (of 24) have been eliminated.

 

[VeeDoubleU]

Take the FIFA World Cup. There's spots for each confederation - it's certainly according to the strength of the confederation, but none is excluded (even OFC, the weakest confederation on paper, has 0.5 spots). That's what makes it a World Cup - there's 32 nations from around the world. If it were just the 32 strongest nations, it'd be 20 European teams, seven South American teams, USA, Costa Rica, Mexico, Tunisia and Senegal. That's a bit world-y, but not very much, considering the total lack of Asian teams.

No one is saying that no one from less populated countries should be in. People are saying that the amount of Star Players should vary from nation to nation, in the exact same way as your FIFA example. Where, because generally there are more good teams from Europe as opposed to Oceania, they gain more slots.

If the World Cup was the same as the Star Player system, you'd have the best 10 European teams, but also the best 10 teams in Oceania, and the best 10 in the Americas region etc, which is ludicrous.

 

[Famine]

No one is saying that no one from less populated countries should be in. People are saying that the amount of Star Players should vary from nation to nation, in the exact same way as your FIFA example. Where, because generally there are more good teams from Europe as opposed to Oceania, they gain more slots.

But the Nations Cup is within nations to start with. You need to know who your own competition is, so it's entirely sensible to mark the best "N" players within the nation at this point.

Later on, in the final events, it gets whittled down in exactly that manner - top 30 drivers in each region, limited to 3 or 10 per nation:

Selection Process
So, outside of being quick, how do you make it to the live events?

For the Nations Cup, the top 30 players after the Online Final Season will qualify. The catch is that each country/region has a limit on number of drivers. That means that if you’re 26th overall in the EMEA region, but 6th in the UK, you won’t make it (unless someone ahead of you drops out).

The player count limitations for the Nations Cup:

• EMEA Regions:
  Up to 3 players from each Country/Locale
• Asia/Oceania Region:
  Up to 10 players from each Country/Locale
• North/Central/South Americas Region:
  Up to 10 players from each Country/Locale

https://www.gtplanet.net/the-fia-gran-turismo-championship-begins-june-20/

 

[TheGeologist]

Registered for the SS thingy for a laugh and proceeded to do one race just to see what its all about. Name was still PSN name, not the display name I chose - this is what I was curious about. The only difference seems to be that your DR is S now. A few other players had SS ranks with no way to tell whether they were A+/A/B etc.

I thought you had to be A+ to be able to become S?

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I don't agree with you.
Again, it ins't about the rank of player, it's purely about the level of driving. All that's being said here, is that only the fastest, cleanest, fittest drivers in the game should be represented by that SS badge, and atm it seems that that may not be the case which some fear could diminish the achievement.

Actually the overall importance of the "S" ranking achievement within this competition is what is being overstated.

At this stage of the competition we have not reduced the the remaining standing players down to the those that will advance to the final rounds.

At this point the achievement is in relation to the "only the fastest, cleanest, fittest drivers WITHIN a competitors region or country possibly that may be driving for a particular car manufacturer of the drivers region or country of residence.

As the competition proceeds through the qualifying seasons many of those whom may have made the first round cut will not qualify further.

But you know there is a chance that a lower level driver from a small country that has few GTS players could still qualify and win a trip to compete in the finals and still be a lower ranked player worldwide but he is still one of "the fastest, cleanest, fittest drivers from his country for his manufacturer.

About the only way I know that a real world scenario would be the same would be the Olympic games.

All countries send their best and most talented Olympic athletes to compete within the games competitions.

Some small obscure countries the athletes they send are not of the performance levels as many other countries and those athletes may not even be of a skill level in their sport to be considered to even try out for some other countries Olympic team as a result.

There are many much more talented athletes from more popular countries that are watching the games from home because their country had filled the slots allotted in the competition to them but are the medals won by the attending Olympic athletes cheapened as a result?

After all they have at this point in the competition all won the recognition of being chosen from the respective countries as Olympic Athletes.

All that designation grants them is the ability to compete further in the competition. They are not at this point the best of the best or gold medal competition winners, but they are Olympic athletes and should be recognized as such.

This GTS competition in many ways reflect this scenario and the only people that seem to be having problems that want to wear this initial S reward the same as if it was the gold medal at the close of the games competition.

We are only in the beginning not the end at the medal awards ceremony of the games or contest.

 

[Matty28]

@Famine

There is driver ranking

There is qualifying for the next stage of a championship

In the world cup, Italy is ranked 19th, Netherlands is ranked 17th, Saudi Arabia is ranked 67th. They qualified for the championship but they are not ranked higher than the teams that didn't. That is how a ranking system works. Not by saying the 67th best team is the best team. DR is based on speed and results and is entirely independent from your country and manufacturer.

Everything you have said is compatible with this while also maintaining a functioning ranking system.

I am not in disagreement with the way it's set up, but it probably would have been better and less confusing to have a badge along with your normal DR. Like a blue wreath around the letter for a Nations star and a red wreath around the letter for a Manufacturer star, and maybe a gold wreath for those who are stars in both. That way we could more easily identify who is a star because they are genuinely fast and others who are stars because they best represent their brand, however easy that might be due to low player count.

 

[ASH32]

I thought you had to be A+ to be able to become S?

No, you can be whatever, so if you are in a nation with few players or you've chosen a rubbish manufacturer you get a much better chance, as the top ten or something from each get the nice S.

Nations is per nation and less of an issue but Manufacturers is the top guys from each Manufacturer from your region and some of these are very low rated drivers and they are now or now eligible to become S sorely because no good drivers have picked these rubbish cars. Hence the complaining.

This all ties in to the max number of players per Nation/Manufacturer limits PD put in though (which are too low in my view in the EMEA region) which means they've got to give enough drivers S to make sure the top 24 races has more Nations or Manufacturers represented.

Also if they were no useless cars they be top drivers in them all and no D driver would ever get S.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

In the world cup, Italy is ranked 19th, Netherlands is ranked 17th, Saudi Arabia is ranked 67th. They qualified for the championship but they are not ranked higher than the teams that didn't. That is how a ranking system works. Not by saying the 67th best team is the best team. DR is based on speed and results not on if you're the best from a country with no one playing.

This why using the Olympics is a more proper example as there is no ranking system that decides who is able to compete or who may be competing against who in any one given competition that has limited slots for the single event such as track which is actually racing!

 

[Famine]

@Famine

There is driver ranking

There is qualifying for the next stage of a championship

In the world cup, Italy is ranked 19th, Netherlands is ranked 17th, Saudi Arabia is ranked 67th. They qualified for the championship but they are not ranked higher than the teams that didn't. That is how a ranking system works. Not by saying the 67th best team is the best team. DR is based on speed and results not on if you're the best from a country with no one playing. If it was, matchmaking would not work properly.

Everything you have said is compatible with this while also maintaining a functioning ranking system.

The letter is just a symbol either way. The player's DR score remains what it is - just as it does when your DR score is far higher than your DR letter (when your SR letter limits your DR letter). Matchmaking is primarily on SR in any case (and on score, not letter), so whether you're DR S, DR A+ or DR B doesn't really change that.

The DR A+ symbol means you're fast (over a great many races) compared to the global population. The DR S symbol means that you are fast compared to others who drive the same car or are from the same nation. The DR E symbol means you're new.


I'm not really interested in the rights or wrongs of it. That's just how it is, and it doesn't make me uncomfortable in any way.

 

[Ofuscor]

I thought you had to be A+ to be able to become S?

No, you don't I've seen B/S turn S/S too.

On a side note I have a problem too with my registration adress. I am Argentinian and live in Buenos Aires. Buenos Aires is the province so I have to specify where. Here comes te good part. They've missed Capital Federal which is the most populated part of the country, where the Congress is, Presidential residence is, all the surroundings areas appear . Basically I had to lie. Congrats on effing it up big time PD.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

If you're DR 10,000, you're not racing against the same calibre of driver as the people who are at DR 50-65,000. So a win for that driver is not the same as a win for the driver at DR 60k. It's fairly simple.
I understand your point, their DR score should not diminish their achievements - I agree.

Depends on how you want to define it.

A driver that has a ranking of 65,000 that races against another driver ranked at 65,000 is racing drivers possessing the same skills so a win can be a hard fought affair.

A driver with a ranking of 10,000 racing against another driver ranked at 10,000 is also racing drivers possessing the same skill levels so a win can be a hard fought affair.

Now the above two scenarios the driver with the 10,000 DR level at his skill level has not had any easier objective of securing a win than the racer at the 65,000 Dr level as both drivers were competing against EQUAL competition in relation to their skills.

Now if we were talking the 65,000 level driver beating the 10,000 level driver then the win would not be the same.

But using the same track as an example the 10,000 level driver turning a 1.22 lap time which would be the best he may do at his skill level would be no easier for him to accomplish that the 65,000 level driver would find it no more difficult at his skill level to turn a lap time of 1.19 on the same circuit.

So again making a statement that basically says that because of being a lower ranked driver that possesses skills in line with that ranking that that driver does not try or compete to the very best of his ability and just because he is not a top ranked driver that a win against equal competition is not the same is BS.

To the lower ranked guys a win or top finishing position against equal competition is just as rewarding and hard fought to them as it is to the top ranked guys.